Hillary with a 30 point lead!!!!!!!!

[Logical]

Over Obama in October 2007!!!

On the Democratic side, Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York continues to gain support and build on her lead. She led Sen. Barack Obama by 23 points last month -- 46 percent to 23 percent. She now leads the Illinois senator by 30 points -- 51 percent to 21 percent.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/16/schneider.poll/index.html

No one can lose a 30 point lead like Hillary!

[PoliticAverse]

1. She might hire some competent people to run her campaign this time. n/t

[still_one]

3. Like saying McCain would be better than Obama was perhaps her biggest blunder

[C Moon]

65. Ouch. She said that? That's really bad. Really bad. Really, really bad.

I hated the tears during the interview. It came off so fake.

[still_one]

70. Almost. Discussing an international crisis she said McCain would be better dealing with it

Over to Obama or something to that effect

I will try and find a link

[still_one]

72. ok, here was the exact expert, not as much hyperbole as I gave, but still pretty bad

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/04/clinton-mccain-has-more-e_n_89758.html


"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

It was her mean-spirited campaigning against Obama that hurt her the most

I wouldn't doubt if Lanny Davis and associates were the motivation behind it

[C Moon]

75. She should have left out McCain...

she was trying to make Obama look insignificant, I think.
Thanks for the link!

[VanillaRhapsody]

2. and she has a 55 point lead right now....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Which has shown a longstanding polling trend by the way...

[Logical]

5. I am confident she can blow this one also. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. like she did when she was elected in New York....against the odds by the way...

[H2O Man]

10. Respectfully disagree.

There were not odds favoring Little Ricky when she ran in NYS. She was replacing Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and that was a very safe seat for Democrats.

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. Safe seat for Democrats yes...but they thought SHE wouldn't be able to win...and thought she would

be seen as sort of a carpetbagger....

[H2O Man]

14. The only people

that ever called her that were republicans. No democrats were upset or angry that she moved to this state. Robert Kennedy did something quite similar in 1964.

I was there the day Hillary visited Moynihan's farm at Pinder"s Corners, then made her announcement and gave her first speak at the State University in Oneonta. There was zero opposition to her among democrats. And it was as safe an election contest as is possible.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. BUT it was thought that her opposition would turn out to defeat her BECAUSE she was Hillary Clinton

that failed..

that's what I am talking about....they attacked her character then too...

[H2O Man]

19. That's simply not accurate, at all.

The republicans attacked her, of course. No one would have seriously expected them to endorse her. But the numbers in NYS never -- not for even a split-second -- suggested anything but an easy win for her.

[VanillaRhapsody]

20. hmmm not how I remember it....but then I didn't live in NY....

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=122553&page=

Not as easy as you claim...

[PoliticAverse]

24. She began with a significant lead in polling, but by the time Giuliani pulled out it was

about even.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York,_2000

[Major Hogwash]

78. You should never say "Giuliani pulled out".

He has kids that can read.

[rhett o rick]

55. What character does H. Clinton-Sachs have? She embraced Georgie Bush and helped him

promote his war. The biggest disaster this country has seen for centuries. She has zero character, she has zero integrity.

H. Clinton loves the Bush family. I guess if you love the Bush family, you'll love H. Clinton.

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. THIS character and THIS integrity.....(if only you had a smidge...you would stop repeating this

Rightwing trope!)

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale)

Lift ban on stem cell research to cure devastating diseases: Favors topic 1
Respect Roe v. Wade, but make adoptions easier too: Favors topic 1
Alternatives to pro-choice like forced pregnancy in Romania: Strongly Favors topic 1
Must safeguard constitutional rights, including choice: Favors topic 1
Remain vigilant on a woman’s right to chose: Favors topic 1
Keep abortion safe, legal and rare: Favors topic 1
Being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion: Favors topic 1
Supports parental notice & family planning: Opposes topic 1
No abortion for sex selection in China: Opposes topic 1
Voted liberal line on partial birth & harm to fetus: Favors topic 1
Endorsed Recommended by EMILY's List of pro-choice women: Favors topic 1
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record: Strongly Favors topic 1
Expand embryonic stem cell research: Favors topic 1
Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women: Favors topic 1
Sponsored bill for emergency contraception for rape victims: Favors topic 1
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance: Strongly Favors topic 1
Provide emergency contraception at military facilities: Favors topic 1
Ensure access to and funding for contraception: Favors topic 1
Focus on preventing pregnancy, plus emergency contraception: Favors topic 1
NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP: Favors topic 1
NO on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime: Favors topic 1
YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives: Favors topic 1
NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions: Favors topic 1
YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines: Favors topic 1

