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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGeorge Zimmerman is part black.
He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425
It is an interesting story.
Justice wanted
(2,657 posts)Mexicans. Both are Latino nationalities.
Thinking more--I don't know what to make of this story... Just strange.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)(there is some validity there though--especially when I read about how Batista treated Black Cubans) and vice versa.
CherokeeDem
(3,709 posts)I lived in Miami for 10 years and a White Cuban woman who worked in my office told me she could care less about the people left in Cuba...they were all black. Yeah...racism takes a variety of forms. She also hated Puerto Ricans...called them scum.
Fortunately, she was not a good employee and I had to terminate her for cause. While I kept my serious face on as I fired her...my secret happy face was grinning. Karma...
Edited to identify the woman as a White Cuban..
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)that racism had been pretty much eliminated. Since this white Cuban was an emigre, maybe it was the racists who fled the island?
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)This is mainly because they had all the money before Castro then came here. PBS did a nice documentary on it called "Black in Latin America".
Taverner
(55,476 posts)They made a good effort to do so, but old habits die hard
vaberella
(24,634 posts)I'm fully aware of it.
Gman
(24,780 posts)I can tell you the feeling is mutual from Mexicans toward Cubans. Just because people are Hispanic doesn't mean there is any solidarity. That's a big misunderstanding.
Justice wanted
(2,657 posts)bearded clam
(3 posts)Mexicans towards Puerto Ricans, also. It's the "Black" thing... And Mexico doesn't exactly broadcast their Afro-roots either.
zbdent
(35,392 posts)eShirl
(18,490 posts)I guess he wasn't antisemitic after all!
(edit: and part African, too )
http://newscastmedia.com/blog/2010/08/25/dna-shows-hitler-was-part-african-part-jewish/
vaberella
(24,634 posts)That didn't stop his massacre of thousands to millions of Haitians in Dominican Republic around the same time Hitler was having his own massacre on Jews. But I guess that was Trujillo's way of showing love and he most certainly did not associate or consider himself to be part Haitian.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The worst racists may often be working out some sort of rejection of themselves. After all, they are often the same ones who think one drop of the undesired blood "taints" the person as the undesired race.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)It's been said somewhere that the things that we dislike in others the most are often ones we ourselves, share.
a kind of self-loathing.
LeftofObama
(4,243 posts)purple with pink polka dots. He murdered that child plain and simple!
(responding to the article, not you personally)
Cosmocat
(14,563 posts)it got turned into a national clusterscrew because the moron locals did not deal with it properly at the time.
End of the day, the lunatic stalked and executed some poor kid minding his own business.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)17 isn't a "child".
marmar
(77,073 posts)nt
pipoman
(16,038 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)17 is not a grownup by a long shot. It's closer to being a child than a grown man or woman. Try to think back to when you were 17 and then convince anyone that you were a grown man or woman.
bearded clam
(3 posts)Who would think a boy that young could be that tall?
vaberella
(24,634 posts)Therefore he is a child. He has no money to support himself, he still bows to the authority of his parents. Hell in order for Trayvon to even go to the 7-11 that night he had to ask permission from his father. What adult has to ask their dad for permission? He is therefore a child and had years and years ahead of him.
I don't understand why you think it's disingenuous...it's disingenuous for you to suggest otherwise.
treestar
(82,383 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)When a 17-year-old commits a terrible crime, few call that teen a "child," unless they are arguing against trying minors as adults.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)is per-pubescent.
marmar
(77,073 posts)Was he old enough to vote?
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)He was absolutely a child in that his brain is not fully formed to make adult decisions. In fact a 17 year old is closer to a toddler than an adult in the way they think.
12 year old girls menstruate, they are still children.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)age demographic which is most likely to commit murder. I would just like this case to move forward on the merits of the case without the inflammatory nonsense. Seventeen isn't a "child" in the eyes of the law nor in most people's mind. It is used in this case to make this tragedy seem worse, and the accused to seem more like a monster.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)and suicide because they don't understand permanence and they lack frontal cortex closures. Hence why they are closer to toddlers than adults.
The only inflammatory nonsense is the kind coming from people who want to pretend that George Zimmerman was in fear for his life from a child who was armed with skittles.
uncle ray
(3,156 posts)before he fucking killed him.
oh, and BTW, Zimmerman himself said he thought Trayvon was older when he shot him. apparently even he thinks Trayvon was too young to die.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)I developed early because I have a pre-existing condition called PCOS I produce more male hormones means hair in certain parts. I had hair at 11...are you saying I was no longer a child?
