Here's the specific things that Hillary's done to earn my vote:

[MannyGoldstein]

Please share your story, below.

[rug]

1. She pisses off republicans even more than Obama.

[sabrina 1]

39. Except for Rupert Murdoch and Henry Kissenger and Newt Gingrich and 'The Family'

and the Bushes who just love Bill 'he's like a son to me' Barbara Buss, other than that, who knows?

[benz380]

72. Correct!!!

[rug]

93. I'm sure they're all donating millions to her campaign.

No, they're not?

[Man from Pickens]

81. Her relationship with McCain is pretty cozy

[Orsino]

164. Well, she's still useful as an effigy for the rubes.

But I don't think that's the same thing as pissing off the leadership.

[Bonobo]

2. Here's mine.

Because, remember, she's NOT Bill Clinton.

Oh wait, that's not a reason.

[aspirant]

21. Because she's the long-surviving wife

of the cheating "Billy Jeff" Clinton. Does this really count?

[benz380]

73. 'long-suffering'. n/t

[olddots]

101. ah I for norhing .

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. Because she has far, far more experience in foreign affairs than

any of the prospective Democratic candidates.

Oh ... was not meant to be taken seriously ... I was supposed to post some snarky, witty response than Rec the thread and high five all the other snarky witty replies. Right?

[Vattel]

4. You could just avoid posting instead of getting nasty right from the get go.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. Sorry for harshing your giddy. n/t.

[msanthrope]

59. You know I have to steal that phrase, right? nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. Please do ...

apparently ... the fan club, either: doesn't recognize a troll OP, or ignore the obvious troll intent because it gives them an opportunity to bash a (potential) Democratic candidate ... but either way, they clearly do not like it when others point out either.

[JustAnotherGen]

82. New sig line!

[Bobbie Jo]

84. LOL!

"harshing your giddy."

[Brigid]

100. 1SBM, I think you have a hit on your hands.

[Caffeine Free]

7. I, for one, don't support the concept of globalization..

and that's where Hillary Clinton is heading towards....

Therefore, we do not need to be spending billions on foreign aid nor do we need to send our military overseas.

Those things costs billions - and since the elite doesn't care much for us, we need to find a way to either:

1) reduce the amount of aid we spend and focus primarily on domestic issues
2) reduce the amount of military shit that we send overseas.

Bernie Sanders understands all of this, and that's why he's more interested in focusing on domestic issues. Every nation in the world wants America to leave them alone. Let's do it, and just focus on ourselves, and that's what I've been advocating for the last 20 years. We need to divest ourselves from the MIC and reinvest on ourselves.

While I'm still on my soapbox, I am all for the rich to pay more in taxes, and ending all loopholes for them to avoid it. If they do business here in the United States, they have to pay their fair share to help support America, not enrich some CEO. That defeats the purpose.

[Logical]

19. Really? So you think the biggest problems we have to do with foreign issues? nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. That was not the question I was responding to; but, ...

maybe not the biggest ... but certainly A VERY IMPORTANT consideration.

Ironically, by screwing up an (unimportant) foreign policy decision, the economic-first candidate could help address what you seem to think is the ONLY issue ... (just like with WWII) it'll move a bunch of folks out of poverty and juice up the middleclass ... it could, also, kill off a bunch of young men/women who are just about to/just recently enter(ed) the workforce, so there would be a labor shortage (less competition for jobs), meaning raising wages.

So your right screw foreign policy!

[leftynyc]

60. If I'd bothered to see who posted the OP

I would have scrolled right by. Nothing substantive ever, only snark.

[1StrongBlackMan]

71. LOL ...

So to you WHO posts something taints WHAT that person posted?

You are invited to scroll right by whatever you wish; but, did I NOT answer the "specific thing" question?

[leftynyc]

79. I wasn't talking about you

I was talking about the OP poster. You did exactly what he asked for which wasn't what he was looking for at all. He was looking for more snark and you didn't oblige.

[1StrongBlackMan]

85. Oh, Okay. My bad. n/t

[jeff47]

89. Yes, she did great working on the TPP and other free trade deals.

'Course I'm rather opposed to free trade deals.....

[sheshe2]

153. +1000

[onehandle]

5. Hillary Clinton’s Greatest Credential

Pundits sometimes struggle to describe the signature accomplishments of Hillary Clinton, as she begins to contemplate a second candidacy for the U.S. Presidency. While her tenure as Secretary of State is generally admired, analysts often point to a lack of headline-grabbing peace deals, historic treaties, or any kind of “Clinton Doctrine” as evidence of a kind of second tier status for her time as America’s top diplomat.

Yet they ignore what is — in my view — the greatest single accomplishment of any living U.S. public servant.

Over the last quarter century, Hillary Clinton has managed to put the interests of women and girls atop the global development agenda.

She didn’t do it alone — her partners ranged from her husband, to the United Nations, to a network of brave human rights leaders around the world, to global and regional NGOs, to the man who defeated her for the 2008 Democratic nomination for President.

https://medium.com/@tomwatson/hillary-clintons-greatest-credential-af4513497d51

Oh shit. We forgot about the wimmen. Wimmen will put her over the top and her coattails will DECIMATE the orangemanturtleman/Koch HouseSenate in 2016.

And wimmen will have her back during mid-terms. Count on it.

[msanthrope]

8. Thread win. And you are correct.....when all the mansplaining is done

about how we wimmen need to vote for the next guy.....we will have her back.

[hifiguy]

147. Hope that righteousness pays for your food and heat

when she globalizes your job away.

[msanthrope]

150. I'm a criminal defense attorney. I seriously doubt my job is getting "globalized" anytime soon. nt

[AtomicKitten]

23. What about defending the interests of women Bill diddled?

She stood beside her cheating husband and called the women he cheated with liars and covered up his sexual harassment of other women.

And what about children?

She defended a child rapist with the "she's a little slutty, a little nutty" defense, a virtual assault against the 12-year-old victim, later laughing that she had saved the child rapist from prison.

Hillary is no warrior for women and children. It's a myth perpetrated by people too lazy to do the research.

[wildbilln864]

26. hmmmm, thanks. n/t

[joshcryer]

29. Nice RW talking points.

[AtomicKitten]

32. The truth has no political affiliation.

[joshcryer]

34. If it was true.

She couldn't recuse herself from the case without losing her license and her admittedly nasty statements were more about winning the case. The fact that she could successfully defend someone she felt was guilty actually shows she knows how to get the job done.

She has no requirement to involve herself in what consenting adults do, and if she believed her husband over them, that was perhaps a slight of judgement. All evidence points to her not realizing what was happening.

The Great Right Wing Conspiracy was and is real, Ken Starr spent $70 million going after the Clinton's. In the end the case consisted entirely of the Lewinsky scandal.

If you would actually read the link posted by onehandle you'd see all of the actual substantive actions she's taken in her life for women and children, rather than dredging up right wing talking points that have little if nothing to do with her future campaign.

[AtomicKitten]

36. Ask the victim: "Hillary Clinton put me through hell."

Last edited Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:47 AM - Edit history (2)

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/hillary-clinton-dogged-by-1975-rape-case/

http://familyrights.us/news/archive/2008/feb/lawyer_clinton_for_defense.htm

In May 1975, Washington County prosecutor Mahlon Gibson called Rodham, who had taken over the law clinic months earlier, to tell her she'd been appointed to represent a hard-drinking factory worker named Thomas Alfred Taylor, who had requested a female attorney.

In her 2003 autobiography "Living History," Clinton writes that she initially balked at the assignment, but eventually secured a lenient plea deal for Taylor after a New York-based forensics expert she hired "cast doubt on the evidentiary value of semen and blood samples collected by the sheriff's office."

However, that account leaves out a significant aspect of her defense strategy - attempting to impugn the credibility of the victim, according to a Newsday examination of court and investigative files and interviews with witnesses, law enforcement officials and the victim.

Rodham, records show, questioned the sixth grader's honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. She implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men" like Taylor, according to a July 1975 affidavit signed "Hillary D. Rodham" in compact cursive.

-- snip

During her first few months on the case, Rodham fired off no fewer than 19 subpoenas, affidavits and motions - almost as much paper as was typical for a capital murder case that year, according to case files on microfilm.

She successfully petitioned to obtain Taylor's underwear for independent testing after the state medical examiner found traces of semen and blood. She also secured Taylor's release on $5,000 bond after getting his boss at the factory to vouch for him.

But the record shows that Rodham was also intent on questioning the girl's credibility. That line of defense crystallized in a July 28, 1975, affidavit requesting the girl undergo a psychiatric examination at the university's clinic.

"I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing," wrote Rodham, without referring to the source of that allegation. "I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body."

Dale Gibson, the investigator, doesn't recall seeing evidence that the girl had fabricated previous attacks. The assistant prosecutor who handled much of the case for Mahlon Gibson died several years ago. The prosecutor's files on the case, which would have included such details, were destroyed more than decade ago when a flood swept through the county archives, Mahlon Gibson said. Those files also would have included the forensics evidence referenced in "Living History."

The victim was visibly stunned when handed the affidavit by a reporter this fall. "It kind of shocks me - it's not true," she said. "I never said anybody attacked my body before, never in my life."

[joshcryer]

41. As would ANY defending counsel in such a case.

That's their job. It fucking sucks but that's how it is.

Are you arguing that defending attorneys should let their clients lose if they feel that they're guilty? Because that would be far more damaging, imo.

And remember, Clinton had the case forced upon her as a civic duty. She couldn't go "Oh, fuck this guy, I think he's guilty, I quit." That's a one way ticket to disbarment.

It seems every single criticism of Clinton is about making sure she gives in to "the man" at every turn, cutting her down for working for a corporate law firm, cutting her down for working for Wal-Mart, cutting her down for doing her civic duty as a public defender and winning the case.

Reality check. Hillary Clinton has acted at every turn in her entire life in a manner that allowed her to achieve a better political position and to serve the people. This is a fact that, as you will see in one short year, will be proven again and again and again.

And you can complain, and bitch, and moan, and be totally repulsed, and carry water for Republicans, it doesn't matter. Hillary Clinton has devoted her life to civil service. And it's her time to shine.

[AtomicKitten]

42. Have you no sense of decency, sir?

[joshcryer]

45. I don't cut down a woman doing what she could.

At the time she lived in.

Unlike you.

[AtomicKitten]

46. I'll take that as a no.

[joshcryer]

50. Glad we agree.

You apparently have no qualms cutting down a woman who, in actuality, factually, worked for human rights her whole life.

[msanthrope]

62. She was appointed counsel and she didn't do anything I wouldn't

have. Jeebus...it's not like she voluntarily took up for Nazi's.

[AtomicKitten]

63. ... including impugning a 12-year-old's integrity:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/02/24/463280/-Wow-Clinton-Attacked-12-Year-Old-Rape-Victim-s-Credibility-UPDATED

and then misrepresenting it in her book:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6154947

[msanthrope]

65. I've never not questioned a witnesses' credibility. ...not a single one, regardless

of age, or who they were.

