N.J. authorities hope thaw in Cuba relations will aid capture of cop killer Joanne Chesimard

[BklnDem75]

TRENTON — State authorities today said they hope the thaw in U.S.-Cuba relations announced by the president will aid the capture and return of Joanne Chesimard, who escaped prison and fled to the island nation after being convicted of killing a N.J. State Police trooper.

"We view any changes in relations with Cuba as an opportunity to bring her back to the United States to finish her sentence for the murder of a New Jersey State Trooper in 1973," State Police Superintendent Col. Rick Fuentes said in a statement.

Chesimard, a member of the Black Liberation Army, was convicted in 1977 of murdering Trooper Werner Foerster during a gunfight after being stopped on the New Jersey Turnpike. She was sentenced to life in prison, but two years later escaped.

After hiding out for years, Chesimard resurfaced in Cuba in the mid-1980s and was granted asylum by the nation's former leader, Fidel Castro. Since then, she has been living under the protection of the Castro family and going by the name Assata Shakur.


http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/12/authorities_hope_thaw_in_cuban_relations_will_aid_capture_of_nj_cop_killer_joanne_chesimard.html


Pardon Assata Shakur

[Hoppy]

1. You think she should be pardoned?

[BklnDem75]

4. Yes

I'm not a fan of corrupt cops.

[Renew Deal]

2. Why should this person be pardoned?

[BklnDem75]

3. She was unarmed?

Unarmed black people getting convicted for first degree murder is not ok with me.

[Johnyawl]

5. Extradition requires more than diplomatic relations...

...the two countries would have to negotiate a treaty dealing with extradition.

There's a hell of a lot of detail to work out reestablishing relations between two countries.

[branford]

7. Not really.

Cuba is still a dictatorship, Chesimard's asylum could be rescinded at any time, and she could be handed over to US authorities tomorrow. Do not mistake Cuba for Canada.

In fact, I don't know why Obama did not insist on her return to US custody as part of the prisoner exchange and opening of diplomatic relations. Obama can still exert a great deal of pressure for her extradition, and there is no way in hell that Congress will lift the embargo while she still lives in Cuba.

She is a convicted murderer and escaped felon and should spend her remaining days in an dank New Jersey prison. The intense publicity surrounding Chesimard's story and strong public support for her extradition will go away quietly.

[BklnDem75]

12. Perhaps he's not a fan of sham trials...

[branford]

13. She's is welcome to return to the US and appeal her conviction.

Although I would note that it is the official (and very vocal) position of the the US Government, including the Obama White House and Holder DOJ, that Chesimard must return to US soil and serve her sentence.

The fact that Chesimard's return was not part of any deal with Cuba has served as a gift to both Democrats and Republicans who oppose the thawing of relations with Cuba, and she continues to part of overall Cuba story. The general public also strongly supports her extradition.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she was extradited within a couple of months as some sort of good faith gesture by Cuba, particularly if Obama agrees to visit the island. She is still a bargaining chip for the Cuban regime.

[BklnDem75]

15. Don't hold your breath...

The only deal you'll see for Shakur is a pardon. After the latest string of black killings and sham prosecutions, I wouldn't be surprised if she said 'no thanks.'

[branford]

19. Who said that she would have any say in the matter.

What she wants is not really important to either the USA or, quite frankly, the Cubans.

If they need her back in US custody to appease the White House, Congress or even potential American private and corporate investors who do not want to deal the ramifications of doing business in Cuba while she remains, the Cubans will return her. When they granted her asylum it was a political move against the USA, and turning her over would be just as easy. She is nothing more than a pawn. Do not forget that Cuba is still a dictatorship. It's not like she can appeal any extradition to an independent judiciary.

Moreover, when has Obama indicated in any way, shape or form that he would consider a pardon? The White House has demanded she return to American soil, and even a commutation would be a political disaster for our party. You might want to compare her to Michael Brown or Eric Garner, but the vast majority of the voting public most certainly does not agree. In fact, I would not be surprised if the US and Cuba already arranged some deal about her return.

