Do you remember a prez candidate ever openly demeaning another prez?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

My husband and I just saw the clip of Romney saying "Even Jimmy Carter would have called the OBL raid"

We each took it completely differently.

My immediate thought was that he was demeaning JC as being too ineffectual. Mocking him
as a person who makes bad decisions

My husband took it completely opposite...that he was using JC as an example of a dove, a preacher,
who does not believe in war or killing. Almost like a compliment.

I think I am right, just based on the sarcastic, disrespectful tone of his voice.

I don't remember another presidential candidate ever who has used that tone when describing a former
president, do you? Even when describing Bush, who started a fake war, with thousands upon
thousands dying. There is a certain level of respect that transcends most everything.

[Raven]

1. I took it as you did...a gratuitous insult

to a former President. Romney just needs to keep talking. He'll defeat himself.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. I was just thinking the same thing! This guy is a powder keg ready to

blow. I am convinced he is anal retentive and overly-defensive. McCain had
the history of blowing his top...but to me, I don't think his temper was necessarily
part of a deeper character flaw like I think Romney's is.

Maybe our strategy should be to somehow create situations where we put Romney in
a position to show how flawed his personality is. Kind of like how he flipped when
arguing about how corporations are people.

[lacrew]

10. I guess I see it differently

I envision a 'war room', with consultants working on crafting Romney's retort. I think it was a planned line....and he gave it a test drive.

[SalviaBlue]

28. I agree with you that this was scripted. It is still, however, a gratuitous insult to Carter.

[lacrew]

32. Its a trap, Jim

Of course it was an insult to Carter...meant to alter the discussion.

[karynnj]

43. It is, but it is more a linking of Obama to Carter - with the hope that the Carter image

with many as ineffective as President sticks to Obama. ( The Democrats are partly responsible for that when - until 2004 - no nominee invited him to their convention. 2004 was the first time he spoke again to a Democratic convention.)

[NNN0LHI]

2. Fucking Reagan blamed the recession that began 2 years into his first term on President Carter

And the most unbelievable part is that a lot of voters fell for it.

Don

[Fumesucker]

4. The Republicans ran against Carter until after Clinton was president..

Every single thing was Carter's fault right through GHW Bush's presidency..

[JHB]

20. They're still doing it. anything they can peg on Carter, they do

Remember their claiming the Housing Bubble (of the 2000s) was the fault of the Community Reinvestment Act (of 1977)?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. But even that could be considered fair game in politics. It's the mocking way Romney spoke

that bothers me so much. If all the wingnuts yak about patriotism and respect...they should
be critical of MR

[CrispyQ]

25. I came of age during the first Earth Days & loved Carter's message of conservation.

But I know a lot of people who were pissed at it. They didn't want to hear that Americans should turn down their thermostats & drive 55. So when Reagan rode in on his shiny media horse & said that it was morning in America, too many were happy to vote for that message. I often wonder where we would be as country if we had traveled Carter's path instead.

[got root]

3. I'm glad they brought him up because he made the same call and was

Crucified when it went bad.

Just goes to show nothing matters but winning with these thugs.

[catbyte]

9. Even winning doesn't matter unless they are the ones winning

Republicans are currently the most despicable lifeforms on this planet.

[Bandit]

6. Remember the failed mission to get the Iranian hostages?

Carter got full blame for the US Marine's failure in that mission. They lost two helicopters and never even got into Iran...In my opinion that was a major reason Carter lost the election...

[leftynyc]

26. Precisely why

Pres Obama has every right to crow about killing bin laden. If the raid had gone bad, he would have gotten ALL the blame.

[treestar]

37. Precisely

By bringing in Carter, Mittens shows Republican hypocrisy. If the OBL mission had failed, they'd blame it on Obama. It succeeds, and all the credit goes to the Navy Seals.

[RZM]

29. Technically they actually were in Iran when the operation went haywire

Last edited Tue May 1, 2012, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)

The accident happened at a staging ground within Iran itself. It was also after the mission was aborted that the plane and helicopter collided on the ground.

But it was the first thing I thought of when Mittens made his comment. I guess you technically can't say that Carter ordered the raid, because the mission was aborted before the raid commenced, but he still stuck his neck out and paid a political price for it.

That is one reason why Obama should thank his lucky stars the Bin Laden raid achieved its objectives without US casualties. Had something gone wrong, he probably would have faced a shitstorm. From a political standpoint, it was a risky call.

