An open letter to African-Americans who have left DU (xpost from AA)

[steve2470]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=10278

Please come back, if you can forgive the past. If things were too much in the past and it's impossible, I certainly understand completely.

I will do my best to support you. I know it will not be enough, but I will do my best. The Democratic Party and the progressive movement need you, and everyone! To be crystal clear, I want them to come back, personally, because I value them and their POV.

[BlueCaliDem]

1. I take that oath with you, steve2470. I will support African American DUers with everything

I've got. I value the wealth of information they bring to Democratic Underground and what I've learned a lot from. And they will never have to worry that I would ever disrespect them in any way, shape, or form.

[steve2470]

2. +1000000000000000000 nt

[hrmjustin]

3. I am so sorry to see so many leave.

Was there a specific event here or just sometjing that was building?

[steve2470]

5. I would go into AA and ask them, I can't speak for them nt

[hrmjustin]

6. will do.

Something has changed in this place and it is not good.

The name calling, insinuations, and fighting have seen to have gotten worse.

[wellst0nev0ter]

133. You Know How Other "Non-Partisan" Discussion Forums Have Become Uninhabitable Cesspools of Racism

over the years? Now a little of that has spilled over to this otherwise safe haven. Sure, it might not be as bad as Yahoo News or whatever, but we do have posters who talk down to black posters (or worse) regarding racial issues, and eventually we find other things to do with our time other than repeating ourselves to those who think they know better.

[hrmjustin]

137. That is a shame and I am sad to say I am not shocked that it has happened.

Looks like a good group of hosts for AA. As a host of two safe havens I say ban first and ask questions later.

[Jamastiene]

54. If you read their threads regarding the issue of racism on DU,

not just mentions of racism from elsewhere on DU, but racism actually ON DU, you get the idea. It was lots of specific events. They talked about it quite a while before finally giving up on the place. I don't blame them. What they had to endure here was awful.

I wish I had more time today. I would look one or two of those threads with lots of reasons listed in them for you and post the link. I'm helping my aunt with her computer today though. So, I will only be in and out some on DU.

I urge you to go read those threads if you can find them though. Usually, they are the threads in AA that were started a long time ago and have the most replies. Each reply is example after example of how bad the racism is on DU. It's not like they didn't try to let everyone know what it was like for them here. They did try, but were ignored, unfortunately. I miss them too.

[hrmjustin]

60. Thanks. i will look over in AA over the next few days.

So sorry to see people leave.

[CreekDog]

307. this exchange was less than helpful

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11876548#post85

The often racist content of Discussionist, which doesn't seem to be hidden anymore, is probably not lost on members here, not to mention who owns that site.

[LawDeeDah]

4. It's been too brutal here for too long. It would take a plea from admin

to even have a chance for returning to all the awful stuff here lately.

I think DU is in the midst of a coup d'tat.

The way the jury system is set up, even brand new members can be on a jury--pretty sure that's how it is set up, although you might need 50 posts or something but still that is insignificant for the power those votes have and who can just waltz in and cause havoc in droves.

This boat needs some major patching, it is sinking.

[pintobean]

7. A lot has happened in a few months

it seems.

[marlakay]

128. I've been here since early 04

and almost afraid to post anymore, say something even slightly off what someone else thinks and they jump down your throat.

We weren't like that when I cam ten years ago, its so sad

[XemaSab]

188. Admin doesn't give a shit

(Jurors, before you hide this, go see my thread in ATA.)

[1StrongBlackMan]

272. LOL about the ATA thread ...

or rather, the HIDE, in the ATA thread.

[Gormy Cuss]

274. THAT post of yours was hidden?

Lovely. Say something blunt and honest to admin and some jurors think they're too delicate to hear it.

[seabeyond]

275. +1. nt

[msanthrope]

300. That hide was as disappointing as the reply to you. nt

[steve2470]

303. +1 nt

[CreekDog]

310. I asked a similar question a year before you did

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592754

lots of nice words about considering our opinions.

[Stellar]

336. I was asked when I was new at DU.

The way the jury system is set up, even brand new members can be on a jury--pretty sure that's how it is set up, although you might need 50 posts or something but still that is insignificant for the power those votes have and who can just waltz in and cause havoc in droves.

But I declined because I felt I didn't know anybody and didn't want to misjudge anyone. Sometimes it takes a while before you get to know a person pattern of doing things. So, I requested not to be asked again.

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. I stand with you and DU's African Americans.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. I didn't realize until I read your post,

that this needed to be said.

[1StrongBlackMan]

257. Shouldn't this serve as an object and exemplary lesson ...

of Racism in the (white) Liberal world ... It's there; PoC speak on it, argue against it; PoC are ignored, or worse, attacked for pointing it out (ETA: Even by the institutional structure); PoC check out; a white person mentions it, and (white) Liberals, collectively say, "What? I had no idea it was that bad."

[Baitball Blogger]

287. I think the mindset that was most responsible for pushing the

drive to remove suspected "race-baiters" from DU a few years back were also 2nd Amendment proponents. I'm not saying they were trolls. I think they were Democrats who were blue dogs who wanted to win elections in the South, and they felt that giving race issues a prominent place on DU would scare off the Southern vote. Unfortunately, this strategy seemed to be absorbed, even by progressives, who still hadn't developed an ear for unfiltered opinions written by minorities. And as a member of a minority group, I know you know what I mean. We all learn early not to come across as too angry for fear of being written off as a militant.

All that changed after Trayvon Martin and Sandy Hook. Our sense of injustice finally had a focal point that everyone could agree on. Those two incidents woke up the true progressives on this board and the pendulum began to swing. What I found the most reassuring, was to see how the Feminist groups on this board came to the aid of the AA members to help protect their voices. It was an amazing event to watch.

We just need to be patient-a little longer. Let's face it, they will begin to listen eventually because the number of minority voters in this country, when galvanized, can win elections. Now all we need is to find someone that they can believe in.

[Number23]

323. Good LORD, you nailed it

PoC speak on it, argue against it; PoC are ignored, or worse, attacked for pointing it out (ETA: Even by the institutional structure); PoC check out; a white person mentions it, and (white) Liberals, collectively say, "What? I had no idea it was that bad."

And THIS, my friends, is white privilege in its all its (painful, stifling, rage inducing) glory.

[steve2470]

324. +1 ! nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

271. P.S. 257 was not directed at you. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

10. K&R

Hear, hear!

[msanthrope]

11. I stand with you and AA DUers. DU has become more and more racist, in small and big

ways. It's shameful.

[steve2470]

12. thanks! nt

[HappyMe]

13. Some of the things I have read

here lately are in the wtf category.

I wish they would come back, but I understand if they do not. There's only so much crap a person should have to put up with.

[msanthrope]

14. Bluntly.....when the AA President is called a LPOSUCS....it sends a message. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

17. kick

+1

[treestar]

143. lol looks like Liposuction

I have often wondered about those who claim there is no difference between Ds and Rs and that President Obama is just another of the elite in crowd (he does not speak ill of Rs in personal situation or refuse to speak to them) - if that's the case, then they should simply support African Americans in their happiness at having a black 1%ElitePartoftheClub President. Doesn't seem to much to ask of liberals that pure, they are hopeless of getting the President Che Guevara they deserve. The one who will take over and immediately nationalize the banks and end all wars - I don't think EW or even Bernie would qualify.

[lovemydog]

253. I'd say some of it is trolling,

designed to pit democrat against democrat. And to turn people off to voting. I try to oppose it or reply with my views when I see it. But I don't always feel like replying to all of the negative (and often histrionic and factually incorrect) posts about the President and other democrats.

[MerryBlooms]

16. Exactly.

[hifiguy]

15. Kick, rec and second!

[TygrBright]

18. What Steve says goes for me, too. n/t

[steve2470]

346. thanks! nt

[tclambert]

19. Steve2467? Taken, darn. Steve2468? Taken, darn. Steve2469? Taken, darn. Steve2470? Yay! I got in!

Sorry, that's what I always think when I see IDs like yours. You are obviously a very patient Steve.

[steve2470]

20. lol the 2470 is from an old address :) nt

[riqster]

21. Well said.

[yuiyoshida]

22. May I ask a silly question?

How do you know a lot of AA have left? I have not seen any figures.. but of course I wasn't really looking. I don't even know how many Asians are on DU.. I know one or two, I have not seen lately, but not counting them out.

[steve2470]

24. That's what they report in AA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=10278

If you read that thread above, they go into some detail about it.

[yuiyoshida]

26. wait...that thread was started by you right?

So where in that thread points to people fleeing DU?

[steve2470]

27. it's there....and let me find another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118710278#post49

start there, that starts a sub-thread

[yuiyoshida]

37. Okay thanks..

I think if 15 people left the Asian group, there be no one there but me. Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one who posts there..its like sitting at a bus stop in Blythe California, waiting for a friendly face to stop by.

[BlueCaliDem]

82. Fellow Asian and a friendly face here!

Suffice it to say, you're not the only Asian here, Yuiyoshida, although I'm not Japanese. I have about 10-20% Chinese blood in me, lots of Indonesian, Dutch, and English. But I look Asian so I am Asian.

[yuiyoshida]

86. Omg you look so pretty...

and is good to see you! HUGE Hugs... I have a glamor photo I took, but I don't know if I should even share it, the no make up look suits me...and I guess people expect me to be a plane Jane

[BlueCaliDem]

89. You shouldn't mind how people see you. You're beautiful even without makeup, if that

picture is an example. I look even more Chinese without makeup, btw. lol Oh, and this is how I always look. I've always worn makeup, ever since I was seventeen. I guess my father forbidding me to wear makeup has had a lasting effect in terms of rebelliousness because even today, I won't go a day without makeup although I have, on occasion, not worn any when struck with high fever.

Although I didn't post that picture for that reason, thank you for the compliment. I just wanted you to know that I am, truly, Asian and not just saying it.

[yuiyoshida]

91. okay for you sis...

Last edited Mon Jan 25, 2016, 08:16 PM - Edit history (1)

The last time I did this, I got a marriage proposal.. the guy lived in Washington State, and I don't do long distance relationships.. I got some pretty wacky comments.