I would have asked for a psych exam if I had uncovered prior unfounded accusations. Hell..I defended a guy who was accused of raping a psychiatric patient....you think I took the victim at her word?

[AtomicKitten]

68. --

From link I already provided:

But the record shows that Rodham was also intent on questioning the girl's credibility. That line of defense crystallized in a July 28, 1975, affidavit requesting the girl undergo a psychiatric examination at the university's clinic.

"I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing," wrote Rodham, without referring to the source of that allegation. "I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body."

Dale Gibson, the investigator, doesn't recall seeing evidence that the girl had fabricated previous attacks. The assistant prosecutor who handled much of the case for Mahlon Gibson died several years ago. The prosecutor's files on the case, which would have included such details, were destroyed more than decade ago when a flood swept through the county archives, Mahlon Gibson said. Those files also would have included the forensics evidence referenced in "Living History."

The victim was visibly stunned when handed the affidavit by a reporter this fall. "It kind of shocks me - it's not true," she said. "I never said anybody attacked my body before, never in my life."

[msanthrope]

90. And? I wouldn't have revealed the source of an allegation without a court order, and I wouldn't

expect an investigator to remember the details of every single case they worked on, thirty years after the fact. I also would have highly questioned the fact that earlier in the evening, the 12 year old engaged in sexual activity with a 15 year old she was attracted to (this was the other rape charge). This further muddied the waters in the case--leading to the expert opinion on the semen samples, and a reluctance on the part of the prosecutor to use the girl's coached statements. There's no doubt the 12 year-old was raped, but whether the 15 year old did it, or the 42 year old, or both did it, well, that was apparently what was in some doubt.

You've got nothing to back up any claim of malfeasance.

But note a few things---the investigator you are hanging your hat on said this--

Most damaging to the case, the retired detective says, was the girl's "infatuation" with the teenage boy, which she refused to admit, leading to serious inconsistencies in her statements about the incident.

The victim says it was her mother, who had recently been abandoned by her husband, who pushed for a quick plea deal to avoid the humiliation of having her daughter testify in open court. The mother, who died several years ago, was so eager to end the ordeal she coached her daughter's statements and interrupted interviews with police, Dale Gibson recalls.

The prosecutor recalled that Secretary Clinton did not want to take the case---but she could not refuse a judge's order.....

Taylor, 41, figured a jury would be less hostile to a rape defendant represented by a woman, according to one of his friends. Cummings agreed to the request, scanned the list of available female attorneys (there were only a half dozen in the county at the time) and assigned Rodham, who had virtually no experience in criminal litigation.

"Hillary told me she didn't want to take that case, she made that very clear," recalls prosecutor Gibson, who phoned her with the judge's order.

"I didn't feel comfortable taking on such a client, but Mahlon gently reminded me that I couldn't very well refuse the judge's request," the eventual first lady writes in "Living History."

The victim on Hilary Clinton---

Despite these problems, she bears Hillary Rodham Clinton no ill will and was eager to read "Living History" - at least pages 72 and 73, which contain her case.

Copyright © 2008, Newsday Inc.

http://newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usark245589997feb24,0,2670956.story

[AtomicKitten]

129. I am not convinced.

As the excerpts below indicate, she issued as much paperwork (subpoenas, etc.) as a capital murder case. She went after the 12-year-old viciously, alleging but never providing evidence that the little girl was a little bit nutty, a little bit slutty.

There is a difference between doing your job and doing it in such a vicious, no holds barred way. The piece of resistance was her chuckling over getting off scott-free somebody she knew to be guilty of raping a 12-year-old girl. Clinton knew the implications of this because she whitewashed it in her book.

I'm done with this conversation. I cannot stomach any more excuses coming from the Hillary apologists on this ugly chapter in her career. We will have to agree to disagree.

But there is a little-known episode Clinton doesn't mention in her standard campaign speech in which those two principles collided. In 1975, a 27-year-old Hillary Rodham, acting as a court-appointed attorney, attacked the credibility of a 12-year-old girl in mounting an aggressive defense for an indigent client accused of rape in Arkansas - using her child development background to help the defendant.

--snip

Rodham, legal and child welfare experts say, did nothing unethical by attacking the child's credibility - although they consider her defense of Taylor to be aggressive.... In terms of what's good for the little girl? It would have been hell on the victim. But that wasn't Hillary's problem.

--snip

During her first few months on the case, Rodham fired off no fewer than 19 subpoenas, affidavits and motions - almost as much paper as was typical for a capital murder case that year, according to case files on microfilm.

-- snip

But the record shows that Rodham was also intent on questioning the girl's credibility. That line of defense crystallized in a July 28, 1975, affidavit requesting the girl undergo a psychiatric examination at the university's clinic.

"I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing," wrote Rodham, without referring to the source of that allegation. "I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body."

-- snip

In her 2003 autobiography "Living History," ... Clinton's account leaves out a significant aspect of her defense strategy - attempting to impugn the credibility of the victim, according to a Newsday examination of court and investigative files and interviews with witnesses, law enforcement officials and the victim.

[msanthrope]

152. Of course she issued a lot of paperwork--it was her first criminal case!!!! I'm laughing....

not because the case is not serious, but because any good attorney overworks their first criminal case....

You get so damn paranoid that if you fuckup, your client is going to jail because of your incompetence that you storm the beaches with every motion, every argument you can muster.

Jeebus--my first case was a guy who liked to vandalize stop signs. I had a 20 minute opening argument prepared, I'd filed an omnibus motion that made ADA and the judge laugh, and even my client was telling me "calm down, baby." Yeah....I won....I got every single charge tossed, (including a 'terrorism' charge) but I made a complete ass of myself and burdened the court. The court reporter made me a transcript...since it was my first case. I still read it every few years. Holy shit I was green....

Of course she impugned the credibility of the victim. That's Crim Pro, day one. I've never had an alleged victim whose credibility I didn't try to impugn. Even children. Even rape victims. It's the job of a defense attorney to test the credibility of each and every single witness presented to the court against one's client.

I am not offering you excuses. I am offering you cold, hard, legal fact. Hilary Clinton was appointed by the court to defend an alleged rapist. She was zealous in the defense of her client. And she got a good result for him, in her first case out. And after that, she helped set up a rape crisis hotline.

Everyone hates criminal defense attorneys. Until they need one.

[Historic NY]

91. What did the report entail and what were the results...

as you say from Newsweek all the prosecution stuff is gone. The psychiatric examination results apparently aren't known. If this was such an egregious request why would the judge allow it?
It apparently didn't end up in the file or I"m sure Free Beacon would have published it.

Of course what Free Beacon really does is so-called "conservative investivatve journalism". I'm shocked I'll tell you, just shocked. Of course she was shocked imagine being handed a legal file full of stuff she wouldn't have seen when she was 12.

Free Beacon also tried to hide behind the 1st Amendment by taking and then distributing the audio copy of tapes, but thats another story.

Why didn't they ask the other public defender John Barry Baker about the case?

I did read all this stuff a long time ago.

[hfojvt]

173. "to serve the people"

that's a cookbook, right?

A life devoted to civil service, which just happened to make her rich and famous.

How she must have struggled all those years while living in the Governor's mansion and the white house. What devotion. What a sacrifice.

[Historic NY]

52. So how did the other attorney's do that she worked with do?

Why not blame the prosecutor? She was appointed ot the case and mounted a vigorous defense. Her client was convicted of a lesser charge to which he plead to and sentencing was based on that. Why was he offered a plea???

Seems the victim should be blaming the prosecution or the judge.

I seem to recall this was brought up in 08 too. Look like OPP research is out sucking up stuff .

[AtomicKitten]

56. here

rather than duplicating info, your answer is here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6154947

[joshcryer]

30. Fixed your link:

https://medium.com/@tomwatson/hillary-clintons-greatest-credential-af4513497d51

[PassingFair]

113. This wimmin won't.

She would have obliterated Iran by now if it hadn't been for Obama.

Her primary numbers will plummet as soon as we have the appearance
of a non-corporate sponsored candidate to campaign against her.

[LWolf]

123. I'm a woman.

I've disliked HRC instinctively since my first introduction, way back in the 90s. This one:

You know. The one where she denied standing by her man while she stood by her man. I, frankly, thought she ought to have kicked him to the curb; that would have been supporting the ethical treatment of women. Instead, we got Monica and cigar gate. THAT was fucking helpful to the party and the nation.

Of course, I could have, would have, overcome my personal antipathy for women who excuse cheaters if it weren't for the fact that she's a neo-liberal.

[peacebird]

158. 'Wimmen' my have her back, but this woman gives her the boot.

No way will shillary get my vote. My hope is she chooses not to run, just like mittens did.

[Terra Alta]

6. she'll appoint better Supreme Court justices and federal justices than the Repuke alternative.

Hillary isn't my top choice, or even in my top 5, but if came down to being between her and Cruz, Rand Paul, Jeb, or anyone else on the GOP Clown Car Express, I would have to hold my nose and vote for Hillary.

[benz380]

75. She'll appoint who her corporate masters tell her to.

She has a daughter and grandchild that may need corporate funding in the future.

[Agnosticsherbet]

177. Ginsberg, Breyer, Kagen, and Sotomayor were appointed by Bill Clinton and Obama...

So you point has no basis in reality.

Hillary Clinton would be no more or less beholden to big bussiness than our Bill Clinton and Obama, and their Judges are the finest judges on the court with an excelent record on decisons.

[libdem4life]

9. She's the only one the Republicans fear...and rightly so. She'll also be able to raise enough money

to fund the campaign, a la the Koch Brothers. Democratic Big Money, such as it is, is going to need a candidate that THEY believe can win. And she's not the top of my list either.

[msongs]

10. she is basically obama 2 and she's good bad but she's not evil lol nt

[hrmjustin]

11. She really pisses off republicans.

[msanthrope]

61. And the FDL wing. What's not to like???? nt

[madinmaryland]

12. Two words: President Palin. nt

[Terra Alta]

17. That, alone, is enough reason to run to the polls as fast as I can

and cast my vote for Hillary.

I don't think the US can survive four years of President Palin.

[Autumn]

14. As a 2008 Hillary supporter she has done nothing to earn my vote.

And from what I have seen she seems to have no interest in earning my vote. I sure as fuck don't owe her my vote and I'm not giving it away.

[840high]

27. ...^ that

[woo me with science]

33. [phone] Not only that, but

she has given many good reasons to do everything possible to *prevent* her from becoming the Democratic candidate in 2016.

She is a Third Way menace to democracy. If corporate Democrats succeed in ramming her down our throats as the Dem candidate in 2016, they will have ensured that the corporate agenda continues no matter which candidate wins.

Corporate Republicans and the corporate Third Way are not just another flavor of politician within an essentially functioning representative government. They are building perpetual war, a police and surveillance state, and using our own laws and intelligence agencies to empower corporations over the will of the American people to dismantle democracy itself.