IMO, that's one reason that it took until 2012 to actually get Bin Laden. We had shots at him going back before 9/11, but the intelligence was never quite good enough to pull the trigger and have a reasonable chance of success. This time it was done right.

[bluestate10]

34. A group of Special Froces operatives had bin laden in their scope sights in Tora Bora.

All they needed was the go from Bush II to attempt to capture of kill bin laden. The SF were told to standdown. Romney now claims that ANY President would have gotten bin laden if that President had good evidence on bin laden's location. What evidence is better than a group of Special Force troops sitting watching the bloodthirsty motherfucker through their fieldscopes? Romney, once again proves that he is a lying, history reforming sack of shit that has not the romotest idae of what character and courage in the face of uncertainty are.

[RobertEarl]

35. Bullcrap

They could have taken Osama out a hundred times. Bush "quit thinking about him" is why he lived so long.

Osama was used as a terror card to be played when needed.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

36. plus there was always that theory that the Bin Laden family negotiated with Bush Sr...saying

Insure the US doesn't ever get attacked again, and my son will not hunt Jr down. It
made so much sense to me

[RobertEarl]

40. First I heard of that

makes sense. Bush was a royal kiss-up.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. It was a really cheap shot, especially considering

that Carter did make a very tough decision to try to rescue the Iran hostages; and that attempt failed. That failure probably doomed his re-election, but Carter showed real cojones by going ahead with that attempt.

So Obama, knowing what had happened in 1980 and what the consequences of failure would be, really showed nerve when he ordered the raid on OBL.

Romney is showing his true colors as a total d-bag - insulting both Carter and Obama - as well as a lying sack of crap.

[JoePhilly]

11. It was mainly Romney screwing up again, but he kind of meant both.

I think Romney intended it to mean that Carter, the weak ineffectual Dove that the GOP claims he was, would have made the same decision that Obama made ... and so therefore, Obama killing OBL is no big deal.

What Romney screwed up is that Carter made the exact same BOLD decision, and unfortunately, the outcome was the reverse. Carter didn't get a second term in part because of the failure of that mission. It was a bold decision, and it failed and cost him politically.

So Romney makes the opposite point on both counts. Carter made a bold decision, like Obama did. Carter was not weak, and Obama killing OBL was a huge victory.

Minus 2 points for Romney.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

15. Chuck's grilling Senor now, RMs aide. Senor said "RM meant that Carter was ineffectual in matters

of war and peace. And even he would have called the OBL raid." like it was a no-brainer, even for him.

Blah blah blah. It's so funny when they say "It's so sad to politicize the death of OBL". It makes
me laugh. It's like they are saying it's a horrible slur against OBL.

Like the way you think.... "minus 2 for Romney"

[JoePhilly]

17. I like Chuck ... we recently took a vaction in DC ...

And we went to the Senate building ... Kay Hagen has a "Breakfast with Kay" every Wednesday morning and we went to meet her ... anyway, the kids and I got separated from my wife, so we ended up on different elevators.

We met at Hagen's office and my wife walks up and she's laughing. She end up on an elevator with Schumer and two GOP senators (she wasn't sure which ones). She said Schumer was all smiles, real nice, chatty.

And she said the two GOP guys looked like some one peed in their Wheaties. Never smiled. Never said a word. Scowls.

She wondered if they'd just come from a TV interview in which he kicked their butts.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

21. wow JP that's cool. can anyone just walk around in the senate building? or did you have

to show tickets or something? I lived and worked in DC for 13 months but never
made it to the Senate Bldg. Wish I had

I truly think the writing's on the wall to the GOP. Deep inside they know that Romney's not
the type of man who people like and that he won't win. Maybe it's making them more
cranky than usual.

I think it's more evident that they know they will lose based on the fact that none of
them want to be VP. (except probably Noot and Ricky). Jon Stewart had a clip
about this...each of the front-runners saying the other should be VP. did you see it?
It's almost like they know MR will lose, and can't decide what is most politically expedient
for them....to get the exposure for 2016, even though it's on a losing team? Or wait
it out and remain untarnished.

[JoePhilly]

23. Here's what you do if you plan a trip to DC ...

You can contact you House Rep's office, and your Senator's office. Most of them will help you schedule activities of various types.

