Watch Lobbyist Eat His Words After Saying Drinking Roundup Is ‘Not Dangerous to Humans’

[Scuba]

Sorry, I could not get the video to embed. It's at the link.

http://ecowatch.com/2015/03/25/lobbyist-eats-words-glyphosate/

[Editor’s note: Not sure if glyphosate, the toxic active ingredient in the Monsanto’s flagship herbicide Roundup, is safe? This week it was “classified as probably carcinogenic to humans” according to a new report from the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), the Word Health Organization’s France-based cancer research arm.]

Here’s a lesson for lobbyists: eating your words is a lot safer than drinking the poison you sell. Today’s lesson is brought to you by Dr. Patrick Moore, who has worked for pesticide manufacturers like Monsanto, refusing to drink Monsanto’s product just seconds after claiming it’s safe to do so:

Once upon a time, Dr. Patrick Moore was an early Greenpeace member. Now he is a public relations consultant for the polluting companies that Greenpeace works to change: Big Oil, pesticides and GMO agribusiness, forestry, nuclear power … anyone who puts up the money for truth-benders who appear to carry scientific and environmental authority.

This is the best gotcha-moment I’ve seen on camera since tobacco lobbyist Joe Bast, CEO of The Heartland Institute, was forced to acknowledge and re-affirm his denial that smoking cigarettes is bad for your health, courtesy of Lee Fang for Republic Report.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

1. HA! K&R. nt

[Baitball Blogger]

2. The guy is a sleaze of the highest order!

Some of the best interviewing gotchas come from foreign reporters. That's because they haven't drank the Koolaid yet and it makes the fast talking interviewee more uncomfortable, I think.

[stone space]

3. Hilarious!

[Oilwellian]

4. "No, I'm not an idiot."

But he sure thinks we are. Sleazebag.

[KamaAina]

5. I'd rather see him drink his words.

Bottoms up!

[ThoughtCriminal]

6. "Visible Results in 24 Hours!"

Bet it takes less than that.

[KansDem]

7. What the hell does "Rainproof in 30 minutes!" mean?

What's in this crap?

[Jefferson23]

8. I know, I wondered the same thing..must be an Iron Dome kind of thing..seals off any

chance of losing its lethal punch.

[Hekate]

9. I think it means it absorbs quickly and can't be washed off. Got that?

Ew. Ew. Ew.

[louis-t]

10. Once it dries you can't get it off.

Rain will eventually wash it away and it will kill anything in the surrounding area. They used some on a brick patio at my office and it killed 50 sq ft of grass. The dirt looked like a nuclear accident had happened.

[Treant]

15. It's penetrable enough

that 30 minutes post-spray enough has been absorbed to do its job.

Nothing more.

Penetrability can be improved by using something like dimethyl sulfoxide (a scary, scary chemical that's a component of...garlic, and both smells and tastes garlicky).

DMSO can be used to carry any organic molecule through a low-penetrability barrier and there was a craze some years ago of people applying it. In and of itself it is, fortunately, harmless.

Penetrability doesn't mean anything scary, merely that the cuticle of the plant is permeable to the substance. Plant cuticles are also permeable to foliar applied nutrients, water, carbon dioxide, and oxygen.

[truedelphi]

32. Good deal of information in your post.

Only thing I would amend - DMSO is indeed a fabulous product in terms of getting rid of skin problems. I have used it to keep a strange looking mole down to a very small size for the past eighteen months. But it works through helping the top layers of skin slough off. So you do not want to get it inside yr mouth or especially not in your eyes. If there are small kids in the house, make sure they can't drink it.

A lot of people use it for the pain of arthritis. I get bitten by so many ants while out in the garden, enough in the spring and summer that my arthritis clears up. So I haven't used it for that.

[bvar22]

43. I use DMSO on my feet for arthritis too,

...but the effects are immediate, but don't seem to last very long.

You CAN taste the garlic almost immediately after putting DMSO on your skin.
That is why there haven't been any double blind tests on DMSO.
Those who get the real thing WILL know it,

...so I guess, according to DU experts, that DMSO is just WOO.

[ND-Dem]

66. getting ant-bit relieves your arthritis? any idea why?

[appal_jack]

177. Can't speak for truedelphi (or ants) but...

Back when I was experiencing some arthritic symptoms in my hands from Lyme Disease, I found that brushing my hands up against stinging nettles helped with the symptoms. Maybe a common chemical in the nettles' and ants' stingers helps to reduce inflammation?