Because then you're full of crock.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)A person that experiences puberty at 9 or 10 is not a child ... a person that doesn't experience puberty until they are 14 remain a child until that time.
Clearly, complete idiocy. We tend to recognize two groups of people: children and adults.
The age of 18 (acknowledging the arbitrariness of this line) is the accepted demarcation.
I can't imagine anyone insisting that Trayvon Martin wasn't a kid ... unless of course they have an agenda.
CatWoman
(79,295 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)some people might rather see the word boy used instead of child. But we do not use that word for obvious reasons.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)At least in the USA.
Someone who legally cannot sign themselves out of school is a child.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)Vanje
(9,766 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)George Zimmerman isn't black
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)when talking about black males. So we use the world child, which still fits, since he was 17 years old.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)Hell, I still call my over 18 yet under 25 nieces and nephews "child".
And they always call me "uncle".
Trayvon was still a minor
Response to dkf (Original post)
Post removed
vaberella
(24,634 posts)Like ALL Black Americans and Afro Caribbean peoples have White roots...what does that mean. I'm sure many of the White Power freaks in the US may have some Native American, African, East Asian, Mexican, or all of the above in their "roots" -- yet it means shit in how they are identified in the US and how they themselves. Your post means nothing by and large. Don't justify his actions and find ways to marginalize the racial impact by suggesting he has Black roots.
CatWoman
(79,295 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,844 posts)Nostradammit
(2,921 posts)Always true to form.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Would you rather not know? Personally I always like more info.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)That's like telling me blood is blue before it becomes oxygenated...Okay and what can I do with that information?
dkf
(37,305 posts)Nuance than charges that it was a racially based hate crime.
LaurenG
(24,841 posts)In my opionion it was a hate crime, he hated that some stranger was in his "yard" and like a big shot thought he knew better than the police. Not only was it a racist crime it is sexist. Do you think he would have shot a white female with tea and skittles?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Tells a different story.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)How are you doing Nadin? Hope all is well with you.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)My eyes glaze.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Well, at least they haven't snapped shut in protest yet. Good luck finishing it with your sanity intact.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)What's your point? That he can't possibly hate Black people?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Would you rather not know?"
Really depends on if the information is relevant, or irrelevant and meant simply to minimize the relevant aspects of a story.
Although I am certain that you can elucidate us all and, with the "more info" you supply, you also allow us the precise relevance of the information as it relates to the story as whole...
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Of course not, it's noise. It has no value; there is no "precise relevance of the information".
It's as irrelevant as the content of Trayvon's Facebook page or the occupations of the witnesses.
LaurenG
(24,841 posts)Seriously why is it important to know Zimmerman's ancestry? Why is this information relevant to you?
Chan790
(20,176 posts)When we talk about informatics and even semiotics from a communications standpoint, one of the key distinctions we need to make is that between signal and noise. Signal is that message or content that is relevant, cogent and of value or utility. Noise is the static and piles of irrelevant data intentionally or unintentionally broadcast which muddy the water, make the facts less-clear and distort reality.
More information is not useful when that additional information is of no value or utility. Noise can be incredibly valuable as a tool to the activist or professional however. Bury the opponent's signal in minutia and you can drown them out.
Jeez, they teach that the first week of most communications, marketing and PR programs.
More info is not better info. As my partner always says: "If you can't astound them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."
Spazito
(50,290 posts)The OP strikes me as being of the "noise" quality rather than of the "signal" quality. Major noise factor.
GeorgeGist
(25,319 posts)See the difference?
vaberella
(24,634 posts)S/he seems to exhibit no real concern over knowing more about Trayvon--except if Trayvon did something to warrant his own death.
Dogtown
(4,668 posts)He's been threatening billy goats for a long damn time...
Rex
(65,616 posts)This is programming afterall and your information goes against that programming.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Such great concern
Anarcho-Socialist
(9,601 posts)Was Zimmerman ever perceived as "black" in day-to-day life? I doubt it.
dkf
(37,305 posts)He doesn't look white.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Doubt it...
vaberella
(24,634 posts)LaurenG
(24,841 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 08:17 AM - Edit history (1)
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)LaurenG
(24,841 posts)somewhere.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Trayvon must have been a real threat?
What is your point? That skittles are deadly? That a black teenager with a hoodie is an automatic deadly threat? That Zimmerman is innocent of murder? Really, what's your point?
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)encounter. This was always about a young boy encountering stupid. George Zimmerman was just stupid and so is the SYG law.
