It's going to happen again

[neverforget]

if we don't prosecute the motherfuckers. If they get away with it now, what's to stop them in the future? Bad publicity?

We have black heart Cheney saying he would do it all over again. Of course he would! He knows that Bush, Tenet, Yoo, Addington and himself are going to get away with ordering the torture of human beings in direct violation of US Law and treaty obligations. It would be unpleasant to the Nation to go through a prosecution but the alternative is to let it happen again. Fuck them.

[JoePhilly]

1. What stopped them last time?

They created a new phrase ... "enhanced interrogation" ... and then they did it.

The RW fascists do not need a precedent. And you are not going to deter the NEXT SET, by prosecuting the LAST set.

Cheney was in the Nixon administration. Nixon was impeached.

What did the Cheney learn? He learned to lie. He learned to hire only loyalists.

Prosecuting THIS Cheney is not going to deter the NEXT Cheney.

I'd love to see THIS Cheney, and THIS Bush punished.

But I have no illusions that doing so would prevent their descendents from following in their path. They will modify their tactics simply because of the blow back we currently see, and that's true no matter what happens to Cheney and Bush now.

[Fumesucker]

2. Nixon was never impeached

He may have been impeached at some point but impeachment proceedings were never formally held because Nixon resigned.

[ColesCountyDem]

12. You're correct.

The articles of impeachment were voted out of the Judiciary Committee for full consideration by the House, but Nixon resigned before they could be debated or brought to a vote of the full House.

[Scruffy Rumbler]

13. Then Gerald Ford pardoned him.

My father had me sit and watch the whole resignation and the pardoning events. He was so angry about Watergate. He said Gerald Ford's pardoning of Nixon would allow for greater misdeeds by the Republicans in the coming years.

[ColesCountyDem]

21. My Dad said virtually the same thing.

My Dad loathed 'Tricky Dick'.

[Scruffy Rumbler]

24. Same here. Dad felt 'Tricky Dick' was a continuation of dirty politics.

Mine was also an early conspiracy theorist .... He did not believe anything that came out of the Warren Commission's report. He felt Gerald Ford's Vice Presidency was his "reward" for his part in the whole affair. I was raised, and not just my family...most people we grew up with, never believed the whole single shooter/ magic bullet theory.

[ColesCountyDem]

27. Dad was a doctor and served for 4 decades as a "coroner's physician" here in IL.

Dad never believed the whole 'lone nut with a gun' thing, either. He did believe that Oswald was a gunman, just not the only gunman.

Dad said that it was clear that President Kennedy's head wound was caused by a frangible bullet, while Oswald's bullets were all jacketed. Given the description of the head wound by the doctors at Parkland Hospital-- descriptions he believed were entirely accurate-- he maintained that from both an objective forensic and a ballistic analysis, President Kennedy was shot from behind by a person using a frangible bullet. By applying Occam's Theorem to the available evidence, he concluded that the Secret Service was likely responsible for the fatal wound, whether by accident or as part of a conspiracy. In either case, if what he concluded was in fact correct, it would explain the Secret Service's behavior at Parkland, when they basically stole President Kennedy's body, as well as any 'changes' to the head wound that were observed by Dr. Hume, et al, at Bethesda.

[2banon]

17. That's right. Nixon was never impeached. He Resigned and then that MF Ford PARDONED him.

And that's partly why prosecution matters.

[ColesCountyDem]

22. I agree. n/t

[Rex]

32. Well what do you expect? Accuracy? Truth?

Trying to carry water for Cheney must be hard work.

[neverforget]

5. I know doing nothing

enables those who would do wrong.

[JoePhilly]

25. Did I say do nothing?

Try reading.

[neverforget]

28. you said

Prosecuting THIS Cheney is not going to deter the NEXT Cheney.

I'd love to see THIS Cheney, and THIS Bush punished.

But I have no illusions that doing so would prevent their descendents from following in their path. They will modify their tactics simply because of the blow back we currently see, and that's true no matter what happens to Cheney and Bush now.

On the one hand you say it won't deter the next set and then you'd love to see them punished and then go on so say that you "have no illusions that doing so would prevent their descendents from following in their path".

Maybe I read it wrong but it sounds to me like you're trying to have it both ways and that's why I said that doing nothing enables those who do wrong.

[JoePhilly]

30. I want them to be punnished, because the deserve to be punnished.

I can want that, and also know quite well that doing so will NOT deter the other RW fascists. They are already changing their tactics based on this situation ... and that is true regardless of what happens to Bush and Cheney.