Kay Hagen thing is the Wednesday morning "Coffee with Kay", that's the actual name. And so you show up at like 9am, and you meet some of her staff, get some coffee, they talk to you some ... and then, you kind of move towards her office, almost like a line, but its less formal. And you get like 5-10 minutes to talk to her, take some pictures. I'm told that lots of senators do this. Once you get in the her Senate building, you can pretty much just walk around too. So call your Senator's office and they'll give you details on what they can do.

Our House rep David Price has his members of his staff give capitol tours. I think most House members rotate members of their staff to do this too. Usually, the staffer knows some special things about the capitol building, they'll show you things that are special to your state, famous reps, stuff like that. He also got how passes so we could sit in the House gallery. We got to see Boner gavel the House in session, and then leave, after which a few member of the House spoke on various issues ... got to see a few tea party nuts complain, got to see a couple Dems who's names I should recall talk about a couple issues like tax fairness and women's rights ... overall an interesting hour or so.

I agree on the GOP ... its imploding. Stewart nailed them in that clip. The remaining sane GOP members are hoping to ride out 2012 and the tea party, and then they plan to try to find the middle again for 2016. I don't think they can get back.

My hope, the tea party flips out after Romney looses.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. thanks for all the info....gonna save this. I actually paid a deposit on an apartment for

the inauguration. I am that confident. Haven't booked a flight yet though...wanna see a couple more UE reports. haha. The apartment is just three blocks from the Capitol, but I don't think they allow tours and such during this period. But, next time.
Luckily, the guy on vrbo, didn't realize it was inauguration time, so I got it for the regular price. Everyone else said that they hadn't decided how much to charge yet.

[JoePhilly]

31. We rented a vrbo ... around 11th and K I think it was ... just north of the Natural history museum.

I'd like to do the inauguration ... we lived in Rockville back in the early 90s ... still have friends up there, so we could probably stay with one of them ... but would be tough to pull kids out of school.

But I agree .. Obama should win in a landslide, the media will try to keep it close, but I don't see it happening.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. well, if it helps, Jan 20th falls on a Sunday, so, don't kids get off on that Monday, the real

inauguration day?

[JoePhilly]

45. I'll need to check ... my kids are in "year round" school. Still ... going to see the Prez ...

could be a great out.

[MineralMan]

12. I thought it was an insult.

Carter is remembered by many as a weak President, partly because the last months of his Presidency were a horrible mess because of the hostage crisis. Romney is calling on that memory with this comment. It's a cheap shot, and was intended as a cheap shot. I expect Carter to be maligned in his campaign many times. I don't think it will work, though.

[magical thyme]

13. he was calling JC weak and ineffectual

armchair chickenhawks are like that.

And it's another example of ouRMoney's not getting it. Candidates are not supposed to demean a former president. His lackeys are supposed to do it for him, so he can personally remain presidential and above it all.

Instead he looks like the bitter, mean-spirited, stingy, out of touch wannabe that, well, he is.

He doesn't get that his tactics only worked against an over sized field of nutcases that split the nutcase vote 6 ways of Sunday. The actual election will most likely be one-on-one. There may be a small % sliced off to greens or our crackpot (Nader) on one side, counterbalanced by a small % sliced off to Ron Paul or some other crackpot on the other. But he won't have 60% of the vote split into 6 pieces this go-round.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. that's what I keep waiting for, to see MR and the President side by side. Obama is such a genuinely

kind and respectful person. When Romney tries to be nice, it comes across as smirky...wish I could
think of an better example...only one that immediately comes to mind is the Church Lady on
SNL.

[handmade34]

14. it WAS an insult!

and I was sorely offended

[LASlibinSC]

16. I agree with you. Methinks

your is husband is giving him way to much credit. I remember the disdain and ridicule thrown at Pres. Carter by the right AND the left because it was the 1st election I could have voted in. I was so disgusted, it was a decade before I voted in my first election.

[WI_DEM]

19. And here Jimmy Carter had just been complimentary towards Mittens.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. He did? I missed that...what did he say?

[Autumn]

27. In just about every presidential election I have seen that happen.

Any time a republican is running against an incumbent Democratic President.

[Egalitarian Thug]

30. Yes. The earliest example I recall was reagan. His Presidency threw out all the rules and signaled

the implementation of The Great Regression. He had no respect, nor paid any deference to his predecessor and tried, mostly successfully, to blame President Carter for the results of his policies.

[bluestate10]

33. Such is the state of the modern republican party.

Jimmie Carter made gutsy calls as President, some like Camp David worked out. Others such as the attempt to free US hostages held in Iran ended tragically. President Obama showed that he learned historical lessons when he sent in more helicopters that the military said it needed for the bin laden raid, Obama also sent in the best possible copters. Romney would not have gotten to any of those decisions because he would have taken the easier, most indecisive route.

