5 Reasons People Are So Wrong About 'Black-on-Black Crime'

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/5-reasons-people-are-so-wrong-about-black-black-crime

1. The term is a racial canard. Of course, it could merely be descriptive, an adjective for a certain kind of crime, like “same-sex domestic-partner violence.” But it’s not. Same-sex domestic-partner violence is distinguished from opposite-sex domestic-partner violence. But “black-on-black crime” has no racial equivalent: nobody talks about white-on-white crime (see 2) or Asian-on-Asian crime. It’s a construct assigned solely to black people, and it interprets their transgression through a purely racial lens. It ranks alongside “the down-low,” a phrase used to refer to black gay men who lead straight lives, only to cheat on their wives with other men. When white men do it, it’s called “Brokeback Mountain”; when black men do it, it gets a special name. The phrase “black-on-black crime” makes sense only if you understand black people’s propensity to commit crimes against people of their own race as inherently different from the way other racial groups commit crimes.

2. In this regard, black criminals are not particularly different. America is very segregated, and its criminality conforms to that fact. So the victims of most crimes are the same race as those who commit them. Eighty-four percent of white people who are killed every year are killed by white people. White people who buy illegal drugs are most likely to buy them from white people. Far from being extraordinary, the fact that black criminals are most likely to commit crimes against black people makes them just like everybody else. A more honest term than “black-on-black crime” would be, simply, “crime.”

3. It is not a taboo. Anyone who seriously thinks that black people are not talking about black people killing other black people just doesn’t know any black people. Black people talk about it a lot. They have a lot to talk about. But while black-on-black crime is a nonsense term, black crime is a serious issue. Black people may not be much more likely to kill members of their own racial group than whites, but they are still more likely to kill and be killed. It’s not as though the black community hasn’t noticed that. Most cities have several black-led organizations confronting this very thing. Nor do black people grieve according to some code of silence. Go to any inner-city church, youth club, park, concert, barbershop, beauty salon or high school basketball game and listen. Every now and then, like last year after Chicago high school student Hadiya Pendleton was shot, they even get a national platform to talk about it. And when they do, they seize it.

4. The police are a special category. That’s the point. Black people are not, by dint of their melanin content, instructed to protect and serve the public; the police, by dint of their employment, are. Black people do not have a monopoly on violence; the police do. So when the people entrusted with upholding the law kill someone, that raises very different issues than if a kid from down the block shoots somebody. When the people who are supposed to protect everybody show an undeniable propensity to kill one group of people more than others (black men aged 15 to 19 are twenty-one times more likely to be shot by police than their white counterparts), that inevitably raises the question of discrimination. Our taxes don’t pay to support black criminals in their pursuit of black victims; they are currently going to support police in the shooting of black people.

[daleanime]

1. Huge K&R...

[Enthusiast]

2. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

Great article!

Black-on-Black Crime is the new radical right, Fox "News", Limbaugh meme. It is especially effective on people predisposed to believe Black people are inherently violent and irresponsible. It is just more propaganda.

Read this article!

[Android3.14]

3. Should we ignore the statistical data?

Shouldn't we be addressing this disparity in much the same manner that we should address other social disparities?

It seems that black-on-black crime is a misnomer, because it is more likely poor-on-poor crime.

(On edit)

I'm not referring to the roughly equivalent comparison of percentages between white-on-white and black-on-black. I'm referencing the black victimization rate (27.8 per 100,000) was six times higher than the white victimization rate (4.5 per 100,000). Black offending rate (34.4 per 100,000) was almost eight times higher than whites (4.5 per 100,000), according to the report.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

33. No, but we should understand it.

Rich people and poor people tend to commit different kinds of crime. Rich people rarely actually mug other people, poor people rarely embezzle millions of dollars. Not because they are 'different' kinds of humans, but because of risk-reward ratios and opportunities available to them. There's no real reward to a rich person committing a mugging. So you steal maybe a hundred bucks - so what, you can 'earn' that in a few minutes as an exec. It's all downside, risk without reward. Stealing that same hundred bucks when you're stone broke and have no income, on the other hand, might get you a week or two's worth of food to keep you alive.

And your poor person who steals might not be averse to embezzling millions, but is never going to be put in a position where they can. They have no opportunity to commit most of the far higher 'reward' type of crimes that rich people do.

