Why are liberal areas always so damn expensive. It always seems if

[RKP5637]

you get away from a population center then the RW mentality kicks in. Don't liberals ever have any small low cost communities.

[coalition_unwilling]

1. Madison, WI is fairly low cost (if you can stand the winters). My Dad

lives in Lawrence, KS which is a moderate-cost island of sanity in a sea of craziness (Kansas).

[patrice]

39. Thank god for Lawrence! I think it's pretty well over that bout of hipper-than-thouness it had goin'

on for about 10 years there. Even with that self-conscious thing, it has still always been and still is one of the oldest and deepest counter-culture centers in the Mid-West. What is referred to as the Old Guard there is an intrinsic part of the city's culture and is also its VERY independent and DIFFERENT self.

[RKP5637]

54. I just can't take KS anymore. With the new Brownback regime in place

to me it's just become a very unpleasant place, except as you say, for the wonderfulness of Lawrence in a sea of craziness.

[Scuba]

68. Winters? What do you mean?

We only get one a year.

[coalition_unwilling]

71. I think of a typical Madison winter much the same way Samuel Johnson referred

to Milton's "Paradise Lost": "No one would have wished it any longer."

[Art_from_Ark]

2. Eureka Springs, Arkansas, is fairly liberal

Median home price is about $115,000

[patrice]

14. Love! Eureka Springs! several nice festivals, Beaver Lake, cool old hotels & restaurants, highqualit

y folk crafts, antiques, many artists . . .

On edit: and BEAUTIFUL country!

[Art_from_Ark]

21. Beautiful country is right

This photo wasn't taken at Eureka Springs, but it was close enough-- Pea Ridge National Military Park, just south of Garfield, and about 20 miles from Eureka Springs via US 62.

[patrice]

38. I'm pretty sure I have stood there and daydreamed on at least a couple of occasions.

[Art_from_Ark]

41. If you have been to the military park,

then you have almost certainly been to that location. It's called Panorama Point, and it's one of the stops on the self-guided tour.

[patrice]

43. Yes, I have been there & up and down the highway through there. Love the little

flea-markets along there.

[Art_from_Ark]

67. I love US 62 north of Rogers

It's like you enter a different world away from the sprawl of Rogers-Bentonville-Springdale-Fayetteville. And yeah, there are quite a few flea markets along that road, and some great roadside fruit and vegetable stands in the summer as well.

[Snake Alchemist]

29. Would love to live there, but besides working for Walmart there is not much employment

Opportunities. I rent a cabin about once a year up there.

[Selatius]

3. I used to live up in Boston years ago, but that was before they gutted rent control laws.

The city has become too expensive since that time. Plenty of poorer folks were against the move, but the wealthier folks who control the city levers of power had more control over the city council and mayor than the poor folks.

[Daalalou]

26. About Boston getting rid of rent control

It was a state-wide referendum, and the only communities that had rent-control laws, Boston, Cambridge and Brookline, voted to keep it. The rest of the state, unaffected by the laws, voted to get rid of it. They were swayed by a campaign that cited stories of doctors still living in the same rent-controlled apartments they'd lived in since they were students, in houses or apartment buildings owned by working class people making a fraction of what the doctors made. Of course, such tales were the exception, not the general condition of people living under rent control, but the stories were persuasive.

[LeftyMom]

4. Those of us in affordable communities aren't telling. Competition for housing would drive up prices.

Did I mention it's really hot here in the summer?

[Saving Hawaii]

12. Do you live where I do?

I won't say either.

I guess we will never know.

[LeftyMom]

58. From your description I think I'm about an hour and a half south.

[MrMickeysMom]

5. More culture, I'm guessing...

instead of agriculture...

[stevedeshazer]

6. Because we vote to pay our fair share in local taxes.

[Bigmack]

63. What you said... only more so...

Liberal areas generally have a higher standard of living, safer streets, less homelessness, more services like libraries.... and on and on.

The conservative areas... red states and counties... generally have the blue states and counties picking up some of their expenses.

Better education, too.. and that's expensive.

Conservative Welfare.

Liberals generally pay their own way.


http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps

[bluestate10]

78. Hail, Hail. nt

[RandySF]

7. How is Ames, Iowa?

[Go Vols]

8. .