[lpbk2713]

39. Anything goes ... they're desperate.

The end has always justified the means with these scumbags.

[kenny blankenship]

41. I have no arguments with drawing contrasts

I'd love to hear some Democratic candidates draw contrasts between themselves and their party versus the Reagan Bush status quo, which has strangled this country for the past 30+ years.

That is, if they think they can.

[karynnj]

42. You are right - and it is not the first time he attacked Carter

In his irresponsible oped on Iran, he did. Here is a link to that oped. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mitt-romney-how-i-would-check-irans-nuclear-ambition/2012/03/05/gIQAneYItR_story.html

In that op-ed, he said:

In the op-ed, Romney, fighting for the Republican presidential nomination, called Obama “America’s most feckless president since [Jimmy] Carter” and said that as the president “frets,” the radical regime is developing a bomb.

From Boston Globe coverage of Kerry blasting him for it - http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2012/03/senator-john-kerry-attacks-mitt-romney-against-obama-iran-policy/9UYuD9VnhyFmv7N03qPtLJ/index.html

The tiny excerpt, shows Romney's intentions. 1) Link Obama to Carter and 2) characterize both as ineffective and weak - likely drawing on many people's perception of Carter.

(Kerry's senate response was very good and really called Romney out -

[Laura PourMeADrink]

49. "while America’s feckless president, Jimmy Carter, fretted in the White House"...what

a freaking asshole.

guess Obama turned this whole diabolical plan upside down

Maybe he can run on bombing Iran just to show he's a macho man. Bet that would
go over well.

this is getting to be so much fun. Obama is showing he is ten steps ahead of these
jerks.

However, I am sad....I want us out of Afghanistan ASAP. All I can think is that
Obama knows something we don't know (about why we are still there)

[karynnj]

50. I agree with you on Afghanistan

I hope it is not just politics that dictate a planned, phased withdrawal. It does seem that there was a big change announced in the role Americans will be playing - and they are FAR from the surge that McCrystal, Gates and Clinton convinced him to do. It does seem that they have greatly cut the power of AQ, but I worry about using the idea of attrition in a guerrilla war, where it seems that monthly we killed the "second most important" - and others simply replaced them. ( I am old enough that my perspective is colored by Vietnam.)

As to Romney, I think that oped was his attempt to both claim foreign policy creds and to create an image of himself as strong. I think the fact that very little was heard of his speech - with very little propagation on the Republican's excellent echo chamber suggests that Republican powers that be were unimpressed.

I really do not think that the country wants a brand new war with a country bigger and stronger than Iraq. I think Kerry stated Obama's actions on Iran very well - and they sound sober and careful, not ignoring the danger of Iran getting nuclear weapons, but aware that we are not at a point where war would be a last resort to preventing a REAL threat of Iran using WMD. This in fact is what Bush SHOULD have done in 2003 - and likely avoided the Iraq war. Saddam actually was making many concessions while under pressure - the real pressure to go to war was that Bush wanted to do it before summer and the hot weather came. The likely pressure was that a peaceful solution WAS possible - and he prefered war. Could it be that this is where Romney is too?

[loyalsister]

44. Obama said that Reagan couldn't get through a presidential primary

I think that the republicans might consider that an insult to Reagan.

Both statements are insults to their reputations. Suggesting that Reagan was anything other than a radical RWer is insulting to the people who hold him up as a hero.

[handmade34]

46. difference

is perception vs fact

[loyalsister]

47. What are the facts?

Jimmy carter gave a similar order. Yet, was perceived to be a dove.
Reagan was conservative. Todays but nothing like todays RW.

I don't mind Obama's comments. I don't like hearing the comments about Jimmy Carter, but I acknowledge that it is a campaign and they are similar. It's campaign season- that's what they do.

As for disrespecting presidents, I don't think that at least in modern history I am aware of none have been as disrespected as Obama. As much as Clinton was hated, they treated him like he was president and didn't publicly claim they wanted him to fail.

[Ruby the Liberal]

48. The only things Rmoney respects are money and power.

Hell, he can't even manage to spit out a 10 minute stump speech without insulting someone - because he HAS no empathy. He simply can't relate.

It was very kind of your husband to look at the glass-half-full side, but I'm not buying it. Romney was being his usual asshole self.