Also, of course, we structurally punish 'poor people' crimes much more harshly than 'rich people crimes'. You mug somebody, you hurt one person and steal a dinky amount of money, you can wind up in jail for 3-5 years. You embezzle millions, hurt thousands, and you might wind up in jail for the same 3-5 years, rather than for the rest of your life, even though you cause hundreds or thousands or even millions of times more damage.

[Android3.14]

58. Well put

I find it incredible that people believe the rich are wealthy because they possess some inherent spiritual quality that just, you know, makes them deserving of wealth. And of course, the poor are without money because they lack that inherent spiritual power-up.

I've long believed the civil rights movement would better achieve their goals of racial equality if they concentrated on equal rights/equal opportunity/equal justice for the poor rather than a particular ethnicity.

[stillwaiting]

5. Ordering a pizza on your first post? Thank you!

There's so much you clearly just don't get, and there's very little chance that you want to get it.

[KitSileya]

7. I alerted, waiting for results.

This was such clear racism it isn't worth refuting, better he be tombstoned than be allowed to create a hostile environment on this site.

[stillwaiting]

9. Exactly. He asked that I "explain" things to him. If he's reading this thread still,

he needs to take a few sociology courses. The sociological perspective explains what's going on within the black community.

There are also LOTS and LOTS of books that tackle the subject. He clearly had it all figured out though and I wasn't about to waste my time.

[KitSileya]

10. And the jury works!

6-1 to hide, and if the 1 had guts, they'd reveal themselves so that we could take the appropriate action.

[stillwaiting]

11. Sometimes it does work around here. :) nt

[marym625]

17. That's a bit of victim blaming

How exactly is systematic racism the fault of those oppressed? You studied science? How about math? Statistics prove racism in this country.

[marym625]

19. so what university was it that you studied science?

Baiting won't change facts. Racism is alive and well in Amerikkka.

Interesting that you just joined DU and your only posts are devoid of fact and only about racism.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

24. Are you Stu42 because your last 41 Stu's have already been banned? nt

[madokie]

6. I was talking to my racist neighbor the other day

and he was all beside himself because of the riots in Ferguson saying that black people kill hundreds of cops each year but when one cop kills a black person they riot. I just got the hell out of there as I didn't want to start anything but later I looked up the statistics on that and send him the link. Of course he never acknowledged that though as he never does,

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. I recommend ....

The next time you see your neighbor ... ask him (in your most passive-aggressively, innocent doe-eyed manner) did he get your link and ask him where he got his information because you couldn't find anything, anywhere, that said anything close.

[madokie]

39. Good idea

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. I recommend this because ...

when people walk away from such comments, they validate the comments, or at least the acceptability of the person making such comments

[madokie]

47. That is correct and I understand that

Thats why I had to look up some numbers for this jackass to begin with. I've been working on this asshole for the whole time I've been neighbors with him.
We're both tinkerers so we have a lot in common on that front so there will be a lot of chances for me to continue to try to get the truth across to him. As long as we have white racist asshole we will have racism.
35 years or so ago I lived in a neighborhood where my friend and I were the only whites within blocks and never once were we mistreated because of our skin color, not one time. Hell we didn't have but one key to the door so instead of having another one made so we'd each have one we'd just drop the one in the little metal mail box beside the door and in the middle of the night you could hear that key drop in that box for miles but not once did we come home to find our stuff missing or been fucked with. And we were dope heads at the time. Everybody else had nice mowed lawns but us, hell at one point there I picked up a blade of bermuda grass in the back yard and pulled up on it and it came to the bottom of the slit in my levis where I stick my hands in my pocket. a good 30 some odd inches tall it was or would have been if it was stiff enough to stand up that is.
I know where the problem with racism lies and its not black people causing it.

My great grand father was a slave owner and his son, my Grand Father joined the Union army to help to free those slaves. I go back a long ways in this fight. We'll win in the end I do believe but I also am beginning to think it will be after a lot of these old racist assholes die off.

[JaneyVee]

37. Hundreds of cops each year?! Cop killings are almost non-existent.

[madokie]

44. Thats what I found out in my search

I had no idea but I knew it wasn't hundreds.
Racist people are just going to continue being racist. There are exceptions to this but not much of any

assholes are born that way I do believe that.

[exboyfil]

48. Agreed - 27 died last year

on duty from felonious acts (76 total). LEOs are not in the top 10 for dangerous occupations.