Hillary Clinton's leading role in drafting the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

Hillary Clinton and Trade Deals: That “Giant Sucking Sound”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101761

Hillary Clinton Cheerleads for Biotech and GMOs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112772326

Dissecting Hillary Clinton's Neocon Talking Points - Atlantic Interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209519

NYTimes notices Hillary's natural affinity toward the neocons.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025205645

Hillary Clinton, the unrepentant hawk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024876898

More from Hillary Clinton's State Department: The fascistic TISA (Trade in Services Agreement)
http://m.thenation.com/blog/180572-grassroots-labor-uprising-your-bank

How Hillary Clinton's State Department sold fracking to the world
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251376647

Hillary Clinton Sides with NSA over Snowden Disclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695441

On the NSA, Hillary Clinton Is Either a Fool or a Liar
http://m.thenation.com/article/180564-nsa-hillary-clinton-either-fool-or-liar

Corporate Warfare: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601610#post29

The Bill and Hillary Clinton Money Machine Taps Corporate Cash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025189257

Hillary's Privatization Plan: TISA kept more secret than the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829628

Hillary Clinton criticizes Obama's foreign policy 'failure'; strongly defends Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014867136

Some of Hillary Clinton's statements on Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024379279

Hillary Clinton's GOLDMAN SACHS PROBLEM.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025049343

Ring of Fire: Hillary Clinton - The Perfect Republican Candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209285

How Americans Need Answers From Hillary Clinton On TPP, KXL, Wall St & More
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181611

Hillary Clinton Left Out By Liberal Donor Club
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025809071

Why Wall Street Loves Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106575

Hillary Clinton: Neocon-lite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101684986

Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025824981#post9

[joshcryer]

43. Get to work.

The Koch's have pledged nearly a billion to kill the Democratic candidate.

You need to get a competitor to Clinton out there now, and you need to built a massive ground game.

Of course, you'll excuse yourself because the evil oligarchy won't let you do it.

But the reality is you won't even try.

Fortunately Hillary Clinton is the most qualified candidate in modern history, and should win without much fanfare. So at least the Democrats will stay in power.

[woo me with science]

51. "At least the Democrats will still be in power."

War is Peace!

Sorry, Josh. Lesser of evil talking points for lying, predatory corporatists in Democrat costumes just don't fly anymore....

Hillary Clinton's leading role in drafting the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

Hillary Clinton and Trade Deals: That “Giant Sucking Sound”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101761

Hillary Clinton Cheerleads for Biotech and GMOs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112772326

Dissecting Hillary Clinton's Neocon Talking Points - Atlantic Interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209519

NYTimes notices Hillary's natural affinity toward the neocons.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025205645

Hillary Clinton, the unrepentant hawk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024876898

More from Hillary Clinton's State Department: The fascistic TISA (Trade in Services Agreement)
http://m.thenation.com/blog/180572-grassroots-labor-uprising-your-bank

How Hillary Clinton's State Department sold fracking to the world
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251376647

Hillary Clinton Sides with NSA over Snowden Disclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695441

On the NSA, Hillary Clinton Is Either a Fool or a Liar
http://m.thenation.com/article/180564-nsa-hillary-clinton-either-fool-or-liar

Corporate Warfare: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601610#post29

The Bill and Hillary Clinton Money Machine Taps Corporate Cash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025189257

Hillary's Privatization Plan: TISA kept more secret than the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829628

Hillary Clinton criticizes Obama's foreign policy 'failure'; strongly defends Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014867136

Some of Hillary Clinton's statements on Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024379279

Hillary Clinton's GOLDMAN SACHS PROBLEM.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025049343

Ring of Fire: Hillary Clinton - The Perfect Republican Candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209285

How Americans Need Answers From Hillary Clinton On TPP, KXL, Wall St & More
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181611

Hillary Clinton Left Out By Liberal Donor Club
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025809071

Why Wall Street Loves Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106575

Hillary Clinton: Neocon-lite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101684986

Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025824981#post9

[RiverLover]

53. With Democrats like that ^^^ who needs Republicans? nt

[woo me with science]

98. No kidding.

Just stunning, the brazenness of the lies, and the relentless, pathetic defense machine.

[joshcryer]

95. Yeah, the Bush years were no different!

Gosh we should just return to Republicans owning the White House! No difference whatsoever!

[CTyankee]

135. a republican president would surely appoint the next SC justice and there goes Roe

v. Wade.

I cannot let that happen. I have 2 daughters and 3 granddaughters. I lived thru and fought for the pro-choice movement. We cannot go back. The lives of millions of women will depend on that Supreme Court.

[woo me with science]

139. Beyond absurd to suggest that Third Way politicians will protect women *or* the Constitution.

Last edited Sun Feb 1, 2015, 07:21 PM - Edit history (7)

I have heard the Supreme Court arguments, and I find them to be bullshit. On what planet can we trust that a Third Way predator will protect the Supreme Court *or* women, when the current Third Way, "Democratic" administration has for the past six years been aggressively and proactively dismantling our Bill of Rights and making a mockery of what a "Justice Department" is supposed to be. Take a look at what passes for respect for the Constitution *or* protection of basic human rights from the liars of the Third Way, in the extensive list of links at the bottom of this post. It should make you vomit.

It is revoltingly insulting to women to suggest that we need to swallow a Third Way predator for our own *protection,* when Third Way predators are aggressively and relentlessly attacking the very systems that allow women and other marginalized, disadvantaged, or minority groups to be empowered in the first place. And, yes, the word "predator" is carefully chosen. That threat you just repeated about abortion rights is deliberately orchestrated blackmail by our bipartisan corporate oligarchy to force us to accept nothing less than the destruction of our democracy and fundamental rights...which will include abortion rights eventually, too. Spare us the fantasy that the welfare of women is anything but a blackmailing cudgel for a bipartisan, right-wing, antidemocratic corporate agenda that relentlessly assaults women with its own policies. There is *always* a blade over our heads to force us to accept more corporate predation, and it will *never* end until we take a stand and refuse to capitulate to these vipers. Here is the *real* toll to women and disadvantaged groups under neoliberal predation. Pay attention:

Perhaps the most revolting lie of Third Way politicians is their claim to care about women and minorities
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6127542

The Third Way agenda is not just a slightly less painful option within a troubled but generally functioning two-party democratic system. It is a corrupt, Wall-Street funded, deliberately created infiltration of the Democratic Party. It is the "Democratic" arm of the malignant, antidemocratic, authoritarian corporate takeover of this nation by our now bipartisan oligarchy. It uses blackmail like the type you just repeated to impose predatory corporate rule. They are imposing a surveillance and police state, endless war for profit, and the dismantling of our democracy itself for the profit of oligarchs...paid for with the despair of millions of human beings....*especially* women and minorities.

Promises of protection for women from a corporate Third Way that has for years now reveled in its utter contempt for and vicious assaults on the most vulnerable in our society are not even remotely credible or acceptable anymore. It is unconscionable that women, or any of us, would be lectured to submit to more neoliberal predation based on cynical promises that our welfare matters a whit to them after years of savage lies and betrayals. No, the despicable PR blackmail of corporatists who have shown us ad nauseum that they worship at the altar of profit over human beings...does not fly anymore. We have taught them that, by using the lesser of evils con, they can enact an agenda up to and including fascism itself and still receive our votes. It is well past time to unteach them that.

Chilling Legal Memo From Obama DOJ Justifies Assassination of US Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654954

Obama seeks longer PATRIOT Act extension than Republicans (December 2013)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x380450

When it comes to civil liberties, apparently Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022101960

What is the NSA really for? (Corporate power and suppression of dissent)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024215519

"Clear evidence of collusion between TransCanada and the federal government assisting local police to unlawfully monitor and harass political protestors”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023049508

Corporate Espionage and the Secret War Against Citizen Activism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111643982

NSA Spying Not Very Focused on Terrorism: Power, Money and Crushing Dissent Are Real Motives Ops
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023923016

Keiser Report: CIA, NSA & Economic Espionage (E498) (second half with Greg Palast)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017146372

Spooky Business: Corporate Espionage Against Non-profits
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024106205

NSA data could be most useful for connected types on Wall Street.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022983519

NSA spied on EU's Anti Trust Chief
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024204596

2011: Wall Street firms spy on protesters with police in tax-funded center
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023286585

OUTRAGEOUS: Our Tax Money Funds Gov Surveillance Center In Lower Manhattan--& Wall St Is Part Of It!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2178769

NSA's Massive New Spy Center to Track Your Emails, Internet Activity, and Phone Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101620852

Obama Quietly Signs Abusive Spy Bill He Once Vowed to Eliminate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022104861

Obama repeals Magna Carta, asserting powers our forefathers denied to Kings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101655620

Obama's Memo on Killing Americans Twists 'Imminent Threat' Like Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654919

Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022355307

Obama Admin Seeks Permission TO LIE In Response To FOI Requests - Even To The COURTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2185303

NDAA on trial: Obama Administration fights ban on indefinite detention of Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101748688

Obama administration complicit with private prison industry: President Obama's IncarcerNation
http://www.nationofchange.org/president-obama-s-incarcernation-1335274655

Obama, Democrats Push to Make Bush Spying Laws Permanent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084702

NDAA, signed by Obama, is a direct attack against legitimate protest and dissent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022064803

NSA Whistleblower: All Americans under constant surveillance, all info. stored, no matter the post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002193487; http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021935289

Bipartisan Congress Disgracefully Approves the FISA Warrantless Spying Bill for Five More Years
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022087323

While Public & Media Focused on 2nd Amendment, 5th Amendment Quietly Dismantled
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022390581

How the Obama administration justifies extrajudicial killing of Americans,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022318187

Judge Says Under Law Executive Branch Can Commit Acts That Sure Do Seem Unconstitutional
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022122464

Obama Justice Dept. says wiretap lawsuit should not proceed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014337039

NDAA Lawsuit- Hedges v. Obama, The Last Thin Line of Defense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022357078

Federal authorities step up efforts to license surveillance drones for law enforcement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022383596

Big Banks and FBI worked together vs Occupy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022095056]

FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Domestic Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022061578

FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring (Updated the OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022057064

Public Buses Across Country Quietly Adding Microphones to Record Passenger Conversations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021965291

Street artist behind satirical NYPD 'Drone' posters arrested
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021920967

The Obama DOJ urged the Supreme Court's endorsement of strip searches.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002521527

Obama Administration Fights to Allow Warrantless GPS Tracking
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1074474

Anonymous to FBI: hey, dudes, maybe you could take a break from...investigating activists....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022145621

Half a billion dollars for drones to spy on Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021876414

From Bradley Manning to Aaron Swartz -- The Government's Inhumane Persecution of Brave Truth Tellers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276941

The sight of Army helicopters and the sound of gunfire...on Houston's south side
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276742

Kiriakou and Stuxnet: the danger of the still-escalating Obama whistleblower war
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275570

Can the DEA Hide a Surveillance Camera on Your Property?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022237059

Social Media and the Stasi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021888029

Homeland Security Wants to More Than Double Its Predator Drone Fleet Inside the US, Despite Safety/Privacy Invasions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014312823