[BklnDem75]

21. You assume much about Cuba...

Btw:

The Federal Bureau of Investigation says that President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder had nothing to do with putting the first black woman on the FBI’s “Most Wanted Terrorists” list for a crime she allegedly committed 40 years ago.

The move also makes Assata Shakur, previously known as Joanne Chesimard — once active in the Black Panther Party and the Black Liberation Army in the United States at different times over 35 years ago — the first woman to be placed on the list.

“Both AG and the President has nothing to do with the selection of the list or the approval and have not been involved since the creation of the list from 2001,” an FBI public affairs official told Politic365.

However, the official added that President Obama and Holder are aware of Assata Shakur being added to the list.


http://politic365.com/2013/05/20/fbi-obama-holder-not-involved-in-adding-assata-shakur-to-most-wanted-terrorists-list/


Continue dreaming about this President taking down an icon of his people.

[branford]

26. What the heck does the fact that she's purportedly the first black woman on any list

have to do with whether she should be returned to the USA, other than to indicate her return is a governmental priority? More importantly, would you kindly cite any statement by either President Obama or AG Holder that cast doubt on Chesimard's guilt or that they demand anything less than return to the US to serve her sentence?

Whether you like it or not, Chesimard is a convicted murderer and escaped felon. Unless President Obama joined the BPP or the BLA when I wasn't paying attention, or he suddenly approves of the murder of NJ troopers, she is not an "icon of his people." You presume far too much that simply because the president is black that he supports her, to speak nothing of the political suicide a pardon or commutation would entail. Obama is the president of the entire United States. Those are now "his people."

The president wants to improve relations between the African-American community and police across the nation. Even a hint of a positive comment concerning a cop killer like Chesimard could set race relations back decades.

[BklnDem75]

27. Nice speech... Shakur is safe where she is.

The US making relations with Cuba isn't some trade off. Don't confuse a good faith gesture with making demands for people under asylum. Race relations... lol! Stopping murders by the police will go a lot further than allowing corruption to have it's day.

[brush]

28. Get real

Do you actually think that Shakur is in any way a priority in this relationship thaw between the US and Cuba?

It's not even on the radar of either government, nor should it be.

There are a ton more important things to work out.

[branford]

31. Have you been watching the news?

The issue of Chesimard's extradition has been discussed in virtually every panel relating to the thawing of our relationship with Cuba.

I would also remind you that in order to actually fully lift the sanctions, Congress must act. Chesimard's asylum is a very easy and visible symbol for opponents of legalization, both Republican and Democrat.

You and a few others may not believe Chesimard is a priority, but apparently a great many other Americans feel quite differently, including the US Government, as Chesimard is still on its Most Wanted list. As I indicated earlier, I would not be surprised if her return has already been arranged, just not yet announced.

[brush]

32. Well let's watch and see. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

39. "The general public also strongly supports her extradition."

I'd wager the "general public" doesn't even know who Joanne Chesimard is.

[branford]

45. They haven't stopped talking about her on the news,

and the coverage of her is definitely not favorable, even among most of the liberal commentators.

If the public didn't about her before, they most certainly do now.

[KingCharlemagne]

40. Meanwhile, the U.S. government allows Luis Posada Carriles to walk amongst us as a free man. Cuba

should have insisted that Carriles' skanky ass be handed over to them (along with the terrorist Orlando Bosch) to face justice before they agreed to release the two spies (Gross and the other unnamed spy).

Luis Clemente Faustino Posada Carriles (born February 15, 1928) (nicknamed Bambi by some Cuban exiles)[1] is a terrorist and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) agent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles

[branford]

46. I have no objection to exchanging Carriles for Chesimard or similar and related prisoner exchanges.

However, when the Cuban authorities torture him or worse, I expect an appropriate reaction on DU.

I would also note that in the USA, anyone subject to deportation has recourse to our independent courts for redress. The president cannot legally just turn someone over to a foreign government. The Cuban dictatorship faces no such obstacles.

[KingCharlemagne]

49. Here's a suggestion. How about the U.S. and DU just STFU about other

countries torturing until such time as Bush, Cheney and other leading figures of the Junta are wearing orange jumpsuits? We have no, repeat ZERO, standing to say jack shit about torture EVER AGAIN!