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Some world leaders are still misogynistic: Favors topic 2
Some world leaders are still misogynistic: Favors topic 2
We’ve come a long way on race, but we have a long way to go: Strongly Favors topic 2
Apologize for slavery, but concentrate on civil rights now: Favors topic 2
Human rights are women’s rights: Neutral on topic 2
Women’s rights are human rights: Favors topic 2
OpEd: "18 million cracks" meant "lingering sexism": Strongly Favors topic 2
Equal pay is not yet equal: Strongly Favors topic 2
1988: Instituted gender diversity Report Card within ABA: Strongly Opposes topic 2
Argued with Bill Clinton about diluting affirmative action: Strongly Favors topic 2
Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all: Neutral on topic 2
Sponsored bill maintaining role of women in armed forces: Favors topic 2
Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance: Strongly Favors topic 2
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery: Strongly Favors topic 2
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment: Strongly Favors topic 2
Reinforce anti-discrimination and equal-pay requirements: Favors topic 2
Ban discriminatory compensation; allow 2 years to sue: Favors topic 2
Sponsored bill enforcing against gender pay discrimination: Strongly Favors topic 2

Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)

Increase America’s commitment against Global AIDS: Favors topic 3
I re-evaluated & changed my mind on gay marriage: Favors topic 3
DOMA discrimination holds us back from a more perfect union: Strongly Favors topic 3
I support gay marriage personally and as law: Strongly Favors topic 3
Let states decide gay marriage; they’re ahead of feds: Favors topic 3
2004:defended traditional marriage; 2006:voted for same-sex: Strongly Favors topic 3
Federal Marriage Amendment would be terrible step backwards: Favors topic 3
Gays deserve domestic partnership benefits: Strongly Favors topic 3
Military service based on conduct, not sexual orientation: Favors topic 3
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes: Strongly Favors topic 3
Rated 89% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance: Strongly Favors topic 3
Provide benefits to domestic partners of Federal employees: Strongly Favors topic 3
YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes: Strongly Favors topic 3
NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage: Strongly Favors topic 3

No opinion on topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(0 points on Social scale)

Partner with faith based community in empowerment zones: Strongly Favors topic 4
Tap into churches to avoid more Louima & Diallo cases: Favors topic 4
Community involvement helps, but only in short term: Favors topic 4
Link payments to good parenting behavior: Opposes topic 4
Allow student prayer, but no religious instruction: Opposes topic 4
Character education: teach empathy & self-discipline: Favors topic 4
Change what kids see in the media: Favors topic 4
Co-sponsored bill to criminalize flag-burning: Favors topic 4
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-Family-Value voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 4
Rated 100% by the AU, indicating support of church-state separation: Strongly Opposes topic 4
NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration: Opposes topic 4

Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Outcry if AIDS were leading disease of young whites: Favors topic 5
Lower costs and improve quality and cover everybody: Strongly Favors topic 5
Supply more medical needs of families, & insure all children: Strongly Favors topic 5
Medicare should be strengthened today: Favors topic 5
Smaller steps to progress on health care: Favors topic 5
Guaranteed benefits & focus on prevention: Neutral on topic 5
2006: If I can't do universal coverage, why run?: Strongly Favors topic 5
Universal health care will not work if it is voluntary: Strongly Favors topic 5
Universal health care coverage by the end of my second term: Strongly Favors topic 5
We need a uniquely American solution to health care: Favors topic 5
Health care initiatives are her first priority in Senate: Strongly Favors topic 5
Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care: Favors topic 5
Invest funds to alleviate the nursing shortage: Favors topic 5
Let states make bulk Rx purchases, and other innovations: Opposes topic 5
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record: Strongly Favors topic 5
Preserve access to Medicaid & SCHIP during economic downturn: Strongly Favors topic 5
NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium: Favors topic 5
NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit: Favors topic 5
NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit: Opposes topic 5
YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics: Favors topic 5
YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug: Strongly Favors topic 5
YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D: Favors topic 5
NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000: Opposes topic 5
YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D: Favors topic 5
YES on overriding veto on expansion of Medicare: Favors topic 5

Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale)

1997: Hillary warned against privatizing Social Security: Strongly Opposes topic 6
Soc.Sec. one of greatest inventions in American democracy: Strongly Opposes topic 6
Social Security protects families, not just retirees: Strongly Opposes topic 6
All should join the debate now to preserve future solvency: Opposes topic 6
Create Retirement Savings Accounts: Favors topic 6
Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 6
NO on establishing reserve funds & pre-funding for Social Security: Opposes topic 6

Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale)

