What part of medical emergency do cops don't understand?

[avebury]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2014/12/12/dnt-asthma-death-dash-cam-video.wqow&hpt=hp_t2&from_homepage=yes&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

http://chippewa.com/news/opinion/columns/our-view-kressin-s-death-a-tragedy-on-every-level/article_b25f9afb-7c14-5f39-91b6-71d8cfd3e494.html

Although autopsy results are pending on an official cause of death, Kressin was suffering from an asthma attack when he was being driven to a hospital in the early morning hours of Nov. 30. A police officer stopped the car, discovered the problem and called for an ambulance. Kressin was rushed to the hospital, where he was pronounced dead.


They were only 3 miles away from the hospital on a road that the was virtually empty at 2:00 am. If the cops didn't trust the girlfriend to safely complete the drive, they should have just put the man in the patrol car and taken him to the hospital. Just being only 3 miles away from the hospital the cops could have gotten the man to the hospital faster then waiting for an ambulance and he might have lived.

[Horse with no Name]

1. How tragic!

However, people should understand that you NEVER put someone in the car that is in grave danger. This includes heart attacks, asthma attacks, strokes, etc.
You are ALWAYS better off to call an ambulance and activate the EMS. Your chances of survival will greatly improve the second that stabilizing help arrives.
The police did the right thing per protocol. Even if it took 5 minutes for that bus to arrive, that patient still would not have been on a stretcher in the hospital.
I'm sorry. Not pointing fingers at the blame but there might have been a different outcome if the ambulance had initially been called.

[avebury]

2. It 9 minutes 15 seconds before the ambulence arrived.

The woman would have been better off if she had not stopped. She should have just kept going and dealt with the police when she got to the ER.

The woman was telling the cop they the guy was have a really bad asthma attack, I still believe that the cop should have put the cop in the car and taken him to the ER if it was only 3 miles away and no traffic on the road. "Police protocol most likely cost this man his life. I can see a civil suit in that PD's future.

[Horse with no Name]

3. You are correct. She should have never stopped. I absolutely agree with that.

but when she did, they had no choice but to activate EMS per protocol. If they had varied from protocol and the man died, there would be a lawsuit. Had they allowed her to continue with him in the car and he died, then there would be a lawsuit.

They might sue anyway, but there was no intent. This protocol is the national standard. There is no negligence. They might even counter-sue her for contributory negligence. I would hope not but regardless, it is a very tragic situation.

[avebury]

13. Apparently the EMS protocol is not absolute

Perhaps when a cop is the one who injured the citizen they overlook it?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/goddamned-nazi-stormtrooper-texas-cop-tasers-76-year-old-man-with-expired-inspection/

Texas police officer was placed on administrative leave on Friday after he reportedly used a Taser on a 76-year-old man after the suspect had already been forced to the ground.

The Victoria Advocate reported that 76-year-old Pete Vasquez was driving a work-owned vehicle back to his place of business on Thursday when 23-year-old Officer Nathanial Robinson pulled him over for an expired inspection.

Vasquez said that he explained that the car belonged to a car lot, and that the dealer tags made it exempt from having an inspection.


But dashcam video obtained by the paper shows Robinson using force to arrest Vasquez for what should have been a Class C misdemeanor. In the video, Vasquez pulls his arm away from Robinson, and the officer slams him into the hood of the patrol car. The two men disappear from camera range as Robinson places Vasquez in a hold, and then forces him to the ground.

According to police, Robinson shocked Vasquez with a Taser twice while he was on the ground.

“He just acted like a pit bull, and that was it,” Vasquez recalled. “For a while, I thought he was going to pull his gun and shoot me.”

Vasquez was placed in the patrol car, and then transported to Citizens Medical Center for treatment, where he spent the next two hours in police custody. He was eventually released with out being charged or cited.

[Horse with no Name]

14. Really not sure what this has to do with anything?

one was in police custody and one was not? Regardless of the sketchy circumstance in this video which are horrible, the fact that he was in police custody did alter the issue.