LAGC
(5,330 posts)It offers no protection if you go out of your way to provoke a confrontation as Zimmerman did.
It will be ruled to be inadmissible in court. Watch.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)I don't think SYG will or should have any influence on this case.
But I think the SYG law can be taken advantage of and used as an excuse to kill anyone.
For instance, I once walked into the wrong house by mistake because I wasn't paying attention. Can the owner of the house just shoot me? People make wrong assumptions about the activities of other people all the time.
marmar
(77,073 posts).....I'm sorry, but if he hadn't been a young black male, I suspect he'd still be alive. He was clearly profiled.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)an unconscious racial component to it. But most of the tragedy was born out of pure stupidity on Zimmerman's part.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 08:33 AM - Edit history (1)
is to proclaim this a race crime (hate crime). Isn't it bad enough being what it is? Where do these accusations of racism gain their truth? I think the media and racist orgs (like The New Black Panthers) have worked up a bunch of people into a lather about racism, bringing out the "string him up, it'll teach him a lesson" crowd..
Edit for accuracy..
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)ronnie624
(5,764 posts)not about whether Zimmerman himself was racist.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)is probably not the person to tell me what is and isn't important about the story.
TZ
(42,998 posts)And sadly a lot of them utter racist garbage. Should that excuse them? No. This is even less relevant than the "he's Latino he can't be racist" bullshit. I'm sorry but people's behavior is not linked to what race they are or aren't. And its also racist trash to assume that since he has that heritage he can't behave badly towards AA's.
ananda
(28,858 posts)That's some orchestrated character remake, I must say.
reminds me of Animal Farm --
Guntoting neighborhood guy good --- Black teenage robbers bad.
See?
undeterred
(34,658 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)ejbr
(5,856 posts)What will the wingnuts grasp onto now?
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)My sister-in-law is 100% Mexican. And she hates Mexicans. She's joked that we should switch ethnicities. I have been told countless times "Don't go over by that Walmart, that's where all the wetbacks, narcos, and border jumpers hang out." She doesn't know Spanish, nor does she allow her kids to learn it. Yet, I've asked her if her kids will check the "Latino" box, or whatever the hell it's called, when it's time for college.
Her answer, of course, is yes. Ridiculous.
In Latin America, FYI, you are what you identify with. Example: one can be an indigenous person by blood, but in no way identify or be identified as such; case in point with "Mayan" members of the Guatemalan military slaughtering Mayan peasants during the Civil War. Those members of the military likely did not in any way identify with an indigenous ancestry or culture. In many (not all) parts of Latin America, your skin color is really not that relevant. This has a long history that most Americans do not fathom because it's very different up here.
This is especially true of people of mixed ancestry, and especially true of indigenous folks.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I've seen Latin and South Americans who have disliked each other based on country of origin. I've also heard of much discrimination against those of perceived indigenous heritage in different countries. A friend was appalled on a visit to Ecuador by racist statements by his relatives there against indigenous peoples. I've met very indigenous-looking immigrants here who immediately denied having any such heritage at all.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)I've just finished explaining this to my students (several times) this semester.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)He still pulled the trigger so the court will have to decide if he's innocent.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)TahitiNut
(71,611 posts)It's a red herring to constantly narrow the focus of racism on Zimmerman. Clearly, Zimmerman has LOTS of "issues" ... authoritarian, seeing people in terms of "types" and categories, cowardice, etc. But the appalling aspect of this whole sorry debacle is the institutional racism that casually gave Zimmerman a "pass" and failed to treat Trayvon and his family as being worthy of the ordinary concern and respect that would be (unquestionably!) afforded if Trayvon were white.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)GOTV
(3,759 posts)Can anyone beat that?
Iggo
(47,549 posts)...to protect himself from pit bulls.
Did I win?
stlsaxman
(9,236 posts)is the defense gonna hold a paper bag next to Zimmermans skin to prove his innocence next?
Crowman1979
(3,844 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)But he did a hatbor a suspicion of young black males that cost Trayvon Martin his life and him his liberty. If it wasn't for lax gun laws this tragedy could have been avoided.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
ProSense
(116,464 posts)BklnDem75
(2,918 posts)Are you saying because these roots exist, Zimmerman wasn't really racial profiling Trayvon?
treestar
(82,383 posts)Also, racism could be his way of avoiding his own black heritage.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You need to email this to Angela Corey. Maybe she'll drop it to a manslaughter charge or maybe even dismiss charges altogether.
This is highly relevant information to this case.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)Black, White, Brown and any shade or percentage of minority doesn't mean shit.
