Welcome to the Democrats' Post-Obama Family Feud

[RiverLover]

Welcome to the Democrats' Post-Obama Family Feud
12/12/2014

t's turning out to be an awkward week for the Dean family. As former Vermont Governor Howard Dean announced Wednesday that he would back a Hillary Clinton presidential bid, the progressive group he founded declared that they were launching a major campaign to coax Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren into the race.

"Some of the other candidates may not be happy about this but they’ll thank us for it later," Jim Dean, executive director of Democracy for America, and Howard's brother, said of the effort to woo Warren. "Part of this is trying to wake the party up." His position couldn't be more different than his brother's, who praised Clinton as a "mature, seasoned, thoughtful leader" in an editorial published by Politico that morning.

As the Jims of the Democratic world are clamoring for an alternative to Clinton, the Howards are racing to line up behind her even though she hasn't decided whether to run. The two powerful women at the center of the discontent, however, are little more than indicators of a far broader family feud over the Democratic party’s future heading into 2016. On one side of the debate are strategists and officials, including some aligned with Clinton, who believe their path to the White House in the post-Obama era rests with wooing centrist, working class voters. To progressive activists, union members, and other parts of the "professional left," as an Obama aide once called them, victory lies in running on an aggressive, populist economic message.

...A major topic in the hallways will be the announcement by liberal groups this week of plans to spend more than a million dollars, including opening offices in the early primary states of Iowa and New Hampshire, trying to convince beloved economic populist Warren to challenge Clinton.

Despite Warren's insistent refrain that she is not running for president, activists see a glimmer of hope. "She's been very consistent in her statements saying she is not running present tense," said Neil Sroka, a spokesman for Democracy for America. "Tense matters."



http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-12-12/welcome-to-the-democrats-postobama-family-feud

"Tense matters." Indeed.

"I'm not running for president" is true, she isn't.

No one is. Yet.

[msanthrope]

1. "Clap for Tinkerbell" is how one great DUer described this phenomena. nt

[RiverLover]

10. I think the ones saying that are the ones doing the clapping for tinkerbell

so that Liz won't run.

Good luck with that.

[MADem]

2. I guess they're glossing over the "I pledge to finish out my term" bit.

Because she can't change that, no matter what tense she uses. Her term ends in 2018.

But hey, whatever...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_politics/the_truth_squad/2013/12/elizabeth_warren_pledges_she_wont_run_for

[BeyondGeography]

4. It's still all about verb tense

She's only pledging in the present tense, you see.

[MADem]

6. Yeah, and that term ends in 2019, actually (Jan).

Tense doesn't abbreviate the years. There's only one finish date to her term.

And then there's this...

http://www.news8000.com/clinton-has-a-49point-lead-in-new-hampshire/29901678

[BeyondGeography]

8. The intelligent thing to do is to stay away this time

And Warren is intelligent. The world is moving her way, but it moves slowly. She'll have a lot more fun and impact by staying put.

[MADem]

14. It is a difficult situation. HRC and EW are close to the same age, though EW has genetics that

make her appear much, much younger. They're a year and 8 months apart, Hillary is the older of the two at age 65. It's pretty much now or never, unless a Republican wins in 16--then there's a shot at 20 but that's probably the end of the line. The job is very wearying, and we do--even though people don't like to admit it--slow down a bit as we age, most of us, anyway. That's probably one of Sanders' biggest hurdles, aside from the fact that he polls in single digits.

I always thought Warren would be a superb fit as Fed Chair. She'd be in her wheelhouse and running the show. I just don't know how much she knows about international affairs; I do know she's got the "money stuff" wired.

[BeyondGeography]

23. Another way to look at it is next time around EW would basically be Reagan's age

when he won in 1980 as a former Democrat "whose party left him." (Oh, think of the glorious irony...Of course, 40 years later, who the hell would care or even remember?). It's a stretch age-wise, but she could still go for it, especially if she stays fit which she gives every appearance of being able to do.

[MADem]

26. She'd have to start taking an interest in international affairs.

There's time, but she is weak in that regard.