[BlueCaliDem]

98. Wow!

You're gorgeous! And I fully understand why that guy promptly offered marriage! lol

May I ask...who is that cute little girl in your avatar? She reminds me of this young Chinese girl that I know who is pictured here with my daughter:

[yuiyoshida]

101. The photo came from this posted article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581610/But-I-LIKE-cookies-Little-girl-struggles-say-no-parents-teach-stranger-danger.html

She was so cute, I had to make her my avatar.

[bravenak]

102. That was one of my favorites!!

I wanna steal her with cookies!!

[yuiyoshida]

106. Keep the cookies...

I hope I have a daughter like her some day. She is Korean, and so very cute!

[bravenak]

108. I do.

I have a five year old and a nine year old. My five year old is still cute enough to steal.....

Your kids will be super cute, just like you!!!

[grahamhgreen]

232. Right.... And here's my selfie:

[AverageJoe90]

184. You *are* pretty attractive, IMO, if you don't mind me saying so.

[yuiyoshida]

194. oops, that was not for me ..

Last edited Fri Dec 12, 2014, 03:32 AM - Edit history (1)

sorry.

[BlueCaliDem]

198. Who would mind receiving a compliment? I sure wouldn't. :-)

Thanks, AJ90.

[Cha]

243. Well, hello there.. BlueCaliDem!

Yes you are Asian.. wonderful

[BlueCaliDem]

258. Hello, Cha!

Yes, I am!

[Cha]

328. :)

[Art_from_Ark]

227. Well, I'm still around

I'm not Asian, but I am in Asia And I'm still a member of the Asian Group, even if I haven't posted anything there in a while

[yuiyoshida]

228. always glad to see you Art...

I love everyone in the Asian group, I wish there as a way to friend people on here, but sadly there is not.

[Art_from_Ark]

330. Well, thank you

ありがとうございます。

You made my day

それで、あなたは私の一日を楽しくしてくれた

[AverageJoe90]

28. There's been some.

I do believe there were a few instances of individual folks who'd genuinely been pretty badly bullied by some covert RW intruders on here and felt they weren't safe, that I do know. But some probably left entirely on their own prerogative, maybe just because they didn't have time for DU anymore.

[steve2470]

31. with all due respect, I think the members of AA disagree with you, most of them anyway

If I'm wrong, AA members, please correct me.

[bravenak]

32. You are correct Steve.

My good friend AverageJoe refuses to believe most things we say. We are working on him, TBH.

[steve2470]

34. ok, I'm glad I did not mischaracterize the reality :) nt

[AverageJoe90]

40. Sadly, I'm afraid you have. No offense meant. nt

[steve2470]

38. ok, I'll step aside now and let you talk to the AA community here...

It would probably be best, imho, to have that in-depth conversation in the confines of the AA group. Just my opinion.

[AverageJoe90]

50. Sadly, that's not possible.

Because I'm no longer able to post there.....although I didn't actually do anything that warranted such; I hardly ever really posted at all over there, anyway.
(As it turns out, there may have been a vendetta of sorts involved. I'll try to DUMail you the details if I get the chance to do so.)

[steve2470]

55. with all due respect again, I don't want to get between you and the AA community....

so, no, please don't DUmail me that. Thank you kindly.

[bravenak]

74. You poor thang.

Don't you also have a problem with EE? You just hate double vowels!!!

[XemaSab]

190. I'm sure it's a complete coincidence

that he's banned from such disparate groups as E/E, HOF, and AA.

[bravenak]

193. Amazing coincidence...nt

[steve2470]

140. Again, I don't want any DUMail.........

If I get any unwanted DUMail, it will be reported to Admins. I hope I am clear. Good day.

[JustAnotherGen]

132. He's under this misguided notion about a vendetta

And tried to blame it on heaven05. Who if you say - "I'm sorry" - you know is a sweet pea.weve already told him publicly on the boards why he was given a boot - and it had nothing to do with heaven . . . Who is not even a Group host!

Now remember your thread about The Help? Seriously - we aren't a bunch of big baddies. He just likes to play like we are.

[steve2470]

134. the group has been really nice to me

I was pretty embarrassed about The Help, but you all were gentle with me lol

Heaven05's a great guy, he gets my thumbs up

[JustAnotherGen]

144. FreedRadical

He doesn't post much here anymore either. Hee was on that thread. Another older man who is one cool cat.

I create in my mind images of people I connect with online that I've never seen. . . Celebrities and icons if you will.

Heaven is Ossie Davis in my head.
FreedRadical was Morgan Freeman.

[bravenak]

146. Number23 is Angela Bassett.

I have no idea why, but she reminds me of her in Whats love got to do with it.

[JustAnotherGen]

149. Ha! Now see - when I think of Number23 I think

Diahn (sp?) Carroll. Elegant.

[Number23]

178. An elegant, ass kicking, drop dead gorgeous sista??

I can handle that!

[XemaSab]

191. You're Halle Berry

Mostly genteel, but able to bust out when the occasion summons.

[bravenak]

192. Thank you, that is so sweet!

I like her. I loved baps.

[JustAnotherGen]

240. You are Halle!

I always get Jack Black should play me in a movie about my life - in Buzz Feed quizzes. That ain't right.

[lovemydog]

254. Jack Black. Oh my gosh that's hilarious.

I'm afraid to do those quizzes. They'd probably assign someone really weird to play me in a movie. I'm afraid it would go immediately to my Facebook where everyone but me could read it. LOL!

[JustAnotherGen]

255. My husband is not from America so he missed School of Rock

Until he watched it with me.

Good times!

Good times!

[bravenak]

264. That is soooo crazy!!

Jack Black?? Your way prettier than him. So weird.

[JustAnotherGen]

266. Awww geeeee thanks!

But I might be crazier than him!

Especially when I'm performing Talk Dirty To Me in flannel pajamas on a Sunday morning to a crowd of 3 Million iin my living room . . . at 8:00 a.m.

The Gio swears one day he is going to start recording my performances and make me a You Tube star!

[bravenak]

267. Hey, I do dance performances!!!

Pole dancing without a pole!! Mike swears he's going to get me one for my B-Day. So romantic!! Be like when we first met...

Gio is too funny. If you crazy, I'm crazy.. I write stories in my head and argue with imaginary people. Characters never listen!!!

[JustAnotherGen]

268. 'be like when we first met'

And I was dressed as a French (AUTHENTIC took me three months to sew/make the damn thing) Can Can dancer (look at Halloween 2009 pics on Facebook) the night I met The Gio.

He walked in and I literally had my skirt up and was showing everyone my home made underwear aka bloomers!

[JustAnotherGen]

270. On another note - I wonder if people ever get frustrated with the

Justanothergen and Bravenak mutual admiration society?

Like when M0rpheus and I get into Gif Wars?

Or when I just walk around plus 1'ing BehindtheAegis posts?

[1StrongBlackMan]

277. Well ...

Justanothergen and Bravenak mutual admiration society?

You two, give this old SBM, hope!

[JustAnotherGen]

279. And you give The Gio hope

He stalks you as much as he stalks me here! He also stalks GuyWhiteyCornGood and after I saw his posts on this thread - I totally totally get why!

Seriously though - he's like if I ever have a son - I'm sitting down with 1Strong because Mr. Tom (my dad) isn't here - and he writes things that remind me of your dad.

[1StrongBlackMan]

280. Wow ...

When a man recognizes a man, to the extent that he would entrust his son to that man!?! ... That's high praise!

{Making a Brotha Blush ... proudly}

[bravenak]

273. I just looked at your photos....

I am jealous that you take them so well. You look pretty in every damn picture!!! Where are the ugly photos??? No. Fair.
I loved the outfit. You make me wanna plan my Halloween costume for next year. Maybe somebody from game of thrones.

[JustAnotherGen]

276. My head isn't going to fit in my car tonight - if you don't stop!

[bravenak]

278. My bad, I'll try a bit of self control.

It's hard. But I'll make it through the day...

[lovemydog]

312. I have conversations with people in front of me

or around me on the road when I'm driving by myself. It's better than giving them the finger!

[steve2470]

147. oh :)

Love both those guys. I also like...the Darth Vader guy...James Earl Jones.

[1StrongBlackMan]

259. LOL, He can't/won't hear from the AA community here ...

He has most of us on ignore because we are all malcontents, hell-bent on making racism on DU a major issue, when clearly it should only be a minor annoyance .. if in fact it exists.

[steve2470]

260. He's flagged for review now....

As I keep saying, we non-PoC need to defer to the judgment of the AA community on matters of race. I trust the AA community. It's THAT freaking simple.

[boston bean]

261. don't forget

"to be truthful", "in all honesty".......

[Glassunion]

95. I stand by my claim. Do you stand by yours that in some context it's ok to call someone house negro?

[AverageJoe90]

96. Didn't say or imply that it was "okay", btw.

Because it's really not, even if there's no racist intent, because it still *is* insensitive, at least. That I have never denied.

[Glassunion]

110. Sorry, not "ok". But when is it not racist to call someone house negro?

[ieoeja]

135. Isn't that the same as calling someone an "Uncle Tom" or "Ruckus"?

I thought "house negro" in modern times refused to an African-American who sells out his fellow African-Americans.

To wit, racists love it when Conservatives Blacks talk about how Blacks have only themselves to blame for the problems of the Black community. I would not think it racist to call such a person "house negro", "Uncle Tom", or "Ruckus" (reference: Boondocks).

I gather you disagree?


Albeit, the true history of slaves who served in the owner's home probably only rarely jibed with this protrayal. The duty may be lighter, but the slave would be in more contact with the owner and, hence, more at risk.

And the great hero of the Haitian slave rebellion, Toussaint L'Overture, was a house slave. After helping his master's family escape he joined and eventually took charge of the rebellion defeating the French and Spanish while pinning the British to a single peninsula simultaneously.

[Glassunion]

173. We were discussing its use on DU.

The poster felt its use was insensitive, not racist.

[ieoeja]

122. "Hell, one poster here has outright claimed that racism is accepted by the DU community."