OpEd: Common Core recycled from Clintons in 1980s and 1990s: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Fully fund special education & 21st century classrooms: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Supports public school choice; but not private nor parochial: Opposes topic 7
Vouchers drain money from public schools: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Fight with Gore for public schools; no voucher “gimmicks”: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Charter schools provide choice within public system: Opposes topic 7
Vouchers siphon off much-needed resources: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Parents can choose, but support public schools: Opposes topic 7
Supports public school choice and charter schools: Favors topic 7
Solemn vow never to abandon our public schools: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Offer every parent Charter Schools and public school choice: Opposes topic 7
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes: Strongly Opposes topic 7
YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors: Opposes topic 7
YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors: Opposes topic 7
YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies: Opposes topic 7

Strongly Opposes topic 8:
No 'rights' to clean air and water
(+5 points on Social scale)

$5B for green-collar jobs in economic stimulus package: Opposes topic 8
Voted against and consistently opposed to Yucca Mountain: Strongly Opposes topic 8
Scored 100% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection: Strongly Opposes topic 8
Remove PCBs from Hudson River by dredging 200 miles: Opposes topic 8
Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes: Strongly Opposes topic 8
EPA must do better on mercury clean-up: Opposes topic 8
Grants for beach water pollution under Clean Water Act: Opposes topic 8
Strengthen prohibitions against animal fighting: Strongly Opposes topic 8

Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)

Longtime advocate of death penalty, with restrictions: Strongly Favors topic 9
Address the unacceptable increase in incarceration: Opposes topic 9
Mandatory sentences have been too widely used: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Give kids after-school activities to prevent gangs: Opposes topic 9
Spend more time with kids to prevent violence: Opposes topic 9
Supports citizen patrols & 3-Strikes-You’re-Out: Favors topic 9
Supports “Three Strikes” and more prison: Strongly Favors topic 9
End hate crimes and other intolerance: Favors topic 9
Require DNA testing for all federal executions: Opposes topic 9
Increase funding for "COPS ON THE BEAT" program: Opposes topic 9
Reduce recidivism by giving offenders a Second Chance: Strongly Opposes topic 9
YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program: Opposes topic 9

Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Rein in idea that anybody can have a gun anywhere, anytime: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Against illegal guns, crack down on illegal gun dealers: Opposes topic 10
Get assault weapons & guns off the street: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre: Opposes topic 10
Congress’ failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run: Opposes topic 10
Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs: Opposes topic 10
License and register all handgun sales: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Gun control protects our children: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Lock up guns; store ammo separately: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons: Opposes topic 10
Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology: Opposes topic 10
NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence: Strongly Opposes topic 10
NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers: Strongly Opposes topic 10

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Rescind tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 a year: Strongly Favors topic 11
Pay down debt & cut taxes within balanced budget: Favors topic 11
GOP tax plan would hurt New York’s students: Favors topic 11
Rated 21% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes: Strongly Favors topic 11
Rated 80% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on raising the Death Tax exemption to $5M from $1M: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on allowing AMT reduction without budget offset: Favors topic 11
YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates: Favors topic 11
YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction: Favors topic 11
NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years: Strongly Favors topic 11
YES on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends: Strongly Opposes topic 11
YES on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut: Favors topic 11
YES on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends: Strongly Opposes topic 11
NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax: Strongly Favors topic 11

Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+2 points on Social scale)

Introduce a path to earn citizenship in the first 100 days: Strongly Favors topic 12
Consider halting certain raids on illegal immigrant families: Favors topic 12
Deporting all illegal immigrants is unrealistic: Strongly Favors topic 12
Illegal immigrants with driver’s licenses puts them at risk: Opposes topic 12
Oppose granting driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants: Opposes topic 12
More border patrolling on both Mexican AND Canadian borders: Opposes topic 12
Anti-immigrant bill would have criminalized Jesus Christ: Strongly Favors topic 12
Sanctuary cities ok; local police can’t enforce immigration: Favors topic 12
Comprehensive reform to get 12 million out of shadows: Strongly Favors topic 12
Sponsored bill covering child resident aliens under Medicaid: Favors topic 12
Sponsored bill funding social services for noncitizens: Favors topic 12
Rated 8% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities": Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on establishing a Guest Worker program: Favors topic 12
YES on building a fence along the Mexican border: Strongly Opposes topic 12
YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program: Neutral topic 12
NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on comprehensive immigration reform: Strongly Favors topic 12

