Egypt 'necrophilia law'? Hooey, utter hooey.

[Starry Messenger]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/0426/Egypt-necrophilia-law-Hooey-utter-hooey

Today, Egypt's state-owned Al Ahram newspaper published an opinion piece by Amr Abdul Samea, a past stalwart supporter of the deposed Hosni Mubarak, that contained a bombshell: Egypt's parliament is considering passing a law that would allow husbands to have sex with their wives after death.

It was soon mentioned in an English language version of Al-Arabiya and immediately started zipping around social-networking sites. By this afternoon it had set news sites and the rest of the Internet on fire. It has every thing: The yuck factor, "those creepy Muslims" factor, the lulz factor for those with a sick sense of humor. The non-fact-checked Daily Mail picked it up and reported it as fact. Then Andrew Sullivan, who has a highly influential blog but is frequently lax about fact-checking, gave it a boost with an uncritical take. The Huffington Post went there, too.

There's of course one problem: The chances of any such piece of legislation being considered by the Egyptian parliament for a vote is zero. And the chance of it ever passing is less than that. In fact, color me highly skeptical that anyone is even trying to advance a piece of legislation like this through Egypt's parliament. I'm willing to be proven wrong. It's possible that there's one or two lawmakers completely out of step with the rest of parliament. Maybe.

<snip>

Stories like this are already a reminder of the downside of the Internet. It makes fact-checking and monitoring easier. But the proliferation of aggregation sites, newsy blog sites, and the general erosion of editorial standards (and on-the-ground reporters to do the heavy lifting) also spreads silliness faster than it ever could before.

[virgogal]

1. So who do we believe?

[Starry Messenger]

4. I would say, probably not the Daily Mail.

Just as a rule of thumb.

[JackRiddler]

49. In this case, clearly, "what we want to believe"

This is extremely obvious bullshit. There are some cases where you should just know. Only those who want to think this will believe this. Or sensation-seeking fools, which I guess is synonymous with Huffington and Sullivan. Or, unfortunately, many readers who are led astray by trusting in a given source without subjecting it to tests of logic and evidence when they hear something so outlandish.

[unblock]

2. is this supposedly free-standing legislation or an amendment attached to another bill?

because it sounds an awful lot like a poison pill amendment -- something odious that gets attached to a bill to make sure it doesn't become law.

[steve2470]

3. I found this site, badly translated from Arabic:

http://www.sotaliraq.com/mobile-item.php?id=108336#axzz1tCq0pSbc

Anyone read Arabic here ?

badly translated Arabic here:

"Marriage and sex with the dead farewell

Journal of the Republic (Egypt) on Thursday, 19 April 2012, and an update as stated in the TV program (Egypt Today) provided by the professor (Tawfiq Okasha) on the channel (Lafraain), we discuss here the scandal shameful that speak to the foreign press by the Arab Al-Mustaqbal Iraq / Baghdad / 25/4/2012 Kazem cup erythema is certain that we are living in a time of strange par excellence, time has become a religion, custom, and custom we have, and became the evil known, and known as an evil, time is lost when norms, assets and the principles and noble values, and it involves some Arab parliaments in pens Bellows, and repudiated the rules of dialogue based on the rationale sound, Until the day he appeared in a we man a fool amid the Egyptian Parliament, which calls for members of the Council to include their voices to the voice, and sustenance in the pressure on the Council to work provisions (law ) and the issuance of the law allowed a man to have sex with his wife after her death, and for six hours, in the sense that the lawmaker religious very (very) wants to restore the rights of men to normal, by allowing him lying with the funeral of his wife having sex....."

The Google Translate popup keeps interfering with copying.

[steve2470]

5. also this site in Arabic:

http://www.elnashra.com/news/show/466800/

[Recursion]

14. I speak Arabic

The translation seems as good as any computer translation, but that doesn't tell us anything. This is some guy who's not even from Egypt saying this is being considered in the Egyptian parliament with no documentation to back that up. Think about how rumors about legislation get spread in the US ("death panels!&quot and add a culture and language gap to that (Egyptian Arabic is not Levantine or Mesopotamian Arabic, and neither is English).

So: are people in the Middle East saying this is happening? To that I can give an unqualified "yes".

Is this actually happening? No idea from the sources I've seen. I'll check Al Ahram (the "official" Egyptian paper) and Al Quds (the expat paper) and see what they're saying.

[riderinthestorm]

6. It was reported by Al Arabiya which is not known for sensationalism

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/25/210198.html

[Starry Messenger]

23. Christian Science Monitor isn't a rag either.

Guess we'll find out?

[snagglepuss]

7. Dan Murphy is simplyy stating his opinion it is "hooey". The information isn't

coming from an anonymous blogger but a columnist in an Egyptian daily newspaper who has a reputation to uphold. Why would a well-known columnist make something like this up as it would be easily disproven.

[ZombieHorde]

8. Who cares? It doesn't hurt anyone. Dead bodies are just inanimate objects anyway.

I used to wash dead people at one of my jobs. There is nothing special about them.