People would get really freaked out when they saw me in the woods happily running my knuckles under the nettle leaves!

-app

[ND-Dem]

208. interesting.

[bvar22]

190. The stories are anecdotal, but there are many....

...that claim that bee-stings will stop arthritis pain & swelling too.
We keep Honey Bees, but I've never been stung enough to find out.


Maybe this year.

[DeSwiss]

134. The craze goes on.

I use DMSO every single day and I've used it everyday for almost two years. There's nothing to be afraid of.

It works fabulously for its intended purpose.

[ND-Dem]

64. it means the chemical won't wash off in the rain by 30" after being sprayed on to crops.

[Enthusiast]

11. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[mountain grammy]

12. I'm all for holding him down and pouring the shit down his throat

the arrogant piece of shit.

[ND-Dem]

67. +100. he said it was safe to drink; why wouldn't he want to drink it?

[Cha]

119. Oh I dunno.. 'cause he's a shit-faced Liar?

[Ed Suspicious]

143. He said because he's not an idiot. That made me laugh.

Perfectly safe. Good have a drink. I'd be happy to. Just kidding. Why not? Because I'm not an idiot.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. I held it together until the Good Doctor ...

began walking off set ... and he said: "You're a complete jerk."

No, Good Doctor ... claiming one can drink a quart of a toxic substance then refusing to drink said toxic substance because you're "not an idiot", then claiming that proof of being able to drink that toxic substance is the "some" that tried to commit suicide by drinking said toxic substance, lived, before, again, refusing to drink the toxic substance that didn't kill "some" of those that drank the toxic substance, hoping to kill themselves. That makes YOU a complete jerk.

[Vincardog]

14. "I am not an idiot" response should have been "DO you think WE are?".

[WillyT]

16. K & R !!!

[MisterP]

17. "well, of course we'll change our minds once the science says so!" *smarm smarm*

[TheKentuckian]

18. Thank You For Smoking: Documentary or instruction manual? You decide.

I thought it was fiction but what do I know since I thought Idiocracy was a comedy?

[truedelphi]

33. The last ten years have me convinced that "Idiocracy" is a

Documentary.

[valerief]

19. Boom! Fuckin' whoring hypocrite Moore. nt

[Enrique]

20. "I'd be happy to, not really"

[xocet]

49. Patrick Moore says: "...I'm not stupid."; "No, I'm not an idiot."; and "You're a complete jerk!"n/t

[Curmudgeoness]

21. Thanks for posting this.

We all need a good laugh. If it is so safe, I wonder why he didn't drink it.

Since this guy was a member of Greenpeace years ago, all I can deduce is that he is a whore---anything for money.

[ND-Dem]

69. i'd bet on whore too. but not a very good one, it looks like. hope he gets fired and has to

beg in the streets for genetically-modified food laced with round-up.

[DFW]

22. This is SO fine

It should be required viewing for every farmer that uses the stuff. Every farmer that uses Roundup should be required to eat his own produce. THEN see how much Monsanto is still able to sell.

[Cha]

120. +1!

[gregcrawford]

23. Yet another world-class asshole is hoisted by his own petard!

By the way, what the hell IS a petard, anyway?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

24. No one knows what a petard is.

But I'm pretty sure that the petard holds the world record for most hoisted object in history.

[Buzz Clik]

28. The definition of petard is known, but it's "hoist", not hoisted. Hoist is past tense of "hoise"

[DisgustipatedinCA]

35. Sounds like I was wrong as many ways as I could've been wrong.

On the bright side, I have nowhere to go but up.

[Rex]

37. No you were right. Go look for yourself.

To 'hoist' is present tense.

[Rex]

36. Actually past/participle tense is 'hoisted'

To 'hoist' means action in present tense.

[ND-Dem]

71. It's both. they're alternate forms, but modern english uses 'hoisted' when 'lifted' is meant.

no one knows what 'hoise' means anymore and it's not used.

hoist is still in common use.

[Buzz Clik]

126. Using "hoist" in the modern usage for "hoisted (sic) by his own petard" makes no sense

The Shakespearean quote will remain intact regardless of the evolution and complete redefinition of hoise/hoist.

[ND-Dem]

151. the modern usage works perfectly well.

hoise:

verb (used with object), hoised or hoist, hoising. Archaic.