My ears are burning.

[AverageJoe90]

123. I assume you haven't seen the post, then.

It's all there for you to see:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025944287#post23

[MrScorpio]

265. You are absolutely correct in your assessment, Steve. nt

[yuiyoshida]

33. I don't know, I have felt Racism

from time to time in comments made back to me. A huge example is when I responded to a post in Japanese and people went ballistic. I have learned not to do that again, but..its weird cause I have seen people post stuff in Italian, or French and never called out on it, but watch out if you post in an Asian language! ,... that bothers me a lot.

[AverageJoe90]

36. Sorry that happened to you.

Do you happen to have the link to said thread on hand, though?

[yuiyoshida]

42. Its not exactly something I put a book mark on ,its

the only time my threads have ever been locked, by a jury decision. In fact, I have only once ever had a thread locked, and that was it.

[PeaceNikki]

44. I remember that as well.

Shameful.

[AverageJoe90]

92. Well, okay then.

I don't bookmark a lot of posts, either, and in fact, I sympathize, as I've been the victim of a fair number of bad judgments myself over the past year or so.

[1StrongBlackMan]

284. They were afraid you were secretly talking about them! ...

Just like the folks that complain to me (in my HR role) about how rude it is that two people would engage in a conversation in their native language, KNOWING that others don't speak/understand that language.

My response is always: "Were they talking to you? Did you get the sense they were trying to include you in their conversation?" And, when the complainer points out that the native speakers were clearly EXCLUDING them from their conversation, I ask: "Do you, regularly, welcome anyone that happens to hear your conversation, to participate in your conversations, no matter what you are discussing?"

That's when it becomes clear ... it always comes down to, "They are/may be talking bad about me."

[yuiyoshida]

331. That's exactly right...

I have been booted out of chat rooms for saying a few words of Japanese to my friends. One accused me of calling her "a bitch" in Japanese.. before I could ask her if she knew Japanese I was booted. Talk about paranoid.

[bravenak]

39. I remember that!!

It still makes my stomach hurt thinking about that. I was pissed. One of the most xenophobic moments on DU.

[yuiyoshida]

48. The worst of it was I had someone do a poll and

the majority people said that no one should post in another language without a disclaimer. SO .. you could post something even in Russian, and it would never get locked. Post it in Japanese, and bam!!! Its locked out. Something a bit unfair, but most of DU said they wanted that way..its no wonder some people end up getting frustrated and leaving.

[bravenak]

57. The same people that had such a problem never alert on other languages.

After that I test posted from time to time in Spanish and German. No alerts and one awesome correction on my german, I asked for help. The poll would have hurt my feelings.

[yuiyoshida]

64. There see? But if I posted a comment in Japanese

without a disclaimer I would be locked out. The thing is, and let me be perfectly clear on this, No translator is good enough if someone is typing in Japanese. I am not that good at the language cause I don't practice it a lot, but I know enough to know that some people will use a translator and get entire sentences screwed up. For some reason most translators will work with languages from Europe, like French, but with Japanese forget it. You Have to know the language to see how the translator works ...its terrible.

[steve2470]

233. here is that poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025053361

13% voted for English only. Amazing. To be clear, feel free to speak and type whatever you wish. I will admit to being lazy about going to Google Translate.

[yuiyoshida]

333. Thanks for finding that...

どうもありがとうございました I want to go read it later.

[steve2470]

52. here is that thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=800210

[yuiyoshida]

58. That whole thing still churns my stomach , read though that

and not only will you see xenophobia, you will see comments that border on racism.

[steve2470]

59. ........

[MerryBlooms]

103. Absolutely despicable comments in that thread and jury. I agree, it's stomach turning. n/t

[Number23]

202. I remember that thread too because I gave serious props to Asahina Kimmi (I'm probably

spelling that wrong) when she basically told some jerk to take a hike who was jumping down her throat.

It's a shame because I wish I could say I was surprised by the behavior you both experienced in that thread but unfortunately, there was nothing surprising about it.

[yuiyoshida]

206. She is Just as Japanese as I am...

Japanese American, and yet, THE GUY KNEW BETTER ABOUT the Japanese language, despite the fact he never claimed any Expertise, after all what does a Japanese person know about their own language and culture...not as much as that GUY I guess...

Just in case its needed.


It reminds me of the time, this guy was trying to impress me with his knowledge of the Japanese language. I ask him where he learned all these words? He said from watching the Naruto Anime Show.

I told him you can't learn Japanese that way, you need formal training. He said, "Naw, I could go to Japan right now and get by..."

"I told him, yeah you could, after some guy punches you in the nose for using insulting language. If a cop doesn't throw you in Jail, some one may punch you in the face."

He told me, "No chance.. I have watched every episode of Naruto , I can speak Japanese now!"

I told him, You really don't understand, Japanese is not like any language you just pick up by hearing it. There are levels of politeness you have to learn, and know when to use them, or you are going to be another Baka Gaijin (ignorant foreigner) to the first person you meet.

The guy told me I was full of shit. Yes this White guy knows more than me...I said good luck on your trip to Japan, come see me when you get back. I never did hear from him.. I guess someone knew better than me, after all I was just a Japanese female..who grew up with Japanese parents. I guess that means nothing at all, at least to his arrogant self.

[Number23]

210. lol It's really apparent that there are alot of white people that have swallowed the centuries old

(white) Western narrative that they are smarter/wiser/better than everyone else, put here in their benevolent beauty to show all of us lowly non-whites The Way.

THANK GOD this beyond racist line of thinking appears to be dissipating. But not fast enough. Black folks get told all the time what is and is not racist AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE by white people. There are people even doing it in this thread.

[yuiyoshida]

213. There used to be a name for it..

I forget what it was called, but one of the examples I remember was in a movie, I believe called American Ninja, where this Caucasian Hero type goes to Japan and joins the Ninja's to become King of the Ninja's in their crusade. You can see where this is going, ... there are many movies like that... where a Caucasian goes and joins some Native Americans and lead a battle against...Idk who...like we all can not manage by ourselves...

Maybe the Last Samurai was like that with Tom Cruise... This theme rolls over and over again. Show these ignorant natives what it means to be a Leader and a Champion because by ourselves we will never get it right. That was the theme in the movie Avatar as well, I think.

[Number23]

218. Oh my God, you absolutely MUST participate in the African American group. We would SO love to have

your perspectives!! http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1187

You and Asahini Kimi are most welcome! We have talked about four bajillion times about how sick and freaking tired we are of the portrayals of black people in movies and tv. We're either maids, criminals or helping white people "find themselves" (as in The Help, Bagger Vance, Ms. Daisy and a jillion other films). JustAnotherGen has talked so much about how much she hates The Help she could write a PhD thesis! And she is BY NO MEANS the only black woman that has SERIOUS problems with that movie.

I have also personally discussed my dismay at the portrayals of Asians in film and have talked a lot about how insulting and upsetting it was to me that all of the main characters in "Memoirs of a Geisha" were CHINESE! http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=4844

Please come and hang out! I'd love to talk media with you because everything you've said is spot on

[yuiyoshida]

221. Memoirs of a Geisha was a movie I boycotted..

Only because Hollywood expected they could throw any Asian in there and they would work. Granted Michelle Yeoh and Ziyi Zhang had just come off the successful Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which I love by the way. One of my favorite all time movies, but Hollywood thinking they could throw any Asian (or for that matter a Caucasian into a project) and make it work was horrendous.

Think this guy:


Yes, I know times were different in the 1960's .. but not much has changed.. how many main Asian Characters have there been, unless its coming from a low budget Asian film from Hong Kong.

Most were Super Villains like Odd Job in Goldfinger or Dr. No (A Caucasian playing a Chinese guy) or they were side kicks.. or worked as Cooks, (Hop-sing from Bonanaza) or gardeners. There have been some great Asian roles like in Star Trek.. (Original Series to TNG, Deep Space Nine and Voyager.) Not to mention people who made it on their own into American movies, like Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. Many of my friends complained about Bruce Lee never getting the role in the TV Series Kung Fu which went to David Carradine.

I could go on and on about all of this. I have an idea, why don't you guys drop by the Asian Group, we could always use some more life there. Kimi has told me, she probably will not be on as much, but will still spend some time checking out what is happening on DU from time to time.

The holidays are coming up too, so that means spending more time with family. I will stop by and check out your group, and thanks for the invite.

[1StrongBlackMan]

285. Ahhh ...

Don't get me started on the hit movie: Avatar (the rip-off of the equally offensive, Dances with Wolves!

What ever would we do without them showing us the way (of our own culture)!

[Rex]

295. Yes the Last Samurai is beyond stupid.

The Emperor of Japan asks America to send it's best military soldier (of course Tom Cruise) to his kingdom so he can train the ignorant peasants about modern warfare. Of course Tom becomes super ninja samurai bad ass General America and saves the day.

The ninja movies/tv shows always made me laugh when I was a teen (1980s) they were so stupid and cheesy.

It takes a Japanese man his entire life studying and trying to master ninjitsu...yet somehow an American always comes along and learns ALL the skills in about 20 minutes of movie time. Then after another 10 minutes he is the Grand Master of Flowers and knows the super secret level 20 quivering palm strike! Bad guy (who also has spent a lifetime learning martial arts) now all the sudden gets his ass handed to him and the end of the movie we see Dash Handsome kissing the girl and getting a nod from his sensei.

So stupid.

[JustAnotherGen]

305. This is for you AND bravenak both!

Yeah - you need to bring your ass back to the AA Group or start participating in the Movies group. I think DU would be an excellent place to have these discussions about imagery and stereotypes in films.

And don't get me started on Angelina Jolie playing Marianne Pearl.

A big old whaaaaaaaaaaat the f*************ck? for that!!!!

And I felt TOTALLY cheated out of my money when I realized AFTER seeing Memoirs that the main characters were NOT portrayed by Japanese people. I have a diverse enough group of friends - let alone my industry giving me exposure to nationals from Japan, South Korea, China, Tawain - that you mean to tell me? They couldn't find ONE JAPANESE WOMAN IN THE ENTIRE WORLD to play Sayuri?