Favors topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Chief advocate for Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP): Strongly Favors topic 13
TPP agreement creates more growth and better growth: Favors topic 13
Smart, pro-American trade: NAFTA has hurt workers: Strongly Opposes topic 13
No fast-track authority for this president: Opposes topic 13
Defended outsourcing of US jobs to India: Favors topic 13
1980s: Loved Wal-Mart's "Buy America" program: Opposes topic 13
Globalization should not substitute for humanization: Opposes topic 13
Supports MFN for China, despite concerns over human rights: Strongly Favors topic 13
Build a rule-based global trading system: Favors topic 13
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on removing common goods from national security export rules: Favors topic 13
YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam: Favors topic 13
NO on extending free trade to Andean nations: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore: Favors topic 13
YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile: Favors topic 13
NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on free trade agreement with Oman: Strongly Favors topic 13

Opposes topic 14:
Maintain US sovereignty from UN
(-3 points on Economic scale)

US support & no-fly zone, but UN troops on ground in Darfur: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Support UN reform because US benefits: Opposes topic 14
Engage in world affairs, including human rights: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Keep Cuban embargo; pay UN bills: Opposes topic 14
2002 Iraq speech criticized both Saddam and U.N.: Opposes topic 14
2002: Attacking Iraq "not a good option" but authorized it: Favors topic 14
Urged President to veto UN condemnation of Israel: Favors topic 14
Voted against Levin Amendment: it gave UN veto over US: Favors topic 14
Dems believe in fighting terror with cooperation: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Restore habeas corpus for detainees in the War on Terror: Opposes topic 14
YES on preserving habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees: Strongly Opposes topic 14
YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods: Strongly Opposes topic 14
NO on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad: Strongly Opposes topic 14

No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the military
(0 points on Social scale)

There is no safe haven for the terrorists: Favors topic 15
Our troops are stretched; so increase size of military: Favors topic 15
Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Extend reserve retirement pay parity back to 9/11: Favors topic 15
Improve mental health care benefits for returning veterans: Favors topic 15
YES on requiring on-budget funding for Iraq, not emergency funding: Opposes topic 15
YES on limiting soldiers' deployment to 12 months: Opposes topic 15

Strongly Favors topic 16:
More enforcement of the right to vote
(+5 points on Social scale)

Presidents should reveal donations to their foundations: Strongly Favors topic 16
Voter suppression revives old demons of discrimination: Favors topic 16
Stand for public financing and getting money out of politics: Strongly Favors topic 16
Move to public election financing, not banning lobbyists: Strongly Favors topic 16
Verified paper ballot for every electronic voting machines: Favors topic 16
Called for ban on all soft money in 2000 campaign: Favors topic 16
Prohibit 'voter caging' which intimidates minority voting: Favors topic 16
YES on banning campaign donations from unions & corporations: Favors topic 16
YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads: Favors topic 16
NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity: Opposes topic 16
NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress: Strongly Favors topic 16

Favors topic 17:
Stay out of Iran
(+2 points on Social scale)

OpEd: More aggressive than most Dems on foreign policy: Opposes topic 17
Smartest strategic choice is peace: Favors topic 17
Extend peace treaties to Palestinians, Syrians & Lebanese: Favors topic 17
Foreign aid spending is only 1%; lead by remaining engaged: Strongly Favors topic 17
Up to the Iraqis to decide the future they will have: Favors topic 17
Demand Bush to explain to Congress on his plan on Iraq: Favors topic 17
Deauthorize Iraq war, and don’t grant new war authority: Strongly Favors topic 17
Phased redeployment out of Iraq, beginning immediately: Strongly Favors topic 17
Withdraw troops within 60 days after taking office: Strongly Favors topic 17
Voted for Iraq war based on available info; now would not: Favors topic 17
Progressive Internationalism: globalize with US pre-eminence: Favors topic 17
No troop surge: no military escalation in Iraq: Strongly Favors topic 17
Require Congress' approval before military action in Iran: Favors topic 17
YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq: Strongly Opposes topic 17
NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007: Strongly Opposes topic 17
YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008: Strongly Favors topic 17

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

$100B per year by 2020 for climate change mitigation: Strongly Favors topic 18
$100B per year by 2020 for climate change mitigation: Strongly Favors topic 18
Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us: Strongly Favors topic 18
Stands for clean air and funding the EPA: Favors topic 18
Reduce air pollution to improve children’s health: Favors topic 18
Ratify Kyoto; more mass transit: Strongly Favors topic 18
Supports tradable emissions permits for greenhouse gases: Favors topic 18
Keep efficient air conditioner rule to conserve energy: Strongly Favors topic 18
Establish greenhouse gas tradeable allowances: Strongly Favors topic 18
Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence: Favors topic 18
Designate sensitive ANWR area as protected wilderness: Favors topic 18
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025: Strongly Favors topic 18
Let states define stricter-than-federal emission standards: Strongly Favors topic 18
Gas tax holiday for the summer: Opposes topic 18
NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill: Favors topic 18
YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%): Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge: Favors topic 18
YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning: Favors topic 18
YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies: Strongly Favors topic 18