[branford]

51. I'm now confused.

Most of DU is, quite correctly, horrified and dismayed by torture in the USA. Nevertheless, we, both as a country and individuals, should ignore torture and other human rights violations in Cuba and elsewhere?

I think I'll just ignore your suggestion, and continue to criticize the torture that occurred in our country and the many decades of tyranny and abuse perpetrated by the Cuban regime. I'm quite capable of finding fault with both Cheney and the Castro brothers.

[KingCharlemagne]

52. No, you're not confused at all. What part of "until such time as Bush,

Cheney and other leading figures of the Junta are wearing orange jumpsuits?" do you need me to explain to you?

Let me spell it out for you:

We don't get to complain about other countries torturing or violating buman rights when we're not holding our own torturers accountable before the law. Oh, we can complain all we want, and the rest of the world can laugh contemptuously at our rank hypocrisy and our absurd sanctimoniousness.

[branford]

54. You don't speak for me, so ease up on the "we."

I will continue to criticize both my own country and others when they engage in human rights violations. The Castro regime does not get a pass because of Bush, Cheney or anyone else.

In any event, despite your apparent sarcasm, I already stated that I have no objection to your idea of an exchange of Carriles for Chesimard. Both criminals should face justice.

[KingCharlemagne]

55. Oh, puh-leeze. In other threads, you've given Wilson a pass and you'd be quite

happy to give the U.S. a pass for its decades-long record of torture and violation of human rights, all so you can keep hypocritically pointing the finger at some external 'other.'

I was not proposing an 'exchange' of Chesimard (nka "Shakur') for Carriles. I was proposing that Cuba should have demanded the U.S. government render Carriles and Bosch to it before she released the spy Gross and the other unnamed spy.

This hypothetical 'exchange' of Shakur for Carriles is all in your head.

[Savannahmann]

56. Ready to make a deal?

The day that Robert Lady is handed over to the Itallian Government to begin serving his sentence, then I'll join you in calling on Cuba to give up anyone you want.

But since we aren't going to give up Robert Lady, ever.

[NOLALady]

6. This?

"state and U.S. law enforcement consider her one of the greatest threats to the American government."

We have home grown serious "threats" and she is considered one of the greatest!

PLEASE!

[branford]

8. Do you believe she should be extradited and spend the rest of her days behind bars? nt

She is a convicted murdered and escaped felon who's lived free and well in an unfriendly and undemocratic regime for decades. I care not at all if she's on any most wanted list or not.

[NOLALady]

33. No.

I am not convinced that she's guilty. Have you read her book?

[branford]

34. If you or she believe there were defects in her trial, the remedy is the appeals process.

It most certainly is not a violent escape from prison and then living decades of comfort with an unfriendly and undemocratic foreign power.

I do not care about her book for good or ill, although her chosen narrative is not evidence or anything. However, if it contains references to actual evidence of an unfair trial, I certainly have no objection to the citation of such evidence on appeal.

[NOLALady]

36. As someone else said, she is safe in Cuba

considering the climate here.

I expect that she would receive justice similar to Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, Michael Brown and countless others who committed no crimes.

[branford]

37. Now that's just foolish.

Chesimard actually received a trial and was convicted. She had ample appeal opportunities both at the state and federal level.

She engaged in an armed prison break-out that involved hostage taking of two guards. I would note that is most American courts, escape from lawful custody can usually be used as strong evidence of guilt.

Nevertheless, I agree that she is "safer" in Cuba to the extent that it means she will not face justice for her crimes or exoneration in a court of law. I certainly would not want to return to the USA if I was her. However, her asylum was a political act by the Cubans, and her extradition would be similarly political, as well as quick and easy.

In this instance, Chesimard was found guilty of murdering one police officer and seriously wounding another during a lawful traffic stop, and is therefore far more like George Zimmerman, Darren Wilson and Daniel Pantaleo. Given her admitted radical political affiliations and related conduct, there might very well have been racism at play when the shooting occurred, but the racist quite likely was Chesimard.

[KingCharlemagne]

42. Extradition requires a treaty. - nt

[branford]

47. Really?

Cuba is a dictatorship. They can turn over anyone they wish, whenever they want.