WTF - you do realize that there was a big search for Miss Scarlet - right? Leigh didn't just have it handed to her. You mean to tell me they couldn't do that Memoir? FFS.

This rant is ALL of Number23's fault.

All of it.

I feel like there's a hoodwink going on with the upcoming movie Selma. I'm convinced they are showing some people in the trailers but it actually stars George Clooney as MLK and Charlize Theron as his wife. Dicaprio is probably playing J. Edgar again - at least that one is accurate.

[yuiyoshida]

332. There was a simple reason they didn't bother to go look for a Japanse

woman to play the part. One was because Ziyi Zhang and Michelle Yoeh had just come off playing Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and the movie won lots of Academy Awards, and the second reason being,"Americans are stupid, they can't tell a Japanese woman from a Chinese Woman and don't really care so long as they look Asian."

I could name a number of women who could have played those parts, had they only did what Clint Eastwood did, ...go to Japan and find out who is who there. He did that for the movie about Iwo Jima and it worked.

[gollygee]

72. WOW

That is just plain wrong.

[yuiyoshida]

75. Yeah I would expect better from DU ...

Its probably why AsahinaKimi does not post as much as she did.. she tells me she almost expects raw comments from new members..who think its okay to say those kinds of things on this website.

[gollygee]

76. .

[AsahinaKimi]

81. Pretty much...

I used to hate it when August 5th came around, and the comments about the use of Nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nakasaki, but I avoid December 7th, Pearl Harbor day. For some reason, some people are still fighting that war, despite the fact, they were not even born then. Nuff said...

[steve2470]

139. nice to see you again, Kimi

Hope you've been well!

[AsahinaKimi]

145. Doing okay...

Its raining like hell today, big storm slamming Northern California.. and I am stuck inside with a hot cup of Coffee, with Whipped cream. Yui is right, I haven't been posting lately, but been here reading, I find if I post something, I tend to get slammed for it, so I am tired getting knocked around.

Is there racism on DU? I would love to see someone do a poll on that.. Steve maybe you could or the other Steve could. I would love to see the results of that.

[Jamaal510]

189. I need to check out LBN

more often. Can't believe I missed that thread.

[LawDeeDah]

61. That lock should Never have happened.

This is a perfect example of why the jury system is a total failure, even beyond that - why the jury system is killing any chance for a democratic atmosphere here. You don't have to be a mind reader to accept that not all, heck a Lot, do not take their jury duties 'in good faith'.

[steve2470]

63. +1 nt

[yuiyoshida]

69. Another time I have seen racism was during an event

Where a Australian freighter went after a Japanese whaler, true..they do deserve scorn for whaling, I totally agree on that, but one actually said "Those Japs should have been sent to the bottom of the ocean" and I could not believe my eyes, that this day and age someone would say that. No, sorry I don't have a link to it either, I don't keep stuff like that handy... but it was said..and its just as bad as if Rush Limbaugh had said it. From him I would expect it.

[stevenleser]

94. That was horrific. BTW I apologize for dropping the ball on something else we were discussing...

... sometimes I get so busy... but I digress.

That hidden thread and the complaints you got were terrible. I was kind of hoping a number of the folks saying some of that nasty stuff had gotten PPR'd then or since but I clicked on names and checked profiles and nope, they are still here.

There was some VERY ugly anti-Asian racism there. Not only that but at least one poster disputed with another Asian person of Japanese descent that what was said was Japanese.

Sorry you experienced that.

[yuiyoshida]

97. I think frankly the poll after that was worse...

I don't have a link to that either... You don't tend to want to hold on to bad stuff. Especially nasty comments regarding your heritage. I stay away from discussions on Japanese whaling, I am totally embarrassed by what they do there in Japan, but they are all not all bad. Someone threw the dolphin killings in my face, like I have anything to do with that!! OMG..I was born here of Hawaiian-Japanese decent. Yes my parents still speak Japanese.. but that doesn't mean I go out to Half Moon Bay and slaughter dolphins on my own!

Yikes, I could tell you a dozen other times people have made snide racist comments for me.. and I report them and the Jury comes back like, "Why are you even bothering to report this, you are wasting people's precious time with this crap." So I don't even to bother to report it any more unless its really horrible.

[stone space]

105. My wife gets crap like that at work.

A huge example is when I responded to a post in Japanese and people went ballistic.

It got particularly bad when the English Only law passed here in Iowa.

Sad to see that it happens here at DU, too.

[yuiyoshida]

109. Its not just English only ...

You can post in any European language, even in Russian but post something in any Asian language you will get someone alerting on it. YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A TRANSLATION, they said, and the translator on google translates it into some kind of gobbily guck. Then you get the statement, "Well who are you commenting that too, no one around here reads Japanese, for god sakes!!"

Actually quite a few DUers do know Japanese.. The real fear, is that "Omg, you must be talking about someone behind their back!!!"

I could use lots of harsh Japanese words toward say, someone like Rush Limbaugh, and someone would alert me thinking I said something about the original op.. then the post goes to a jury.. 6-1 hide the post.. with comments like: THIS IS AMERICA, why is she saying stuff in Japanese, go to Japan if you want to say that, no one here understands it.

[Rex]

297. I wish you would post in Japanese here

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but how do you make Japanese characters on a keyboard or is the keyboard keys in Japanese?

[steve2470]

304. you have to have the right fonts downloaded

http://www.yesjapan.com/video/pages/install-japanese-windows-7-vista.html

That's for Windows 7, for example.

I agree with you, I think she should post in Japanese or any other language she wishes.

[Rex]

308. We've become too exclusive on DU, our cultural diversity is shrinking.

I can't stand people that think we should only speak and write in English...because it is our national language (not really, but that never stopped someone from saying it).

[LeftOfWest]

45. Haven't been here that long, but No

You are wrong.

Have read enough of your posts to know that.

White privilege is real. You say you are very young.

Live and LEARN.

[AverageJoe90]

150. I didn't say anything about white privilege, though, now, did I? nt

[brush]

111. The big thing was the "lying piece of shit used car saleman" OP one prominent poster . . .

called the president in an entirely misplaced rant about the ACA.

That drove a lot of people away.

[AverageJoe90]

114. I know what you're talking about.

And yes, that was unfortunate, in my honest opinion, because our President truly is underappreciated. With that said, however, I know enough about this DUer to know that he is *not* a racist of any kind.

[msanthrope]

117. Um...when you cause that much hurt among the AA population here, and you don't

make a full apology and repudiation, and attempt to understand just the hurt you have caused....well, yeah....

That's being racially insensitive.

[gollygee]

118. Also

It was in the same general timeframe of a post about fried chicken and watermelon. Both were horrible, and the combination made DU look pretty ugly.

[msanthrope]

142. Indeed...the joking "gefilte fish" threads were horrible..and if you looked at the demographics of

who thought they were acceptable, and who was offended, I think it further reinforces the OP.

[1StrongBlackMan]

286. But that poster, just the other day, ...

Insisted that none of that happened!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5936728

Follow the string ... But first, coat your stomach.

[Union Scribe]

130. Oh bull

If that made people leave then it had nothing to do with racism because nothing about that post was racist. The grudge some of you hold over that thread is beyond ridiculous.

[brush]

153. Your post is exactly what we're talking about.

If this is really how you feel, you don't even have a clue.

Bye bye again.

[Cha]

244. Not as ridiculous as a "fucking piece of shit used car salesman".. which the OP finally self deleted

..was it because it was being reposted on a couple of rw Hate sites?!

[Union Scribe]

353. He deleted it. He apologized.

Are you ever going to let it go? Ever? Or are you and the others bringing it up all the time just going to hound him forever? And isn't it bad enough to hound someone, do some of you really need to act like he's in the fucking klan too?

[Cha]

354. I never saw the apology.

[Union Scribe]

355. Was he supposed to PM to you?

FFS.

I like you, but grudges make DU suck.

[Cha]

357. Hell NO.. I don't want any of his PMs.

[bettyellen]

222. LOL

I love you XemaSab!
:hearts:

[hfojvt]

148. I had another silly question

Why is a person's POV valued just because of the color of their skin?

So the POV of Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Michael Steele, Ben Carson, Condoleeza Rice, and Alan Keyes is valued? Because if they joined DU and started posting, they would be AA posters.

Election results from 2012, Obama voters

15.02 million white men (23%)
20.15 million white women (30.9%)
5.49 million black men (8.4%)
9.7 million black women (14.9%)
4.1 million latino men (6.3%)
5.76 million wise latinas (8.8%)
4.99 million all others (7.65%)

Are white people NOT valuable members of this coalition, even (gasp) white males?

DUers being generally anonymous and invisible, is the ultimate place for people to judge by the content of the post rather than by any other characteristic.

So I value the POV of anybody who is thoughtful, kind, funny, intelligent, articulate, informed, and so on.

[JustAnotherGen]

151. I would welcome

Colin Powell and Michael Steele in a heart beat.

Colin Powell because he was as nice to me as a little girl - as Wesley Clark was.

Michael Steele because he is one of the most genuinely kind people you will ever meet. On my father's grave - you might not agree with him - but you would walk away saying - what a sweetheart!

[kwassa]

167. I wouldn't welcome Powell or Steele for different reasons ...

I watched Colin Powell give a long live speech at GW that was supposed to commemorate the new international school there; it was instead a commercial for the Bush policy in Iraq that no one believed at that point. I realized he was a complete hypocrite and a shill.

Michael Steele is a local politician, formerly the head of the Republican party in Prince Georges County, the most affluent predominately black county in the nation. Still, Republicans are as rare as hen's teeth there. He is a sleazeball. Always has been. He says whatever he thinks will advance him at a particular moment, he has no other personal principles.

[JustAnotherGen]

247. This are very fair points

[Enthusiast]

263. I agree that Michael Steele is a sleazeball.

[yuiyoshida]

152. I am not sure I am the one you should direct this question to

I like Kimi's idea, about someone posting a Poll.. is there rampant racism on DU? I would also like to see the results. I would not want to post it, however.. I might be accused of starting something who knows what?