Opposes topic 19:
Never legalize marijuana
(+2 points on Social scale)

Medical marijuana now; wait-and-see on recreational pot: Opposes topic 19
Medical marijuana maybe ok; states decide recreational use: Opposes topic 19
Divert non-violent drug offenders away from prison: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Address drug problem with treatment and special drug courts: Strongly Opposes topic 19
End harsher sentencing for crack vs. powder cocaine: Opposes topic 19
Require chemical resellers to certify against meth use: Favors topic 19

Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Wealthy should go back to paying pre-Bush tax rates: Favors topic 20
Want to restore the tax rates we had in the ‘90s: Favors topic 20
Help people facing foreclosure; don’t just bail-out banks: Strongly Favors topic 20
Minimum wage increases haven’t kept up with Congress’ wages: Strongly Favors topic 20
Co-sponsored bills totaling $502B in spending thru 2005: Strongly Favors topic 20
End Bush tax cuts;take things away from rich for common good: Favors topic 20
Social issues matter; wrong time for tax cuts: Strongly Favors topic 20
Use tax dollars to upgrade infrastructure, not for stadium: Strongly Favors topic 20
America can afford to raise the minimum wage: Strongly Favors topic 20
Just Say No to GOP tax plan: Strongly Favors topic 20
YES on increasing tax rate for people earning over $1 million: Strongly Favors topic 20

[rhett o rick]

57. Elizabeth Warren is fighting Wall Street for the soul of the Democratic Party

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025949314

What's H. Clinton doing? Having tea and crumpets with Goldman-Sachs or maybe reminiscing with the Bush Family about how they fooled the American public about WMD in Iraq.

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. and she SUPPORTS Hillary Clinton!!!

that sort of puts a monkey wrench in your theory that she is soooooo horrid!

[hrmjustin]

17. That is not true.

The polls were very tight before the election. I live in NY and can tell you it was expected to be a close vote.

[H2O Man]

21. Baloney.

Everyone with more than a teaspoon of brains knew she'd coast to victory. NYC is overwhelmingly democrat. And, even in upstate -- which is republican -- all the polling showed her getting significant numbers of republican women's crossover votes. (I was and am active at the Democratic County HQ where I live, and volunteer in three other upstate county HQ. It was never considered a tough fight.)

[hrmjustin]

23. i hope that was not a insult directed at me.

I was in NYC headquarters for weeks in advance and can tell you the polling was close. Most polls had it within 5 percent. The day of the election the republicans had the absentee ballots impounded because they thought it would come down to the paper ballots.

She was the slight favorite and if you ask her campaign team at the time they will tell you it was not cake walk either.

[H2O Man]

82. Her first potential

opponent was Rudy G; this was before he was "America's Mayor." Rudy had been a respexcted federal prosecutor, who had some success as mayor of NYC. His reputation was as a "crime fighter." His goal in 2000 was to use the US Senate as a stepping-stone to the presidency.

I don't make light of anyone's health problems. But the fact is that Rudy & Co knew that Hillary Clinton would destroy him in a campaign. In 2000, Clinton was simply a perfect democratic candidate for Senate. (Although it is unfair to suggest her re-election is "proof" of her power in 2000, it would be inaccurate to suggest that she could have become that powerful in a single term.) A big loss to Clinton would have put a humiliating end to Rudy's hopes to eventually become president. So Rudy withdrew.

Who did the republicans then go to? Little Ricky. They could have found someone stronger, but the NYS republicans were not going to sacrifice anyone "good." That smug little shit was simply not in Clinton's league. Not even close.

The only question that anyone I knew had back then was if Clinton would pursue a long career in the Senate, or use the position to eventually run for president. But, we all believed that, either way, we would benefit greatly. She was simply the perfect person at the perfect time. A lot of us wanted her to run in 2004, in fact.

I apologize if you felt I directed an insult at you. I did not mean to.

[dsc]

88. you are rewriting history just a bit here

Here opponent was supposed to be Guilianni who was at the time still a very popular mayor. It was only his nasty divorce and health issues that derailed him. I think she would have beaten him as well but the notion this was a give me was just not correct.

[H2O Man]

89. No. Not a bit.

See post #82. Not even close to re-writing history. Clinton would have humiliated Rudy.

[PoliticAverse]

13. Well it does help when your main opponent (Rudy Giuliani) pulls out of the race for health reasons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York,_2000

[morningfog]

6. It shows her ceiling. It'll only go down from here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. Unfortunately...everyone else are at least 55 points down!