CIA Behind Bizarre Censorship Incident At Alleged 9/11 Plotters’ Gitmo Trial
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022280285

“I Am Wearing My Conviction As A Badge Of Honor.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275128

Meet the Contractors Turning America's Police Into a Paramilitary Force
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525281

How Secrecy Corrodes Democracy
http://election.democraticunderground.com/101655009

Obama Quietly Issues Ruling Saying It's Legal For The FBI To Break The Law
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7545687

US Pulls Plug on Iran Cable News (Press TV)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014394770

DHS Watchdog OKs 'Suspicionless' Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022339091

One Of The NSA's Original Whistleblowers Says The Goal Is 'Total Population Control'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025225549

Petition Calls On Obama Stop Intimidation Of Journalists And Whistleblowers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025509395

U.S. Plunges in Global Press Freedom Rankings As Obama Wages War on Whistleblowers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024488178

Obama Promises, Including Whistleblower Protections, Disappear
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014549454

President Obama on Whistleblowers: Then and Now -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x536574

Obama's unprecedented war on whistleblowers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101613051

James Risen: Obama Is 'Greatest Enemy To Press Freedom In A .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025401662

An Assault from Obama's Escalating War on Journalism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025030391

Obama administration to reveal legal justification for killing Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014808253

Obama's Memo on Killing Americans Twists 'Imminent Threat' Like Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654919

NSA Phone Snooping Cannot Be Challenged in Court, Feds Say ..
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/1014542562

Democratic establishment unmasked: prime defenders of NSA bulk collection
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10023337088

NSA can store a billion cell phone calls.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023125853

N.S.A. Examines Social Networks of U.S. Citizens (Decision Made In Secret 2010)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014605329

PBS Frontline Exposes (Softly) Bush's and Obama's Authorization and Coverup of NSA Spying
http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/eric-zuesse/55928/pbs-frontline-exposes-softly-bushs-and-obamas-authorization-and-coverup-of-nsa-illegal-surveillance-of-

Stopping police militarization = confronting corporate politicians (increased under Obama)
...http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025416709

Federal grants drive the militarization of police departments
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025383806

Why Is President Obama Keeping a Journalist in Prison in Yemen
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023300531

James Clapper Calls Journalists "Criminal Accomplices" -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017174990

Rachel Maddow on David Miranda and the White House
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/19/1232435/-Rachel-Maddow-on-David-Miranda-and-the-White-House

Obama Pentagon Employs Bush-Era Propagandists to Screen Embedding Journalists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6380567

Obama the Conservative: Little Hope for Change
http://www.obamatheconservative.com/

Obama: After 911, we tortured some folks.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014860709''

Obama and GOPers Worked Together to Kill Bush Torture Probe
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable-obama-quashed-torture-investigation

"My Head Exploded When Obama Sanctimoniously Said, 'We Tortured Some Folks'"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025339047

Obama Administration: Further Legitimizing Targeted Assassinations by Drones
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/05/02/further-legitimizing-targeted-assassinations-by-drones/

Washington gets explicit: its 'war on terror' is permanent
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/17/endless-war-on-terror-obama

President Obama’s Dragnet (New York Times Editorial)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022960012

Obama Justice Dept. declines to pursue allegations that CIA spied on Senate Intelligence Committee
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014843337

Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11781446

NDAA on trial: Obama Administration DOJ fights ban on indefinite detention of Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101748688

DEA and DOJ Struck Deal with Mexico's Most Notorious Drug Cartel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4410768
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-government-and-the-sinaloa-cartel-2014-1#ixzz2qKWem3w8

Chilling Legal Memo From Obama DOJ Justifies Assassination of US Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654954

DOJ lied to Supreme Court about domestic surveillance
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140514/06214727229/doj-still-trying-to-hide-fact-it-flat-out-lied-to-supreme-court-about-domestic-surveillance.shtml

The Obama administration/DOJ war on whistleblowers and federal unions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586389

DOJ Mysteriously Quits Monsanto Antitrust Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021911441

Holder/Obama administration seeks to legalize lying in response to Freedom of Information requests.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586380

NSA Phone Spying Cannot Be Challenged in Court, Feds Say ..
http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/1014542562

The Obama DOJ urged the Supreme Court's endorsement of strip searches for minor traffic stops.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586369
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002521527

Holder overlooks DEA abuse of spying information, construction of false evidence trails against Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1168570

DOJ goes all the way to the SC to argue for warrantless GPS tracking on cars
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586375

Obama/Holder War on Journalism coming to a head (Risen)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101699216
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/04/obamas-war-journalism-coming-head
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1269998

Obama/Holder more hostile to medical marijuana patients than any president in history
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002650922
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5585204

Feds seek hard prison time for rural Washington pot growers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014801804

Obama DOJ spying on AP reporters, editors re: leaks; other news organizations
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/opinion/spying-on-the-associated-press.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014487549

Obama/Holder DOJ drags out Tesoro investigation (Refinery Explosion) for 4 years; no criminal charges vs. Big Energy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025407823

Obama DOJ drags feet at accountability on Deepwater Horizon
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/04/22/doj-sits-on-its-thumbs/

Obama DOJ Allows Bank of America to Deduct $12 Billion of $17 Billion Settlement
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5427407

Exporting Corruption (Asset Forfeiture), DOJ Looks for Lucrative Overseas Partnerships
http://www.forfeiturereform.com/exporting_corruption_doj_looks_for_lucrative_overseas_partnerships

Obama/Holder Leak Investigations Outrageous and Unprecedented
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/05/obama_s_justice_department_holder_s_leak_investigations_are_outrageous_and.html

The DoJ under Obama/Holder refused to prosecute anyone for torture...but Holder had no problem prosecuting a CIA agent who leaked the name of a torturer
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022846735
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/us/former-cia-officer-pleads-guilty-in-leak-case.html?_r=0

Too Big to Jail: Letting criminal banks and bankers off the hook
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024906501
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017201343
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025558689
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014571503
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025503531

Obama Justice Department Sues Telecom for Challenging National Security Letter
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014170619

Obama DOJ Argues ‘No Constitutional Right Not to Become an Informant’
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10025309330

Operation Choke Point- The DOJ using banks to shut down industries they don't like
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024880788

Obama/Holder DOJ Looks To Overturn Ruling That Would Apply Fair Sentencing Act Retroactively
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023334909

How Eric Holder Facilitated the Most Unjust Presidential Pardon in American History
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023253563

Holder and Obama Dishonesty On Mandatory Minimums, the Drug War and Mass Incarceration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023492539

US & NSA Accused of (Holder defends) Criminal Privacy Violations in Dozens of Nations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023086724

Obama DOJ defends NSA's Associational Tracking Program; No justification even in Patriot Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023455121

US declares socialists Freedom Road a terrorist organization
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/09/raid-s29.html

ACLU sues as DOJ ignores surveillance transparency law
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/aclu-sues-doj-ignores-surveillance-transparency-law

Obama Justice Department has launched twice as many Espionage Act prosecutions against domestic leakers as all previous administrations combined.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276941

The only official punished by Obama DOJ for the illegal NSA program was the one who discussed it. The same is now true of torture.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/27/obama-war-on-whistleblowers-purpose

DOJ Drone Memo revealed: Government can overrule 4th amendment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11784727

Heavy Redactions in DOJ Memo leave doubts on Data Surveillance Program
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101952

Justice Department And NSA Memos Proposing Broader Powers For NSA To Collect Data
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023114180

DOJ's outrageously aggressive prosecution of internet activist, Aaron Swartz
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/al-franken-eric-holder_n_2934627.html

Under Obama DOJ, Bradley Birkenfeld, UBS Whistleblower, Finds Himself in Federal Prison
http://www.cnbc.com//id/41257962

Obama/Holder DOJ sided with Rove in politically motivated prosecution of fr. AL governor, Don Siegelman,
Then, the person who handled the paperwork, got onto the Supreme Court.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Elena-Kagan--Willing-Acco-by-Michael-Collins-100622-971.html

[CTyankee]

141. I am not talking about third way stuff. I am talking about what the republicans have vowed to do:

repeal Roe v. Wade! How much clearer can this get?

I understand and appreciate all of your other points. I feel they have great resonance and truth in them. I want Elizabeth Warren to be our next president. I think the fallback with Hillary is unfortunate. I don't like it. Not one bit. But if the bitter truth is Hillary vs. an anti-choicer, what would you do? Sit it out? Not take a stand for women? Really?

[woo me with science]

169. Perhaps my very long post was a bit like Brueghel's "Landscape with the Fall of Icarus."

It might take a second look, a second reading, so as not to miss the main point.

Take care, CTYankee.

[reddread]

142. not likely

they want the issue, not an insurrection.
if you consider the influence of Bush family figures, which does seem to bear weight,
their affiliation with planned parenthood and birth control science should alleviate some
concern. while raising others.
pro-lifers are at best simply annoying curmudgeons, at worst they are murdering people.
they deserve no consideration when the heathcare rights of women are in question.
This is America and that is one right that wont be walked back by terrorists.
lets not sell out our real needs and interests for a red herring meant as bait for the lesser evil.
lets be real.

[CTyankee]

143. I take these people seriously. Maybe you don't but I do. They have their crazies.

Even Mitt Romney said in 2012 "Yeah, Planned Parenthood. We're gonna get rid of that."

C'mon. They have said this again and again. Why are you not taking their threats seriously?

[reddread]

144. I will never take Mitt Romney seriously

I prefer to keep my eye on the ball.
or pea, take your pick.

[CTyankee]

145. OK, if not Mitt, how about Paul Ryan or Jeb Bush or Scott Walker...etc, ets.

every one of them says the same thing...as you say "take your pick."

[reddread]

156. Pavlov's voters

we are way past claiming SCOTUS appointees are safe in the hands of the
Democratic party.
Well, it has been a favorite chestnut, Im sure they have little else to cajole with.
here's to the lesser evils!

[CTyankee]

159. I refuse to leave it up to you or go down without a fight.

conservatives on the bench have repeatedly sought to limit reproductive rights. By their words but also by their actions when they get in power. And this impacts women much more than men. For women, it could endanger their lives. So yeah, I'll fight every inch of the way and if that means voting for Hillary and if that upsets you, well, I'm not sorry.

[reddread]

160. doesnt upset me at all, why would you think so?

by gosh, if the SCOTUS can do something as horrible as they did back in 2000?
yeah, I guess its easier to worry about the old standbys than it is to stand up
to ultimate criminal betrayal.
because things could always be so much worse.
except as you bottom out. which we have.

[CTyankee]

161. perhaps you are not old enough to know about the bad old days.

I certainly hope that is the explanation. Before Roe women bled to death on bathroom floors after trying to self abort with knitting needles. Or they were victims of botched back alley abortions done under unsafe conditions. And they bled to death. This is an "old standby" in your opinion?

Unbelievable. I never dreamed I'd see this attitude on DU.