[JustAnotherGen]

154. I think the poll should read

Is there racial or ethnic bias at DU?


Because that starts the convo. And I remember that very ugly thread. . mylye222 is from France and posts in English - but has had a ton of bricks dropped because they didn't post with perfect grammar. On a thread about having lost their job.

[yuiyoshida]

157. Would you be up to posting it?

I would love to see the results.

[JustAnotherGen]

162. Not in GD - no waaaay

[URL=http://gifsoup.com/view/3909447/kanye-head-shake.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://gifsoup.com]GIFSoup[/URL]

[yuiyoshida]

163. I talked to others...

Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[url=https://imgflip.com/gif/9nw6h][img][/img][/url]

[steve2470]

359. every troll ever registered at DU would come out of the woodwork...

and vote no. That's why I won't do it.

[yuiyoshida]

360. and..they woiuld bring

Their troll friends...(and troll family members!)

[steve2470]

361. yep nt

[hfojvt]

292. well any post I write on DU

isn't JUST for the person I replied to. It's for anyone who reads it and wants to give their own answer.

[Glassunion]

23. I left for a while, then came back... Then left for a while again... Then came back.

My main issue beyond the blatant racism, is the more subtle racism that the community here finds acceptable. Especially when it agrees with the thème du jour.

[AverageJoe90]

30. Got some proof for said allegations?

That's a pretty serious accusation, amigo, that DU as a whole accepts "subtle racism", as you put it. You're going to need a LOT of proof for that.

[Glassunion]

41. First I have a question, if you'll oblige me for just one moment.

Would you consider it racist to call any black person a "house negro"?

[AverageJoe90]

46. Depends on the context.

Of course, I'm not one who'd be liable to use such language, but that may not be racist in and of itself, even if it *is* insensitive.

[Glassunion]

51. In what context would it not be considered racist to call someone a "house negro"?

[bravenak]

53. How about Uncle Tom?

It offends me everytime it's used, but it seems perfectly acceptable to many white duers. I do not like it. It is like calling a white person a ni$$er lover. It is used all the time here. That is soft racism.

[bravenak]

62. My good friend has me on ignore....

I am crying the saltiest tears in the universe over this loss. I miss you JOE!! Come back to me!!!

House negro is racist unless you are a field negro.

Here is a blog spot that I love reading. It will help you gain perspective.

http://field-negro.blogspot.com

[Jamastiene]

164. I see you are here telling AAs what is and is not racism.

I guess you got tired of telling women what is and is not misogyny.

[pinboy3niner]

168. Bingo!

[AverageJoe90]

183. Oh, spare me the crap. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

197. STFU IMHO and TBH, seriously STFU. No one wants to read your bullshit. OK

maybe some trolls do. But in all seriousness. Anyone brings up race or gender. Just STFU. If you're ever thinking to yourself "Hey I'm gonna set all these victim complex having whiners straight with my superior knowledge .....". You might just want to consider shutting the fuck up.







And to the jurors, what can I say. This felt really fucking good. Do what you gotta do.

[XemaSab]

199. .

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

294. :-) I don't know about you but I've had more than enough of "Captain Race-Relations" over here with

all of his IMHO, TBH, blah, blah, blah bullshit. It's like there's some kind of WP bat signal type shit that goes off in the White Cave every time someone mentions race, or brings up some grievance they might have.

[seabeyond]

321. !!!

and agree. thank you

[Bobbie Jo]

200. !

[Gormy Cuss]

281. ^^^All of this^^^ is true.

[1StrongBlackMan]

290. Now. Throw down the mic ...

walk off the stage and give me the honor of accepting my

[Heidi]

313. This juror voted to let it stand.

I'm so tired of people outside of the AA community lecturing the AA community. That's trollish behavior and I hope this jury results demonstrates that some of us will defend DUers who stand up against it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

314. You know, if it were something that happened a few times. I'd say "Hey it's a discussion board. Shit

happens. People talk to each other, hopefully learn a thing or two. Then move on." But this fucking guy, as i said above. Just lived for this shit. He then have the balls when confronted with evidence (real life experiences, data, etc etc.) to refuse to take any thing in. Then turn around and call everyone else close minded and biased. he's been asked nicely to stop. he's been banned from groups. People much better than I have tried reasoning. But nothing. Because he's a shit stirrer. I don't buy the whole "What? What's i sa?" act.

The question is; How much longer are the admins going to allow this shit?

[Number23]

325. I couldn't agree more, Heidi. Though I don't understand why XemaSab and Frog got their

posts hidden. Frog's post wasn't even that bad.

In an earlier post, I said that it's apparent that the admins and lots of juries don't care and all too happy to let racists and racism run loose around here. Well looking at this thread, a few juries have proven me wrong. So, I'm surprised and pleasantly so.

[Starry Messenger]

319. I'm so glad this got to stay.

[bravenak]

47. Yes!!!!

And the way they use Uncle Tom all the fucking time when talking about black conservatives. I never use it. But I see plenty of white duers that will argue until the cows come home to be allowed to use such race based insults, but just about die if somebody says cracker. I do not use either.

[Quackers]

212. I think you're right.

Uncle Tom, House Negro, both are racist terms and should not be used.

[bravenak]

214. I don't like cracker either.

I cringe when I see it for some reason. We can do better.

[eridani]

238. "Cracker" is more of a class slur than a racial slur

I never see the term used to describe affluent whites.

[bravenak]

291. It seems like a way to hate on the poor without consequences.nt

[LanternWaste]

316. Is there a demographic we may hate validly without consequence?

Is there a demographic we may hate validly without consequence?

[bravenak]

340. Seems like we always have 'disposible' people.

Many just ignore the consequences and find a new scapegoat.

[Feral Child]

338. I've used the term here.

And I sincerely apologize. It was insensitive of me and I really didn't realize that it was offensive. I understand now and won't ever use that phrase again.


I'm profoundly offended by racism. I'm a white dude, but racism is so ugly and disturbing that I have an actual physical reaction, a feeling of sickness, when I witness it.

And yet I see I have at times been part of the problem.

Another example:

I don't like the way people treat "service" workers. I tend to reply with "sir" or "ma'am" to grocery cashiers, for example, when asked a question. "Did you find everything you need today?" "Yes, sir."

A while back, I noticed that anytime I was in one man's checkout line, his face would change. Like a mask dropped over it. It suddenly occurred to me that I might be perceived as being patronizing. That he might feel I was singling him out for politeness due to WMG.
I felt really ashamed. I really didn't mean it that way, I just don't like it that cashiers, food servers, and other persons in those jobs have to take a bunch of shit from rude people.

But I was perceived as talking down to the man, and perception is everything. I insulted him. I hurt his feelings.
I felt terrible.

Communication is very difficult sometimes. I realize now that I should have spoken to him man-to-man. I was trying to be nice but I left the impression of "soft racism". I need to look at things from the other guys perspective, as much as is possible.

He's since changed jobs within the store. When I bump into him in the aisles I say, "Hi, How's it going?" or some such. His posture and his face has softened when he sees me. Maybe I got it right, finally. I hope so, anyway.


As a white guy, I've congratulated myself for my open-mindedness. Yet I'm still a clumsy fuck sometimes. Thanks for pointing out this particular gaffe to me. Lesson learned. A term that singles out someone because of race, like "Uncle Tom" or even "cracker" is racist and hurts people. Your objection to "cracker" (and I have noticed you saying that here) never made sense to me before. Now it does.

Thanks, and I'm sorry.




I also apologize for being long-winded. It's a fault and I'm trying to address it.

[bravenak]

339. I was not trying to make anyone feel bad.

Now I feel guilty too.
Please don't be too sorry, we are all in this together and we learn and move forward. I just try to put myself into people's shoes and ask if I would accept that or if it would be hurtful if I were them.
I also like to create my own terms. America spends so much time labeling us all and putting us into boxes. So exhausting.... Keeps us fighting over stupid stuff while they rob and kill us.

[Feral Child]

341. Thanks, bravenak.

I'll get over my guilt. I know that my blunders haven't been intended, so I can forgive myself.

And, please, you've done nothing wrong. You've given a valuable perspective and helped me to understand why these things hurt.

So, thanks again!

[bravenak]

342. Good. Glad we agree.

No guilt trippin'!!

[Feral Child]

343. Cool.

And, just a BTW, I've noticed and enjoyed your posts often. I find myself agreeing with you most of the time.

[bravenak]

344. I LOVE when people agree with me!!!!

I try to look at the big picture. Thank you.

[Feral Child]

345. ME TOO!

Unfortunately it's a rare phenomenum...


Have a great weekend, bravenak. I've really enjoyed our chat.

[bravenak]

43. Proof of racism?

Plenty.
It is there in the way that whenever black people say they experience racism, somebody demands proof. Like it is impossible to take a black person's word for it that they experience such things. We must provide proof.

[AverageJoe90]

65. "Like it is impossible to take a black person's word for it that they experience such things."

I'm sorry, but that's fuckin' bullshit right there.

The one other reason I asked Glassunion for proof, other than racism being a serious thing to accuse someone of, is because there have been a fair number of things that I've seen over the years on here, in which something was thought to be racist, but actually wasn't. And furthermore, a certain few people on here have been QUITE guilty of just throwing the term around as a means to attack someone, even if only subtlely so; I should know, because I myself have been the victim of such bullying(and no, I don't have any bookmarks on hand, or I'd have linked them).

And you're going to keep denying this truth, well, I'm sorry. I didn't come here for a debate anyway.

[gollygee]

66. Do you consider yourself an authority on what is and isn't racist?

This sounds like you think saying something is racist is worse than actually saying something racist.

[steve2470]

67. I'm a white guy...

Trust me, I take THEIR word on what is racist or under the radar racist. I think they know this far better than I do, or most white people.

I have yet to see an AA DU'er say something that wasn't apparent after some inspection.

Good day sir.

