“What woman truly believes she is not equal to a man?”

[kpete]

Nuns Gone Wild! Vatican Chastises American Sisters
Apr 20, 2012 6:00 AM EDT
American nuns are pushing ‘radical-feminist themes,’ according to a damning new Vatican report. Barbie Latza Nadeau on why the U.S. sister act is too hot for the men of the Holy See.

...........

Sister Beth Rindler of Detroit, who is part of the National Coalition of American Nuns as well as a member of the LCWR believes the Vatican is focused on the American sisters because they tend to be more independent than their European, Latin American, and African colleagues. While nuns in the rest of the world still wear conservative habits and head covers, the majority of American nuns stopped the practice shortly after the Second Vatican Council reforms.

Many American nuns also live independently and reach high education levels—all while still serving the church. Rindler says she believes that the hierarchy in Rome is really worried that the American nuns will influence other sisters around the world. “That’s why the men in the Vatican want control, what they see as influence, we see as enlightenment,” she says, adding that some nuns are brainwashed into thinking they are lesser beings than their male counterparts. “What woman truly believes she is not equal to a man?”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/20/nuns-gone-wild-vatican-chastises-american-sisters.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

[Scuba]

1. My wife's pretty sure she's better than I. Does that count?

[pink-o]

13. Hey she's married to a man who knows proper grammar!

That elevates you right there!

[Scuba]

14. Both my grandmothers were schoolteachers, which helped me greatly....

Being born to their children was clearly the best decision I ever made!

[Skittles]

50. MRS. SCUBA IS CORRECT

[Scuba]

54. LOL I'll pass that along.

[Skittles]

64. SHE HAS YOU TRAINED WELL!!!

YEE HAW!!!

[Scuba]

67. As I've often said, if I'm not the perfect husband....

... it certainly isn't my wife's fault.

[rhett o rick]

2. I once told my wife that she was a better man than I.

She didnt take it as a compliment.

[coalition_unwilling]

19. Hmm, I wonder why. :) - n/t

[surrealAmerican]

32. Did she reply ...

... that you were a better woman the she?

[rhett o rick]

49. LOL, you are not series?? nm

[siligut]

3. If the men didn't believe it, they wouldn't work so hard to keep women down. nt

[rhett o rick]

24. I think you nailed it. nm

[Beacool]

29. Hear, hear!!!!

It's fear that makes men in some cultures attempt to keep girls uneducated and under their control.

[polichick]

4. If they were serious, they'd quit that corrupt church and stop enabling...

It's women - nuns and lay people - who keep it all going. What would happen if the nuns and mothers across the world decided not to subject any more children to the church with it's sexism and pedophilia?

[lunatica]

5. I was part of the women's movement in the 60s

And the thing that galled me was that I knew I'm a lot more intelligent that most men. I found out what my IQ is when I was going through my divorce. I had been a housewife for 15 years and the lawyer (we had a mediator rather than two lawyers) made me sign up to go to professional job counselor to test for my job aptitudes. Part of that test was to take an IQ test, which I wasn't aware I was taking at the time. It turns out I have an above average IQ which means I am supposedly smarter than the average person. It didn't surprise me.

Yet men always just assumed I was a stupid woman just because I'm a woman. Believe me, it was galling!

[RC]

8. I much prefer the company of intelligent, educated women.

I find it rubs off on me. That is a good thing.

[coalition_unwilling]

20. The women's movement in the 60s (and 70s) represents

a great advancement in the course of human liberty. An entire gender (at least in the West) discovered new dimensions to its existence and that, whenever and for whomever it happens, is always a great thing.

One of the two most brilliant professors I studied under was a woman and my female students (in English) were easily the equals and often the superiors of their male counterparts.

[Angry Dragon]

6. In my opinion any person that thinks women are not

equal to men is an idiot.

The only thing I can think of is that the Pope and his buddys have invited Satan into their heart and souls.

[glinda]

30. Here is the convolution

The Pope always refers to the Church as a "She". You hear this frequently.
The "true representative" of the Church as stated by Doctrine is the Pope and also the Priests and Bishops, etc....all rolls of importance to be headed by "men" only.

So ..... the "men" are representing a "she". Odd don't you think?

[Angry Dragon]

31. Is that why they wear dresses and the Pope

fancy red shoes??

[glinda]

45. ...

