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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVoices in the Wilderness
For those who want America to one day be the great nation it once was, it can hardly do this if it doesnt take the first step of bringing those responsible for the war in Iraq to justice.
-- Vincent Bugliosi; The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder; Vanguard Press; 2008; page 13.
Between logging on to DU:GD numerous times throughout the night, I re-read Bugliosis book on prosecuting Bush et al for murder. The outrage I saw here regarding torture was mirrored in that powerful book. The same passion for justice is found in each. Perhaps the only surprising thing is that Bugliosi frequently uses even stronger language than the average D.U.er to describe his utter contempt for George W. Bush.
This morning, after again reading through DU:GD, and the numerous OP/threads regarding the Cheney-Bush administration and torture, I was struck by the number of posts that took a defeated position -- yes, the torture policy and its execution were criminal, but there will be no legal consequences. I understand that thinking -- yes, I do -- and cannot argue that it is irrational or not logical. Yet, I believe that we must fight to hold Bush, Cheney, etc accountable, not because we may or may not win, but because they are war criminals who are responsible for committing horrible crimes against humanity.
Vincent Bugliosi, like every good prosecutor, knows that it is not possible to arrest, try, and convict certain criminals for the top crime (or crimes) they have committed. We saw this with Scooter Libby. But it is possible to bring charges relating to that top crime, and get a conviction. So lets put on our DU prosecutorial hats for a few minutes, and ponder our options.
We know that President Obama and his administration are not going to pursue any criminal charges against Cheney and Bush. Although the Senate report proves beyond a reasonable doubt they committed war crimes, and Bugliosis book proves beyond any doubt that they committed murder, the administration doesnt want to risk having the republicans in DC obstructing President Obama in his final two years. We certainly dont want that, now, do we?
However, as Bugliosi documents in his book, any District Attorney in the United States can file charges of murder against Bush et al. As long as some man or woman from the DAs region was killed in Iraq, they can file those charges. And one of the damned shames about that war is that this country has forgotten those who died in Iraq -- including our soldiers, and thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians.
It would seem less likely that, DU on its own, has the juice to convince a DA (even one with a strong conscience) to pursue this. Yet we do have options. Earlier in the year, for example, Bill Maher attempted to use his HBO show Real Time to flip a congressional district. While this effort was not successful in terms of flipping the district, it was an important exercise of political muscle. It would be foolish to abandon that option, simply because it was 100% successful. Indeed, the only thing that is 100% for sure is that if we dont try, we definitely wont accomplish anything. And that is exactly what the real enemies of democracy are hoping for, and counting on: that we will not even try.
Now, Im not saying that Bill Maher is the perfect vehicle for trying to find a DA with conscience. Nor am I suggesting that he is not. Rather, Im using his recent effort as a model that we could use. If the DU community were to put our minds together, and engage in a letter-writing campaign to someone like Maher, we might get a response. Maybe hed have Mr. Bugliosi on as a guest to discuss the Senate report, and the possible prosecution of Cheney and Bush, etc.
The most important question at this time is: What do you think?
Im just one person, and I think its definitely worth making an attempt. Being an American citizen should mean something. We have rights and responsibilities. And I think we are responsible for saying that these crimes were not committed in our names, and that we arent okay with overlooking them. That the criminals must be held responsible, and have consequences for crimes such as torture and murder.
I also know that when the DU community lobbies individuals in the legal system, it gets noticed.
Thank you for your consideration.
H2O Man
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,571 posts)I can only second it. You have stated it so much more compellingly than I ever could.
I would be happy to join you in a letter writing campaign.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)I'm thinking of possible avenues for approaching this.
Hotler
(11,412 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)that the others on the DU wing don't believe that I, Randle Patrick "Mac" McMurphey, can actually lift this fucking stone sink off the floor, and toss it through that window.
panader0
(25,816 posts)the one who originated the idea. Hence, his classic line:
"At least I tried."
kentuck
(111,076 posts)I don't know for sure?
I feel sad and despondent and angry, all rolled into one.
It saddens me that so many of my fellow Americans are so quick to accept brutal torture by our government and looks at it as nothing more than a Party squabble.
I feel like our entire nation has been seriously wounded by it all.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)can't do anything about economic inequality or torture are displaying the same hopelessness that those who have given up on voting express. They just haven't stopped voting yet. Sometimes it does seem hopeless, but I'm sure there have been lots of times in history when things have seemed hopeless. When I feel hopeless I look to our own history; the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, the labor movement. There must have been times when it all seemed hopeless. But they didn't stop fighting to make changes, and I refuse to stop fighting to make changes even when it seems hopeless.
Hekate
(90,627 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)but I cannot recall whether it was the case brought by Wilson
or someone else against someone in the B/C administration.
The important part was the judgement of the court, which was
essentially that once out of office you cannot be punished for
what you did while in office.
That judgement was never reversed. Still, we can write, and
we can also sign petitions asking for justice.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)is not true. Nor is it anything from any legal case. If it were, of course, Ford would not have pardoned Dick Nixon.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)calimary
(81,192 posts)antigop
(12,778 posts)may be interested in doing something on his show.
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)and, as tired as I am, I can't help but feel a twinge of rising irony since this latest report on all the torturing has hit the airwaves.
Where is the justice for all of those many victims of such horrific treatment at the hands of the good ole U.S. of A. "Intelligence" and its military?
For days before the release of that thousands-paged indictment, the MSM was chuck full of officials moaning and groaning, worrying greatly about possible repercussions, the safety of Americans abroad, and the security of the multitude of American "interests" around the world. Not once did I hear any talking-head mention the word "Justice" for those who've been murdered and tortured, not before the Torture Report was released and not now after, even tho they've all been so busy reading it and analyzing it and gaping their shocked mouths wide.
You've asked what I think and while I've no idea, legally, who might be brave enough or competent enough to do it, it must be done...seeking justice for those wretched crimes that were committed by our own government. I'm already preparing letters to send off to the two women who represent me in Washington (toning down my absolute disgust has been hard, but they've both heard from me several times before on the subject of Torture over the years and I know that they're sympathetic to my feelings, so I believe each of them might understand), telling them that now is the time to take decisive action to see that such criminals are rightly punished.
I've often felt thru my life that dealing with our government was similar to being alone in the wilderness, but you have my voice, if needed.
Not in my name.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)I'd been reading about his work for years, representing the Guantanamo prisoners, and fighting the death penalty. But, after combing thru my bookmarks to find him, alas, the guy is a Brit. He may help and support any attempts to bring a case, tho.
Clive Stafford Smith