[madokie]

51. A long ways from hundreds

Thats why like 1SBM said we have to continue to follow up on the bullshit otherwise we're validating it.
Its a battle we have to continue fighting as long as it takes.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. 4,405 people were killed in the workplace in 2013. 748 in construction jobs.

For perspective and context. Being a cop is much safer than being a roofer.

[vankuria]

13. The rioting

has to do with justice for the person killed. While their is plenty of crime to go around on all sides of the racial divide, you can be sure that those responsible (as in Chicago, I know of no criminals who got off easy) will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. When a black individual is killed in cold blood by law enforcement or anyone for that matter and no charges/punishment is meted out, justice is not served and that's when black communities and concerned citizens everywhere take to the streets to protest how unfair our criminal justice system is to minorities.

[easychoice]

20. you are full of crap stu

neither murder was warranted...PERIOD!

[marym625]

26. He's gone

What do they do? Get together and join DU to attack at once? EESH!

[easychoice]

29. Yeah Mary their local claven sends them in groups.

we really are surrounded by people dumber than shrubbo...

[marym625]

30. Eesh

I was on the jury for the first one and alerted on the second. One juror actually said I shouldn't alert because I don't agree. Evidently doesn't get we get trolls. Guy joined just a half hour ago and had 4 posts, all saying, in one way or another, black people deserve to be killed by cops

[easychoice]

32. I saw the juror who responded to leave it -- Seriously?

Neither situation he discussed warranted death by cop.My mom was a cop.Neither one of those officers did anything to diffuse or mitigate to gain cooperation.
The attitude is kill them and let the taxpayers pay for the hassle that results.

[marym625]

38. exactly

And to say that there's no racism in this country and anything that happens to oppress poc is their own fault? In what world is that true?

I totally get being sick of alerts for retribution, for nothing at all, but these two were obviously trolls with an agenda to post racist bullshit. If a person on a jury can't take the time to look at a profile or the thread, they should decline service.

Good for your mom. I have not heard about a single retired officer not saying how everything was done wrong by Wilson and whatshisname.

[easychoice]

45. My mom would have arrested either one of them on the spot

and hand carried the charges to the prosecutor.
That's how it worked before reagan got elected.I am sure she would be beside herself had she lived to see this.

[marym625]

46. I'm sorry for your loss

As I have heard so many retired cops say about both Eric Garner and Michael Brown, absolutely no reason not to back off. Neither were going to hop on a plane and leave the country. If situation actually became heated if approached properly, neither called for the extreme force used.

And as I and others have said about Wilson, he was in a vehicle, move it and situation is gone. Personally, I believe that Wilson had his gun drawn when he backed the vehicle up. I believe he had it pointed at Michael Brown from the start. I believe he threatened both Mike Brown and Dorian Johnson from the second they took a step that wasn't in the direction of the sidewalk.

[easychoice]

49. right,no excuse and that's what's wrong...

It seems like they get paid extra and promoted to cause as much trouble as possible.
I know here in Seattle everyone is scared to death of them and if they show up the phone cam's come out.
This is soo wrong.How did we get here?

[marym625]

50. The militarization of the police

It's not like people of color haven't been targeted forever. But the military attitude, that citizens are the enemy, started under Reagan.

It's all about, and always about, the money.

[easychoice]

52. the President of our police union here

came out openly in the union paper and stated we are the enemy.You are right about them protecting money.It always trumps the commoners.

[marym625]

53. Holy shit!

Do you have a link for that?

[easychoice]

60. mary it was published in a newspaper here...A newspaper called " The Stranger"

look here...the cops accused the stranger of spying on them,lmao...
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Search?q=Police


It all started over my friend Jon,they murdered him...And tried to lie about it...shot him in the back and left him to bleed to death.He was the only homeless guy I really knew from all the years I ate lunch on the benches downtown...Pissed me off something awful.

[marym625]

61. jesus christ

I'm assuming he didn't have a weapon? Cowards shoot unarmed people. Cowards shoot people in the back. Cowards shoot people that are not a threat.

I'm sorry for your loss.

I hate the policy of cuffing an already shot person. And leaving him there like that. No humanity.

Thank you for the information. I'm not sure which story on the link to check. And is the cop that accused the paper of stalking, the union rep? Or are those two different people?