I moved back to Mid Tenn. 8 years ago,2800 sq. ft. house built for less than 180k.Best jobs here are union,so plenty of Semi liberal Democrats.

[pnwmom]

9. Are there less expensive areas in the northeast? Places like Vermont?

[Saving Hawaii]

10. I live in a pretty affordable and very liberal community.

But there are not many jobs here.

It's a college town out in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas. Amazing canyons and creeks literally a jog away. Trader Joe's just down the street (from my house anyway). But we have over 10k college students here and that drives the local economy. There are some other good opportunities available but I know many a college student who tried to stay after graduation and simply couldn't find a way to make a respectable living here. Plenty of people do very well but you have to be in the right businesses and trades.

You know, unfortunately, liberalism seems to be tied very closely to population density. And population density is tied very closely to land value. And that means that most liberal locales are not very affordable. There are some (like mine) but you have to find a niche to be able to live in places like these. I'm very happy I was able to.

[Zalatix]

11. I feel your pain. I live in an expensive liberal community.

Hopefully the whole country isn't like that.

[limpyhobbler]

13. Welcome to the Village of Yellow Springs, Ohio. Population 3,487.

Home of Americas liberalest liberal arts school, Antioch College and/or Antioch University. Liberalest small town in America? Maybe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yellow_Springs,_Ohio

[WCGreen]

20. Oberlin as well...

[TheKentuckian]

48. Good one!

One of my biggest regrets is not going to Antioch. Great atmosphere, nice town.

[LeftyMom]

57. Berea, KY too.

As much as I love Kentucky I don't think I could live in a dry town though.

[TheKentuckian]

79. Yeah, great people but I don't even think about living there.

For a metro, Louisville is pretty affordable so I encourage liberals to join us.

[ashling]

15. Haven't you heard?

Its the elitism

[safeinOhio]

16. There are liberal communities within

red towns. They might even me tighter and more supportive than other liberals living in blue towns.
Join the local Democratic party, do charity work or join a local UU Church.

[PassingFair]

17. Detroit, Michigan

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFUQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Falt.coxnewsweb.com%2Fstatesman%2Fmetro%2F081205libs.pdf&ei=8jCZT9fgBcPe0gH0rsWkCg&usg=AFQjCNFFQnBTtfN5LX3lqDtVJC05sLr3qg&sig2=TyQKArtOLm-h4V_rrVHuig


96.3% LIBERAL

Most liberal city in the US, and one of the most affordable.

[cali]

18. Vermont.

Not the cheapest place, but not as expensive as many liberal places. However, long winters are not for those who hate winter.

Oh and it's mostly rural- outside of Burlington.

[Snake Alchemist]

28. Always wanted to move to Vermont, but what would I do?

Seems like it's filled with retired stock brokers.

[patrice]

37. Montpellier is VERY comfortable culture, but you're right, other than the GREAT farms/farm-stores

Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 12:07 PM - Edit history (2)

there's a high ratio of boutiques, coffee-shops, restaurants, bistros, and galleries.

Sweet atmosphere, awesome bar scene, pleasant pace, but jobs are near and dear and it's pretty obvious that tourism is a significant economic factor.

It's kind of like Eureka Springs with a gentle polish.

[cali]

44. Vermont has one of the lowest unemployment rates

in the Country. It's currently 4.8 percent.

And no, everything else isn't boutiques, bistros and galleries.

Agriculture and manufacturing both generate more money than tourism- though tourism is an important revenue generator.

[patrice]

46. I was describing Montpellier in particular, not all of Vermont.

Mentioned the farms/agriculture.

And I corrected my thoughtless use of the word "everything".

[cali]

50. Thanks, but still Montpelier's economy is definitely not

rooted in tourism.

[cali]

49. What do you do now? What do you want to do?

Retired stockbrokers? More like retired journalists (we have scads of them for some reason) lots of artists and writers.

There's an exciting locavore food thing going on all over the state. It's really amazing.

[Snake Alchemist]

51. I currently work for the Federal Government.

When I was in Vermont all I met was people who had come from NYC.