1.

to hoist.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2015.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hoise


The word remains in modern usage in the phrase hoist with one's own petard, which means "to be harmed by one's own plan to harm someone else" or "to fall into one's own trap," implying that one could be lifted up (hoist, or blown upward) by one's own bomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard

[Buzz Clik]

225. By all means, then, keep misquoting Shakespeare and defending it. n/t

[ND-Dem]

227. since the phrase has entered the common parlance, few are "quoting", or misquoting, shakespeare,

anymore than Shakespeare was quoting Shakespeare. he didn't own the saying and still doesn't.

[ND-Dem]

70. A petard was a small bomb used to blow up gates and walls...

The word remains in modern usage in the phrase hoist with one's own petard, which means "to be harmed by one's own plan to harm someone else" or "to fall into one's own trap," implying that one could be lifted up (hoist, or blown upward) by one's own bomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard

[bvar22]

45. According to several references,

a "petard" was a small bomb, like a hand grenade, that was used in medieval times.
They were very capricious, and occasionally, they exploded prematurely "hoisting" the bomb (petard) thrower into the air.

[Buzz Clik]

25. What a dope.

I certainly am not among the chorus who believe that Roundup is an evil chemical, but claiming it is not toxic? Idiot.

[F4lconF16]

26. A comment from crooksandliars:

It's safe for poor blah people to drink. At least, I mean, it's WAY safer than drinking the shit coming out of the wells now that the oil industry fracked them up the back yard.

[Buzz Clik]

29. Glyphosate is safer to drink than well water in fracking areas?

[F4lconF16]

30. I believe the poster was joking.

Heck if I know, though. Probably depends on just how close your well is. I wouldn't touch either.

[Buzz Clik]

31. Yes, I did recognize the hyperbole, but still...

[ND-Dem]

72. everything is safe for the poor to drink/eat/be exposed to, cause no one cares if they die.

[Buzz Clik]

127. Melodramatic much?

[bvar22]

193. SEE: "Cancer Corridor" in south Loiusiana.

The big refineries and chem companies use poor people's neighborhoods, or immediately adjacent to these neighborhoods for dumping their toxic waste for 100 years.

[BeanMusical]

196. I would say realistic.

[Buzz Clik]

226. Ok, but it doesn't change the hyperbole, the melodramatic outpouring, or the fact that...

.... the comment was a non sequitur.

[99Forever]

27. K&R

[Rex]

34. LOL! Where are all the GMO experts? They seem to be missing from this thread.

Think they will take the challenge!? If the shit is so safe that an EXPERT says you can drink an entire glass...pony up kids!

Take the 'it might cause cancer' challenge! It's harmless and EXPERT said so!

The difference between reporters in France and pundits in America could not be any more obvious.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

42. At Roundup Cocktail Hour of course. nt

[Initech]

59. Drinking "Roach Killers" - 1/2 shot of whiskey, 1 shot of Roundup, pineapple juice, bitters

[bvar22]

46. This is a great challenge for the many Monsanto shills here.

Go ahead.
Drink a glass!
Monsanto says its safe.

[Rex]

47. From now on I am linking to the GMO EXPERT in all future GMO threads!

Can't wait to see the flip flopping and hiding behind the word 'science' by our resident experts. They pretend to own the word! As if posting corporate propaganda is the absolute science behind GMO foods...and not corporate wealth. Which the rest of us (99%) know is the only reason GMO foods exist.

It's disgusting when they pretend it is to help Third World countries.

[bvar22]

50. None of them have shown up in this thread yet.

I wonder why?
They ALL seem to jump in early and consistently try to hijack anything about GMO.
Curious.



In 2006, my wife & I moved to a hilltop in the woods next to a big National Forest.
We grow a great deal of our own food,
keep chickens, and keep Honey Bees.
Naturally, ALL GMO crops are banned forever from this little hill,
along with any non-naturally occurring herbicides, non-naturally occurring pesticides or fertilizers.

[Rex]

53. Yeah this thread is getting bookmarked. We have a family garden out back that feeds

fruits/veg to the entire fam/relatives surrounding it. Have a huge amount of onions, just harvested. I remember the recent swarming of you over a certain thread...gee where are all those empirical soothsayers now?

