When John McCain

[Aerows]

can call you out, with considerable credibility, for after all he knows exactly what it is like to be POW and be subject to torture, you have *lost your way*.

Why in the hell does Obama put himself in a position where even the most feeble of critics can rightly claim that he fails by refusing to prosecute torturers?

Don't blame Republicans - don't blame everyone that is in shock of the horrific things done in our name, no - if you fail to order the AG to prosecute the architects of torture, it's the fault of the man in charge, President Obama. It isn't the fault of everybody else that is outraged over rectal feeding, freezing people to death and TORTURE.

It also isn't the fault of everyone that attempts to defend Obama's failure to prosecute them - but it is their fault for trying to pretend that said failure is moral, right and good for this nation.

It isn't. You know who you are. This isn't pearl clutching, this is a fundamental of civilized society - you DON'T torture, and you don't let torturers get away with it.

[world wide wally]

1. There is nothing we can do about what has already taken place.

However, what we do now will be equally judged and we CAN do something about our behavior as a nation. It's now up to you Mr. Prez

[treestar]

2. You don't know that he "refuses" as you don't have any data from the DOJ

on how many cases there are.

Here are some of the "excuses"

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/pub/2008/ij/HRB_Chuckie_Taylor.pdf

The dearth of cases is due at least in part to the significant
challenges of investigation and prosecution of serious crimes
committed abroad. Analysis of similar cases in Western Europe
suggests that such cases involve major difficulties caused by any
mix of several factors, including language barriers; complex and
unfamiliar political and historical contexts; the need for evidence
that is tough to track down and obtain access to; the importance
of conducting extraterritorial investigations to identify evidence
and witnesses; and having to prove crimes that may never have
been previously adjudicated.

Another challenge relates to the need for witnesses who
may face serious threats if they become involved in a prosecution.
Even though the power to protect witnesses remains with
the authorities in the state where the witness is located, at-risk
witnesses must be monitored by the prosecuting authorities to
ensure they do not face harm. A related issue is that witnesses
brought to testify in the forum state may seek asylum. Witness
testimony can be taken abroad through various measures,
including video link. However, if the witness’s evidence is significant,
and the witness has a well-founded fear of persecution,
due consideration should be given to asylum claims or to ensuring
witness relocation.

[JDPriestly]

4. Ridiculous. What is the point in having international law or national laws against terror

if they cannot be enforced.

Excuses. Excuses.

[treestar]

9. They can but it's not that simple

That was why I posted that. To show that it's not so simple.

[newfie11]

3. Everyone involved should be prosecuted

this is no time to forgive and forget or pretend it didn't happen.
If they get away with it now, this will continue to fester. It will not go away and may be used again someday, possibly on citizens of this country.

[Hekate]

5. The report was published 12/9 -- less than 4 days ago. You all have already shot the messenger, DiFi

In fact the assorted projectile weaponry was aimed at the messenger even before she brought it to the floor of the Senate.

In other words, your minds were made up about her before the first word was spoken, before the first page was read. <-- sarcasm

Likewise with this president. Hang him high. Clearly in collusion.

And why is that? Because in addition to not bringing us unicorns that shit rainbows on Day One in office (remember who it was, while he was taking the oath of office, who swore to block his every move?) he also didn't send the posse for BushCheneyRove while he was signing the Executive Order to stop torture by whatever euphemism the CIA was using. He tried to close Guantanamo too, but apparently it takes an Act of Congress to do that, and well there was that Congressional GOP cabal that had sworn to block him no matter what.

So hang him high.

Here's the thing: Obama is deliberate. He thinks things over for a long time. I agree, sometimes too long. But he thinks, unlike Bush; and he's a man of principle, unlike the Cheney Gang. But all the evidence suggests that he is continually working behind the scenes.

I'd take the current level of hysteria at DU more seriously except for the history of DU anent Obama. On his first week in office I read here that he had thrown every LGBT person in the country under the bus because he didn't eradicate DOMA and DADT. And now they are gone. G.O.N.E.

And then DU was on to the next thing without so much as saying, "Thanks, Obama!" in a sarcastic tone.

DU has little credibility with me any more.

For that matter, my own country has little credibility with me any more, as of this week.

I spent my youth reading about my parents' war. They had a lot of books in the house and I was a reader. Each and every novel, memoir, and history book about WW II is replete with instances of torture by the Axis countries. Sometimes the torture was alluded to (dental drills, anyone?) and sometimes it was graphically described. So kiddies, I understand the depths of depravity to which humanity is capable of falling, and apparently America has so fallen.

You think I am making excuses for anyone? You think I am blind? I'm outraged and disgusted.

But I am not going to shoot the messenger and I am not going to believe that Obama the Deliberative has thrown anyone under the bus without a lot more evidence than 3 or 4 days has shown.

Because I remember as clear as day who brought us to this pass, and it was not Barack Obama.

[GeorgeGist]

6. Sanctimonious much?

[Hekate]

10. More like furious. But think what you like.

[FSogol]

7. Well said, Hekate. Some are overjoyed at getting an opportunity to bash Obama for Cheney/W's crimes

[Aerows]

13. Doing nothing

to prosecute evil is the same as letting evil flourish and become stronger.

[Aerows]

11. I couldn't get past the first couple of sentences.

Where have people shot the messenger? Please point that out to me, because the only people that seem to be upset that we are even talking about this are those who seem to think Obama is so wise, deliberate, careful and good that he must have a strategy.

If he *didn't* have a strategy, knowing exactly what is in the report and knowing for a damn long time what was in it, he's neither wise nor deliberate. He doesn't have a strategy other than "Oh well, we tortured some folks but let's not get sanctimonious about it.

Please tell me, in light of that, who is really "shooting the messenger" and "has made up their minds before seeing the evidence." The fact that the evidence is right there is the reason people are talking about it, and I realize a few here on DU wish we would shut up about it, but that's hardly shooting the messenger.

[Vinca]

8. If there is no prosecution it will happen again . . . guaranteed.

It's as much a sure thing as Wall Street being bailed out by taxpayers again after the Cromnibus passes . . . and, sadly, it will pass. Sadder yet, the POTUS will sign it.

[Aerows]

12. Precisely

Same as another Wall Street bailout. The only thing necessary for evil to flourish in this world is for good men to do nothing.

And that's exactly what the President has done in the face of great evil - done absolutely nothing.