Fed Up Doctor Writes Angry Reply To Company That Makes Employees Get ‘Doctor’s Note’ When Sick

[KamaAina]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/12/10/fed-up-doctor-writes-angry-reply-to-company-that-makes-employees-get-doctors-note-when-sick/

Having respect for one’s employees seems almost quaint in today’s workplace. More and more companies are asking their employees to provide “proof” that they were really sick when they take time off by requiring that they bring in a doctor’s note to vouch for them.

Insulting to the worker, the all-too-common practice also has some pretty negative consequences for just about everyone else as well. One Canadian doctor must have received one too many requests for the dreaded doctor’s note because he wrote a terse, but important letter to the unnamed company which was clearly a repeat offender.

The doctor makes several strong points for why a company should not be sending its under-the-weather employees into an already crowded hospital or clinic just so they can get a slip of paper verifying they had a sore throat....

It’s doubtful that even the ill employees want to waste their time and energy heading into a hospital just for a headache or cough. By not trusting their employees, companies are adding to their workers’ discomfort, and as this doctor points out, potentially harming people with serious illnesses.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

1. I love this. Good for the doctor. nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

2. It's brilliant and knocks it out of the park.

[world wide wally]

89. I think that everyone who works for a boss like this needs to scan this letter, print it out, and

bring it to your boss the next time you need a note from your doctor.

[nichomachus]

3. This is all fun and games

Until you're a manager who has employees who call in sick once a week -- and leave you high and dry when you're counting on them to work a shift.

People abuse the system. You can't fire them for being "sick" even when you know they're scamming you. So, your only defense is requiring a doctor's note.

[Throckmorton]

4. Then paying for your employees to obtain said note should not be an issue for you or your company.

After all, if they are really sick, and not malingerers, then their physician should be remunerated for providing them with the required note.

[sunnystarr]

5. Is there a new rule on DU now?

Whenever something positive is posted like this op, someone now has to take a dump on it?

Wake up nicho ... people have always scammed a system and somehow it all worked out anyway. There's always a rotten apple in that barrel (in fact I think I just found one) but we don't have to throw the whole barrel out.

The mythical, hypothetical of multiple employees who call in sick once a week who you're describing doesn't last long enough to accrue sick time - they get FIRED first.

And if that was your only defense those employees WILL come into work sick with their 24 or 48 hours stomach flu and vomit all over your office.

[SomethingFishy]

8. +1.. An employee who calls in sick "once a week" is either in poor health

or a shitty employee. It's pretty easy to tell the difference, and if you can't tell the difference, then you have no business making management decisions that affect peoples lives.

[bullwinkle428]

23. +1000. I've worked in the corporate world for over 25 years, and having

this ridiculous policy requiring notes is another example of management lacking the stones to address individual "problem" employees, by instituting a "blanket" policy to make the 95%+ that don't abuse the system have to jump through unnecessary hoops.

It's really pissed me off when I've come down with something and proceeded to go to the doctor's office, knowing full well that I'll receive the "speech":

"You have a viral infection, so there's no point in giving you antibiotics. Just go home and get some rest, and drink plenty of fluids."

It's like, "I know you can't really do anything for me, but I just needed the note."

[Liberal Veteran]

25. What really sucks is if you have no sick time AND they want a doctor's note.

So not only are you out of a day's wages, but you have to pay your doctor as well for a note.

[SomethingFishy]

32. Nothing like a $20 copay when you are making 8 bucks an hour at Wal-Mart

and are already losing a days work..

[NYC Liberal]

34. I worked at a place once with no sick time and they paid minimum wage.

I called out sick ONCE, for one shift. I came in and was told by a manager that I needed to get a doctor's note. I told him straight out, "You don't provide health insurance or sick time, and you pay me minimum wage. But you expect me to pay to go to the doctor just to get a note telling you I had a slight fever and a bit of a cold? Get real." Luckily they dropped it.

[VA_Jill]

98. Oh, yeah

Hospitals have the WORST health insurance! I ought to know, I worked for a bunch of them! Most of the time I didn't bother with their insurance because we just used my late ex's, which was with a non-healthcare company and was pretty decent.