[reddread]

162. thats some wicked leap there

not to mention tired rhetoric used ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY to shield RIGHT WING DEMOCRATS
from critical discussion, because their foreign policies are indefensible.
im sorry you cant find relief in the historical perspective that a generations long support
for planned parenthood by the Bush familia will not suddenly change.
that shift never really occurred. their motivations remain.
lets get worked up over flag burning while we are at it.
happens about as often as back alley botched abortions.
i think realistic worries should take precedence.
and people should not be fooled by the same gag repeatedly.
you take a look at ALL that has changed irrevocably since the 60's, major progress.
we have hit a terrible spot where greed is unchallenged and corruption unaccountable.
they dont want to start trouble when all the sheep are happy being sheared.
and I wont vote for a warmonger to protect some fantasy of SCOTUS being better off in the hands of people like
Joe Biden.

[CTyankee]

166. How lovely that Bush elder supported planned parenthood...such a charming

relic of a party that is no more. And no more relevant to the point than Stonehenge.

Jefferson said "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance." Rights can be stripped away from people. Women are not dying from back alley or self inflicted abortions precisely because of Roe. v. Wade. They will be back if a republican appoints an anti-choice SC justice and appoints a younger one since SCOTUS justices have lifetime tenures. Another Scalia and we're done with reproductive freedom in this country.

It is my philosophy that one of the fundamental values at stake is moral choice. Women are moral agents who can decide when and whether to bring a child into the world. That is what Roe affirmed and must be continually affirmed and fought for. Women have struggled throughout history to be considered human beings that are equal to men. Roe says we are. This is what I believe and continue to fight for in my own political life. But it would be strange for you to say that women, myself included, don't see the other issues and consider them important.

You might say I have hostages to the future in my granddaughters. I cannot envision a world where they cannot compete with men (and reproductive freedom is a BIG part of that) and make their own choices in their personal lives. My daughter and I are teaching them this and telling them not to take their rights for granted. And the men in my family are equally supportive.

As for greed and corruption, we have only to look at the Gilded Age in this country to see what happened. We can be actively getting the the pendulum to swing back -- and with Elizabeth Warren and her message that is happening. I support Warren and hope she runs. I will volunteer for her campaign and support her campaign financially. But if she is not the candidate and Hillary is, I will vote for Hillary. I won't be sitting around sulking.

Eternal vigilance.

[reddread]

167. i sure hope you dont think i sit around sulking

just because I dont roll over for memes that have no bearing on real life and death issues.
in fact, serve only to further continued policies of murder and misery by supplanting the reality
of current events with ginned up threats of future assults on Roe v.
no matter how much they like to feed the appetite of anti-choicers, they aint
NEVER gonna give them the big prize. Can you provide one logical reason that they would?
When I reference Bush familia, this extends back to Prescott.
those dopey grandkids and great grandkids wont be dissing the family tradition.
of course, what difference does the Bush family make?
they are incompetent and too stupid to steal into office a third time.
right?

[CTyankee]

168. never gonna to it, huh? well, your mouth to god's ear...

here is a list of the SC and their positions on abortion rights. Now let's play a little game and see how they line up as to whether a Dem or a Repub president nominated them...

http://www.prochoiceohio.org/what-is-choice/abortion/supreme-court-positions.shtml

See how that works?

[reddread]

170. a little game is right

i think id prefer to focus on what has happened, rather than overlooking it because of what might happen.
see how that works?

[CTyankee]

171. "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

see?

[reddread]

174. see ya

may we both enjoy the future.

[woo me with science]

172. +100000 The "lesser of two evils" game of blackmail

Last edited Mon Feb 2, 2015, 06:14 PM - Edit history (1)

remains effective only as long as we ignore the overall corporate, neoliberal pattern of repeatedly holding knives to the throats of vulnerable groups to force steady expansion of the predatory, murderous corporate agenda that ends up savaging those vulnerable groups, anyway.

Once we see the overall pattern of predation and realize that these threats serve only as cudgels to keep the predatory agenda going, we can resist the con game.

What a travesty to pretend that that Third Way actually cares about the rights of women. Get real. History itself screams that their policies lead relentlessly to evisceration of not only economic empowerment, but fundamental democratic and human rights, too. Look at their allies. Look at their policies. They have demonstrated ad nauseum that they are focused on profit, period.

And why? Let's not forget who these vipers really are. What a vicious con game. What a travesty.

[SidDithers]

103. "Get to work"...

Like that's gonna happen. It would interfere with their "kvetching on DU" time.

Sid

[L0oniX]

190. ...because the oligarchy has Democrats too.

[joshcryer]

212. Like Alan Grayson? Top 10 richest.

[hifiguy]

148. Once again, woo, you cut through the horseshit with a chainsaw.

[woo me with science]

149. Horseshit is well-funded now. Recall online political discussion before the corporate PR brigades?

A great deal of our money is now being poured into lying to and manipulating us.

This is the behavior of nations that turn corporate-authoritarian and deeply corrupt. Utter contempt for and deliberate manipulation of the citizens these corrupt politicians pretend to represent. Ubiquitous, lying corporate PR as a substitute for actual representation of citizens.

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

[Maedhros]

176. Policy is important!

We need a President who will not continue the Bush-Obama foreign policy plan. Hillary is not the person to do that.

[woo me with science]

179. Thank you.

Hillary would effectively be the corporate Bush-Obama's FIFTH term.

No, the nation cannot afford that. The nation cannot endure that.

[deutsey]

57. LOL

[JI7]

16. Howard Dean is her biggest supporter

[Agnosticsherbet]

18. Because she will be Hillary Clinton I, not Obama III or Bill Clinton IIi.

[DonCoquixote]

154. well she govern from the left

that is the only question worth asking.

[Agnosticsherbet]

157. Well that depends on what kind of Congress we elect.

Congress sets the agenda as far as legislation, tax policy, and such. Oh, the President can try to guide, but Congress is a coequal branch of government and runs its own show.

Policies about women's rights and minority rights will be left. Her appointment of Supreme Court justices will be from the left. Economic polices will be centrist as it has been for every President since Nixon. Foreign policy, as it has been with hall Presidents since Hoover will be center right to right.

A lot of the stands any President takes will depend on the issues that come up.

Averaging in everything, I suspect she will govern from slightly left of center.

[Logical]

20. I respect that she pulled herself out of poverty after Bill left the Whitehouse! nt

[pa28]

22. Let us use this moment to recall the Bob Dole Candidacy of 1996.

Because she knows more about foreign affairs and domestic policy and politics than you do.

Because she's a mean SOB who will take care of your money.

Because she's earned her turn.

All jokes aside I can't think of any un-equivocating position she maintains in my favor as opposed to Goldman Sachs or Monsanto.

Hillary Clinton is going to go down in a stately bow first style as she did in 2008 because she wears poorly with the public. Just like Bob Dole.

[RiverLover]

49. +1

Good post.

[reddread]

163. Because the Republicans REFUSED to let Colin Powell run.

that was some serious ugly that went down the memory hole.

[woo me with science]

175. Great post.

[aspirant]

25. Because she's an excellant personification

of one of the greatest Country and Western hits ever "Stand by your man."

Now she must produce the sequel " Stand in front of your man," hips separated, and make it a thundering American musical success and not just a temporary fading jingle.

[joshcryer]

28. Watch "Clinton: The American Experience"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/clinton/

The Clintons are following the Roosevelt strategy completely, and utterly.

[Tom Rinaldo]

58. Ooops, meant to reply to OP (see below) n/t

Last edited Fri Jan 30, 2015, 11:17 AM - Edit history (1)

[dissentient]

31. Too many are jumping the gun regarding 2016, we ain't seen nothing yet

1. We don't know Hillary is even running. There may be strong indications she will, but until she announces, nothing is for sure.

2. Even if she does become a candidate, that doesn't mean she will automatically become the nominee of the party. That has already been demonstrated in recent history from the last primary. Many candidates we don't know about yet could run for president, and the field is wide open.

3. Saying "President Palin" is a reason assumes she is going to run for president, and then would win the Republican nomination. I think both of those scenarios coming true are about as likely as that we face an Extra-terrestrial hostile invasion to the Earth in 2016.

4. The most interesting development so far, IMHO, is Romney doing a bizarro world turn about, and starting running a potential campaign on an anti-poverty agenda. I would almost say he or his advisers have been reading DU lately and seeing advice about what we thought the next Democratic candidate should run on, and they decided to steal that thunder!

5. This is actually a good sign that maybe the next presidential election will be about these issues important to liberals/progressives, poverty and the staggering inequality in the system today, and so on, which would be a good thing!

[Zorra]

35. Here's something I really liked ~

Great speech.

[joshcryer]

44. All I see is corporate third way right wing fascism there.

Those who shit on Clinton shit on LGBT, women, and poor people.

[woo me with science]

64. Neoliberals shit on poor people.

Actually, they do more than shit on them. They drive them into grinding poverty and despair, and they murder them. Austerity and looting kill human beings.

You wrote:

"All I see is corporate third way right wing fascism here "

Actually, that's *exactly* what we see. Your attempt at sarcasm is weak, weak sauce. Repeat the outrage that your candidates represent, put a sarcasm smiley next to it, and pretend that it's hyperbole. But it's not. Hillary stands for the malignant corporatism that is, quite literally, dismantling our Bill of Rights, implementing mass surveillance, criminalizing investigative journalism and whistleblowing, looting the masses into poverty, and protecting a criminal, warmongering elite. Her "trade agreements" are antidemocratic and fascistic at their core, because they are *designed* to allow predatory corporations to override our ability to use our own democratic systems to defend ourselves against predatory corporatism.

And perhaps the *most* revolting, dishonest lie of Third Way politicians is their shameless, outrageous claim to be the ones who *especially* care about poor people and women and minorities....even while they are aggressively and relentlessly advancing policies that actually savage disadvantaged communities.

Predatory corporatism harms all of us, but it ravages disadvantaged groups most of all.

Women Facing Globalization: The Impact Of Neo-liberal Globalization On The Economic, Social And Cultural Rights Of Women
http://www.awid.org/Library/Women-Facing-Globalization-The-impact-of-neo-liberal-globalization-on-the-economic-social-and-cultural-rights-of-women

Neoliberalism’s Deleterious Effects on Women
https://genderandsocs13.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/neoliberalisms-deleterious-effects-on-women/

NEOLIBERALISM THRHOUGH THE EYES OF WOMEN
http://focusweb.org/publications/2001/neoliberalism-through-the-eyes-of-women.html

Racial Aspects of Economy are Significant for White House to Address
http://www.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/racial-aspects-of-economy-are-significant-for-white-house-to-address

The Astonishing Collapse of Black and Latino Household Wealth
http://www.alternet.org/economy/black-and-latino-household-wealth-has-collapsed

The Roots of the Widening Racial Wealth Gap: Explaining the Black-White Economic Divide
http://iasp.brandeis.edu/pdfs/Author/shapiro-thomas-m/racialwealthgapbrief.pdf

Wealth Gaps Rise to Record Highs Between Whites, Blacks and Hispanics
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2011/07/SDT-Wealth-Report_7-26-11_FINAL.pdf

The truth is that women and minorities can't afford more corporatism and are already dying because of it. The effects of *continued* corporate warfare on this nation and other nations will be a disaster for all human beings, but *especially* women and minorities.