I like her in Greenspan's seat better, myself--Chair of the Fed, for MULTIPLE terms, myself, down the years, for more than one President. It would take that long to straighten out the mess we're in.

[merrily]

13. Polls this far out are meaningless. Plus, everyone has been hearing since 2012 that Hillary will win

That HAS to influence Dems being approached by pollsters, especially since no one else has announced unequivocally. (She has not announced either, but I doubt anyone buys the coy act.

As the 2008 primary began, she had at least a 30 point lead over each of Biden, Dodd, Kucinich and Obama. Moreover, whether it was the 2008 primary or her more recent book tour, the more people saw of her, the more her approvals dropped.

[MADem]

15. They're not controlling, but they aren't meaningless. nt

[merrily]

17. Oh, yes they are. This far out, they are, as far as eventual outcomes.

[MADem]

18. Oh fine, whatever you say.

[merrily]

21. LOL, the alternative being whatever you say? (I didn't simply make up the bit about polls.)

[MADem]

22. Sure, sure, polls are "meaningless" because you say so. Whatever....

[djean111]

9. Didn't Obama say that, too? Anyway, the notable thing, to me, is that many Dems

just do not want Hillary. Making this entirely into a "If we can get rid of Warren as a candidate then those lefty Hippies will clamber on to the Hillary wagon" is not, IMO, seeing the bigger picture. More and more, I am getting the feeling that Hillary won't declare unless and until the nomination is a done deal.

[MADem]

16. Ah, but many Dems DO want her--far more than want any other candidate. nt

[djean111]

24. Then, they should all relax, and save the energy expended in thinking about Warren, n'est ce pas?

Wonder why the Hillary folks even bother posting about Warren, taking potshots at her supporters. Not like they are actually going to win any more enthusiasm for Hillary, and may even be doing more harm than good. Seems a waste of time.

[MADem]

25. Who is "taking potshots" at Warren or her supporters?

Most people here like Warren just fine. The only people I see squawking about Warren are those that invent strawmen and then knock them down, playing victim the whole way.

She's an adult, she can take care of herself. I think she knows her own mind. I watch her actions, formally, in writing, disavowing that "Ready For Warren" fundraising group in no uncertain terms, and I watch her words, saying she is not running and she's finishing her term, and well, I think she's telling the truth.

It doesn't matter what DU thinks anyway--frankly, if DU likes the candidate, they're as likely to be toast as win. Kerry got knocked down, they loved Obama just ONCE (the second time they wanted to impeach him), so really--I'm not using DU as the litmus test for a successful Democratic candidate. Hell, even a halfassed national pollster would probably do better picking a winner.....

[steve2470]

33. +1 nt

[merrily]

19. She thought it was a done deal last time.

However, I don't think people like Reid and Pelosi actually wanted her because they thought she had too much baggage. This time, they may be in her corner, though. Sure seems like it.

[MADem]

37. The notable thing to me is that many Dems DO.

Ready for Hillary has raised a bundle, and they have donation limits.

No one is getting "rid" of Warren. She's not jumping in.

Why not let the Senator do what SHE wants, instead of making her a passive player in all this, who is pushed around and "gotten rid of" by the PTB?

Maybe she Does. Not. Want. To. Run. After the shit she took in the MA senate race, who could blame her? She hasn't had the experience of taking shit for eight years as FLOTUS, or taking shit for eight years as D-NY, or taking shit as (Benghazi!!!!!!! Cankles!!! Benghazi!!!!) SECSTATE, either. Or taking shit in private life. It takes a lot of scar tissue before you no longer feel the slings and arrows.

[merrily]

3. No one ever fudges about this.

Senator Obama said he would not run in 2008--too soon. He had to find his way to the Senate cloak room first. But then, according to Daschle, Daschle and others got hold of Obama and pointed out that his record might be used against him if he waited, just as (in Daschle's opinion, Daschle's record cost him the primary).