There is no denying that the initial event is tragic. However, contrary to popular belief, tragic preventable medical events happen every single day. Many times they are preventable if people would not try to take matters into their own hands and throw someone in a car who is in a crisis and drive like a madperson to the hospital. You will ALWAYS have a safer and better outcome if the EMS is activated simply because they can bring lifesaving equipment and drugs to your home and stabilize the patient before transferring to the hospital.

People have a vision that emergency personnel are standing at the door to greet you when you walk in the door or roll up in a private car. Most of the time, they aren't. They are with other patients or tending to medications or whatever. However, the one thing that is certain. When an ambulance is rolling in with a patient, they are completely ready the second that the patient hits the door to tend to the specific needs of that specific patient. Not to say that they can't mobilize quickly because they can but again, that is time lost.

Neither you nor I have any idea what would have happened in those last few miles to the hospital. She might have hit another car or a pedestrian that was walking at night or lost control of her car or any number of things.

There are reasons that these protocols are in place and despite best efforts of all, sometimes patients die.

[avebury]

16. You had stated that is was the nationwide protocol for the police to call EMS

to transport people to hospitals. In the story above, the did not call EMS but put the genleman in a patrol car and took him to the ER themeselves.

[Horse with no Name]

19. What part of being in custody don't you understand?

They OWN you at that point and don't have to heed to any type of protocol that applies to the citizens that aren't in custody. If you haven't figured it out yet, law enforcement plays by their own rules.

I honestly am not sure why you are being so dense on this subject, but have a great day! I'm done with the discussion.

[UncleYoder]

17. Trust me on this.

If you show up at the ER in obvious cardiac distress, you get to go to the head of the line.
No ifs, buts or can I see your insurance card please.

[Horse with no Name]

18. I know this

trust me.

My point is that they aren't waiting for you at the door. They can get into place pretty quick. You are still wasting golden minutes.

[UncleYoder]

20. I have to disagree.

Waiting 15 or so minutes for a squad vs. showing up on their front door within 5 was the difference in me being able to post on here.

[Horse with no Name]

21. Well I have only been a nurse for 25 years

so what do I know?

I am glad it worked out well for you.

[Carolina]

22. Well then as a nurse for 25 years

you should know that minutes count when someone is in severe respiratory distress. Ten minutes of hypoxia, possibly anoxia, can clearly have awful sequelae, especially for the brain IF the person survives. The video footage shows open road, clear road and the officer should have escorted the couple to the hospital which was only 3 miles away!

CPR (at least the breaths part) does little for asthma since, as you know, the small airways are occluded by tenacious mucus plugs producing patchy atelectasis, patchy edema and an acute inflammatory response. Air simply does not move through those occluded bronchioles. Treatment requires hydration (IV), bronchodilators and depending on the trigger, immune modulator therapy.

Not being able to breathe is a ghastly feeling, and this officer should obviously have escorted the couple by allowing them to follow him in their vehicle while he "cleared the road" with flashing lights, sirens, calling ahead and calling EMS. Those precious minutes on a disserted road waiting for EMS can reasonably be the basis for a well deserved lawsuit since at the time of the police stop the victim was alive and still able to communicate, yet by the time he was loaded into the ambulance, he was unresponsive.

Minutes counted in this situation, but what do I know. I have only been a physician for 35 years.

Carolina, M.D.

[Horse with no Name]

25. Oohhh I'm so impressed!

Actually, not. I've worked alongside your kind every now and then through the years...you know, the docs who shrink in the back while the rest of us run the code? lol

It's pretty dangerous that you advocate that your patients who are in distress hit the road. You and I both know that in isolated incidences that yes, it very well might be the best choice, but overall, it simply is not the best advice to be given to someone.

[Carolina]

23. You are so right, Uncle Yoder

See my post above

[Horse with no Name]

26. Listen up everyone! A Doctor advocates that critical patients be put in private cars

and bypass the EMS system.

So when you do this and your family member dies, please sue her.

[Carolina]

27. You are mighty impressed with yourself

And you stretch the truth. No one is advocating putting a person in a private vehicle routinely. Read!