It's all a viciously cynical rhetorical game, and, frankly, Josh, the propaganda doesn't fly anymore. The Third Way will not protect values of racial *or* gender equality by supporting candidates whose policies are dismantling the very economic and democratic systems that make it possible for women and minorities to be empowered. They certainly won't do it with policies like Obama's and Hillary's that protect bankers, starve schools and communities, grow exploitative industries including private prisons, and militarize the hell out of police in marginalized communities.

If people think things are bad now, just wait until we see the status of women and minorities in this country when we are all working for Third World wages, Hillary's trade agreements have ramped up corporate power and the ability of predatory corporations to override our democratic laws and protections, and dissent in the new corporate America has been crushed.

It's a vicious agenda. It's the corporate agenda:

Poor minorities are worthless to corporations on the street. In prison they can bring in $40,000/yr
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023368969

Poor Land in Jail as Companies Add Huge Fees for Probation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014158005

The Caging of America - Why do we lock up so many people
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002226110

The Obama administration is aggressively growing private prisons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022568681

Obama's 2013 budget: One area of marked growth, the prison industrial complex
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/1002392306

Obama selects the owner of a private prison consulting firm as the new Director of the United States Marshals Service (USMS)
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/12/mars-d03.html

Private prison corporations move up on list on federal contractors, receiving BILLIONS
http://www.nationofchange.org/president-obama-s-incarcernation-1335274655

Federal Private Prison Populations Grew by 784% in 10 Year Span
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4362184

Prison Labor Booms As Unemployment Remains High; Companies Reap Benefits
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/prison-labor_n_2272036.html

Private Prison Corporation's Letters to Shareholders Reveal Industry's Tactics: Profiting from Human Incarceration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022665091

Financial growth of private prison industry...Profiting from caging humans.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/BshteP8i282pcaeH8pdUsA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTUyMA--/

We heard about private prisons...but do you know of the private probation industry?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025380204

NYT: Probation Fees Rise, Firms Profit and the Poor Go to Jail
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002893040

No Safe Place: How Cities Are Making It Illegal to be Homeless
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101699724

Thrown in jail for being poor: the booming for-profit probation industry
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024603515

The exploitation of Ferguson I: In 2013 the town issued over 24,000 arrest warrants..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025404667

The exploitation of Ferguson II: The Seamy Underbelly Of Ferguson Starts To Appear
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025416747

The exploitation of Ferguson III: Ferguson Feeds Off the Poor: Three Warrants a Year Per Household
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025428157

That should serve as a correction. You may now return to your PR duties.

[joshcryer]

94. LGBT rights = right wing fascism?

[pnwmom]

37. Her overall voting record in the Senate was solidly progressive.

Not that you would ever have noticed.

http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

Overall record:

"Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal"

VoteMatch

Social Questions: Liberals and libertarians agree in choosing the less-government answers, while conservatives and populists agree in choosing the more-restrictive answers.

Economic Questions: Conservatives and libertarians agree in choosing the less-government answers, while liberals and populists agree in choosing the more-restrictive answers.


Candidate's Score

The candidate scored the following on the VoteMatch questions:


Social Score 83%
Economic Score 10%

Where the Candidate Fits In

Where the candidate's Social score meets the Economic score on the grid below is the candidate's political philosophy. Based on the above score, the candidate is a Hard-Core Liberal.

Social Score
This measures how much the candidate believes government should intervene in people's personal lives or on social issues. These issues include health, morality, love, recreation, prayer and other activities that are not measured in dollars.

A high score (above 60%) means the candidate believes in tolerance for different people and lifestyles.
A low score (below 40%) means the candidate believes that standards of morality & safety should be enforced by government.

Economic Score

This measures how much the candidate believes government should intervene in people's economic lives. Economic issues include retirement funding, budget allocations, and taxes.

A high score (above 60%) means the candidate believes in personal responsibility for financial matters, and that free-market competition is better for people than central planning by the government.
A low score (below 40%) means the candidate believes that a good society is best achieved by the government redistributing wealth. The candidate believes that government's purpose is to decide which programs are good for society, and how much should be spent on each program.
This measures how much the candidate believes government should intervene in people's economic lives. Economic issues include retirement funding, budget allocations, and taxes.

[DrDan]

54. not a perfect candidate . . . but who is?

as you say, solidly progressive.

[Spider Jerusalem]

38. The specific thing she can do to earn my vote: win the Democratic nomination.

I've never voted Republican, not since I cast my first vote for Bill Clinton in 1996 at age 19. I'm not planning to start, anytime soon. While the Democratic Party may not be my ideal party or espouse all of the policies I'd like to see, it's still the party that has a better record on more things that I think matter, and the only one with a reasonable chance of winning. That means I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee. Who may or may not be Hillary; we'll see after the primaries.

[sabrina 1]

40. Because she pissed off Nelson Mandlela and Bishop Tutu when she boasted, regarding the

war crime that was Gadaffi's grotesque slaughter: 'We came, we saw, he died'. Who doesn't want someone who is that open about participating in a horrible murder, to represent them?

And who cares what Mandela or TuTu have to say about it?

We are EXCEPTIONAL and Hillary has proven her chops with the best of the Bush 'tough guys'.

[LWolf]

47. okay

[hobbit709]

48. to earn my vote: Absolutely nothing.

I will do whatever I can to keep her from getting the nomination. If she gets it then she will get my vote through default, not by earning it.

[KG]

55. She's not Bill!

[randome]

66. Has any politician EVER done anything to earn your vote? If so, what and who?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[HughBeaumont]

67. Not having a nightmare 7-2 Opus Dei SCOTUS is pretty much the only reason I can think of.

I hate the fact that economic regressiveness is going to continue (unless we take the Senate back and, barring a miracle, the House). Free Traitorism is a moldy DLC crapcake.

[Nye Bevan]

69. Anyone who Elizabeth Warren says is "terrific" is OK in my book.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/204014-warren-i-think-hillary-clinton-is-terrific

[RiverLover]

70. She sold fracking to the world & helped lg corporation$ while acting as "SOS". I just love that. nt

[MineralMan]

76. You start first, Manny.

Lets hear yours.

[randome]

83. .

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[1StrongBlackMan]

86. This OP is doing exactly what he intended ...

established yet another platform form for DUers to bash a (potential) Democratic candidate and high five each other for doing so.

[MineralMan]

87. Well, you'd think that Hillary Clinton's constant

support for women's rights and a higher minimum wage would be mentioned, even by the OP. I guess not. Her support for LGBT equality either, I guess. He won't mention her high rating among liberal Senators for supporting progressive legislation during her tenure there, either.

I was hoping to hear some of those. But, I guess not. Oh well...

[pnwmom]

96. In case you missed this, MineralMan.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6155063

[MineralMan]

99. Thanks. I saw that. I was referring only to

this thread, though, particularly the opening post.

[Autumn]

108. Manny posted his. I guess you didn't see the "nothing" in the OP

I saw the nothing. Nothing there. Did you list yours?

[MineralMan]

110. See my #87 for a partial list.

It's just above your post a few posts. There are more reasons, but the primary one is that she is a Democrat. In presidential elections, my vote goes to the Democrat. Every last freaking time. I have nothing to do with selecting presidential candidates. Neither do you. My electoral activism goes to legislative candidates, both state and federal. I do have something I can do about those.

[Autumn]

112. I like Hillary for those reasons too. She has still said or done nothing to earn my vote

in a presidential run. Nothing. Being a democrat just doesn't automatically earn my vote. I caucused for her in her last run but not interested in another. Not anymore.

[MineralMan]

114. You will decide as you decide.

Either the Democrat or the Republican will win. I know what my preference is. But I'll be working on elected the most progressive possible legislators in my districts. I know them. I help them. I help to choose those candidates. I have almost nothing to do with who runs for President, but I vote in every election, so I vote for the Democrat for President. The alternative is unthinkable for me.

Now, if I were a potential delegate for the Democratic National Convention, I'd be more interested in presidential primary candidates, but I'm not. There's not a chance for me to become a national delegate. Our state convention is the most I can do, and the presidential candidate is already a done deal by that time.

I don't deal with presidential elections, except as a voter, and I will vote for the Democratic candidate. Every time. Either that candidate wins or a Republican does. Every time. My choice is simple.

My focus is on legislative candidates.

You will do whatever you do.

[Autumn]

115. As we all will do whatever we will do.

[Tom Rinaldo]

77. Against who? Voting is about choices...

She has done more than enough things throughout her career to qualify as a legitimate Democrat in my and most people's eyes, though albeit not all that progressive of one on whole. She's probably ever so mildly center left on today's political spectrum which has of course skewed heavily to the right over the last couple of decades. An ideal candidate? Far from it.

But she strongly supports women rights and freedom to choose, she believes humans contribute to global warming, she is not inclined to cut food benefits for the poor, etc.

So has she earned my vote against who? She has already earned my vote against anyone who the Republican Party will nominate for President in 2016. I want Bernie Sanders to run against Hillary in the Democratic primaries, and I'll vote for him if he does.

[workinclasszero]

78. She will beat the shit out of Jebby, Rmoney, Paul, or any other loon

in the republican clown car.

If thats the only thing she does to earn my vote I will most definitely pull the lever for Hillary to keep those insane bastards from controlling the house, senate and the white house...God forbid!

[think]

80. She stopped Wallstreet corruption, got an increase in minimum wage, fought unjust trade agreements

used diplomacy instead of wars to handle international affairs, stopped abuses of power by the NSA, protected the American people's civil rights, and got universal healthcare for America so we can be on par with the rest of the modern world!

Then I woke up......

[woo me with science]

88. K&R

[whatchamacallit]

92. Considering "our choice" will ultimately come down to two hand-picked tools

you could say she's earned it by being unscrupulous enough to make the corporate cut.

[woo me with science]

97. kick

[SidDithers]

102. So don't vote for her, Manny...

And please, if she does become the Democratic nominee, tell us clearly and often how you're not going to vote for her.

Sid

[QC]

105. Are you going to vote for her, Sid? n/t

[Andy823]

106. Will you if she is the nominee?

I am not a Hillary supporter, and I won't be voting for her in the primary. However you can bet you ass I will be voting for her is she is the nominee. No way in hell would I take a chance on getting a republican in office who will be able to pick judges for the Supreme Court, no way will I take a chance that health are will go back to where it was, no way in hell.

[QC]

109. Yes. I've been voting straight Democratic tickets for thirty years.

I'm still interested in knowing if Sid is going to vote for her. Any idea?

[Andy823]

111. No idea

Sid will have to answer that one. I was just wondering if you would voter for her is she becomes the nominee. Glad you will,

[Bobbie Jo]

117. No, you're not particularly interested

But I can tell you one thing for damn sure, you won't find Sid trying to depress the vote around here come election season.