[Little Star]

31. Vermont is one of my most favorite places but...

I could never afford to live there. Massachusetts/Taxachusetts is more affordable. Count yourself lucky Cali.

[cali]

45. I think MA is far more expensive to live in than VT

[bluestate10]

81. The total tax rate in Mass is lower than that in Vermont and 25 other states.

Housing is more expensive in Mass, but sell for more money also, and houses sell quicker in Mass.

[Brickbat]

19. Always? Heh.

[kctim]

22. More people

more government
more crime


You have to pay if you want to play.

[2ndAmForComputers]

65. Why don't we look at crime rates by state?

Census data from 2009: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0308.pdf

I took the liberty to extract the "Violent crime" column and sort by it, from less violent to more violent. Let's see what kind of states we see at the bottom.

Maine 119.9
Vermont 135.1
NewHampshire 169.5
SouthDakota 201.0
Utah 216.2
Wyoming 219.3
NorthDakota 223.6
Virginia 230.0
Idaho 238.5
RhodeIsland 254.3

Wisconsin 259.7
Oregon 261.2
Kentucky 265.5
Hawaii 274.1
Montana 283.9
Iowa 294.5
Connecticut 300.5
Nebraska 305.5
Mississippi 306.7
NewJersey 311.3

WestVirginia 331.2
Washington 338.3
Colorado 340.9
Ohio 358.1
Indiana 366.4
NewYork 385.5
Pennsylvania 388.9
Kansas 412.0
NorthCarolina 414.0
Arizona 423.2

Georgia 432.6
Alabama 459.9
Massachusetts 465.6
California 473.4
Texas 491.4
Missouri 500.3
Michigan 504.4
Oklahoma 510.4
Arkansas 530.3
Maryland 590.0

Florida 612.6
Louisiana 628.4
Alaska 632.6
Delaware 645.1
NewMexico 652.8
Tennessee 666.0
SouthCarolina 675.1
Nevada 704.6
DC 1348.9

[kctim]

73. Why not be accurate

and look at it at the county level?

[2ndAmForComputers]

74. I only found state data from the Census.

Saying that's inaccurate is like saying 3.141592 is inaccurate for pi but 3.14159265358979 is accurate.

[kctim]

76. The OP says "liberal areas"

You cannot measure politics on a state level to determine the lowest cost or safest place to live. You have to do it on a county or even city/town level in order for it to be accurate.

The OP says "liberal areas" are the "population centers." Is it accurate to say Missouri is the fourteenth most violent state? No. But it is fair to say a few counties make Missouri the fourteenth most violent state.

[Aerows]

23. Because who wants to live

around a bunch of selfish RW idiots?

[Cleita]

24. Because they are nicer places with better schools and commons so that every one wants to

move there including RWingers driving up the prices. In my county, all the Dems live along the coast and the rancher GOOPs back in the hills. The hills have fewer services and have to pretty much maintain their own roads, if they maintain them at all, yet they use the police and fire from the coastal towns that the liberals pay for.

[crazylikafox]

25. Anyone know anything about Bloomington Indiana?

I know Indiana's a very red state, but it's a College town. How does it rank on the affordability scale?

[ananda]

27. Yes, I think college towns are probably more liberal.

I live in Austin. The cost of living here is high, but it's worth it.

I rent an apartment in a pricey neighborhood, but it's not unaffordable.

I'm afraid to buy. With my rent comes a nice pool, fitness center, and
complete maintenance.

[snooper2]

30. There's always the woods, pretty easy to find running water

[RKP5637]

33. LOL!!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. Because NOT living in a cesspool of hate costs money.

But the generalization isn't always true. Try Aberdeen, WA. median house value, about $90,000.

[Waiting For Everyman]

34. I'm in one, in MD - 40 minutes' drive from both D.C. and Baltimore.

I live near a small historic city (5 miles away) in a small town which is beautiful, inexpensive, and near a lot going on. It's 2 miles to an interstate ramp. We have Amtrak to D.C. which is nice too. It's not too bad a drive to Philadelphia and Pittsburgh as well. And the beach, the Chesapeake and its rivers, and the mountains (I live at the beginning of the Alleghenys). The Potomac River is 10 miles away. There's lots of park land nearby.