He killed an unarmed teen for no reason other than the teen being Black...
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Weird OP.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)because one of my grandparents wasn't white.
Exceedingly weird OP.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)jpak
(41,757 posts)yup
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)In the rift valley to be exact.
jpak
(41,757 posts)fossil evidence - bane of the KKK
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)If it weren't for Africans, we wouldn't even be here.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)You can still have black roots and be a racist.
Rex
(65,616 posts)It does not. Wow...that article does everything to help Zimmerman and flat out lies in parts. When will they be doing a 'fair and balanced' story on Martin...you know the kid they let rot in a morgue and the SPD helped cover up the murder?
Fluff stories do nothing but entrench a persons belief that they are right, so thanks for posting it!
Response to dkf (Original post)
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librechik
(30,674 posts)move along. Nothing to see here.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)If its irrelevant to you then fine.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)But true.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)At least that's what people who try disregard the relevance of white privilege are always telling me.
Right after that, they tell me that it's unfair.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)they identify themselves so if GZ identified himself as White then his having Black ancestors is immaterial.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)i don't recall so that's why i'm asking.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)it's fascinating to watch the progression of ideas needed to maintain your opinion on the Zimmerman case.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)There are self hating people in all the minority communities whether that community is the LGBT community, the Jewish community, Hispanics, women, African Americans, etc., even when someone is 100% part of that background.
It's obvious that Zimmerman had a problem with black people.
JI7
(89,247 posts)RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)I have no idea myself of course, it's just what I heard, you know.
RL
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)just this week Ratigan had a guest who was an expert and talked about it. This man had done a study and said KKK memebers have black roots too.
cr8tvlde
(1,185 posts)statute will be near impossible for a fair and impartial jury to determine in this case, IMHO, particularly in light of the article above. It would be easier if GZ had been a member of some neo-nazi group. But then again, he wouldn't have qualified.
Bruce Wayne
(692 posts)Zimmerman didn't self identify as black. He shot a kid who he thought was black. He felt like he had the right to confront this kid in part because he was black kid. As a result of that confrontation, he shot that kid.
This isn't really about race. It's about Americans' attitudes toward race.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)This changes everything!!! No need for an investigation! And certainly no need for a trial!
Zimmerman is automatically guilty of whatever charges are against him. Isn't that how it usually works for black people?
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)5 members have recommended this thread (displayed in chronological order):
Sienna86 ananda jpak horseshoecrab Queasy Rider
vaberella
(24,634 posts)The first, second and third. Huh...they kind of support each other I guess.
Baitball Blogger
(46,700 posts)I said it from the beginning. The question is where has he been getting his indoctrination?
tnvoter
(257 posts)what he did is still wrong.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)They went ballistic over media references to Zimmerman as a 'white Hispanic' (they can't abide the idea of his being classified as a 'white' anything).
Initially, white power blogs responded with protestations that, "technically, Zimmerman is a 'mestizo.'" While they take his side, they go to great pains make it clear that he is not one of them. Apparently, the 'mestizo' idea wasn't good enough, so...
Now this.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)what's your point? that he couldn't be racists toward blacks? if so, that is quite naive.
varelse
(4,062 posts)he doesn't seem to be aware of it. Perhaps a tragic stalking and murder could have been averted if only he had known the truth about himself.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)thank god for an anus that guides our posts
Rex
(65,616 posts)both holes open up (anus and mouth) our bodies decide we should talk from the opposite end and then BAM out we come. I believe that might be what happened to dfkcbcbc.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Especially with your numerous posts bemoaning the fixation of race. Anyways, whether Zimmerman is racist or not doesn't disprove that he is if he is. I knew someone who had a grandfather that is black (IIRC, wasn't biologically related) that he pretty much considered the greatest man in the world as he responded to his grandmother's very difficult behavior with love and understanding. Took the worst kinds of verbal abuse and would not react with anger. This was before I knew the prejudices he held even though there were hints I misread like the time he asked me if I would have a problem watching Blazing Saddles which I said I didn't, he said something like, "A lot of white people complain and say 'I thought racism was dead'" I said it satirizes racism he didn't say anything to that but later I found he enjoyed Blazing Saddles because of the racial remarks such as "The sheriff...". Anyways, when I learned of his true feelings I quit hanging around him and it was interesting but not surprising he didn't show his racism in the presence of black people.
Also black people can be racist against black people as evidenced by editorials by Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson which I won't link to the hate site that features them.
Rex
(65,616 posts)And it worked.