[polly7]

9. Are you kidding?

Whether you see nothing special about a dead body, billions around the world see the dead as deserving of the utmost respect. These people aren't roadkill ...... they have families who love them, if I saw anyone desecrating the body of someone I loved, there would be two dead bodies, not one.

[ZombieHorde]

11. Spouces often love each other, so why not let them decide what

is and what is not "desecration?"

They're not trying to set up dead body brothels or anything like that. They're just legalizing necrophilia between husband and wife. You wouldn't see it.

Obviously it is sexist, since it is so one sided, but I don't think that is the main complaint of this alleged bill.

[polly7]

13. No, I wouldn't see it.

Spouses are quite often the biggest abusers in life to their partner. Assuming they're desecrating a body after death 'for love' is naive, and insulting to the rest of the family who may see it as a sick, ugly perversion.

[ZombieHorde]

26. Nothing can be desecrated. It is not possible.

Desecration is an emotion; it is a reaction to perceived stimuli. Desecration is a quality of the perceiver, and not anything else. Your brain adds desecration to the situation.

and insulting to the rest of the family who may see it as a sick, ugly perversion

Doesn't matter. Lots of people see different kinds of sex as sick and ugly, such as drunken group sex or sado-masochism, but that is their personal issue. Certainly, they can use their opinion to influence policy, but if a culture says it's cool, then why not?

[polly7]

27. Sex with a corpse is 'sick and ugly'.

Desecration

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Desecration (disambiguation).

Desecration (also called desacralization or desanctification) is the act of depriving something of its sacred character, or the disrespectful or contemptuous treatment of that which is held to be sacred or holy by a group or individual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desecration


des·e·cra·tion noun \ˌde-si-ˈkrā-shən\

Definition of DESECRATION

: an act or instance of desecrating : the state of being desecrated

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/desecration


Sick, ugly and depraved.

[ZombieHorde]

29. Nothing is really sacred, so nothing can really be desecrated.

Last edited Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Sacred is just an opinion, just like sick, ugly, and depraved are just opinions.

They're feelings some people have. Nothing more and nothing less.

It is all extremely subjective.

[polly7]

30. Your opinion. Which I do understand that you find worth more than any other.

Mine, and millions of others is that human bodies are sacred, and desecrating them after death shows an ugly, warped, disgusting mentality. If you're good with that though .................. congrats.

[ZombieHorde]

32. How did you come to the conclusion human bodies have the quality "sacred?"

Scientific study? Popular opinion?

[ZombieHorde]

34. You are the one hounding me for my stated opinion.

You are the one that started talking to me. I have only been replying to your posts to me.

My own opinion.

Then we agree. Sacred and desecration are just subjective opinions, and not actual qualities of objects or situations.

[polly7]

36. Nah, we agree on nothing.

Most sane people with a bit of decency know full well what makes something sacred, and that desecration is not an opinion, it's an act of depravity. You keep pushing that shtick though. As long as you're convinced of it ......... I'm happy for you.

[Ruby the Liberal]

40. Someone named ZombieHorde defending necrophilia?

I guess some things do just write themselves.

[Rex]

45. Having sex with the undead is unnatural

so is being a zombie.

[Recursion]

15. Says "ZombieHorde"... I detect a conflict of interest... (nt)

[ZombieHorde]

16. I laughed! nt

[Recursion]

17. zombies are the one supernatural being to not have a teen romance yet

Well, maybe zombies and mummies. Actually I'm unclear on the difference between a zombie and a mummy; the theory seems largely the same.

[polly7]

31. Ok, I didn't understand before.

I see where you're coming from zombiehorde .......... good luck with that Maybe though you could just find one pretending they're dead.

[ZombieHorde]

35. There is a 1950's marriage joke in there somewhere. nt

[snooper2]

39. You haven't seen this apparently...Yes Zombies do have a heart and DO LOVE!

[CBGLuthier]

41. My Boyfriend's Back 1993

[Jamastiene]

43. Mummies are usually treated or preserved in some way.

Zombies usually are not "preserved" in some way.

That's my best guess.

[Why Syzygy]

53. ROFLOL

ogaw . This is the first real laugh I have had at DU3!

[snooper2]

38. you are making me LOL ROFL

There is a lot special actually, a whole lot is going on...


What happens to the body after death? Most of us in the Crime Scene Cleanup Industry have had the unfortunate experience of cleaning the remains of a decomposed body. We know there’s an odor and a gooey sludge, but what actually happens to the body after death?

Obviously the first thing that happens when a body dies is the heart stops beating and the body temperature begins to drop. After the heart stops beating, blood is no longer pumped through the body. The capillaries begin to drain from the upper parts of the body and settle in the lower portions of the body. Thus, if a body is lying on a bed, the front of the body will be pale while the back portion will turn a dark red color. What happens to the body after death? In a living being, cells function both aerobically and anaerobically. Upon death the cells of the body cease aerobic respiration, or the function that allows them to work with oxygen. The cells now only function anaerobically, meaning they are only functioning without oxygen. This is the catalyst for rigor mortis. When muscles cells have no choice but to work anaerobically, they produce lactic acid. This lactic acid and myosin fuse together to form a gel, which is responsible for the stiffness found with rigor mortis. Depending on several variables, such as the weather and body activity before death, rigor mortis will set in between fifteen minutes and several hours. The maximum stiffening of the body will generally occur within 12 – 24 hours. The facial muscles are affected first, with other parts of the body soon to follow. As cells eventually die, the body loses it’s ability to fight off bacteria. This begins the process of decomposition. Internal organisms become very active and begin to attack the digestive system. Gases are created and the intestines explode. This leads to the relentless attack of other systems in the body, which will decompose at different times after death.