[zappaman]

120. Don't think Sid can, but he will be here urging people to vote for the Democratic nominee...

even if it's Clinton.

Will you?

[QC]

121. Sure. Like I said, I was voting straight Democratic tickets

many years before some folks here tuned into Oprah one day with a fresh box of bonbons in hand and saw a dreamy senator sitting on her couch.

If I could vote for Dukakis, I can certainly vote for Clinton.

[Autumn]

124. I was reading Canada's 2013 data. They are losing young voters and get a C in voter turnout,

much like out American young voters are not interested in our elections . I think that the young voters need a reason to vote and I do see that here in the USA both parties ignore the future and problems of the youth. Still they are better than our numbers. I hope that our Canadians here will be vigilant and encourage their young voters in Canada to vote for their nominees by running politicians that are interested in the needs of the people not just corporations and banks.

If they reach the point to where their choice is a party that supports the wealthy and corporations over the people who are crushed under a devastating income equality or another party who also supports the wealthy and corporations over the people who are crushed under a devastating income equality I will certainly stand by them and encourage them to vote their conscience.


http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/society/voter-turnout.aspx

[Autumn]

116. No Sid won't vote for her, he can't. He just wants Manny gone from DU.

[QC]

118. Did you ever see what Skinner had to say about the troll hunters?

It's quite wise and worth reposting now and then: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1259455

[Autumn]

119. Yes I saw that and it's a great bit of wisdom from Skinner, but sadly ignored.

[QC]

122. Yes, very sadly.

Surely someone concerned about this place would pay attention to such sage advice.

[Autumn]

125. Do you see it as concern? I really don't see it that way.

[QC]

126. Well, it could be concern about something, I guess.

Clearly, he's very concerned about something or other. Very concerned indeed.

[L0oniX]

193. "They can be worse than the zombies, trolls, and witches." Luv that response (hint) to Sid.

[Bobbie Jo]

130. This subthread

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Autumn]

131. Much like this post. No?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026154348#post117

Or is that only for other people? Yeah I think it must be

[Bobbie Jo]

132. Not really

I posted to him directly.

So no, not at all.

[Autumn]

133. Oh exactly so.

So yes. Since the object of a thread is to find a post you want to respond to and then respond to it like I responded to QC and QC in turn responded to me. Just like the other poster (gasp) and I did in the sub thread which you objected to as gossip. It's called conversing not just posting nasty replies. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6164133

Bye Bye have a nice day.

[Bobbie Jo]

134. Good Lord

What did that even mean?

Oh, and

[Autumn]

136. I have noticed that some here would rather respond than read

[Bobbie Jo]

137. Ok

And some would rather twist themselves into an incoherent pretzel than be wrong.

[Autumn]

138. I don't miss Pretzel Warrior at all.

[Andy823]

165. Exactly. +1000 nt.

[whatchamacallit]

128. Bam!

[L0oniX]

191. Nailed it! ^^^this^^^

[Alkene]

104. "Oh, there is something about her…this great lady.

Caring, hard working once a First lady
She fights for country 'n my family.
Now it’s time for us to Stand Up with Hillary.
Hillary. Stand up with Hillary."

Just in case,

[Joe Turner]

127. She does have a great resume

But so did GHWB and look how that turned out. Speaking of which, I can hardly think of a single major policy difference between these two. With Hillary you get the Status Quo. If you like what's been happening to this country since Reagan then she has certainly earned your vote.

[reddread]

140. IWR, Libya and all other neocon measures

oh wait. you mean a vote FOR Hillary?

[hifiguy]

146. To paraphrase Ike on Nixon's accomplishments as VP

Give me a year to try and think of something.

[dsc]

151. Many have expressed her work on women's rights which I respect greatly

I would add to that her being the first Secretary of State who elevated gay rights to a foreign policy concern and her leading on providing benefits to the partners of gay employees. In all too many countries gays aren't even second class citizens.

[AngryAmish]

155. She has left a massive, greasy dump on my neighbors porch.

That solved all my problems.

[Agnosticsherbet]

178. She is not Jim Webb. Since Web is a Confederate apologist on recrods as saying White

people are misunderstoond on matters of racism. She is looking pretty good, being the only other Democrat activly considering a run for the White House.


http://www.npr.org/2015/01/30/382588001/former-sen-jim-webb-d-va-explores-presidential-bid

We are tasked to choose beetween the candidats that step forward

[woo me with science]

180. Except that she's not really a Democrat. She's a Wall Street corporatist.

She is the embodiment of Wall Street-backed, corporate infiltration of the party.

She would ensure either a Republican victory or a Third Way victory: either way, Term Five of the Bush-Obama corporate/MIC agenda that is driving millions into poverty and dismantling democracy itself.

She is an author of the antidemocratic TPP, a cozy war profiteering buddy of Kissinger, and the Kevin Bacon of Wall Street, with close connections to virtually every corporate predator in the .1 percent.

Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2013/10/30/one-degree-of-hillary-how-clinton-is-connected-to-the-worlds-most-powerful/ (Load the link twice if necessary.)

This nation cannot endure four more years of predatory corporatism and warmongering.

[Agnosticsherbet]

181. She is a registered Democrat who was elected to the Senate as a Democrat by Democrats.

That is what makes her a Democrat.

There is absolutely no ideological litmus test to be a Democrat. The only requirement is to register as a Democrat.

So you are absolutely wrong about her not being a Democrat.

It is perfectly OK to disagree with her economic ideas. It just means you disagree with her., it doesn't remove her from the party.

For instance, Bernie Sanders, is not a Democrat and has never been one. Reagan used to be a Democrat and changed parties to Republican.

What makes a Democrat is being a registered member of the Democratic Party.

[woo me with science]

182. Well, that's certainly what the corporate infiltraton of the party hopes to accomplish:

Last edited Tue Feb 3, 2015, 12:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Corporatists hell-bent on profiting from the hijacking of democratic governments have worked very hard to try to teach people to associate party loyalty with irrelevancies like team colors and the "D" after the name, while detaching it from principles and values and goals for the lives of human beings. They want to remake politics as a vapid, profitable team sport, divorced from the expectations of representative government....because corporate government is the antithesis of representative government.

But that pesky human recalcitrance, that stubbornness in holding on to the belief that parties should actually stand for their interests, is exactly why corporate Democrats routinely rely on LIES to get elected. They shamelessly appeal to voters based on the values and principles that once drew people to embrace the Democratic Party, even though they are lying to our faces while doing it. They pretend shamelessly to embrace the people's values, needs, and goals, while in the back room fellating corporations that will pay them to eviscerate those very same human beings.

It is a slick corporate tactic, a bait and switch strategy entirely familiar in, say, corporate sales of packaged dinners or cake mix. The hucksters substitute quality ingredients with crap and fillers, but package it with that the same, familiar blue logo that *used* to mean something. You lie and pretend to stand for things traditional Democrats used to stand for: like unions, or public education, or protecting ordinary people from criminal banks, or freedom of the press. You do things like proclaiming that you intend to oppose fast-track on principle, even though you fully intend to ram it down the people's throats once you are elected.

And the fact that you aren't even ashamed to lecture me here that *ALL* it takes to be a Democrat is to be a registered member of the Democratic Party (Think about that...Jeb or even George Bush could sign up and run tomorrow with your blessing!) shows how far and deep this ugly, deliberate, and systematic attempt to pervert our politics from meaningful exercise in civic values and representation to impotent but obscenely profitable team sport has really progressed.

It's sick. And it happens because we don't really have democracy anymore in this country. We have a stealth corporate oligarchy, run by slick corporate advertisers and pitchmen focused on corporate profit rather than parties rooted in fundamental values and visions for this nation, and the intent to represent human beings in achieving them. What's the result? Spiraling inequality even under "Democratic" rule. Predatory war, economic, and police state policies that don't change no matter which party is in power. And millions of human beings driven into poverty and despair.

And the creation of a slick, well-funded, morally bankrupt advertising and propaganda machine defending it all.

[Agnosticsherbet]

184. I checked. there is no Corporate Infiltration Party registered in the United States.

You might want to check your facts, and if I am wrong, post some kind of link to them. Sounds like a damned silly idea for a party but I would like to read about them.

I did not lecture you on what it takes to be a Democrat. I stated facts. The argument that a registered Democrat is not a Democrat is ideological purity bullshit. No body has to like a fact for it to be a fact.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with another Democrat about policy or the best way to run a government or the role of corporations or unions or on who makes the best Tequila. Even if I disagree with every policy they advocate, a registered Democrat is a registered Democrat.

The Democratic party today is what it is, today. Before the Civil War, it was the Party of Slavery, and it remained the party entrenched in White Supremacy right to the beginning of the 20th century. Only under Truman did it become the all inclusive party. Beginning with Nixon, Southern Democrats began voting for Republicans, Northern Republicans began the switch to Democrats. This change was pretty much complete for Democrats by 2000. (Republicans are still purging their ranks of moderates, some of whom will join the Democratic Party.) All those third way Democrats people complain about used to be Rockefeller Republicans, Fiscally Conservative/Socially Liberal. Without them, Johnson's Great Society Programs would never have happened. The 1964 Civil Rights act passed because Rockefeller Republicans voted for it and racist Southern Democrats did not. At the time, parties were much less ideologically pure. I blame that particular current illness of the body politic on Gingrich.

I don't buy the corporate conspiracy thing. I look terrible in tin foil. I will examine the polices of the candidates and choose the available candidate who is the best fit.

I vote, and I respect people who vote. My goal is to elect more and better Democrats. If Hillary Clinton is nominated, I think she will make a fine President. I will vote for whichever Democrat wins the nomination, because in the modern age no Republican will serve my interests or the people's interests. The way our system is set up, third party candidates are spoilers. There are some fine third party representatives, Bernie Sanders, but unless he joins the Democratic Party I will not give him a second's consideration.

I am endlessly annoyed by the whole pro/anti-Clinton conflict here. That argument is about personalities not about policy or anything of substance. I much prefer discussion policy, so I look forward to the official beginning of the campaign where candidates begin to discuss policy.

[reddread]

185. what are you talking about?

Last edited Tue Feb 3, 2015, 08:28 AM - Edit history (1)

"I am endlessly annoyed by the whole pro/anti-Clinton conflict here. That argument is about personalities not about policy or anything of substance. I much prefer discussion policy, so I look forward to the official beginning of the campaign where candidates begin to discuss policy."

personalities?
there is not much you can say about something so completely ludicrous.
IT IS ABOUT POLICY AND ONLY THAT.


"I don't buy the whole corporate conspiracy thing."

yeah. There is no ALEC. There is no Citizens United. There is no TPP.
I feel so much better now.
thank you.
I am sorry I cant buy into you. wouldnt yours be the better world?

[woo me with science]

186. Stunning, isn't it.

Corporate money pouring into and corrupting the direction of our government is a conspiracy theory.

This is the denial of reality we are fed now, 24/7.

War is Peace.