Subject to our own laws, such as our asylum statutes, we too can deport anyone.

No treaty is required, it just formalizes the process and makes it easier to accomplish.

[KingCharlemagne]

50. My, aren't you just so precious with your continual semantic equivocations

that would make even the Jesuits jealous.

Extradition is the official process whereby one country transfers a suspected or convicted criminal to another country. Between countries, extradition is normally regulated by treaties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition (Emphasis added)

[branford]

53. I'm a trial attorney. My "semantic equivocations" are both meaningful and pay the bills.

Comparisons to the Jesuits is quite the complement. Thank you.

You Wiki link also not only failed to actually contest any point of my post, but actually supported my argument.

There's no doubt that extradition is often dealt with by treaty simply because it is the most expeditious manner for the involved countries. However, it is by no means absolutely necessary, and a dictatorship like Cuba could deport anyone they wish.

[KingCharlemagne]

41. Would that be the appeals process as represented by the likes of St. Louis

County DA Bob McCulloch? That appeals process???? Give me an f-in break.

[BklnDem75]

9. In 2013...

Almost 40 years after she fled?

A total of 408 potential jurors were questioned during the voir dire, which concluded on February 14. All of the 15 jurors—ten women and five men—were white, and most were under thirty years old. Five jurors had personal ties to State Troopers (one girlfriend, two nephews, and two friends). A sixteenth female juror was removed before the trial formally opened when it was determined that Sheriff Joseph DeMarino of Middlesex County, while a private detective several years earlier, had worked for a lawyer who represented the juror's husband. Judge Appleby repeatedly denied Kunstler's requests for DeMarino to be removed from his responsibilities for the duration of the trial "because he did not divulge his association with the juror."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assata_Shakur


Totally legit trial right here...

[KingCharlemagne]

43. That's what we call "Justice Ferguson style" - nt

[NaturalHigh]

10. I had forgotten about her.

I would like for Cuba to return her, but I'm not hopeful.

[bluestateguy]

11. The case made by the state of NJ was flimsy

Full of holes, hearsay and inconsistencies. And of course an all white jury in 1970's New Jersey is going to convict a black woman of killing a white cop.

It was also 41 years ago, and it might be time to let it go.

[branford]

14. The proper response to a purportedly unfair trial is an appeal.

It is not a violent escape from prison and living freely in an undemocratic and unfriendly regime.

Moreover, why should anyone "let it go." If she's a murderer, she should be in prison serving her life sentence, not a tropical island. The fact that she's lived comfortably for over 40 years creates more of a reason, not less, for her extradition.

[ButterflyBlood]

17. No statute of limitations on murder

A couple years ago I read about a guy in my state who was arrested for a murder committed in the 70s as well.

I don't see anything wrong with at least retrying her. If the trial was bad, then do that. But stating that someone who flees to an undemocratic regime for 40 years gets a free pass on any crimes they committed is quite the stretch. After all had she not fled she'd still likely be serving a life sentence.

[flamingdem]

16. Assata Shakur will never be handed over by Cuba

No way! She's a respected person there.

I met her along with Tom Hayden at the Film Festival there a decade or so ago. Lovely person. I believe she practices "La Religion" and he is Yemaya. Hip Hop fans seek her out because the rumor is that Tupac lives with her, she's his aunt.

[BklnDem75]

18. 'During this time of bold decisions... it is better for the president to pardon Assata.'

In 1973, Shakur was arrested during a traffic stop on the New Jersey Turnpike. A shootout left Assata injured with multiple wounds, the driver, Zayd Shakur, dead, and a state trooper dead. In 1977, after numerous trials, she was convicted of first degree murder of the officer. And in 1979, Shakur escaped and fled to Cuba, where Fidel Castro granted her asylum.

“Assata was falsely charged on numerous occasions in the United States during the early 1970s and vilified by the media,” said scholar and activist Angela Davis in a recent commentary in The Guardian. Davis added Shakur “was charged with armed robbery, bank robbery, kidnap, murder, and attempted murder of a policeman. Although she faced 10 separate legal proceedings, and had already been pronounced guilty by the media, all except one of these trials – the case resulting from her capture – concluded in acquittal, hung jury, or dismissal.”