Until today, Hillary's been saying she hasn't made up her mind about running. No one here seems to believe that, even a little. They all assume she will run, regardless of what she's been saying, and some even assume that she's the inevitable winner. (Deja vu.)

But, let someone so much as post, "I wish Warren would run" and many of the the responses get downright ugly.

Hmmm.

[RiverLover]

7. +1 nt

[MADem]

11. Warren waved off the fundraising group.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/08/22/elizabeth-warren-slams-door-shut-2016-run-disavowing-ready-warren-group.html


Hillary has NOT waved off "Ready for Hillary." https://www.readyforhillary.com/updates/news

That's probably a key indicator.

Also, Warren's being told by her own deep pocketed friends, who bankrolled her (not easy) Senate fight, to not do it.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/30/elizabeth-warren-s-biggest-donors-say-she-d-be-out-of-her-mind-to-run-for-president.html

[merrily]

12. I am not saying she will run, nor am I saying that she won't run.

[bahrbearian]

29. She doesn't even have to run to scare them, but I hope she does.

[merrily]

30. I hope a lot of Dems run. Right now, my fave Dem candidate is ABH. (Anyone But Hillary.)

[JaneyVee]

5. Thus family feud is good for democracy.

[geek tragedy]

20. "Tense matters" =

[fadedrose]

27. Last night Howard Dean was on Lawrence's show

and he went on about how Warren knows more about Wall Street and finance than anyone in the Senate. He likes her. I can tell.

His praise of Warren may get him into trouble with the Hillary people, but it was good to hear. I'd almost given up on him. He was one of my heroes and the list gets smaller daily..

[MADem]

31. I think he likes her because she's good. I think Hillary likes her because she's good.

I think she likes Hillary because Hillary's good, and EW signed the Run Hill Run letter.

I think HRC and EW like each other a lot more than some might want to allow.

In Spring, the primary season will begin, it would seem, and then we're off to the races....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-begins-weighing-details-of-a-2016-bid-with-a-spring-announcement-likely/2014/12/11/088bccac-80a5-11e4-9f38-95a187e4c1f7_story.html

[Autumn]

28. Tense does matter, words matter, votes matter.

Rec

[KoKo]

32. Whether she runs or not....the support for her and the money spent to

urge her to run will be a thorn in Hillary's side to wake her up to the LEFT of the party who have been ignored and in many cases insulted even when our Activism gave us control of the House and Senate in 2006 making Pelosi the first Female Speaker of the House. Then the Activists were forgotten about. Anti-Iraq Invasion voters and those who could see that "Two America's" had formed during the Reagan through Clinton years were gradually moved "under the bus."

The loss of John and Elizabeth Edwards really hurt the Dem Party because while Edwards was not quite the liberal man his handlers pushed him as, (his wife was), and that whole sordid scandal crushed what would have been a chance of the Left having a candidate who at least spoke as if he understood the poverty rising in America. The small donations Edwards got from Teachers, Hospital Workers and the rest of the "common working people" were incredible. His "Two America's" campaign slogan was the forerunner of "One Percent vs. the Rest of Us" theme of Occupy Wall Street.

The Left's support for Elizabeth Warren is important for the health of the Party going forward. That we don't have any candidate except Hillary Clinton (Clinton II) on the Democratic side is a sign of sickness in the party that no one has been groomed because Hillary was the spare and heir and Obama didn't do the kind of party building most Presidents would attempt to do because he was occupied with Bank Giveaways and defending ACA. In his second term he is occupied with War. And, it wasn't in his nature, it seems, to glad handle for political purposes. He would promote himself.....but, not others who would be groomed to hand the baton to. And, that also might have been in part because Hillary was always the assumed heir and there was little he could or would do to change that.

[Capt. Obvious]

34. Wow

I only see a few responses to this OP

[KoKo]

35. Well..it's improved a bit.....

And, it's probably worth a visit for the Night Crowd.

[KoKo]

36. Hi! You Never Answered my John Edwards Post...............

AND........would like your opinion, of WHAT he meant to the Dem Party ...when he and Elizabeth Ran?