where was your god when a guy is burning alive in a cage?

[Liberal_in_LA]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Raine1967 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Or when Hitler was having people marched into ovens?

[love_me_some_pickles]

1. In the minds of men.

[JI7]

2. either there is no god or god is an asshole

[Nay]

10. That's always been my conclusion, so I'm an atheist. nt

[rug]

21. Or people did it.

[JI7]

22. why didn't god use powers to stop it ?

[rug]

24. Why did people do it?

You are reality-based, aren't you?

[JI7]

26. yes. And that means there is no god

[rug]

27. Theology is a strange reaction to killing by fire.

[JI7]

31. yeah. team sports is probably more of god"s thing

[rug]

32. So, this murder by ISIS leads you to denouncing a god that does not exist, and now football?

[JI7]

38. i didn't believe in god even before isis

[kelliekat44]

95. How can you prove there is no god? There may be no god like man has construed him or her.

How can you prove that there is a god? lYou really can't prove either. It's all about faith and belief. Some have faith and belief that there is no god. Others have faith and belief that there is. It is really a waste of time to belittle faith and belief.

[btrflykng9]

28. because God gave people free-will n/t

[Vattel]

41. By that logic we shouldn't stop murder because that would undermine free will.

[btrflykng9]

43. we aren't God

we don't have anything to do with enforcing, undermining or maintaining free will.

[Vattel]

44. I don't get your point.

If I could easily stop some asshole from lighting someone on fire, I would and should stop the asshole. Why doesn't the same hold for God? It doesn't help to say that God gave the asshole free will. The asshole's free will isn't a reason for me not to stop him from lighting someone on fire. So why is it a reason for God not to stop him from lighting someone on fire?

edited for clarity

[cleanhippie]

45. Since the concept of 'god' is inherently irrational, getting a rational answer from a believer

in an irrational god is an exercise in futility.


IOW, you're not alone when you don't get the point of irrational replies.

[tkmorris]

51. Which is why large portions of this thread read like a Monty Python skit

Some people seem to think that as long as they keep talking they are making a legitimate argument.

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. "I could easily stop some asshole..."

It would be YOUR free will that led you to stop said asshole.

[Vattel]

47. I don't get your point.

Why shouldn't God exercise his free will to stop said asshole?

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. Because He chooses not to?

[Humanist_Activist]

55. Yeah, thats the problem, such a god would be evil. n/t

[cleanhippie]

87. Then that makes him a first-class asshole.

Anyone with the power to stop it that chooses not to, is, by definition, an asshole.

[btrflykng9]

80. That again, would not seem to constitute free will.

God has allowed us to exercise free will which means we are free to do some pretty awful things to each other. If God prevented us from doing the bad things we would live in a Utopia. That would not be living under free will.

If we are going from the basis that God is God and as such perfect, He would not take orders from us as to how and when a sin should be judged or punished.

[phil89]

52. Anyone worshiping a god who would allow such atrocities

is a disturbed individual.

[rug]

61. Reacting to a war crime by calling religious believers disturbed is more than disturbing.

[cleanhippie]

89. Be careful, comments like that are sure to attract them.

Sorry, looks like I was too late.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

74. He was busy crafting his image in slices of toast and rust stains under viaducts.

[seveneyes]

39. Or just busy making and playing in the larger scheme of things

The possibilities are endless and much out of our hands. People, on the other hand can be controlled by society.

[hifiguy]

3. Nowhere in this universe.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

- Epicurus

[marym625]

5. I love this

Always have but often forget about it.

Thanks

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. You want God to zot out all evil instantly?

That only works for the sinless.

[JI7]

25. Not all evil. i can understand not doing anything

To someone who stole food.

[notadmblnd]

40. Only works for the sinless

SMH

[marym625]

4. Those are some sick mother fuckers

Twisted.

What god? Whose god?

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Historically the gods seem to like this sort of spectacle.

Not that any of them actually exist of course.

[LiberalArkie]

7. Out playing golf with the rest of the CEO's

[GeorgeGist]

8. Making crickets.

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. Finally, someone making a strong case for atheism.