“Under highly questionable circumstances, she was finally convicted of being an accomplice to the murder of a New Jersey state trooper,” she added.

According to the National Lawyers Guild, who represented Shakur in her final trial, the proceedings were plagued with constitutional violations, including an all-white jury of 15 people, including five jurors who had personal connections to state troopers. A state Assemblyman spoke to jurors while they were sequestered, urging them to convict.


http://thegrio.com/2014/12/18/assata-shakur-us-cuba/

[branford]

20. Obama will pardon Joanne Chesimard right after he pardons Wesley Cook and Bernie Madoff. nt

[BklnDem75]

22. lol...

[MrScorpio]

23. Pardon Assata Shakur! nt

[BklnDem75]

24. +1000

[Starry Messenger]

25. Did they have this kind of energy for the actors in Bridgegate?

[brush]

30. Exactly. Where were all the howls for bring the guilty to justice then? nt

[msanthrope]

29. She will never be pardoned. The thaw will not work to her advantage because the bounty

on her head makes her a prime target.

[branford]

35. That's a fair point.

However, I do not condone vigilante-style justice.

I simply want her returned to US soil to serve her sentence. If she has grounds for appeal, and her time to appeal has not expired due to her own malfeasance, I have no objection to any resort to the courts.

[BlueJazz]

38. I would let her go free.

[eridani]

44. Pardon her for what? She didn't kill anyone

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/18/1352790/-If-Assata-is-a-terrorist-then-Timothy-Loehman-Daniel-Pantaleo-Sean-Williams-are-terrorists

In 1973, after Assata and two of her friends were pulled over by police, a shootout ensued which left one officer and one of her friends dead. The surviving officer, Trooper Harper, initially said he saw Assata with ammunition and a gun and that he shot her because he saw those things, but eventually buckled under cross-examination and admitted he made it all up.

Trooper Harper's official reports state that after he stopped the Pontiac, he ordered Acoli to the back of the vehicle for Trooper Foerster—who had arrived on the scene—to examine his driver's license. The reports then state that after Acoli complied, and as Harper was looking inside the vehicle to examine the registration, Trooper Foerster yelled and held up an ammunition magazine as Shakur simultaneously reached into her red pocketbook, pulled out a nine-millimeter weapon and fired at him. Trooper Harper's reports then state that he ran to the rear of his car and shot at Shakur who had exited the vehicle and was firing from a crouched position next to the vehicle.

Under cross-examination at both Acoli and Shakur's trials, Trooper Harper admitted to having lied in these reports and in his Grand Jury testimony about Trooper Foerster yelling and showing him an ammunition magazine, about seeing Shakur holding a pocketbook or a gun inside the vehicle, and about Shakur shooting at him from the car. Trooper Harper retracted his previous statements and said that he had never seen Shakur with a gun and that she did not shoot him.

In spite of this testimony, Pennsylvania law, which allows an accomplice to murder to be tried and convicted even if they didn't commit the crime itself, allowed a jury to convict Assata on two counts of murder—one for her friend and one for the officer. She didn't kill anyone; the entire event, while tragic, wasn't premeditated; and she was actually shot multiple times in the crossfire. Echoing the shooting death of Mike Brown, a doctor testified on her behalf that Assata was absolutely shot with her hands up. ot with her hands up.

[branford]

48. Whether you like it or not, she was convicted of murder,

and felony murder statutes are ubiquitous and hardly controversial. In any event, any objections to the trial are properly resolved on appeal. No one gets to violently escape from prison without legal repercussions.

She will not be pardoned. Her conviction was at the state level, so Obama could not pardon her even if he wished to do so. I don't see Governor Christie issuing her a pardon or any future governor of NJ.

Given the millions of dollars in bounty from the state and federal governments coupled, the easing of travel restrictions, and public pressure, I expect Chesimard will again soon be a involuntary guest of the State of New Jersey.

[eridani]

57. Nothing could be less relevant

Are you sure there are enough vicious old white people to insist on her return? The majority of cheerleaders for white murdering cops are slowly dying off.