And by the way I know your kind too.. The wannabe

[Horse with no Name]

28. I have been very responsible and have only spoken in generalities

because to do otherwise would be irresponsible.
And darling, trust me, I'm not a wannabe.

[rustydog]

31. You call 911!

You DO NOT throw a person into a private vehicle and speed to a hospital! You won't get a police escort, you risk killing your passenger.
I've pulled two dead people out of private vehicles in our ER driveway in the past year...people panic and don't think...

[Horse with no Name]

33. I think people watch way too much television

[LiberalElite]

5. With the way many police behave these days -

if she didn't stop there may have been some other problems.

[TransitJohn]

7. yeah, because then you obvioate the cops from getting in the way

AGREE, sort of.

[etherealtruth]

8. Noting that I am a frequent critic of the plice (to put it mildly)

Everything you said is correct.

This is a horrible tragedy ... but this is not the fault of the police. Sadly, horribly tragic events occur.

On a personal note ... last fall my (then) 17 year old son was home alone with my mother when she began exhibiting signs of a stroke. she wanted to drive herself to the hospital (approx 1 mile away) ... my son had a friend drive her.

Mercifully my mom has greatly recovered .... needless to say, we (as a family) had a long talk about "calling 911" if a stroke, heart attack, difficulty breathing etc are suspect.

call 911 immediately

[Aerows]

4. What part of a hummus enema

does our highest Federal Officer, The President of the US, not see to prosecute? Eric Holder could have prosecuted it, but he's coasting out of office.

How stern of a letter is going to be written to the people that facilitated the dishonor of our nation.

[LiberalElite]

6. ? did you mean to post this here? or somewhere else? nt

[Aerows]

11. Wrong thread reply

I'm rebuilding my PC and certain browsers are giving me problems. Vosteran spy ware and it's fit-worthy.

I'm likely going to just reformat the whole thing. Anyway, you didn't ask to hear my messed up PC troubles.

[MineralMan]

9. Wrong thread, I think...

[Aerows]

10. Mis-post

Replied in the wrong thread.

I'm rebuilding my PC and things have been a tad difficult.

[moriah]

12. PSA for the asthmatics here -- get your doc to write an epi-pen.

It's old-school and it won't cure the attack, just buy you some time, but it might have made the difference here. I've never had to use it for that indication, but my doc wrote it in case I had severe enough of an attack that respiratory collapse was imminent.

I don't buy for a minute that there was an actual safety concern for the driver of the vehicle. She was upset, not intoxicated.

That being said, generally it is better to call 911 than take a private car to the hospital for a severe asthma attack. I've ignored that advice more than once and been chewed out by my doctors for it, even though I had my portable nebulizer going and my epi-pen in hand en-route. They at least will have an epi-pen if you don't, oxygen to make the most of the air that can enter the lungs, a nebulizer if you don't have a portable battery-operated one, etc.

Still, so sad.

[Horse with no Name]

15. This is a good idea, however, most docs won't do it anymore

Too many folks self-treated with it and didn't seek additional help and then ended up in worse shape when the medication rebounded. Your doc puts a lot of trust and faith in you and probably does that on a case by case basis.

I have severe asthma and have been a nurse for a long time. One of my local docs fixed me up with epinephrine at home (not the epi-pen) and I even had some Brethine that I used in the nebulizer several years ago.

However, those days are long gone. Instead, I have an asthma action plan and an emergency dose of oral steroids at the ready. Just in case.

[jwirr]

24. From the looks of it they do not know much of any thing. We have seen them shoot a developmentally

disabled man, many mentally ill men, and now a man having an asthma attack. At the very least they need education.

[Faryn Balyncd]

29. Back in the old days, the cop would have given a "police escort" when he saw the problem.

(back in America)


K&R

[Horse with no Name]

30. In pre-litigious days

now bad decisions lead to bad outcomes which lead to someone suing someone else.

Everything is on the defense.

[TheKentuckian]

32. They only understand the part where it is one of their's.