I'd call that "odds on favorite"!

[morningfog]

9. Odds on favorite in December 2 years out

means absolutely nothing.

Watch as the pool is announce through the first of the year.

Only down to go, she is a known quantity. There is literally no one undecided on Hillary. She has no one left to increase her numbers.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. You keep telling yourself that...

So are you voting for whomever wins the Democratic Primary? I am....how about you???

[morningfog]

15. That has jack shit to do with this conversation.

I almost certainly will vote for the democratic candidate. I have in every election of my life and don't see that changing.

Now that's out if the way, and please mark on you list so you don't waste my time asking me such a dumbass question again.

You can't deny that Hillary is a known quantity. There is no where for her to increase her support. It hasn't changed since 2008.

[VanillaRhapsody]

18. It has EVERYTHING to do with it

it says alot about WHY you say the things you do.....its about your perspective...

If you cannot answer that question affirmatively...then you are a Left Leaning Independent....and THAT is the perspective you are coming to the discussion with.

[morningfog]

22. Oh god. You want to talk about me. I get it.

I'm not loyal enough for you. Wow.

You are a real piece of work.

I am a left leaning independent thinker. Get off your fucking horse. You want to divert every conversation onto someone's loyalty because you can't carry yourself on the facts. I'm a dem. I've always vote dem. You are nothing but insulting. Pathetic.

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. No I asked a simple question....

and it shows WHAT your bias's are....it shows whether or not I am discussing this with another Democrat or not...

If I were say..... some Ayn Rand following Libertarian...wouldn't that say something about what my motivation is? Wouldn't that tell you something about who you were dealing with? "what their "perspective" is and why you should even care what they think?

[morningfog]

28. Still talking about me? Obsessed?

I'll send you a copy of my democratic voter registration signed in blood and a pledge of support until the day I die.

Would you then be able to pull yourself away from me, although I am so flattered, and discuss where Hillary is going to acquire more support?

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. still trying to find out who I am having this discussion with....

I don't need to see you voter registration....I want to read the answer....that is all...why is it you don't seem to want to answer Democrat? I find that odd....

[morningfog]

36. Ew so stalkery.

How many times have I told you I am a democrat and always vote democrat? You are very insulting, rude and creepy.

[Autumn]

45. You have a new friend.

here are just a FEW of the threads that she has followed me around in.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5833824
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=387263
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5830249
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=951158

[Logical]

49. She does the same thing to me.......

She either forgets previous posts or just wants to ignore them so she can whine.

I told her I would vote for Hillary if she wins, bit would do all I can to stop Hillary from winning.

But she still whines I am not a democrat.

In other words, if you don't support Hillary in the primarys you are not a democrat.

[progree]

56. Have you no sense of decency? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?

-Joseph Welch, replying to Joseph McCarthy, 1954, at the Army-McCarthy Hearings

Of course this isn't directed at you, Logical. It's just what comes to mind when I read this subthread, or threads and subthreads much like this (thanks Autumn in #45 for a short sample list), and a certain person in this subthread starts impugning people's loyalty to Democrats (often with no basis whatsoever, as is the case here) when someone disagrees with him or her. I've seen this sick pattern many times.

[font color = red]On Edit:[/font] Bold-faced the "Of course this isn't directed at you, Logical" in case someone might miss it on a quick read. It was meant in support of you and others that feel the same way about that person's McCarthyite tactics

[Logical]

61. Well, I don't think she's a good candidate......

So I guess I could keep my mouth shut and let people think that she's a done deal. But I'd rather have a real primary.
Remember, The Democratic primary candidates will be tearing each other up here shortly.
So save your quote above for them.

[progree]

64. Please see #56 where, on edit, I bold-faced "Of course this isn't directed at you, Logical."

It was meant in support of you and a number of others in this subthread who are tired of having their Democratic loyalties endlessly questioned without any basis whatsoever by someone who resorts to that tactic when losing the argument.

Remember, The Democratic primary candidates will be tearing each other up here shortly.
So save your quote above for them.

[Logical]

85. I am so sorry......

It was late and I didn't read it correctly! I apologize!

[progree]

87. Hey no problem at all! Thanks!

[Dustlawyer]

59. She's hit me a few times too!

[Joe Turner]

44. Speaking for myself

If Hillary is the nominee, I'm not voting for her. You might as well vote for the Republican candidate because, like the current president, you will get nothing less than a full dose of the Republican agenda.

Let me ask: Why reward the democratic party for running candidates that are virtually indistinguishable from the republicans on foreign policy, the war machine, corporate trade deals, anti-unionism, Laissez-faire wall street regulation, and just letting corporations do whatever they want to do. Sorry, just seen this movie WAY too many times.