[JI7]

13. or a case for god being an asshole

[rug]

62. How can something that does not exist be an asshole?

[phil89]

53. You think it makes sense to worship a god

with less morality than a person? I would have stopped the atrocities if I could. Evidently god didn't feel the need.

[MicaelS]

12. Letting people exercise their Free Will.

He gave people His Laws to live by.
He gave people the ability to know the difference between Right And Wrong.
He gave people Free Will.
After that it was up to people.

Hitler didn't march those people into the ovens all by himself. It took lots of other people who agreed with what was being done.

[Dreamer Tatum]

15. Shhhh....the weak need simple answers to difficult questions. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Oh

The irony

[JI7]

18. why not intervene in cases where free will leads to such

Suffering ?

[btrflykng9]

33. He already did a long time ago. That's why we have forgiveness and grace.

[wildbilln864]

42. biggest crock of shit I ever heard! IMHOOC! n/t

[tkmorris]

58. Tell that to all the dead babies in the world

"Forgiveness and grace"... bloody hell.

[rug]

64. How did you go from this killing to dead babies?

[Major Hogwash]

90. Thank you very much for that answer.

That is the correct answer, of course, but it isn't easy to convert people on the internet.

[btrflykng9]

92. Oh, I'm not trying to convert any one

People can believe what they want to believe; however, that also means that I'm entitled to my belief just as much as the next person. I almost never discuss religion or God but every now and then I like to throw my two cents in.

[btrflykng9]

29. +1

[GliderGuider]

14. It's his favourite form of entertainment - just look at the Inquisition...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

16. Come on, Lib, "everything happens for a reason" and "God has a plan for everyone"

[rug]

17. On the internet declaiming.

[Terra Alta]

19. deciding the outcome of Super Bowl XLIX.

at least in some peoples' minds.

[Yorktown]

20. God? He (It?) was reading the latest issue of Charlie Hebdo.

[Ykcutnek]

23. At an XTC concert.

[LWolf]

30. ???

Whose god? Whom are you asking? Are you assuming that your readers have a god? Or, that if they do, it is a particular god?

[miyazaki]

34. God is a kid with an ant farm, he's not planning anything.

Constantine?

[bluestateguy]

35. God didn't do it. Evil people did it.

He gives us free will. Some people misuse it.

[phil89]

54. Where is your evidence

for this claim?

[rug]

65. Are you claiming this murder was not the result of a free act?

Well, then, who or what forced them to burn this man to death?

[zipplewrath]

68. I'd rather argue against than for.

I've always said, given the choice of having to argue for or against the existence of free will in any controlled debate, or in a court of law, I'd rather argue against it. There's precious little evidence for it and a mountain of data that suggests it doesn't exist. Not sure which is right, but I know which would be easier to argue.

[rug]

70. Yes, it is easier. But if you win that argment, you'll then have to answer this question.

[brooklynite]

75. Is it a free act if God tells you to do so?

[rug]

76. No.

Next question.

[brooklynite]

78. "And kill them wherever you find them"

Quran 2:191-193 - And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

or, if you prefer...

2 Chronicles 15:12-13-They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

[rug]

82. And?

[brooklynite]

85. Upthread, the claim is that "God didn't do it"

I agree -- God doesn't exist. But the people who do believe in God should explain why the fundamentalist interpretation of God's commands shouldn't be followed.

[cleanhippie]

91. 10 bucks says you don't get a coherent answer to that.

You're more likely gonna get a churlish deflection that has little do with your question.

And witness a compulsive need to had the last word.

[NYC Liberal]

83. If God created everything then he created evil.

It would not be a denial of free will for evil to have never existed as an option to choose in the first place.

Besides, if God gets no blame for evil acts because "free will", then he gets no credit for the good ones. No more thanking God for things.

And a whole lot of praying needs to go out the window. After all, most prayer is essentially asking for God to muck around with free will. Can't pray to God that your captors won't kill you; that's up to them.

[Major Hogwash]

88. No.

Just no.

[rug]

94. That premise doesn't follow.

Creating humans with the capacity to do right or to do wrong is not the creation of evil.

Neither GD nor this thread is the place to discuss theology any more than it is to post gratuitous snark like was posted upthread. It's an interesting question to post in the Religion Group.

But I do have one question before dropping the subject. Are you arguing there is or is not free will?