[efhmc]

42. Not really, Christ is the groom and the church is his bride according to the NT.

"The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19 -9; 21:1-2)."

[glinda]

44. All the more reason to think they have identity issues IMHO.

[Dokkie]

35. I know you are trying to be politically correct

but equal in what? and why do we have to be equal? we have our strenghts and our weaknesses. For one they are not physically stronger, faster, bigger and intellectually at best, you can say they are equal to men and not smarter.

Please if you or anyone are to reply to this post, just tell me what particular areas where men and women are equal. Personally I will never understand the obsession of always trying to compare the 2 sexes.

Easy with the flamming, I bruise easy

[Angry Dragon]

36. That is easy

equal in value and worth
Everyone has the RIGHT to be who they are


I am not famous for my PCism

[Dokkie]

38. Thats a cop out

We cannot be equal, we are physiologically different, our minds our wired differently and we have different hormones running through our systems. Its like saying everyone is beautiful.

If I need someone to lift a heavy object, a man would have more value than a woman and if you want to .... cant think of anything distinctively a female trait that wouldnt make me sound like a sexist pig.

You get the point, now think of areas of your life where a man would be of greater value and how often you encounter them and do the same for a woman. Ofc this will be different for different people but I will bet that a man has more value in your life than a woman.

Chow, I think I have said enough

[Tumbulu]

47. I think that you have

I guess you assign little or no value to the woman who produced you in her body. And most likely a woman raised you....how about teachers and ....well, I guess they all value less to you than to someone who can drive a backhoe- whoops, women do that nowadays.......

Strange, I would think that without life, all the other things would be of less importance.

[Angry Dragon]

52. I have no idea where you get your talking points from

It is my opinion that everyone has the same value as everyone else

When people start thinking that others have different values then they start putting people into boxes.

And I would sugest that you do not make assumptions about me that you know nothing about

[fascisthunter]

59. so, do you believe people should be treated differently because of their sex, ethnicity, etc?

[efhmc]

43. We should all be equal in the eyes of the law and if religious, in the eyes

of the deity we believe in. These things have nothing to do with individual reproductive organs, intellect, athletic ability, etc. Equal.

[fasttense]

7. Exactly.

I can't imagine what some of these women who belong to Christian, Jewish, Mormon and Muslim fundamentalists sects think. From their prayers to their dress habits, the women are taught daily to believe they are inferior to men. I have never met a man that I thought was my superior, even my brothers, father, son and husband have faults. I guess I expect that for a man to be my superior, he better damn well be perfect. I think of men as people with more testosterone. Not as some master species to rule over me.

And yet to imagine thinking of yourself as really lowly to these people with their sex organs hanging out. To think you should not have the same rights and privileges as they do just because while they were in the womb they got an extra dose of testosterone. I can't fathom thinking of myself as inferior. It must require careful teaching and constant reminders.

[redqueen]

11. "careful teaching and constant reminders"

http://www.missrepresentation.org/
http://www.about-face.org/

etc etc

[redqueen]

9. Ah, but that's what messes so many women up.

Grow up thinking you're equal, then find out during puberty that while that might be actually true, in reality you are not treated as or considered an equal.

[11 Bravo]

10. Phyllis Schlafly. n/t

[efhmc]

12. Billion of women have this degredation pounded into them from before birth,

through the treatment of countless previous generations of women as inferior beings. They have nothing in society or family or religion which teaches them anything different.

[RainDog]

34. it's not just the catholic church. it's also fundie protestant ones. n/t

[Patiod]

56. And all the fundamentalist religions

Orthodox Jews and Muslims

[ProfessionalLeftist]

15. “What woman truly believes she is not equal to a man?”

Nun.

Really though, it's ground into women's heads from the moment they're born. Many women though, can see through the bullshit and manage to have some healthy self-worth in spite of the patriarchy. Like these very wise nuns.

[Liberty Belle]

16. Women are stronger. If men had babies, the species would be extinct.

We tend to have higher thresholds for pain. The men in my family whine if they have a stubbed toenail by contrast.

I run an organization and will say from years of experience in many workplaces that overall I vastly prefer working with women, though there are a couple of notable exceptions. Women take directions. Men give you attitude or act condescending. Women work well in groups and have a team spirit, men tend to be rugged individualists in it for themselves. Granted these are generalizations but there's certainly a biological difference in our hard wiring!