It's beautiful here, and up until recently was predominately a farming area (a lot of them still remain) - nice people, even the conservatives which are in the minority. It's pretty diverse too, I guess the proximity to D.C. as an international city helps there. Good schools, some great universities not far away, and an A+ liberal college "in town".

I recommend it. Born here along with quite a few earlier generations, left and went everywhere else, and returned (for a while I even lived on both coasts at once). I never found anywhere as good, and I wouldn't live anywhere else.

Plus we have Gov. Martin O'Malley, Sen. Barbara Mikulski, and Rep. Elijah Cummings, all of them tops.

[crazylikafox]

35. ok, u got me. Where are u?

I live close to DC also, but it's very expensive where I am. But I'm lucky to have Elijah Cummings as my rep! I'm retired, so I'm looking to move a little further out where it's more affordable. Are u near Frederick?

[Waiting For Everyman]

36. Yes, you guessed it.

Try the Middletown Valley area in general, the South Mountain (Boonsboro) side being less expensive than the Catoctin Mountain (Frederick) side, which is still good compared to where you are. Check too on I-340 from Frederick to the Potomac, and down to Point of Rocks.

[crazylikafox]

42. Thank you! I'll have to take a ride out there soon to look around.

[Waiting For Everyman]

52. Fwiw, just to give an idea...

Unfortunately these are in the winter, but here are two pics taken standing on Braddock Ridge on Catoctin Mountain looking westward out over Middletown Valley toward South Mountain in the distance. You'd never know it but there's a growing little town down there, Middletown.



This one is from the same spot, facing more southward, toward Jefferson.



Some local web sites:
http://www.middletown.md.us/

http://frederickcountymd.gov/

http://www.cityoffrederick.com/

[crazylikafox]

62. great pics. I grew up in the PA mountains, so it looks like home.

Are there any local hangouts where I might find some progressive friends?

[Waiting For Everyman]

69. There are

but I'm not so "up on" specifics, as I've been out of circulation a long time caring for an ill husband who passed away a while ago. I'm not as involved socially as I plan to be soon. Of the hangouts downtown I'm not sure which ones would be more progressive these days. The Coffee Company used to be a good spot but I don't know if it still is.

Even "out of it" though, I know progressives are always at events connected to the creative outlets like the Weinberg Theatre, Frederick Magazine, the art galleries like Delaplaine Center, or Hood College and the community college etc. I will be hooking up with the local Democratic party and the Obama campaign in the next couple of weeks. I had intended to by now, but the timing got set back a little by family stuff.


Sources of info on events, groups, etc...

http://www.gazette.net/frederickcounty#

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/

http://www.fredericktourism.org/calendar/index

http://www.frederickdemocrats.org/get-involved/democratic-clubs/


I hope that helps

[crazylikafox]

72. Thanks!

[LibertyLover]

75. That looks like a lovely area of Maryland

Right now because I work in DC we live in Edgewater in AACo. It's ok, but when I retire we will be moving. We want to stay reasonably close to Baltimore for the medical care and DC for the museums, so FredCo seems a good compromise. My only problem is that I don't want to move my daughter to another school system for high school which, if I have to retire in 3 years (right now where I work has mandatory retirement at age 62, but we're hoping the Board will change it soon) we'd be doing. So we might have to postpone any moves until she goes to college. But we'll certainly keep Middletown in mind.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

55. My best friend lives in Boonsboro.

Nice little town. Not too expensive, either.

[Waiting For Everyman]

70. I like it too, your friend picked a good spot.

My great-grandma owned a house there after the Civil War very much like this one... renovated by novelist Nora Roberts into a not-bad Inn. As NR is quoted as saying, I used to pass by that building and think it needed some love too, I'm glad it got some...

http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/queen-of-the-romance-novel-nora-roberts-has-her-own-inn/

Not far from there on the top of South Mountain is a monument erected to Civil War journalists, which is something you don't see every day. I think it's called Gathland State Park or Gapland, I forget which. It's close to the town of Burkittsville, which is another cool town, but smaller. (Supposedly that's where the Blair Witch Project was filmed, which I'm sure is a lot of nonsense but at least interesting.)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

82. I've been there (to the Civil War journalist monument).

My friend is a Civil War buff, so there's no coincidence that he chose to live there. It's only a few miles away from the Antietam Battlefield.