[cpwm17]

36. Planning the next tsunami:

[notadmblnd]

37. God receives no blame for evil committed by others from the religious types.

However, he is always given credit when ever a bad situation has a good outcome such as a child being cured of cancer by a physician. "It's a miracle" they'll all hoot and holler.

[flvegan]

48. Wow. This is either satire or shockingly simpleton-esque.

Or, once again, emotion has taken over. Granted, as a vegan who has posted on DU for a long time, I fully understand the needs of others to SAFO (Shit All Fucking Over) things that one has passion for.

So, lets scale stupid, can we? At what point do we, as humans who may or may not believe in God, insist that He "shoulda/coulda been there" for who/whatever? I like the rush to Hitler, that was good! What about the car accident that took the life of some kid? When the Yankees won the Series? The 5 million shelter animals that will die this year (this is for those that care only for doggies and kitties and fuck the "taste good" animals of 'Murica...fuck yeah!)? The homeless? Where was He when Bush (any of 'em) was voted in? Can I blame God for the Camry yet?

Maybe we here need a collective Outrage Meter, complete with a Blame Compass so that we can point whatever "evil" we deem (emotionally or otherwise) important today right the fuck at God where it belongs.

Growing up and putting on our big boy/girl pants is another option.

[kwassa]

57. Outrage is the chief form of DU currency, and each member has their personal outrage issue.

I like the idea of a meter, by the way.

My outrage is about the sick fucks that burned this guy. That is my personal issue.

[flvegan]

59. Okay, stop it.

You appear to have a focus on much of the problem. This is the thread where we blame God, or something.

[kwassa]

72. I will blame the anti-vaxxers.

or maybe the pro-vaxxers.

[flvegan]

77. What if you blamed them both?

For the same reason, even?

God, this could (whoops, sorry! uh...fairy tale DUer hate sky dude who is responsible for Hitler, pain and probably Twitter or something, yeah) get epic!!

[kwassa]

81. If I can't blame more than the pro and anti vaxxers, then my effort is truly weak.

What else are we upset about today???

Outrage here has a short shelf life, and we are so over Deflate-Gate.

[tkmorris]

60. I don't think anyone that believes in fairy tales is wearing their big girl/boy pants

Do you?

[flvegan]

66. Depends on the "fairy tales" and who is invoking that label, considering.

If you care to share, I'll address further.

[goldent]

67. But I don't wanna put on my big boy pants.

If there was a God I wouldn't have to.

[flvegan]

69. Indeed. n/t

[madville]

56. Ever read the bible?

It's full of murder, mass killing, and violence.

Are talking about the god that eliminates the world's population with an epic flood (except for Noah and his people and animals of course).

[Jamastiene]

63. Probably face palming because humans

can't seem to quit hating each other, much less try to keep from self destructing.

That is one question, though, that I would love to hear someone answer. I have asked it before too, but none of the answers seem to ever make sense.

[freshwest]

93. The one that always stuck in my mind was this one:

May have been from the Furry Freak Brothers, don't remember:

Mankind, complaining about the goings on here on Planet Earth:

'Hey, God, hey! Look at this damn thing!'

Voice of God thunders down from Heaven with lightning:

I am the Creator, not the Repairman!



Works for me.

[Dreamer Tatum]

71. Reading your 34,000 posts and laughing at you. nt

[LeftyMom]

79. You know who I like even less than god botherers? Ghoulish assholes who use tragedies

for cheap, lazy arguments.

[Dr. Strange]

84. I bet he was watching The Big Bang Theory.

[Ed Suspicious]

86. I think the religious might argue that

A) The lord works in mysterious ways

B) Pain and suffering is God's megaphone

[BlueStater]

96. Another day, another anti-religion thread that isn't even posted in the right forum. n/t

[Raine1967]

97. Locking: Via the GD SOP:

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum. Conspiracy theories and disruptive meta-discussion are forbidden. For more information, click here.

For more detail this thread clarifies:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978

Threads about the existence/non-existence of God, threads discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of religion in general, and threads discussing the truth/untruth of religious dogma are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted under Religion.

Please redirect this to one of the religion groups.

Thank you,
Raine