[easychoice]

62. Yeah,he had a swiss army knife in his hand in his pocket they tried to lie their asses off about it.

Last edited Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)

A lady who witnessed it called the TV stations and then some other people who saw parts of it stood up.We were really angry.All of the Attorneys from all the law firms downtown just raised hell about it for months.The D.O.J. took over the police department but Jon was long dead by the time Birks was fired for murdering him.A couple of lawyers told me he would never work in L.E. again but I haven't kept track of him.
Jon was the coolest homeless person I ever ran across in my time working downtown.

The prez of the union was the one who said The Paper was spying on him.Give me a while and I'll see if I can find the exact article .I sent you to their article search engine.I may have to call them to recover it.

see this too:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/what-some-seattle-cops-think-the-problem-is/Content?oid=6266406

[marym625]

63. Holy shit!

That's some unbelievable stuff. Thank you for sharing it.

At least the cop was fired. It's not much but it's more than happens to most.

Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

[countryjake]

64. Mary, here's the video from the dashcam of the cop who murdered John...

Last edited Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

John T. Williams: Dashboard Video of SPD Shooting

John T. Williams was a Ditidaht First Nation Master Carver, murdered for whittling on a stick of wood. Totems.

You can see John carving, crossing the street in front of the cruiser, then count down the seconds between the time that the cop first hollers at him and the shots being fired that killed him (a man who was hard of hearing, wearing ear buds), shots to his back, side, and chest as he turned to see what the commotion was about. You can also hear the woman who had just crossed the street, screaming at that cop, "He didn't even do anything!".

John was also a friend of ours; I don't think he ever knew what hit him, in the seconds that it took Officer Ian Birk to shoot him dead.





And here is the folding knife that was found closed, on the sidewalk beside John's body the day he was murdered.
His precious carving knife, with a three inch blade.

[Mbrow]

22. Methinks a troll has slipped in.

while you can question the facts about what started the shooting with Brown the end result was that he had his hands up when he was fatality shot and there is evidence the officer was the aggressor and started it. As for Garner, just watch the video.

Go climb back under your rock.

[Bjorn Against]

28. You are a racist asshole

I just had to say that while I had a chance, thankfully your bigoted views will no longer be seen on this site.

[certainot]

21. "black on black" crime has been a republican radio meme for years

it is a commonly used excuse for all sorts of racism in media because americans allow the classic PSYOPS called RW talk radio

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. Yes ...

Because it allows your fear to tell you "If they do that to themselves, what will they do to me?"

[marym625]

23. Looks like your post

Drew some attention from some new people

K&R

[Garion_55]

25. republicans want more white people killing black people

because 93% black on black is too high say people like guiliani. with more whites killing blacks, that will bring that percentage number down or something.

[Feral Child]

34. Very succinct.

It's a phrase I find particularly galling.

Violent criminals are often heartless sociopaths that choose their victims by accessibility. They don't care who their victim's are as long as their helpless and available.

I doubt that stats on white-asshole-on-white-victim even exist outside of some buried scholastic article in an obscure academic journal. Reports of B-on-B crime are just a flimsy excuse for some cops to vent their racism.

Thanks for spotlighting this issue.

[jtuck004]

36. I worry more about "Money-on-No Money Crime". I think if we figure out how to quit supporting

the bastards that are collectively taking in about $500,000 a minute and, frankly, prefer that we keep arguing among ourselves so they can continue, we could use that money to insure jobs, education, housing, health care, and a future.

Because with those, maybe white folk can quit asking why Mookie broke the window.

[marym625]

40. Love that last sentence

It's all about, and always about, the money

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. The only problem I have with this article ...

But “black-on-black crime” has no racial equivalent: nobody talks about white-on-white crime (see 2) or Asian-on-Asian crime.

Teachable Moment Alert (White Privilege Exposed):

Because white people aren't talking about "X" doesn't mean "X" isn't being talked about.

From what I understand, people in the Asian community talk about Asian-on-Asian crime; they, like most of those in the Black community, just don't talk to white people about Asian-on-Asian crime.

[gollygee]

43. It's used an an excuse to ignore police violence

which is just evil. I don't care what other crime there is - police violence is wrong, and it is racial because it affects people of color disproportionately, and nothing can excuse it.

The US is so ridiculouosly segregated that it should not be surprising that most crime is between people of the same race. The "black-on-black crime" meme isn't really about that at all. It's a dog whistle.

[Igel]

55. The media talk about outliers.

Outliers affect public perception more than the routine, average state of affairs because they get talked about more.