So yes, you are reading it wrong.

[Rex]

33. Spot on.

[rock]

3. Don't reward people for bad conduct

My wife says that all the time (in a political context).

[Faryn Balyncd]

4. "I'd do it again in a minute"

9:24
"Did the ends justify the means?"

"Absolutely"

This may be the most unrepentant criminal ever interviewed.

[nilesobek]

16. America's Hermann Goering

once again shows his lack of remorse. He's behaving like Goering at Nurenberg.

[JEB]

18. That miserable excuse for human being

is begging for his own rectal feeding.

[neverforget]

23. Yes he is.

[FairWinds]

7. Respectfully disagree with Joe(Philly)

They can only win if we give up.
Don't do that.

[JeffHead]

8. "Verschärfte Vernehmung"

The phrase "Verschärfte Vernehmung" is German for "enhanced interrogation". Other translations include "intensified interrogation" or "sharpened interrogation". It's a phrase that appears to have been concocted in 1937, to describe a form of torture that would leave no marks, and hence save the embarrassment pre-war Nazi officials were experiencing as their wounded torture victims ended up in court.

Straight out of the playbook.

http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158/

[neverforget]

42. Current CIA Director John Brennan used the Enhanced Interrogation Techniques

language in his press conference. They can't even be honest with themselves.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cia-director-john-brennan-addresses-senate-torture-report/

CIA director: True value of enhanced interrogation "unknowable"

CIA director John Brennan said Thursday that the CIA obtained valuable information from detainees who had been subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques (EITs), but the question of whether that information could have been obtained without brutal interrogation sessions was "unknowable."

"We have not concluded that it was the use of EITs within that program that allowed us to obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them. The cause-and-effect relationship between the use of EITs and useful information subsequently provided by the detainee, is, in my view, unknowable," Brennan said at a press conference.

[humbled_opinion]

9. WOW

and setting that example would then open up the Obama admin for crimes against humanity in using its drone program, don't you think?

Let's see the debate would be like this on one side: captured terrorists have water poured up their noses, deprived of sleep and left out in the cold in order to try and get information from them about future attacks and to save American lives. on the other side: Obama doesn't even bother to capture them anymore he sends drones to destroy buildings that have terrorists in them in addition to many innocent civilians who all languish for hours slowly bleeding out or broken and irreparable die a horrible torturous death.

[neverforget]

11. So we don't prosecute because Obama could be prosecuted for something too?

Well then. Our country is fucked if that's the excuse.

[humbled_opinion]

14. If that isn't the reason then

why in the world won't the Obama justice dept prosecute those involved with this obvious law breaking activity?

[neverforget]

19. That shouldn't be the reason

but I'm afraid you may be correct.

[adieu]

10. Woo?

No, oh Yoo! That's who.

[neverforget]

20. Former co-worker of mine went to grade school with Yoo.

Last edited Fri Dec 12, 2014, 02:03 AM - Edit history (1)

He said that Yoo was smart but weird.

[former9thward]

35. I have no use for Yoo

but grade school? Really? Weird in grade school? That is something to be brought up?

[Glassunion]

36. I too went to school with Yoo. We were partnered up in gym class.

He played a mean drum kit.

[valerief]

15. All war is a form torture for people getting hurt. nt

[DinahMoeHum]

26. There IS an alternative. . .

. . .but it's not fit to be mentioned here.

[Cleita]

29. Charging all of them with war crimes is the only way to put an end to this in the future.

For every tin pot dictator who got away with torture and murder, there is a replacement waiting in the wings. Fer chrissakes, why can't people look at history!

[Doctor_J]

31. The fan club doesn't want the president to do anything to anger the republicans

Cause then they might be mean to him.

[Rex]

34. Well you see, throwing a rich person in jail won't deter them from commiting crime in the future

so we shouldn't even try...read it here on DU.

[Skittles]

39. they twist themselves into pretzels with the ridiculous excuses

anything to avoid critical thinking - gawd

[Skittles]

38. oh fuck the Tiger Beat Club

seriously, fuck them all

[Doctor_J]

41. The irony is that if the president had prosecuted Bush & Cheney in 2009, not only would

he have suffered far less abuse from the Repukes, he would also have gained seats in 2010. Bullies don't stop until you hit back. His cowardice has fed the beast.

[Skittles]

43. DAMN RIGHT

they act like he is some kind of innocent bystander

[Skittles]

37. I thought you were referring to Wall Street thieves

[neverforget]

40. Definitely add them to the list to be prosecuted