There is also the first monument ever completed to George Washington on top of South Mountain.

[patrice]

40. This is why we need committed efforts to create & to build co-operatives. nt

[RKP5637]

47. We really do. Even with the recession the cost of housing in many areas is

ridiculous and many of them are sh** houses and neighborhoods. And now the banks are trying to make a killing on short sales. What an absolutely ridiculous egregious place the US has become in my lifetime.

[magical thyme]

53. back just before the election in '08 I took a drive around midcoast Maine

Checking out the political signs for where to move to when I finally am able to sell my mini-farm here in the redneck armpit of the midcoast.

Belfast won 1st prize. I counted 0 -- yes, zero -- McCane/Failin signs within the village limites. It was a sea of blue. There was also an anti-war sign on the lawn of the whatiz (dam, I forget those not military but whatever things in villages...dam). And to add a touch of nostalgia, there was actually a peace march going on in the village green with at least half a dozen people, young and old, carrying anti-war signs and marching in a circle!

You have to be able to stand the long, cold winters (at least until global warming really kicks in). And not much for work. But it is an incredibly picturesque little seaside village with probably nothing going on in the winter, but plenty in the summer.

I also was surprised to find whole patches of areas in the mountains with nothing but blue signs. Totally rural, and frankly I forget exactly where I was. Inland, headed south from Belfast...

[librechik]

56. they start out as poor neighborhoods students and artists can afford to live in

Then the wealthy wannabes move in and drive the rent up--forcing the poor students and artists out. Then the wealthy wannabes complain about how the neighborhood has become boring. But they don't move out because now it's an investment.

I don't know where they can go once everything gets gentrified. Rich people (landlords) in general are extraordinarily greedy and stupid. They shoot themselves in the foot with their greed.

[Zorra]

60. That is so right on.

Back in the day, in many rural areas of the west, old school "hippies" traveling the country would find some really beautiful cool place to squat and buy some cheap land, and start doing crafts, arts, etc. and carve a unique niche that had a good peaceful vibe. The place would get a reputation as a great place to hang. Yuppies often came in and bought the "hippies" out, or bought up land in the surrounding area, etc.

I like these lyrics by Don Henley, from the Eagles tune

The Last Resort

...She heard about a place people were smilin'
They spoke about the red man's way,
and how they loved the land
And they came from everywhere
to the Great Divide
Seeking a place to stand
or a place to hide

Down in the crowded bars,
out for a good time,
Can't wait to tell you all,
what it's like up there
And they called it paradise
I don't know why
Somebody laid the mountains low
while the town got high

Then the chilly winds blew down
Across the desert
through the canyons of the coast, to
the Malibu
Where the pretty people play,
hungry for power
to light their neon way
and give them things to do

Some rich men came and raped the land,
Nobody caught 'em
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes, and Jesus,
people bought 'em
And they called it paradise
The place to be
They watched the hazy sun, sinking in the sea....

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eagles/thelastresort.html

[librechik]

61. thx, Zorra--I'm a Colorado native, so I know exactly what Henley is talking about!

I think he's talking about Nederland, North of Boulder--but it could as well be Aspen or Telluride.

In 1973 I moved to Telluride--FOR THE CHEAP RENT! I found a place for $25 a month.

That same place later became a protected low income residence and the occupant was able to buy it "cheap" from the City--maybe half a mill!

[Arugula Latte]

59. Liberal areas are more desirable -- more culture, better restaurants, usually prettier areas

[Dawson Leery]

64. Better education too.

[stevenleser]

66. More culture, more educational institutions, more jobs,more interesting people all = more demand. nt

[bluestate10]

77. Liberals are typically smart, well educated people that do well financially.

And build great support environments around them. Major parts of downtrodden cities have become hot spots when liberals moved into them and started improving properties and setting up novel businesses. That observation from a moderate who often cross swords with liberals.

[RKP5637]

80. Yep, that's pretty much what I've observed too. Thanks! n/t