Airplane crashes kill far fewer people than car crashes. Airplane crashes get a lot of media attention. There are a lot of people more concerned about getting on a plane than getting in a car. Take-away message: People are bad at statistics and probabilities.

With BoB crime the public perception is based on two things. Regardless of the percentages--most homicides know those they kill--the rates are quite different (even as the overall murder rate's dropped in the last 10 years). Homicides/person are a lot bigger for black Americans than for white Americans. (I say "black" because that's how the #s are reported: this includes African-Americans, Jamaican-Americans, recent immigrants from Africa and their offspring as well as those whose ancestors were brought to North American in the 1600s. These have different murder rates, I'd assume, but all get merged in the uniform crime reports the FBI puts out.)

This is a problem. It's a serious problem. But it's a different problem from police violence. Surely we can say, "There are two problems" without having our brains seize up. And surely we can say, "This is a problem, and denying it because racists decide to use it for their own PR purposes is embarrassing or distracting or makes us feel bad." Otherwise we're saying, "Let the dead bodies stack up so long as we're not embarrassed or put in an awkward situation." The key is to say, "Look, there are two problems--we're talking about this one here, if you want to talk about another one, how about scheduling time for that over next Tuesday? Just stop trying to change the subject and dominate this conversation because these facts embarrass you or make you feel bad." Dismissing the differences in the number of primarily young black men that are killed just because their killers are young black men is misguided.

A lot more black men and kids would be alive if we got the BoB homicide rate to that of whites or even Latinos than if we had 0 blacks killed by cops in a given year. A lot more.

However, not all the percentages are neutral. Last I checked--2011 or 2012 stats--about half of all stranger murders with white victims were committed by blacks. I think the number was over half, but those are witness' reports and I'm going to hedge on their reliability a bit. But if you were white, you'd know a lot more whites (that's how society's structured, right?). However if you were a white killed by a stranger, your killer had about a 50% chance of being black. Since if you're white you're less likely to be around blacks, it ups the odds of any random black stranger's killing you if you're white.

Remember what I said about people being bad at stats and probabilities and looking at outliers? This kind of crime may be reasonably rare, but it's an outlier and sticks out. Stranger murders are relatively rare and are generally swamped when you look at in- versus out-group murders. A disproportionate number of such murders are committed during crimes, as well, so this is a knock-on effect from other crime types.

This is all made worse--and understandable--because we like group boundaries, sheltering those in our group and vilifying those outside of our group. It makes whites much more likely to generalize that "stranger homicide" disparity to paint all blacks as murderers. It makes blacks much more likely to minimize the in-group murder rate and often just forget about them, regardless of how the MSM reports them. People often focus on what's done to them as a group. We take shelter and comfort in group boundaries. And then we turn around and say that the group boundaries and group dynamics we don't like are evil and bad, even as we affirm those group boundaries and dynamics that we like.

[DirkGently]

56. +++ Most crime is "X on X." The whole thing is a racist red herring.

If I recall, 90-something% of murders of black Americans are committed by other black Americans. 80-something% of murders of white Americans are committed by other white Americans. It's just demographics. People are mostly victimized by their neighbors, and we are a racially and economically segregated country.

The only point I can see of bringing up "black on black" crime in the context of, say, police brutality, is to imply that black people are just terribly violent and therefore should expect to be assaulted by the police.

Or, that black people shouldn't be able to complain against crimes committed against them until "they" stop committing crimes against each other. As though the people being assaulted by police are necessarily the same people assaulting each other.

The whole premise is that racial groups are homogenous wholes. There is an entire class of fallacy devoted to this -- something about "outgroup homogeneity" I think.

[hughee99]

57. I had always thought the reason for the separation

Of "Black on black" crime was because one could relatively safely start with the assumption that it wasn't racially motivated. For the most part, when white people are the victims of a crime, people's first thought isn't that it might be related to race.

[MisterP]

59. plus, y'know, they never talk about it someone who's white's about to walk after

shooting someone who's black in the back--THEN it becomes a huge concern about how "they kill each other every day"

sorta like how the ammosexuals hit the streets for mental healthcare only when a lot of people get shot (or maybe it's like Eddie Eagle who "proves" the NRA is lowering the number of kids shooting each other by making sure every parent's dresser has a pistol in it and then giving their kids a comic book)

funny how that always works out