[Horse with no Name]

56. and then there is Mr. Obvious hitting you upside the head

[Orrex]

11. That rule has been in effect for years, alas.

And some people are all too happy to obey it.

[Skittles]

73. the rule I've seen is on day three

[nichomachus]

16. I didn't think it was positive

I thought it was nasty and mean-spirited.

But apparently, there's a rule on DU that all employers are evil and all employees are saints.

[sunnystarr]

21. FREEEEEeeeeeeppppPPPP

or is it freek

or

freak ....

[Humanist_Activist]

40. *sniff* I think I smell something, under a bridge perhaps?

Hmm, someone's not going to last long here.

[kcr]

46. Any employer who requires a doctor's note for every call in sick is an evil employer

Because there is no reason for such a ridiculous policy other than to strongly discourage the use of sick days.

[jtuck004]

48. Nasty and mean spirited to have to pay for what you want ? Typical business owner, wants it for free

Dr wants to be compensated for his or her time, just like business owner. - except thee business owners apparently wants to screw the employees, the doctor, and anyone else who gets in the way for profit.

[valerief]

50. I think you got lost on the internet. nt

[arcane1]

61. I think they were referring to the smack-down, not the employer's policy n/t

[Iggo]

26. LOL...that's a really old rule.

[Ed Suspicious]

28. I think the poster raining on the parade is cranky today.

This isn't his first ornery post if the day.

[MadDAsHell]

77. Sounds like you're the one taking dumps on others...

What an unnecessarily angry reaction.

Is the point of DU to simply K&R every post you see, or to actually discuss?

"The mythical, hypothetical of multiple employees who call in sick once a week"

And just because you haven't seen sonething there in your tower, oh mighty one, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[ProfessorGAC]

92. And Just Because You Saw It Once. . .

. . .doesn't mean it's systemic.

See how easy that was.

[pipi_k]

85. And is there some kind of rule

that says people don't have the right to express an opinion even if it goes against the grain or (god forbid) rains on someone's little bluebird of happiness parade?

I don't agree with Nico's stance, BTW.

Just his right to express it without being slammed and accused, in not so subtle language in a post below, of being a troll.


Good god. People can't disagree without attacking someone else?

sigh...

[world wide wally]

88. When one excesses the right to their opinion, others have the right to do the same about that

opinion.
And personally, the post about how it costs the employee and the doctor just to appease the business makes much more sense than a narrow mired defense of the business owner.
Just live with it.... Oh, and bring a note from your shrink if it causes any distress

[LanternWaste]

6. Or, sick, vacation and PTO benefits.

"So, your only defense is requiring a doctor's note...."

Or, sick, vacation and PTO benefits.

I can understand that the dogmatic may often think there is only one solution to any given problem, but that particular bit of willful blindness is on them.

[Lochloosa]

7. I rarely call in sick. I like where I work and they pay me well and treat me well.

Might be a lesson there.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

30. +1. Treat me well as an employee and I will bust my ass for you.

Respect goes both ways. And, is usually quite profitable for the company in the long run. Problem is, too many managers are not leaders and too many upper managers aren't allowed to think beyond the next quarterly statement.

On this point, more than one of my bosses over the years have made it clear that if any of us are sick, use the sick days - they want us back when we can contribute, not "punching a clock" and exposing others.

[arcane1]

62. Same here, my boss will demand I carry my sick ass home

We get 7 sick days a year; anything more comes out of vacation or is unpaid.

This thread has made me count my blessings. I've been in such worse situations!

[laundry_queen]

54. Bingo.

I just posted about that upthread. An employer who treats their employees well will have loyal employees who are not out to screw them at every turn. If you have employees constantly trying to screw you, then it's all on you due to how you treat them.

[adieu]

10. It is ultimately the company and manager's

Responsibility to have a dedicated team whose members are not likely to "scam" the system. Start with the hiring practice. Then go through the whole employee training and responsibilities procedures. A company is based on trust. If you don't have trust, you don't have a company; you just have a group of mercenaries. Trust has to be reciprocated. If you demand or require trust from the staff, you must offer trust to them as well. If you, instead, have a writing policy that obviates that trust from one side of the equation, then don't be expecting any trust from the other side.