The five stages of decomposition are:

Initial Decay – body appears to be fresh externally, however internally the decomposition has already begun

Putrefaction – body swollen from internal gases, smell of decaying flesh, change in body color

Black Putrefaction – body cavity ruptures. Flesh begins to turn black with a creamy consistency. Odor of decaying flesh very strong

Butyric Fermentation – body begins to dry out. A cheesy odor develops and mold becomes present

Dry Decay – body is nearly dry and the rate of decay slows

http://www.cleanupblog.com/decomposition/what-happens-to-the-body-after-death/

[Starry Messenger]

47. I'm sorry it has taken me a couple of days to respond to this.

Tough week at work. Anyway.

Zombie, I really wish you had started your own thread on this if you had wished to discuss necrophilia itself. I posted the story in hopes of dispelling the momentum and traction a certain right-wing meme that had settled into some threads on DU. The story was not itself about sexual practices, but about what the public is willing to believe about Islamic people and practices. I myself am an atheist, as I know you are too, but I'm sure we can agree there isn't really any benefit to allowing right-wing smears to perpetuate whether we believe in the religion or not.

There are several human practices that don't hurt anyone, but are considered taboo anyway and are so rare, that posting that it wouldn't matter even if it became common, or suchlike, just wedges open more space for right-wing propaganda. It's like the "cosmetic abortion" meme. Are there women who have abortions for what may seem frivolous reasons? Perhaps, but they are such outliers that it is hardly worth discussing. But if someone came along to a thread and said "Who cares? Women should abort for whatever reason they feel like. It doesn't hurt anyone, it doesn't matter." OK, technically this can be true, but it is such a sensitive and taboo topic that any space left open like that could be used to damage progress for women's rights. Do you see what I'm saying?

[nolabear]

10. Women seem to be beyond time and space. Pregnant two weeks before and sexy six hours after.

Pretty soon we'll be parting the seas and turning water into wine.

[jberryhill]

12. This one had an obvious aroma

[Recursion]

18. Incidentally, nine US states do not have necrophilia laws

Just sayin'

Is it even currently illegal to have sex with your dead wife in Egypt?

[Starry Messenger]

21. Dare I ask which nine?

I'd like to think some things just fall under the category of common sense/avoid doing...

[Zorra]

19. If it will be OK in Egypt to have sex with your dead wife,

will it also be OK to have sex with your mummy?

[Recursion]

20. Oddly enough, necrophilia has a large role in the development of mummification in Egypt

Things you learn as a Classics major...

[guitar man]

22. !!!

I got it

[LibertyLover]

28. In Egyptian History class

we were told that embalmers were believed to have sex with female bodies, so ancient Egyptians generally kept women's bodies at home a couple of days before bringing them to the embalmers to prevent that. Herodotus (either Father of History of Father of Lies, YMMV ) reported the same thing.

[pampango]

25. "It has every thing: The yuck factor, "those creepy Muslims" factor, the lulz factor for those with

a sick sense of humor." (From the CSM article.)

Indeed.

[laconicsax]

42. This thread is hilarious!

[Rex]

44. K&R

Kickitty KICK!

[Starry Messenger]

46. Thank you Rex. nt

[Rex]

51. THANK YOU!

For finding this! I thought it was hooey but did not want to go look. YOU ROCK!

[Douglas Carpenter]

48. knr

[azurnoir]

50. thank you for posting this

I don't know which I find more disturbing that people just automatically believe this stuff or that some people seem to want to believe this stuff

and perhaps a reminder that while women's rights in ME is an important issue and should be dealt with, the broad brush condemnation of Islam under the heading of women's rights had its origins in the rightwing around 2001/2002 that I remember , there should be a mid point in this

[Warren DeMontague]

52. It's not like they want to look at porn... or screw a robot.

I mean, that would be SICK!!!

[SemperEadem]

54. as I said in the locked thread

too bad a simple google search was not used by these idiots who spread this:

http://mortuarytransport.com/muslim-funeral-customs/

The most devout Muslims require the bathing, shrouding and burial within 24 hours of death, even if it means delaying the declared time of death.

and to the detractor to my post in the other column, reading comprehension got past you:

I said

TOO BAD A GOOGLE SEARCH WAS NOT USED BY THESE IDIOTS WHO SPREAD THIS. I didn't say "Western Media idiots". Try to keep up.

[Starry Messenger]

56. Thank you.

Logic and facts are sunshine.

[AverageJoe90]

55. If this is true, then I am quite relieved.

There are enough problems there as it is.