[RiverLover]

47. You speak for me as well, Joe. nt

[840high]

54. For me, too.

[Logical]

50. LOL, that is the only argument you have for Hillary I assume? You are a jewel! ngt

[Scootaloo]

26. She's not running, VR

Right now, the three declared Democratic presidential candidates are Jeff Boss, Vermin Supreme, and Robby Wells.

Which of these do you support?

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. hahahahaha...right....keep telling yourself that....

pffffftttttt ....Left Leaning Libertarians are soooo amusing!

[Scootaloo]

32. Well, she's not. OOnly three people have declared their candidacy for the democratic nomination

Jeff Boss

Vermin Supreme

Robby Wells

As of December 12, 2014, these three are your options for a Democratic candidate. They're the only ones running.

So. Which of these three are you pitching for?

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. Which ever wins the Primary....I am good with that....

question is will YOU????

[Scootaloo]

35. The primary's a good way off. Which are you for before then, VanillaRhapsody?

[morningfog]

37. You have to sign his promise before he'll talk to you.

[Scootaloo]

39. Can I sign with headbutts?

[brooklynite]

51. I agree: she's not running now, and neither is Warren

But since I've had the opportunity to see BOTH of them up close in the last few months, I'm perhaps in a better position to say:

Hillary WANTs to run....

Warren DOES NOT

[Scootaloo]

58. Okay. But which of the three DEMOCRARTIC PARTY CANDIDATES do you support?

It's gotta be one of the three. You don't want to be disloyal do you?

[brooklynite]

84. I'll support whomever wins the democratic nomination.....will you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. Oh and if any win the Primary...I vote for them...

you don't seem to understand....I voted for Alvin Greene.....over Jim DeMint...literally!

It was actually one of my favorite moments...I smile thinking about that day! Poor Alvin Greene...Bless his heart!

I would have voted for belly button lint....before Jim DeMint or not voting at all!

[Scootaloo]

38. Well, he did have a persuasive argument.

"I'm the man. I'm the man. I'm the man. Greene's the man. I'm the man. I'm the greatest person ever. I was born to be president. I'm the man, I'm the greatest individual ever."



Wow. How did he... Who... wow.

Just wow. Thanks for bringing this... character to my attention. hoo boy.

[woo me with science]

53. +1 "It'll only go down from here." Spot on, as it has been steadily declining already.

Hillary Clinton’s Lead Continues to Dwindle as Elections Approach
http://presidentialpolls.com/carriere/hillary-clintons-lead-continues-to-dwindle-as-elections-approach/

Warren, Sanders beat Hillary in poll of DFA members
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025852212

Gallup Poll: Hillary Clinton's Favorability Steadily Declining
http://americanlivewire.com/2014-06-11-gallup-poll-hillary-clintons-favorability-steadily-declining/

[elzenmahn]

60. So let's see what "facts" and "figures"...

...that a certain DU member who keeps preaching the "she beats all comers" line until the only place she's blue in is in the face, comes up with to "refute" these numbers.

I'm waiting...I think I hear crickets...

[hrmjustin]

62. Hillary has 65% in the latest poll.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/02/politics/poll-hillary-clinton-mitt-romney-2016/

Yes it is just one poll.

[Fearless]

68. She's not running and neither is anyone else.

Bet you could find the same margin last time before anyone started running.

[Autumn]

4. Okay you guys have it going on

rec

[MiniMe]

30. It means nothing at this point

She leads for the same reason that Romney leads in polls, name recognition. She led big at this point in 2008 too, but she didn't get the nomination

[RiverLover]

43. That's the point the OP is trying to get across to some people here who think Hillary's current

polling lead is relevant.

[doc03]

34. Hillary was a lock back in 2008 remember n/t

[Scootaloo]

41. So was Herman Cain, if I remember correctly

2016, we're gonna see a Biden / Romney showdown.

Possibly Clinton as VP, sure. But both parties like their non-polarizing "sure thing" candidates for the presidency.

[WillyT]

40. LOL !!!

[DonCoquixote]

42. what it does mean is

she has a chance to win and run a different campiaign than what she did last time. However, if she preats the mistakes she made in 2008, she will getb the same results. If he hire a mark penn, or picks a right wing cras type like rahm "the left are retards" Emmanuel, or tries to talk like she willm out war the GOP opponent, she will lose.

[wilsonbooks]

46. But she has the Goldman Sacks vote

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/hillary-clintons-goldman-sachs-problem[link:http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/hillary-clintons-goldman-sachs-problem|

[hrmjustin]

48. As a Hillary supporter i believe she will have to earn the nomination.

Nithing will come on a silver platter.