[Liberal Veteran]

12. It's all fun and games until everyone in the department is sick.

I've seen this happen too many times. An overly anal or restrictive sick policy and someone who is not quite sick enough to go to the doctor, but will be written up if they don't have a doctor's note, and a few days later, everyone in the vicinity is begging each other for tissues, cold medicine, cough drops and hacking up snot.

[Hekate]

43. Strep throat ran through my office like a fire because two "dedicated" employees wouldn't stay home

I used to have a pretty good immune system, so I was quite irked when I got sick from my boss using the phone at my desk. I had shared a room with a younger sister who was susceptible to strep and never got it myself. I had nursed my kids through strep likewise. But it took adults who wouldn't use our fricki n generous health plan to take a day off to give the bug to me and make me sick as a dog.

All things considered I would think it would be to the advantage of employers everywhere to be understanding of employees who need to take a day off, and to encourage the contagious to do so. Personnel policies ought to be in place to keep track of abusers of the system, as they are not that difficult to spot.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

67. The worst one I've seen was

when hubby worked at the local VA hospital which was connected with a medical school as well. There were lots of elderly, immunocompromised patients.

His boss was sick. Boss had gone to the doctor, who told him to STAY HOME.

Boss (with a Ph.D.) comes to work, stands over hubby, coughs all over him and gives him the worst cold he's ever had in his life. He stays home sick for about a week, dying on the sofa. Then I get it in turn, and then my daughter gets it.

I wanted to kill the boss. Too stupid to stay home from a hospital with elderly frail patients in it? This tells me that some people go into the medical field to help heal people, and others just see it as a job. what an idiot!!!

[SheilaT]

18. You can fire employees for excessive absenteeism. At least you should be able to.

And as someone else has pointed out, an employee who actually calls in sick once a week isn't going to accrue much sick leave. They're just using it up as it it becomes available.

[daleanime]

36. Sick leave?

What's that?

[Curmudgeoness]

19. I have also been a manager,

and I know that the employees who "call in sick once a week" are not doing a great job when they are there either. They don't have to be fired for being sick, because they are sure to be doing things that you can fire them for while on the job---if you pay attention.

[Iggo]

27. Ah-choo!

Sorry. I'm allergic.

[magical thyme]

29. um, in my "right to work" state they can fire without cause and without notice

just sayin'

[dead_head]

42. I understand

But I worked in a call center that was abusing it's employe to the point where most of the people I was with in my training had a burn out.

It was an union job and it was harder to get fired. obviously people abused the system but I understood how a doctor's note can help people to abuse the system too.

When I saw the same people go on sick leave each spring, I thought something weird was up. When a dude told me that it was sooo easy to get a doctor's note when you knew the doctor, I realized a doctor's note not a ultimate proof of honesty.

[kcr]

44. So, the only defense is to cause problems for other people?

There's no fun and games about requiring people to go to a doctor who otherwise have no business going there and endangering ohter people.

[catbyte]

47. Then tell employees abusing the system to shape up, can them, or review your work environment.

Employees who are well treated don't usually abuse benefits.

[laundry_queen]

51. If your employees are trying to 'scam' your system

you are paying them too little. Employers often don't take into account the amount of money lost every year from employees trying to make up for shitty wages by slacking, taking extra sick days, taking off for home a minute (or 5) early, grabbing some copier paper or pens. etc. etc. etc. etc. Your MBAs in your company suck if they can't figure that shit out.

[Kalidurga]

57. I worked with someone like that

He called in at least once a week. His grandmother died like 4 times. He took 2 hour lunch breaks and when he wasn't on break he wasn't really working that much anyway. Yet, no one could find a reason to fire him for about 6 months. So, really the problem is that if someone calls in like that all the time they are probably a horrible employee in so many other ways. I would count the office supplies if I was their boss, just sayin.

Your only defense is not a doctors note from the 95% of employees that don't abuse the system. Your defense is to get a doctors note from this employee because you are concerned about his or her chronic condition.