[bravenak]

68. Where is your proof that what I'm saying is not true?

[cyberswede]

77. You are utterly tone deaf.

[Bobbie Jo]

80. Profoundly. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

119. IMHO to be frank and perfectly honest golly gee, it's just

plain old trolling. Not even clever. How it's been able to last this long I'll never know.

[Number23]

179. + a million billion

[XemaSab]

195. +word

n/t

[LanternWaste]

83. That's quite the extraordinary allegation. No doubt, you will offer proof of it...

"because there have been a fair number of things that I've seen over the years on here, in which something was thought to be racist, but actually wasn't..."

That's quite the extraordinary allegation. No doubt, you will offer proof of it... lest anyone think you hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself to (which I believe is commonly referred to as 'hypocrisy').

[AverageJoe90]

93. I'm sad to say that it's often hard to actually *dig up* said evidence.

Mainly because Google is sometimes a pain in the ass, and, secondly, I don't really bookmark these things; because I don't obsess over this 24/7.....but perhaps I *should* start bookmarking, given that this kind of thing continues to be a problem(of course, a lot of times when I *have* been able to dig up proof, that usually gets fuckin' ignored anyway. Believe me, if this happened to you as much as it did me, you'd understand).

And, by the way, notice that I didn't bother yuiyoshida any further when she admitted she didn't have a link?

[LanternWaste]

107. Understandable. It's convenient to ask people for evidence to support their claims

Understandable. It's convenient to ask people for evidence to support their claims while yet rationalizing excuses why you are unable to do the same. No doubt, the cross you bear is both creative and imaginative.

[AverageJoe90]

112. I honestly wish that what I said wasn't true. And yet it is.

I'll leave you with this: take a moment to step into my shoes. Imagine that you have to stumble around finding the evidence you need because Google doesn't work as well as you'd hoped it would. And then try to imagine that when you *do* find said proof, and are able to showcase it, that such proof is ignored anyway, because the person you're debating with is too dogmatized to open their minds to something that doesn't fit 100% with their world view. This is my personal experience, and something that I've had to deal with MANY times, and not just here on DU.

[gollygee]

113. Wow. You have no idea how ironic this is. n/t

[kwassa]

124. AverageJoe90 never documents anything ever. He makes no effort whatsoever, and then puts us on

ignore.

I, and several others who ask AverageJoe90 the source of his opinions, and some type of substantiation, get stuck on ignore because he has no source for his opinion.


Yet he injects himself into every discussion on race as if he has some unusual insight on the matter.

I'm surprised he hasn't been banned, too.

[bravenak]

126. He is surely ignoring me.

My bitter tears have dried, though, the damage to my heart is beyond repair.

Yours,
Brokenhearted Bravenak

[gollygee]

127. He said he was ignoring me at one point

but he still responds sometimes.

[bravenak]

129. He does to me too.

But in an angry white males sort of way. He feels picked on by the AA group. And EE too I believe.

[gollygee]

131. I believe you were called "a clique"

I think the AA group is who he meant by that? But maybe he meant people of color and feminists, as we collectively are the ones whom he's trolling.

[bravenak]

136. Yes, I believe he was banned from AA.

Not by me, but, I did not protest.
I believe he has issues with SOME of HOF. And EE. I have no idea what the environmental and energy group could have possibly done to him. I believe he has issues with 'real' climate change.
Three groups that Fox new also has issues with. Coincidence?

[XemaSab]

196. Look up his username and "doomer"

Much as everything would be hunky dory between the genders if only the radfems would go away...

and much as everything would be hunky dory between the races if only the people who talk about white privilege would go away...

everything would be hunky dory with the environment if only the "doomers" would go away.

(Jurors, this is 100% true. Google it before you hide.)

[bravenak]

201. OMG!

Just nuts. That is all.

[bravenak]

217. Well, IMHO, TBH, thats a good thing....

He'll love discussionist....

[Spazito]

219. Wow, he got three in this thread alone...

and rightly so, imo.

[R B Garr]

225. Dang!

Double Dang!! He got caught up in his own eddy.

[Rex]

298. TBH

To tell you the truth, I've always been wary of people that start off a sentence with TBH or TTYTT. TBHTTYTTTBPHWU.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

170. You WILL survive...

I know how important someone's opinion of you is especially when that someone has no respect for you...but you will survive

But to be serious, racism?

Never heard of it, went out with the 60's, right?

[bravenak]

171. You always get it.

Racism sure, but not REAL racism.

[1StrongBlackMan]

293. And, let's not forget ...

The one time he DID post something that backed up his claim ... the writer of the piece he used (a non-DUer) came to DU to say he was full of sh!t!

[cyberswede]

175. Oh for the love of humanity...do you even read what you write?

[cyberswede]

185. If black people don't want to see the n-word in a thread title

I'll take their word for it. I probably don't even recognize some of the casual racism that permeates our society - it's not up to me to decide for people of color what is racist - casual or otherwise.

[LanternWaste]

283. Your shoes are irrelevant to your allegations of illustrating evidence we've not been provided with.

Your shoes are irrelevant to your allegations of illustrating evidence we've not been provided with. Your personal experience too, is irrelevant to the OP, merely more allegations.


"I honestly wish that what I said wasn't true. And yet it is."
No doubt, your perception validates that, regardless of whether objective reality may not.

"because Google doesn't work as well as you'd hoped it would..."
I use to blame the tools too. However, as I've said before, I realize you need to rationalize that which you do not provide while yet asking others to do the same.



All that being said, I simply do not believe you to be sincere, genuine or truthful.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

289. But he types IMHO and TBH about 98% of the time. So he must be honest and truthful! nt

[etherealtruth]

100. I am almost mesmerized by your posts when the topic of race comes up

It seems you appear in almost every thread I click on where race is discussed.

I wondered if you would learn from your interactions with folk .... then I wondered if you were capable of learning ... now, I am convinced that this is simply a caricature of / that you've created the most obtuse/tone deaf character you could imagine ... and that this is simply bad theater.

[MerryBlooms]

104. +100%

[LawDeeDah]

174. Enjoy.

[Glassunion]

158. Well, amigo... Two quick examples.

You've already seen the post on the "Speak 'Merican" or GTFO of DU.

"House Negro" - The following was alerted on, but the DU community let it stand.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2311824

"I hate niggers. That is all." - The following was alerted on, but the DU community let it stand.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025913516

Don't even get me started on the "white privilege" posts. Those degenerate pretty quick.

[AverageJoe90]

160. Wow.....you have GOT to be kidding me.....Way to miss the fucking point!

The first one was kind of insensitive, I'll admit that, but I am mostly referring to the second OP you linked to.

You CLEARLY missed what this person was actually trying to say. And for the benefit of readers, I'll go ahead and quote the most important parts of the OP, with emphasis:

I cannot even believe that I am reading this in the year 2014. Racists should not be able to be police officers, and especially not in areas that are majority POC. I can't even get my head around this kind of blind hatred.

I am a white woman. My husband is a POC, and our children are bi-racial. I do not use the word, nor does anyone in my family - and that includes all of my extended family. I have been fighting against racism since I was a kid, and long before I had any personal stake in the issue. But now? Now, my children's lives are on the line, and I want it out there. I want people to see what these people are saying behind closed doors and amongst themselves. They don't have the nerve to say it to our faces, but I will hold them accountable for saying it anywhere and to anyone. This has been sent to jury twice now, and has been voted on to be left alone, twice. If it offends you so much that you can't even focus on the real issue - police discrimination against POC - then I suggest that you find another cause to fight for, because this one is going to roll you over if that's all it takes to get you to the point of disgust and disengagement.

So, honestly, it was completely obvious that this post was written in the exact opposite spirit that you implied it was. Truly, Glassunion, I honestly cannot help but wonder if it's more than a bit possible you took this out of context on purpose.....yes, you were THAT far off the mark.

I'm sorry if I can't help but be highly cynical, but this kind of thing has been happening a lot over the past year and a half or so, and yes, at least some of that, in general, may have been at least halfway intentional, even if much of it may *not* have been. But even if it was accidental(and perhaps it was!), regardless, I'm afraid you still just proved the very point I was making. Jumping to conclusions about supposed racism in a reply, OP, etc., that wasn't actually there has indeed become a problem on here.

[Glassunion]

166. You just so eloquently proved my point.

You don't get it, and I fear that you will never get it.

The first one, you say is just insensitive. That's all. Not racist. Just insensitive.

Now onto the second link. The word "nigger" was used specifically to grab people's attention and bring them into the post. I completely understand that the post was about something quite the opposite. But to edit the post... Not to remove the word "nigger" from the title, but to have a white person explain why there is nothing wrong with her particular "use" of the word because she has a black husband and bi-racial children. She says that she does not use the word. But guess the fuck what? She did. It's right fucking there in the title of her OP. She used the fucking word that on edit she said that she did not use!

I did not miss the point of that post whatsoever. I got it. Some white lady used the word nigger to get people to read her post. Yes what those offers were saying was horrible. Yes the message that she wanted to get out there should be posted for the world to see. But to do so with such a racist term in order to do nothing more than to get people to click on her post is disingenuous at best and downright racist at worst.

You don't get it. IT IS SHIT LIKE THIS THAT MAKES DU REALLY FUCKING SUCK SOMETIMES. The nonchalant attitude towards racism.

Let me try and break down that poster's explanation for you...
"Racists should not be able to be police officers, and especially not in areas that are majority POC. I can't even get my head around this kind of blind hatred." - I cannot believe that someone who would say: I hate niggers. That is all., could be a police officer, let alone in areas where people of color are the majority. I should share this information. How to do it? Hmmm? I know, I title the post "I hate niggers. That is all.", but I'll put quotes around it, because that makes it okay.

"I am a white woman." - Using the word nigger to get people to click on my post.

"My husband is a POC, and our children are bi-racial. - So I can say nigger with quotes.

"I do not use the word, nor does anyone in my family - and that includes all of my extended family. - Nope not me... Never use the word. Not ever... Unless it's in quotes, just so I can get people to read my post.