[4th law of robotics]

26. That's the common mantra, but apparently not true

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51160

[Skittles]

51. LOLOL

any gal who has ever looked after a guy with a cold knows the truth

[VWolf]

58. FWIW,

when I'm sick I don't want my wife anywhere near me.

I can take care of myself just fine without getting her sick too.

Try narrowing your brush a bit.

[Skittles]

62. try thickening your skin

[VWolf]

68. Why? Is that good for colds? n/t

[4th law of robotics]

60. Personal anecdotes

I'm sure many guys could point out when a female friend broke a nail and cried for days.

Doesn't make it a biological fact.

[Skittles]

63. yes, women cry for days over broken nails

[4th law of robotics]

66. Yes all men require constant care for a cold

you came up with a ridiculous anecdote so I countered.

[VWolf]

57. Ever pass a kidney stone?

For 10 hours???

Yep, that's the closest I've come to experiencing childbirth.
It wasn't pretty.

[meow2u3]

17. Here's one thing I don't understand

If Scripture says that women are not supposed to preach, why is the the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith jumping down the nuns' throat for not preaching against abortion and homosexuality? Could it be that the hierarchy is trying to hide behind church doctrine regarding sexual matters not only to intimidate the nuns, but also to hide their own complicity in protecting pedophiles in their ranks?


The Cardinal who heads it is Cardinal Levada, a right-winger from San Francisco, and he's known to politicize church doctrine. He was also criticized and accused of mishandling sexual abuse cases in Portland (OR) when he was an auxiliary bishop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Levada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_the_Catholic_archdiocese_of_Portland

[font color="red"]On a side note: I've noticed that the more a clergymember preaches against sexual behavior regarding adults, the more likely they are themselves to have been engaging in, or actively covering up, inappropriate sexual behavior with minors or subordinates.[/font] In other words, they're judging others by themselves.

[JDPriestly]

18. I do not believe that I am equal to a man. Life has shown me that I am more likely

superior to a man in many respects, not just equal.

To begin with, statistically speaking, in the U.S. I am likely to live longer than a man. That makes me superior right there. I may well have a stronger immune system.

And I did better in school than lots of the boys, so I felt a little superior there.

I don't think that women have any reason to believe that they are merely equal to men. I think we are most likely, fairly viewed, objectively seen -- superior on the whole.

(I'm joking a bit but not entirely.)

[coalition_unwilling]

22. Patriarchy has really fucked the planet up. I say we bring

back the matriarchy. (I'm also joking a bit but not entirely

[Tumbulu]

48. The whole time I was growing up it was an undisputed fact that men were emotionally weak

and that they had such terrible inferiority complexes..... that the whole hatred of women witnessed all over the world was a result of the fact that men of course knew this inside, but had to put on this huge act of being better than women because they quite rightly felt so very inferior.....

I always thought that everyone had observed this.

I never knew until I grew up that most girls were told that they were inferior to boys....

I had many catholic nuns within my extended family and they took the dimmest view of the silly men who thought that they (the men) ran things. It is very much a matter of how one looks at things, I suppose.

[Rex]

21. “That’s why the men in the Vatican want control..."

WANT CONTROL? I was shocked to find out they lost any!

[Moonwalk]

23. "What woman believes she's not equal to a man?"--as said before, "Nun..."

Or in this case, Nuns. I applaud them on the one hand for not folding, for standing tall and fighting back, but I'm mystified as to why any woman, thinking herself equal to a man, would join any religion that makes her, by fiat, perpetually inferior and beholding to men. These nuns have only to take a step sidewise into the Episcopalian church and they'll be able--if they wanted--to be bishops. They'd be able to vote and have their views matter. If they stayed as they were, they'd be under the leadership of women as well as men.

Why would a women who knows herself as equal to a man--certainly in regards to religious knowledge and vocation--be part of a religious organization that never has and never will (or so it seems) give equality to its women?

As if it ever made any sense to segregate the sexes in the first place. If the focus is on the spiritual, then why should anyone's gender matter?

[undeterred]

27. Because they believe you can only change an institution from the inside and

they really love that institution. As the numbers of people who want to become Catholic clergy keep dwindling maybe someday the hierarchy will figure out that something is very wrong.

[4th law of robotics]

25. They signed up for the Catholic Church and were amazed to discover . . .

that it's a intensely centralized male-dominated organization that puts control first and foremost?

Maybe you should have seen that coming.