[Luminous Animal]

59. Really. Do people get 52 sick days a year in Canada? No they do not.

[Brickbat]

64. "So, your only defense is requiring a doctor's note."

It's like taking a day off a week isn't affecting their work quality at all. Sounds like a management problem, to me.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

68. You should have checked with their previous employers

for their work history before hiring them and this is best done with a phone call.

[moriah]

71. I've been fired for being sick, what do you mean you can't do that?

I'm not just talking once, either. And I had medical documentation, plenty of it.

[Sanity Claws]

79. You can fire them for absenteeism

FMLA only applies to serious illnesses and medical notes are required to substantiate the illness. It also applies only to employees who have been with the employer for over a year and the employer has at least 50 employees
Accordingly, your comment strikes me as fatuous.

[Heidi]

81. If you as an employer require a doctor's note, you shouldn't mind paying for it.

Cost of doing business and all.

[Cal Carpenter]

90. It's so refreshing to hear *management's* side of the story for a change

[Pacifist Patriot]

95. Any employer who can't treat employees like adults, and deal with....

the exceptions on an individual basis, is too lazy or stupid to be an employer.

[Brigid]

9. I kept waiting for the good doctor to say,

"This isn't elementary school."

[Veilex]

13. I can't rec this enough.

[RobinA]

14. I've Often Thought

this Dr's note bull is one reason people come to work sick. I know I don't go to the Dr if I have a cold or some other transient illness. Usually there is nothing he can do. I end up figuring that if I can drag myself to the Dr's office I can drag myself to work

[HockeyMom]

15. If you get x number of paid sick days a year,

and you cannot carry them over to next year, you just never use them? Kinda stinks for employees who don't get sick, doesn't it? I used them as my own personal days. At the Non-Profit for the MR/DD where I worked (15 sick days/year), everyone jokingly called it "staff mental health days". Nothing was said. School district where I later worked was fine until they institued their Wellness program and THEY wanted a doctor's note. One time I flat out said to them that I need to get the hell out of Florida and go back to NY to see my family. MY "mental health" time off. Sure, ok, fine, they told me. Just make sure you get a Sub.

Edit: Also, what about when your FAMILY is sick? If your spouse has just had a heart attack, does HIS doctor have to write YOU a note for taking off from work?

[SheilaT]

20. I once left behind over 100 unused sick days

because I'd worked at the place for ten and a half years and was almost never sick. And there was no payout, not even a partial one for the unused sick days. I would never again do that. I would use up sick leave that would otherwise go to waste. Fortunately, my most recent job I did get paid out for unused leave time.

[Freddie]

33. Me too

Lost over 400 hours of sick time when I left my last job. DH's company gives them 5 sick days/year (plus vacation & holidays); the sick days are "use it or lose it" so he takes a mental health day periodically.

[csziggy]

39. My husband lost weeks of sick leave time at his job

Then his manager told him that he could use it to take care of family members. So he used it when he had to take me to the doctor or when he had to take time off to take care of me after one of my numerous operations. He could have done that in the years previous, but none of his managers or the HR department told him. They didn't make him get notes from my doctors - but they had known for months that my operations were scheduled.

Right now he has over a week of sick leave and two weeks of vacation time accumulated. Fortunately, his employer does cash out accumulated leave time so he will end up with a nice bonus check when he retires at the end of the year!

[Horse with no Name]

58. or if you work for a company that gives you 8 sick days as a benefit

then fire you when you use 4...LOL

[Skittles]

74. who did your work when you weren't there?

15 days a year seems excessive to me - who gets sick that often?

[gopiscrap]

17. Business does not care about people

just profits...that's why we need tight controls and curbs on all for profit businesses!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

22. So I need to go to the doctor every 28 days for a normal function?

I've been through menopause but during my reproductive years I had disabling cramps 13 times a year (lunar months, not solar ones). So because a normal bodily function is disabling me I have to go to the doctor and show him a bloody pad? He's not going to be able to objectively test me for how much pain I'm in anyway, just because I also feel like a wet dishrag and can barely get up the strength to walk.

[B2G]

24. I don't know how Canada does it, but

Every doctor's office I have ever been to has a form letter ready to provide to you if needed. You also have receipts, both financial and diagnostic that employers will accept. This is not a big deal.