[RoccoR5955]

52. Why is this ancient history here? n/t

[elzenmahn]

66. Because it illustrates a point regarding...

...how "inevitable" Hillary was in 2008.

The nomination was hers to lose. And she lost it.

[RoccoR5955]

83. Oh, okay

I didn't get that from the OP.

[Jack Rabbit]

63. Terry McAulliffe is too busy being governor of Virgina these days

Do you think she can blow it without his help?

Blowing elections is what Terry McAuliffe does best.

[juxtaposed]

67. i wish her luck, she lost with the same lead last time

[StevieM]

74. That's not even close to correct. See my post right below yours. (eom)

[StevieM]

73. When the race began Hillary was polling in the mid-30s while Obama was polling at about 20 percent.

A lot of people were predicting that Obama would beat her. She moved up her announcement date by several months when Obama decided to run.

Nobody gave Hillary that lead you mentioned--she earned it. (And it was more like 25 points in the average poll taken at the height of her lead). For that matter, nobody was seriously talking about HRC for president when she first came to the Senate. She build up support that she hadn't previously had.

Obama was heavyweight from day one and once he won Iowa it was always going to be a tight race. Iowa is a caucus state, which based on the dynamics of 2008 was more favorable to Obama. An Iowa primary might have produced a different result. The point is that Obama had advantages too and his win in Iowa wasn't a total shock.

At no point in 2007-2008 did Hillary have anywhere close to the lead that she has now. She didn't even have the same lead at the start of the race that Bob Dole started with in 1995, or George W. Bush and Al Gore began with in 1999.

And that comeback in New Hampshire was impressive. The media absolutely buried her in those 5 days and Obama had a head of momentum like I have never seen before.

None of this means that Clinton can't lose in 2016, just that the smug proclamations that she once had a comparable lead, or was considered invincible, are historically inaccurate.

[AtomicKitten]

79. Actual polling that disputes your claim.

Not sure why you are understating Clinton's massive lead in the 2008 Democratic primary - perhaps to downplay her losing that huge lead - but along with the OP's polling results, I have provided actual polling results below.


Jan. 2007 CBC Poll:

C - 45%
O - 28%
Neither - 11%

link: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-democrats-favor-clinton-over-obama/

Oct. 2007 NBC/WSJ:

C - 53%
O - 20%
Edwards - 13%

link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/02/AR2007100202365.html

Dec. 2007 Gallup:

C - 45%
O - 27%
Edwards - 15%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/103351/clinton-maintains-large-lead-over-obama-nationally.aspx

Dec. 2007 Pew

C - 48%
O - 22%
Edwards - 11%

link: http://www.people-press.org/2007/12/03/democratic-primary-preview-iowa-new-hampshire-south-carolina/

[StevieM]

80. I'm not sure what you mean. The polls you just cited seem pretty much in line with what I said.

Hillary had a strong lead, but nowhere close to what she has this time around.

Here is a list of national polls for the 2008 election:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_2008_presidential_candidates

And here is the polling for Iowa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_January_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2008

[AtomicKitten]

81. The point: She had a huge lead then and does now.

I think the point the OP is making is that bragging about polling data now is ridiculous and that is borne out historically.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

76. Let's all remember that the Washington Villagers all claimed it was going to be Hillary vs Rudy.

[MADem]

77. What's the point of this bashing, trashing and mocking post? Can you tell us?

Are you really thinking that your favored candidate, whosoever that might be, is going to be elevated and enhanced by your attempt to shit on this particular Democratic candidate?

You think this kind of discourse is reflective of Democratic and Progressive values?

You might want to rethink that "winning" strategy.

No one likes a snide, mocking bully. You bring down your team when you engage people in this manner.

[Logical]

86. To keep those people who are not excited about Hillary engaged and make them realize that.....

Hillary is not a done deal.

And if I remember right, many of the candidates themselves seem to shit on each other during the primary season. Or do you not remember that.

So I am sure my post on a message board will not hurt Hillary any.

Here is a quote from Hilary in 2007.......

Hillary Clinton told reporters that both she and the presumtive Republican nominee John McCain offer the experience to be ready to tackle any crisis facing the country under their watch, but Barack Obama simply offers more rhetoric. "I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say," she said. "He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002."

So if Hillary can insult Obama I think I am ok insulting Hillary.

[MADem]

90. Who knew you were even running?

So if Hillary can insult Obama I think I am ok insulting Hillary.

What does that even mean?

I guess if you put yourself on the ballot with the candidates, you can eschew the normal constraints of civility on the board, is that it?