"I have been fighting against racism since I was a kid, and long before I had any personal stake in the issue. But now? Now, my children's lives are on the line, and I want it out there. I want people to see what these people are saying behind closed doors and amongst themselves. They don't have the nerve to say it to our faces, but I will hold them accountable for saying it anywhere and to anyone. - A sincere and honest plea... I'll file it under "I hate niggers. That is all.", so the people can hear my plea.

"This has been sent to jury twice now, and has been voted on to be left alone, twice." - Because the majority of the community on DU are okay with casual racism.

If it offends you so much that you can't even focus on the real issue - police discrimination against POC - then I suggest that you find another cause to fight for, because this one is going to roll you over if that's all it takes to get you to the point of disgust and disengagement." - Because if my use of the word nigger that I never use (except when I'm using it), offends you, obviously you don't care about police discrimination. Because the two are mutually exclusive.

You don't get it.

[R B Garr]

169. Such an excellent post. Reminds me of a Dr. Laura call that ended her career:

Great post, Glassunion. Look how Dr. Laura diminishes, dismisses, and ridicules a woman on her show. That's the whole point of it -- the whole RW mantra of the poster you are responding to is to diminish, dismiss, and ridicule.* By being dismissive, they can control the dialogue. It's so transparent.

*That is the stock-in-trade of the Limbaugh's of the world, as well. All he does is ridicule and diminish.

http://genius.com/Dr-laura-schlessinger-racist-rant-annotated#note-1165784

[AverageJoe90]

182. Apples and oranges, TBH.

Because Dr. Laura actually *was* shitting on black people; and yes, I've heard this interview several times before, btw.

By being dismissive, they can control the dialogue. It's so transparent.

The irony abounds here. I'm not accusing you of being a hypocrite, by the way, but in case you haven't noticed, I'm not the one trying to control the dialogue here.....but there are people who are, and they are easily identifiable, if you know what to look for.

[R B Garr]

186. Your duplicity has not gone unnoticed.

You start your posts going one direction and then backtrack to cover your tracks.

I deleted more of my response here because I've seen this feigned confusion tactic used before as a way to instigate personal attacks to get posts hidden.

[Number23]

176. Please don't waste another second of your time on that poster. They take great pride in wasting

everyone's time and energy.

Usually, when people don't know what they're talking about they usually avoid the topic or at least are smart enough to ask questions. But no, that one -- drawn like a roach to an errant grape dropped under the fridge -- barges into every single race thread and burns 100 calories trying his utmost DAMNDEST to derail it.

He has been conversed with. Educated. Cussed out. SCREAMED at and he simply WILL NOT STOP and the admins and too many juries of DU do nothing to stop him. So at this point, I think everyone just needs to let him steep in his endless well of ignorance alone.

[1StrongBlackMan]

296. +1 ...

I caught that all, too. And was going to respond much as you did; but the universe intervened with an overflowing toilet incident (that on retrospect, is proof positive that the universe has a GREAT sense of humor).

Great response.

[Glassunion]

311. It's crap like that, that I leave this place from time to time.

Used to be a donor, and loved the place. If I wanted to read half the crap some folks post around here I'd sign up for stormfront.

[Zenlitened]

365. We'll know for sure DU accepts subtle racism...

...if you are allowed back after your latest suspension.

[NYC_SKP]

25. Recommended.

If you aren't a member over at Democrats for Progress, you should become one.

And, if you want, I can cross post this over there.

We have Nance Greggs, JeffR, and a few others over there who used to be integral parts of the great DU of the past.

I wonder how many still here remember Jackeens...

Jackeens!

[steve2470]

29. Totally cool with me if you cross-post

I'm a member over there also, yes.

[LawDeeDah]

71. Would some of the racist things here be allowed at Dems for Prog?

I doubt that, but what is the moderating system there?

If this isn't allowed to ask you here, can you PM me and let me know how you deal with racist and sexist (and all the other isms) posts? I would love find a place where my blood pressure doesn't kick up and feeling shame for being a human for some of the things I see here.

[NYC_SKP]

84. They are not allowed over there. Here is a link to the rules:

Rules: http://democratsforprogress.com/forum/misc.php?page=rules

Now the details are in the devil, in how the rules are enforced.

We have rules here, but we have bullshit enforcement since the moderators were relieved of duty and the task given over to anonymous juries.

Over there a few trusted members are mods, friends of mine, friends from here, and they simply banish any trouble makers.

It's plain enough to see who is a troublemaker.

[LawDeeDah]

90. Thank you

[ismnotwasm]

322. Just signed up

So far so good. It'll take me a while to post though

[brush]

116. Thank you. Think I'll check it out.

I need a break from here.

[PeaceNikki]

49. Thanks for this, Steve.

[steve2470]

56. my pleasure! nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

78. You get my support!

[steve2470]

79. thanks! nt

[MrScorpio]

85. If more DUers were like you, Steve, this would be more of a safe haven for black members

Thanks!

[steve2470]

87. Thanks, I'm doing my best

As I said, I know it's not enough, but it is my best. We non-PoC need to take your (the AA community) word on what is racist and what is not. I think the AA community IS the expert. That's how I see it. It's pretty simple to me. Very simple.

[ellenrr]

88. Steve, I bet your best friend is African-American

I wish all the progressive people who left
(according to DU'ers who have been here a lot longer than me)
would come back, and I don't care what their race is.

-

[pinboy3niner]

165. That is inappropriate and uncalled for

The 'best friend' jibe is applied to racists. And you're hurling that at Steve?

[steve2470]

348. thanks, I saw that earlier and chose to ignore it, it made my blood boil nt

[steve2470]

347. This thread is not about ME.....

and your comment was implying I'm a racist. Fuck that. You're going on permanent ignore.

[myrna minx]

99. I'm so very grateful for what I have learned from our African American Duers.

The overt and covert racism that can be found here is horrible, but their voices are needed here now more than ever. I understand if there are some people who would never want to return, but there are people who *do* treasure their life experience and perspective and have learned some very profound lessons from reading different perspectives. K&R

[KamaAina]

115. Preach it, brother!

</cultural-appropriation>

[herding cats]

120. You're a gem among stones!

DU would be a much nicer place if more people were as caring as you are around here.

[steve2470]

121. I'm trying, thanks :) nt

[herding cats]

207. I've noticed!

I'm not the watcher type I don't think, yet even I've noticed how kind you are here. Please, keep up the wonderful work, your effort isn't going unnoticed here.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record; we're all in this together. I believe the majority of us want mostly the same things here, we're just divided on how to achieve them, which is to be expected on a political discussion board. This is of course excluding the couple of handful of jerks who just say stupid stuff to tick people off and be hurtful. They're not the majority, just a noisy minority of what's represented here from what I have seen. Sadly, on the internet a noisy minority can sway the balance of peoples perceived reality. I don't know how to fix that particular problem yet, but I am open to suggestions on the issue.

[LawDeeDah]

125. I think the septic tank at Discussionist has a leak

and some of that sewage has been coming downhill to here.

[treestar]

138. Here here!

[Cha]

155. I always have.. and I'm sorry that anyone wanted to get the hell out of here because

of stupid racists.

Thanks steve

[steve2470]

156. mahalo Cha, my pleasure

[Cha]

161. K

[msanthrope]

203. We need to take back this board. nt

[Cha]

204. Just keep plugging away with the facts to counteract manufactured bullshite.

[msanthrope]

205. And the alerts on the dogwhistles....fyi...check out this gem....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5943937

[Cha]

211. Who says shit like that?! Whose freaking mind even goes there?!

[msanthrope]

226. Well...who then, after their mind goes there, shares it? nt

[Cha]

231. Exactly. :(

[Spazito]

215. Geez...

that post in your link is beyond disgusting.

[Rex]

220. TBH

Is now in the corner. TBH I am not surprised.

[cyberswede]

299. On time-out AND flagged for review

I guess we'll see what the Admins think of all Joe's humble honesty.

[Rex]

301. No doubt they will be awed by his honesty, integrity and good use of abbreviations.

TBH I can't see why he has any worries TBH TBH TBH.

[Spazito]

223. I alerted and, damn, the jury did the right thing....

Obama might as well be chained to the auction block.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5943937

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

This post is blatantly racist, imo. Making direct reference to the "auction block" when referencing President Obama, an African American, is deliberately over the top.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Dec 11, 2014, 11:03 PM, and voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Slave references with respect to the president are not OK. The (valid, IMO) point could have been made some other way.


Thank you, jury!

[msanthrope]

224. Excellent alert and hide. nt

[Cha]

241. Racism didn't end when Obama got elected President but it sure brought the racists out from under

their rocks.

[steve2470]

242. +1 nt

[Cha]

239. This is a good thing, Spazito.. I kept thinking about this after I read it and replied..

Thank you.. Only 2 out of 7 thought it was okay to say shite like that.

[Number23]

229. Holy Shit on a shingle!!

Sometimes, I simply cannot believe my eyes here. Good God

[steve2470]

237. here is my fantasy/wish

That hundreds and hundreds of PoC, as well as other minorities sign up here and begin actively posting. Until the jury system is dumped or at least radically reformed, this is the only way that any kind of under the radar racism can be counteracted. Right now, unless someone says something really obvious or uses the n-word, everything goes.

[madokie]

159. Same with our Native Americans

as well as our friends from the south of us. Hell anyone and everyone, you're welcome here as far as I'm concerned and I'm sure I speak for a lot of others besides just myself

[Cha]

245. Yes, madokie!

[steve2470]

250. yes I agree! nt

[JustAnotherGen]

282. ITA on both groups

We sometimes forget - this might be the ONLY place for a liberal/progressive in very 'red places' to connect on their beliefs and more important - their superior value systems.

[nc4bo]

172. Sad that the need for an OP like this is even necessary.

We can smell 'em from a mile away so these types aren't as clever as they think they are.

Gotta love that Big Tent.

Anyway......thanks Steve and all the good DUers who stand up against the bad.

[steve2470]

236. my pleasure! nt

[William769]

177. Well said Steve. You're a good man.

[steve2470]

235. you too, William :)

Solidarity with LGBT!