Where the problem comes in is when you're too sick to go to work, but not sick enough to go to a doctor.

[SpankMe]

35. Yes, it is a big deal...

...owing to the quantity of people who would need this note - pre-printed form letter or not.

Most people who have basic colds/flus, etc. are not sick enough to see a doctor. And this is the case for a vast, vast majority of all sick-call-ins. By requiring a note for every sick-call-in, the doc is saying that the employees are putting themselves and other patients in the clinic at risk for spreading virus by traveling unnecessarily to the doctor's office for something as trivial as a note. He's saying these people should stay put and rest and drink lots of liquids.

[Iggo]

38. The problem is, they want people to go to a doctor to prove they have a cold.

That's fuckin' stupid.

[Humanist_Activist]

41. What I don't get is that excess absenteeism is dealt with by standard attendance policies...

generally, if you have a chronic condition, then you employer will already be aware of that, and if its something like a cold and you only miss a few days every year or so, its not a big deal. My employer doesn't require a doctor's note unless you are absent more than 3 days in a row.

[winterwar]

31. good for him

Well played sir

[chrisa]

37. I've never had to do this, but I've heard of places doing it. First thought: Are we kindergartners?

If we're not kindergartners, and are indeed adults, why the hell would we have to get a doctors note? Not only is the practice archaic and a strain on the healthcare system, it's also treating your workers like children.

Most places combine sick days with vacation days now, so there's no reason to do this.

[Hekate]

45. That doctor's note is perfection. nt

[Ilsa]

49. That's a great doctor's note!

I'd go to the doctor once. Then scan the note's logo into my computer to enable me to write a note the next time I need one. Yeah, I could get fired for it if caught via company insurance. But if I don't have company insurance, they can't look it up.

[yeoman6987]

52. Bigger problems in the World

I work for the federal government and we have to have one after 3 days. Not sure if it is all federal government or just Naval Academy.

[justgamma]

53. Funny story about a doctor's note.

Hubby broke ankle and had surgery. His job called for a lot of walking. While in a cast, HR kept calling Dr. to see when he could come back. Dr. got fed up and when hubby could go back to work, Dr. asked him if he wanted another 6 weeks off just to piss employer off.
Hubby didn't take it, but I would have.

[daredtowork]

55. I had to do this for Bank of America

It cost me $50 dollars out of pocket because I had to go to an ER in order to see a doctor while I was still sick. Which meant leaving the house while I was still sick instead of staying in bed. But I was afraid if I didn't do it, I would be fired.

[Historic NY]

60. One of my Dr.s charges a fee and says it could take up to 2 weeks

...for it to be ready.

[niyad]

63. good for that doctor.

[Boomer]

65. So glad my employer is more enlightened

We get a generous PTO (Paid Time Off) allotment of so many hours. The company doesn't care what we use it for -- vacations, falling sick, ice on the road, just don't feel like coming in to work that day -- as long as we provide sufficient notice. And "sufficient" can be by 8am of the day we go MIA. We can take a day, half a day, a few hours as needed.

My co-workers are without exception responsible, highly motivated and good at their jobs. We work hard, we go the extra mile for our customers. We are adults and manage our time, balancing personal and professional, and the company is prospering.

Treat your employees like worthwhile human beings and you'll get the cream of the crop working for you.

[AngryOldDem]

80. "Treat your employees like worthwhile human beings..."

Why is this so hard for most employers to understand? Why do they not get that treating people badly is not the way to run a business?

[pipi_k]

87. Best

company I ever worked for as far as sick time goes had a very liberal policy.

We were trusted to keep and fill out our own little time sheets each week. We had flex time. There were lots of times I went in on a holiday when nobody else was around. We could apply our overtime hours toward extra "sick" time, or apply it toward overtime pay.


I compare that to another place I worked where the owners were so distrustful that we had to fill out requests in triplicate to get a stinking bottle of whiteout from the supply closet.