I could see being upset if this were the dark ages and your family signed you up for the nunnery against your will and without your consent.

By they walked in to this voluntarily and knowingly.

/next up: US soldiers shocked to find they have to follow orders all the time and wear uniforms.

[gtar100]

28. This speaks clearly to the insanity of religion.

So much of their "doctrine" is based on the fear of women. These bishops and cardinals are so caught up in their own interpretations of scriptures and ecclesiastical writings that they are incapable of learning from reality. It's a textbook definition of having one's head up their ass. It sounds like Mother Mary Clare Millea is working for the Grand Inquisitor. And rather than spending all that time and money doing something good, she's been given the green light to persecute and condemn the women who actually live and breath in the communities they serve. I wonder if she secretly longs for the good ol' days of the 12th Century. It was so much easier to keep people in line back then.

[RainDog]

33. surely she understands that enlightenment is and was the enemy of the church

not only individual clarity of mind, but the entire process that was The Enlightenment that brought about American democracy.

The church was the enemy of this intellectual trend.

The church has been the enemy of women since its inception. I sincerely doubt it will change on this issue.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. I think *anyone* who would let the Pope tell them how to run their life

is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

[calimary]

39. Amazing. Just freakin' amazing.

We are going through such a time of regression! It's astounding!!! I can't figure it out - unless this is some sort of extreme backlash to the 60s and 70s that's cresting like some tidal wave now, or if it's something cyclical in the overall progress and, yes, evolution of humankind. What the hell is going on? The hard-won few steps forward we struggled to realize a few decades back have been met with multiple steps BACKWARD in reaction. And really hostile, thuggish, and outlandishly extremist reaction, too. I'm just stumped. I'm aghast at the trends I see playing out in politics. For example - I NEVER in a million years thought I'd see the day when state-sanctioned - indeed even state-mandated rape even came up for discussion, much less being full-on in-yer-face enacted into law!!!

Good heavens!!! At the moment I find myself in an email argument with some San Fernando Valley woman about this Bishop Jenky fellow's extremist knuckle-dragging politicking from the pulpit last weekend - saying Obama is a liar and how dare he force tyranny on religions and the rights of Catholic hospitals and blah-blah-blah. The woman with whom I'm debating is making it clear to me that we can never reach a meeting of the minds on issues like this. She's quite the absolutist. Her Facebook info reveals she's a rick-santorum-for-president fan. And unfortunately, she's arguing with someone who believes a woman's right to have the last word on matters involving her own body is a non-negotiable. She sees everything as some war on religion. I recognize it as a continuing assault on women. We will never reach agreement here.

Interesting comments with this article. A few seem to be bothered by the relentless, strident insistence on keeping women in second-class-citizen status. There are some who say - okay then, you might as well leave if you won't toe the line on this. So go be a Protestant then. Then on the other hand the same people will moan about the shortage of priests (and nuns too) and why money's tighter and the churches aren't packed every Sunday anymore.

Honest-to-Pete, women are under siege EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our rights - our bodies - our very being.

Let's all remember (in Christ-centered terms anyway) that even God the Father Almighty needed a woman to realize His ultimate Gift to humanity. After all, none of the Scriptures I ever studied in Catholic school told of a Messiah who arrived on some flaming coach with fiery horses and warrior angels and stuff, nor one who sprung fully-formed and adult from His Father's forehead or arose from the sea foam or some other such thing. Women count for something extremely and foundationally significant. We cannot be denied or discounted or sent to the back of the bus. I don't know, or know of, any woman who would see herself as not equal to a man. Although I'm not sure about that one woman with whom I'm arguing.

[meow2u3]

40. A couple of comments from the article (WIN!)

Looks like the boys hate women because they're envious of Jesus' mother.

xxxxxx
Yesterday
Why are men so afraid of women?
Reply

xxxxxx
Yesterday
xxxxxx,
Because no man had a role in the conception of Christ. Woman carry a mystery.

[Duppers]

41. my fundie mother

[freshwest]

46. Perfect title and quote. This is getting better. Go nuns.

[Kablooie]

53. Kinda depends which woman and which man doesn't it?

[ck4829]

55. K&R

[JDPriestly]

61. I think this Pope is working with extremist fundamentalists to try to bring back

the spirit of the Inquisition.

I know that is crazy, but it sometimes seems to be true.

[KamaAina]

65. These women?