[reddread]

188. dont torture me bro

would be nice to know which corporations directly profited from the torture program.

[Agnosticsherbet]

198. How US firms profited from torture flights (2011 Guardian Article)

How US firms profited from torture flights
The scale of the CIA's rendition programme has been laid bare in court documents that illustrate in minute detail how the US contracted out the secret transportation of suspects to a network of private American companies.

The manner in which American firms flew terrorism suspects to locations around the world, where they were often tortured, has emerged after one of the companies sued another in a dispute over fees. As the 10th anniversary of 9/11 approaches, the mass of invoices, receipts, contracts and email correspondence – submitted as evidence to a court in upstate New York – provides a unique glimpse into a world in which the "war on terror" became just another charter opportunity for American businesses.

As a result of the case, the identities of some of the corporations involved in the rendition programme have been disclosed for the first time, along with the names of some of the executives who knew the purpose of the flights.

I hope that was helpful.

[Agnosticsherbet]

197. The First amendment covers the right to petition the government.

Corporate money comes organizations of individuals from interests groups that petition the government with their ideas.

Because they were more successful at getting conservative voters to the polls, they have influence over the elected representatives.

I did not know the First Amendment protections were part of a conspiracy.

Now, I think we can agree that there is way too much influence from Corporate money and that Corporations should not have free speech.

Sadly, most of the Justices that made that stupid decision were appointed by a Republican President.

Elections have consequences.

[Agnosticsherbet]

189. No, It is about personality.

And the existence of interests group with power in Congress does not a conspiracy make. They have existed from the beginning.

This is not new.

I see no difference between the FEMA CAMP Black Helicopter conspiracy on the right and the Corporate Oligarch conspiracy on the left except the ideology followed by those who believe in them.

There are real world problems that can be solved if people look at the available candidates and vote for the candidate that fits closest to what the voter thinks will help.

We will never, never get an ideal candidate, because no two people have the same point of view.

And the Conversations in these threads are not about policy. The conversation is an attempt to indoctrinate people in the belief in a Vast Corporate Conspiracy.

You want policy, lets talk Supreme Court Justices. Do we elect a Democrat or a republican to appoint Supreme Court Justices. Compare and contrast justices appointed by president's Clinton and Obama vs Reagan/ Bush I/Bush II appointments.

If you say Hillary Clinton will appoint judges approved by Corporate Oligarchs than you are talking conspiracy theory not history or policy.

How will Jim Webb deal with equal rights after listening to his interview on NPR and checking out his history of Confederate apology.

That is policy. That is talking about real world stuff.

[woo me with science]

194. That was incoherent.

Last edited Tue Feb 3, 2015, 02:34 PM - Edit history (3)

A textbook repetition of the MO of word salad, diversion and smear of the corporate messaging machine.

From the initial bizarre attempt to pretend that others were the ones who cried "conspiracy!" here, to the ugly and predictable smearing as conspiracy nuts those who point out the clear corrupting influence of corporate money flooding our government, to the random canned attempts at stale "lesser of two evils" diversion at the end...

We are now at the point in this familiar dance where the goal appears to be to bury The Main Idea in belligerent clutter. Goodbye, Agnosticsherbet.

Ignore the Third Way propaganda machine with extreme prejudice.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5767160

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

Their purpose is to thoroughly hijack, pollute and therefore eliminate public spaces where real discussion and organization can occur. Occupy is disbanded with clubs and pepper spray. Dissent and organization online are disrupted with surveillance and propaganda.

It is no accident that propaganda brigades post new threads on discussion boards far out of proportion to their presence in the community, and that they nearly *always* demand the last word in any interchange.

The goal is to disrupt the important public space for liberal thought, discussion, and organization that these boards offer, and to keep the participants busy instead batting off the corporate lies and talking points.

[Agnosticsherbet]

195. You should read the post I answered. Also, third-way is nothing more than neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism and political ideology is not gone. It has its adherents, both as voters and as elected officials. To counter them, they must be discussed.

I must assume that you goodbye means you have placed me on ignore. That is sad. It means that your mind is absolutely closed and you are unwilling to
defend your positions.

[Autumn]

192. Zell Miller was a Democrat. I vaguely remember something about a duel to defend the honor of Bush

I wonder if he were still alive would we be expected to support and vote for him?

[Agnosticsherbet]

196. Yes, Zell Miller was a Democrat, as were generations of Southern White Supremacists.

Southern White Supremacist Democrats were once powerful enough that they almost stopped the equal rights act of 1964. It was saved by Republicans.

Beginning with Nixon, they began to leave the party. By Reagan, they were the core of the "Reagan Democrats." By the time Zell Miller left office, they were pretty much all Republicans. That is how a staunchly Democratic South became a staunchly Republican South.

Around the same time, most of the New England states were core Republican states. Due to changes in the Republican and Democratic Parties, most of New England is now a Democratic stronghold.

Parties do change over time.

[Autumn]

200. The Democratic party sure has changed. They seem to be moderate republicans and republicans are

bat shit crazy. Not much of a choice there.

[Agnosticsherbet]

202. As the Republican Party drifted right, so did the Democratic Party.

They parties appear to maintain a certain space between them the defines the political center in our system.

I agree that there are no choices from the Republican Party.

That is why I think that it is critical which party is in power. They are different even if the differences are not on the scale that a lot of people on the left would like.

[Autumn]

203. That's all well and good. It just doesn't work anymore.

[Agnosticsherbet]

207. Actually it does work.

Under Obama some small improvements were achieved. Sadly Democratic voters did not show up in sufficient numbers in 2010 and 2014, so Republicans gained control of the House and now the Senate.

At this time in History, divided government guarantees nothing will get done to improve the lives of people.

If we want change, we will vote in 2016 to elect a Democratic President, House, and Senate.

A Democratic House will mean that Democrats set the agenda for legislation. Some of that legislation is going to be stuff we on the left don't like. They will also pass legislation that we do want, better pay, real improvements to the ACA, improvement to infrastructure. A Democratic Senate will mean better supreme court justices will be approved if we have a Democratic President who will appoint them. A Republican President will not appoint a Kagen, Sotomayor, Breyer, or Ginsburg.

I am not putting a name on any of those Candidates, because control of two branches of government is necessary to create any good change.

We either work together to do that, or we allow Republicans to enact the changes they think will make the country better.

[Autumn]

208. "small improvements" for the people. While corporations, banks and the wealthy did even better.

Good luck.

[Agnosticsherbet]

209. Small improvements for peope is better than no imporovents for people.

I'll take small improvements any day. And then I work on another small improvement.

[Autumn]

210. Somehow I think that slow slide off the cliff is just as bad as a quick fall.

I'm off to town have a good day.

[Agnosticsherbet]

211. I use a parachute with a cliff.

And you have a good day.

[woo me with science]

199. Well, if he has a Blue suit, why not?!

After all, as we have been very carefully reminded by Agnosticsherbet,

There is absolutely no ideological litmus test to be a Democrat. The only requirement is to register as a Democrat.

So...Go, TPP! In fact, GO, entire Bush/Obama/Clinton/Wall Street agenda of corporatism, endless war for profit, and surveillance/police state!

But not to worry! As I was just reassured on another thread,

[font size=3]"At least a "Democrat" will still be in power!" [/font size]

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing our FCC to corporate tools? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons? Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq? Both parties support it.
New war in Syria? Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza? Both parties support it.
Obama's request for largest Pentagon budget in history? Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Opening the Atlantic Coast for drilling? Both parties support it.

Hillary Clinton's leading role in drafting the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

Hillary Clinton and Trade Deals: That “Giant Sucking Sound”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101761

Hillary Clinton Cheerleads for Biotech and GMOs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112772326

Dissecting Hillary Clinton's Neocon Talking Points - Atlantic Interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209519

NYTimes notices Hillary's natural affinity toward the neocons.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025205645

Hillary Clinton, the unrepentant hawk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024876898

More from Hillary Clinton's State Department: The fascistic TISA (Trade in Services Agreement)
http://m.thenation.com/blog/180572-grassroots-labor-uprising-your-bank

How Hillary Clinton's State Department sold fracking to the world
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251376647

Hillary Clinton Sides with NSA over Snowden Disclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695441

On the NSA, Hillary Clinton Is Either a Fool or a Liar
http://m.thenation.com/article/180564-nsa-hillary-clinton-either-fool-or-liar

Corporate Warfare: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601610#post29

The Bill and Hillary Clinton Money Machine Taps Corporate Cash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025189257

Hillary's Privatization Plan: TISA kept more secret than the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829628

Hillary Clinton criticizes Obama's foreign policy 'failure'; strongly defends Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014867136

Some of Hillary Clinton's statements on Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024379279

Hillary Clinton's GOLDMAN SACHS PROBLEM.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025049343

Ring of Fire: Hillary Clinton - The Perfect Republican Candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209285

How Americans Need Answers From Hillary Clinton On TPP, KXL, Wall St & More
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181611

Hillary Clinton Left Out By Liberal Donor Club
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025809071

Why Wall Street Loves Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106575

Hillary Clinton: Neocon-lite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101684986

Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025824981#post9

You've gotta hand it to Wall Street. They are very slick and methodical about what they do.

When the DLC connections to the Koch Bros. became well known, they just rebranded the infiltration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4165556

When you hear "Third Way", think INVESTMENT BANKERS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024127432

GOP Donors and K Street Fuel Third Way’s Advice for the Democratic Party
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101680116

The Rightwing Koch Brothers fund the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

Same companies behind the GOP are behind the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1481121

[Autumn]

201. It's that magic D doncha know.

I never did tolerate and reward bad behavior from my children and I just can't do it with my Democratic party any more. I don't know why I ever did, that was stupid on my behalf.

[woo me with science]

205. Agree. They must not be enabled a step further.

The difference between misbehaving children and lying, infiltrating Wall Street corporatists wearing Democrat costumes is that your children won't participate in the corporate consignment of millions of human beings to poverty, war, and despair....and the dismantling of the remaining democratic systems that could protect them.

Hillary Clinton is not a Democrat. Her corporate agenda is a menace to democracy.

[Autumn]

206. We as a people can not survive another six years of this and I will be damned if I vote for a person

who will carry on these policies. I cannot do that and I won't.

[Agnosticsherbet]

204. You confuse political ideology with party.

Political ideology is that set of beliefs we all carry about what is right in politics. It is like a religion, except it is the ideas we hold sacred rather than some immortal being.

All those gentleman in that board of Trustees have the same political ideology. They have joined together to influence the government. That does not make it a conspiracy.

It does not stop any other group form doing the same thing.

Sadly, liberal groups have not attempted with the same zeal and discipline to influence the government with anything like their success.

[reddread]

213. and away you goooooooooooooooooooooooo

that must be some serious shovel.
do you have to outsource for manure?

[Agnosticsherbet]

214. An attack must means I struck a never an you have noting to work with.

[woo me with science]

183. kick

[CBGLuthier]

187. OK, here goes

This space intentionally left blank

[woo me with science]

215. kick