[47of74]

94. Mine is too

We don't have a set allotment of sick hours. We've been told if we're sick to stay home and rest and take the time to recover. I used to be a supervisor & for my part I'd rather sick employees stay home and rest instead of coming in and working ill. First because it's the right thing to do and secondly so we don't have a cold or flu wave passing through the office.

[KyleMcShades]

66. My Horror Story:

When I worked in retail, I one day had a terrible neck pain. I don't know what you would call it, but lets just say it felt like someone was stabbing my neck with a knife. I considered it a 10 on the pain chart. I was screaming in pain. It was so bad I couldn't sleep, and hadn't slept for at least 30 hours.

I called in sick in desperation, and the lower level manager said it was fine. So I FINALLY got to sleep, only to be interrupted by a phone call from the higher management, and they told me they didn't believe I was sick (take note that this is only the third time in more than 2 years that I ever called in sick) and that I had to come into work to prove that I really was in pain. It was difficult for me to move, I had to get my dad to come over to help me dress. I couldn't take a shower. I was screaming in pain on the way to work. When I got there they made me work for about 20 minutes until they finally "agreed" I really was sick.

They told me I could go home BUT I would have to bring a doctor's note JUST to be sure I wasn't faking or something (They requested a doctor's note for each day I was out). I ended up having to go to the emergency room. When I came back to work they made sure to verify it.

Also, it's worth mentioning the absurdity of the $1000 bill I got just for morphine (Something I may not have needed if I wasn't interrupted after finally getting to sleep). This was WITH insurance. Thanks America.

The abuse that low income workers experience in the United States never ceases to astound me. This is not freedom.

[Skittles]

72. worthy of its own thread

I have never worked retail but have heard the horror stories

welcome to DU, KyleMcShades

[NewDeal_Dem]

70. Kudos to the doc. If only more people did things like this.

[PatrickforO]

75. We have recently entered an environment of nearly full employment.

What this means to employers is that if they continue weenie policies like this and continue treating employees as if they were children, they will lose good employees.

Remember, in a full-employment environment people who don't like the way they are treated will simply find another job.

Down with weenie policies!

[DesertDiamond]

76. APPLAUSE from me too! This was a very huge complaint I had with the call center I worked with until

the beginning of 2014. Every time I had the flu I had to go sit in the icy cold chairs in the urgent care room, too ill to sit up and really too ill to drive, but really not in need of any medication stronger than soda crackers. While I should have been home sleeping and drinking fluids, what was I doing? Sitting in those hard, cold chairs waiting for the doctor to give me a note proving I wasn't spending my sick leave going fishing. This not only impeded my recovery and exposed others to my flu, but it also cost me $90.00 out of my Health Savings Account, and later when I actually needed that money for a real medical issue it wasn't there. All spent on appeasing an employer who treated us as though we were lying, lazy children.

No, this practice is completely stupid and has to end. Thank you, Canadian doctor, whoever you are!

[ctsnowman]

78. K & R

[Enthusiast]

82. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

It does!

[turbinetree]

84. YES

This was and is great

[world wide wally]

86. So, if I took a mental health day, would I need a note from a shrink?

[KamaAina]

93. No.

The laces from your straitjacket would do nicely.

[Odin2005]

91. This is a side effect of corporate bean counters cutting labor costs to the bone.

MBAs who only understand numbers and not the messy realities of HR are in charge. The result is no redundancy if somebody can't come in for whatever reason, and so managers feel pressured to force their sick employees to work.

[blkmusclmachine]

96. ,

,

[McCamy Taylor]

97. It's worse in the US. Companies now require FMLA forms be filled out for ANY sickness of any length.

Have you seen FMLA forms? Pages and pages of documentation for both the patient and doctor. For a simple one day URI. It has got to stop.

[frylock]

99. my former manager would ask for notes from the doctor stating we were healthy enough to come in..

not only that, she did not adhere to the 3-day standard. I was out once for two days, and she sent me home to get that note from my doctor. Naturally, he provided a note confirming that I was legitimately sick with a cold. He was positively befuddled when I explained that the note needed to clear me to go back into work. She tried that again a year later after I had been out sick for two days. I flat out told her that I was not going to the doctor, as I was not contagious. HR was of no help whatsoever.