[appalachiablue]

208. I'm so sorry to know this happened, I'm fairly new. I want AAs here, any and all.

My family has AAs, Hispanics, many Asian, Jewish and other friends of all backgrounds. I sensed some suspicion, possible trolls? and tempers when I first joined. One very long heated thread about Not Bashing Midwest or Southern People a month ago was so bad I almost left. The adamant comments about toothless hillbillies, rednecks all being ignorant, backward and to blame for all conservatism in America was ugly and I'm not even Southern but I know very liberal Southern people.

[Cha]

248. Glad you stayed, appalachiablue.. as you can see.. so much of DU is the opposite of what

made you almost leave.

[steve2470]

251. glad you are here!

[JustAnotherGen]

302. Amen to it all

[Spazito]

209. Wonderful OP...

one I agree with wholeheartedly. I have learned so much from our AA DUers and am heartsick reading the posts on DU over the last few years, the racism, subtle and overt, has irrevocably changed DU, imo.

Given the kind of posts that have been let stand by juries, it's no wonder so many have left, sadly.

[steve2470]

234. thanks! nt

[JustAnotherGen]

246. I want to thank you directly for this thread

It has been eye opening.

Not just for what has been written - but for what hasn't been written.

As well as - who has not recommended.

The follow up by a few of our Asian members on some ugly that was recently experienced - was eye opening. I deliberately stayed out of that when it occurred because I saw "red" - and I've learned when I see "red" I'm not going to be able to add anything positive.

I've expanded my love for GuyWhiteyCornGood.

And true to form - many who "intersect" with black Americans - gave a sweet little rec if they did not add comments.

I would say: This thread is full of win and awesome!

[steve2470]

249. my pleasure, it has been educational to say the least

I'd like to hear from everyone at DU. I realize people are busy/holidays/working/sick/etc but yes, eventually, everyone.

[lovemydog]

252. I stand with you.

I value every African-American voice.

[MerryBlooms]

256. I echo your sentiments.

Thank you for starting this much needed conversation.

[steve2470]

329. thanks! nt

[Mr Dixon]

262. Nice

I'm still here, not leaving we all have to move forward together that is the only way.

[CanSocDem]

269. k&r Thanx for the thread. (eom)

[steve2470]

349. my pleasure! nt

[carolinayellowdog]

288. rec-- I hold the African-American group in utmost esteem

There are very difficult cross-currents swirling around the Obama presidency. On one hand, there is a tremendous amount of white cluelessness about implicit bias, explicit racism, and everything in between, and all too often it's evident in DU in the defensive reactions of whites to obvious facts. On the other hand, there are legitimate criticisms of the Obama administration in terms of class issues-- which some AA members like DeSwiss and blkmusclemachine share with others-- that are not racist in origin. As a white person with many black relatives, I'm concluding that DU will continue to be a gigantic cluster**** until 2017, and then maybe people can look back and sort out the issues. If it survives until then.

[CreekDog]

306. I think it needs to come from Skinner

He had a couple of posts in the African American group which were less than helpful in making African Americans feel welcome at DU.

[steve2470]

309. +1 nt

[underthematrix]

315. I'm AA and I no longer post here

although I did stop by to read a link from a site where I spend most of my time. But I think it's helpful for me to post my take on why African Americans may find this space unfriendly. At this site, I found myself getting extremely frustrated and sometimes angry at some of the posts and comments regarding President Obama. Often, it demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of how our government works and the complicated nature of governing. It reflected a sort of either/or thinking which is more developmentally appropriate for someone in the latency stage of cognitive development. It failed to take into account the historical and social landscape of what it means to be the first African American President of the United States, a landscape that is still racist, classist and sexist. As an African American, I'm constantly in fear for the President's safety and understand the role words and narratives play in securing and maintaining his safety. #Ferguson and #ICantBreathe are examples of why my fear is so palpable. Law enforcement officers are killing black men and boys. Law enforcement is also responsible for protecting the first African American President. I'm dismayed that so many here cannot appreciate the irony of that. That vast right wing conspiracy Hillary described during the nineties is real and effective in attempting to topple our government because a black man is at the helm. And the evidence of their effectiveness is on January 15, 2015 we will have our first KLAN Congress since the thirties when the KKK was at the height of its membership and influence. Again, with that said, I'm okay with not participating in the conversations here. I prefer the Obama Diary. It is a very diverse well-educated and intelligent group in which you can speak your truth. However, it too has rules. Disrespecting the President, e.g. calling him "Obama" instead of President Obama or making references to his character, e.g. "he's weak" is frowned upon. The focus is on the President's policy agenda and strategies and pushing back hard but intelligently against the media aka newsstainers who try to block him at every turn.

So in love I tell my white brothers and sisters here, this is your space to speak your truth. There's really no space for me here and I'm totally okay with that.

[steve2470]

317. thank you for your candid thoughts and feelings

I wish you all good things.

[lovemydog]

318. 'Often it demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge

of how our government works and the complicated nature of governing.' I so agree with you underthematrix.

I would like you to feel comfortable posting here.

Mostly I'd like to say thanks.

Your posts do not fall on deaf ears. I for one hear you loud and clear.

[1StrongBlackMan]

320. Well stated ...

Often, it demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of how our government works and the complicated nature of governing. It reflected a sort of either/or thinking which is more developmentally appropriate for someone in the latency stage of cognitive development. It failed to take into account the historical and social landscape of what it means to be the first African American President of the United States, a landscape that is still racist, classist and sexist.

I have attempted to make this point so often I suspect that, like on my S4, all I have to do is type the first word and the algorethem will type the rest. With every, "LBJ would have ..."/"FDR would have ..." posts, I point out that, neither LBJ, nor, FDR had race and/or racial stereotypes to contend with.

But that said, I respect your decision ... even though your absence, the lack of your speaking of truth, makes me (and other PoC) appear, as an out-lyer. (Just kidding ... I'm used to it.)

[Number23]

326. Amazing post. And I couldn't agree more with what you've posted

Especially this bit:

I tell my white brothers and sisters here, this is your space to speak your truth. There's really no space for me here and I'm totally okay with that.

You are not alone in that regard. Too many minorities have felt the exact same way and bowed out. I can't tell if it's just my innate stubbornness or what that keeps me here because I GENUINELY do not know. I haven't enjoyed DU since it became the "left" version of Fox News/Free Republic with its rampant, palpable, and yes as you've said, brain-breakingly moronic displays of ignorance of how government and America works in order to display its hatred of everything this man has done, whether he's actually done it or not.

And these folks wonder with open mouths why the viewership/participation on this web site is so low and spiralling further. And that's ALL participation here, not just minority, which has never been high but has actually gotten worse.

[steve2470]

327. "brain-breakingly moronic displays of ignorance of how government and America works"....

I could not have said it any better, Number23.

Yes, of course, we'd all like to have single payer and many other progressive goals as of YESTERDAY. There's a few hurdles in the way, namely:

1- RACISM
2- Republican voters
3- An apathetic and ignorant voting public
4- the Supreme Court which has tilted right for too long
5- Right Wing Radio and Fox News 24/7/365
6- the Koch Brothers and all the other plutocrats
7- the large multinational corporations
8- Voting lists stripped of minorities
9- Congressional Republicans
10- Other factors I'm forgetting.

The DEFAULT for American government is for the rich and large corporations to get their way. It's been that way for years, and it's not President Obama's fault. It was that way before he was freaking born.

They can literally buy votes in Congress, whereas we peons cannot. Can President Obama use his almighty bully pulpit and make all that go away ? Only a small amount. I think he does the best he can under very shitty circumstances.

If you're not happy with how things are, go make a difference away from DU, please. All the best to everyone and Happy Holidays/Happy December.

[Number23]

350. I love each of your posts in this thread. And I can't thank you enough for posting it

Happy holidays to you too, my friend.

[steve2470]

351. my pleasure!

[betsuni]

335. Wonderful comment!

Completely agree.

[pinboy3niner]

337. Your truth is our truth

It may not always be apparent, but a lot of us here support human rights and have common cause with AA issues.

With or without you, we'll still be here. But it means so much more with AA voices here.

What I'm trying to say, from one of your white brothers, is that I really wish you would stick around.

[msanthrope]

363. Please stay...your voice is needed here. nt

[Jamaal510]

334. Glad to see

this thread still alive and kicking, and not sinking. I showed it to my sister last night. She thought it was an interesting read, and was joking around about how it's such an odd combination for some people on a political board to be "ultra-liberal, yet racist". I couldn't agree more. When I first joined in April 2012, I never thought I'd see the amount of political ignorance and disconnect regarding social issues that a handful of DUers appear to display. This was the type of stuff I was trying to get away from on YouTube and elsewhere. I still like DU, but I now sort of understand why she never wanted to join. Like an earlier poster stated, DU is almost like the left's FreeRepublic. While DU does have stricter rules overall and many DUers seem like friendly and reasonable folks, the two are somewhat alike in the sense that it has some hyperbole, litmus tests, a handful of posters displaying ignorance of the checks-and-balances system, and some dismissing social concerns.

[Number23]

352. Well said, Jamaal

I never thought I'd see the amount of political ignorance and disconnect regarding social issues that a handful of DUers appear to display. This was the type of stuff I was trying to get away from on YouTube and elsewhere. I still like DU, but I now sort of understand why she never wanted to join. Like an earlier poster stated, DU is almost like the left's FreeRepublic.

Yep. Yep and yep.

[Jamaal510]

356. Thanks.

[steve2470]

358. well said nt

[Kali]

362. late to see this, but k (if it will) and R!

not the least of reasons being the vacation of a certain robotic, tone-deaf freaking troll.

[kwassa]

364. I'm glad that others see him for who he really is.

we who are on his ignore list salute you.

[akbacchus_BC]

366. You really think they will come back!

The crap that people of colour have to take on this site is horrible. Whites really do not try to even understand people of colour, they tell us how we have to behave, and to me that is not trying to understand us.

I get where you are coming from because a lot of whites were in the movement to end slavery and they got called names, but you have to understand that bigotry in America is alive and well. For crying out loud, there are a lot of KKK folks in the police force right now who have the opportunity to kill little black children for no reason!

Good luck to you!