At one time growing your own food was normal. Fuck if I let the megalo-corporations tell me they have my best interest at heart. Funny, the insurance industry Nixon came up with didn't have my best interest at heart. Cutting taxes was never in my best interest. Dropping all transparency in government and corporate realms just...hmmm...dunno, just can't seem to get along with the idea.

And the small group that cries about it all the time, I welcome them to eat all the GMOs they want too. I won't try and stop them.

[ND-Dem]

75. yeah, it's like they have a special computer program that alerts them to any negative

post.

I wonder where they are?

[sabrina 1]

118. We did something similar. Bought a small farm where no GMOs are allowed and we are surrounded

by much larger farms who feel the same way.

Anyone who wants to eat their GMOs, fine with me. I don't get why they are so intent in FORCING the rest of us to eat what we don't want to eat.

[bvar22]

191. Congrats.

Starkraven & myself have never regretted a single day.

[sabrina 1]

224. Thank you, we feel the same way.

[ND-Dem]

74. +1,000,000

[Major Nikon]

54. I wonder if the organic shills would be willing to drink composted cow shit tea

Just because it's safe enough to do doesn't mean anyone would want to do it.

[Fumesucker]

56. Where has someone claimed it is safe to drink composted manure tea?

[Major Nikon]

57. So it's safe to pour on your food, but not to drink?

[Fumesucker]

58. Where has someone claimed it is safe to drink composted manure tea?

This man claimed it is safe to drink herbicide...

Where has someone made a similar claim about composted manure tea?

[Major Nikon]

61. I hear quite often that composting shit kills all the pathogens

So why not?

And people claim things are safe to drink all the time. It's a commonly used phrase. Translating that to people wanting to drink whatever it is seems just a bit silly.

[ND-Dem]

76. when people claim things are safe to drink, they usually mean they're safe to drink. it's

not a 'commonly used phrase' to claim things are safe to drink that aren't safe.

[Rex]

78. That was almost painful to watch.

But hey, someone was eventually going to come along and try.

[Major Nikon]

80. It's not?

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/2/24/dorm-crew-switches-product/
http://www.bradley-systems.com/news-list/news-safe-to-drink
http://besafenow.com/safenow-products/
http://brandjournalists.com/franchise-reviews/5-reasons-we-like-the-chem-dry-franchise/
http://www.autonews.com/article/20141124/OEM06/311249952/toyota:-fuel-cell-water-safe-to-drink-...-but-dont-try-it

Household vinegar is safe enough to drink, but I ain't gonna be taking a fuggin swig of it. The fact that I won't doesn't mean it isn't safe enough to drink and suggesting otherwise is pretty stupid.

[Rex]

83. So you will drink household vinegar! Excellent! Bottom's up man!

It is not a shock that someone getting caught in a lie, doesn't even make you blink.

[Major Nikon]

86. Did you wave at the point when it sailed over your head?

[Rex]

88. Sorry I already used that one, think up your own material!

Sheesh, not my fault you cannot rationalize why a man would lie on tv then pretend he did not.

[Major Nikon]

90. Seems a bit disingenuous to claim someone is lying when you can't manage to explain the lie

But as is par for the course you seem to be more interested in creating rhetoric I'm sure you must imagine is funny rather than offering anything substantive.

[ND-Dem]

95. oh the irony

[BeanMusical]

203. Lol, you can say that again.

[cheapdate]

228. Perhaps I can manage to explain the lie, since it apparently sailed right over your head.

Moore says, "You can drink a whole quart of it and it won't hurt you."

That's a lie. A willful and deliberate falsehood. Meant to deceive.

From Toxicology Review (Glyphosphate Poisoning. Bradberry, Proudfoot AT, Vale JA. 2004):

"Ingestion of >85 mL of the concentrated formulation is likely to cause significant toxicity in adults. Gastrointestinal corrosive effects, with mouth, throat and epigastric pain and dysphagia are common. Renal and hepatic impairment are also frequent and usually reflect reduced organ perfusion. Respiratory distress, impaired consciousness, pulmonary oedema, infiltration on chest x-ray, shock, arrythmias, renal failure requiring haemodialysis, metabolic acidosis and hyperkalaemia may supervene in severe cases. Bradycardia and ventricular arrhythmias are often present pre-terminally."

85 ml is one-tenth of a quart. Moore's claim that you can drink ten times that amount "and it won't hurt you" was a bald-faced lie. It damn sure WILL hurt you, if it doesn't kill you. And Moore knows it. And he was pissed that he was called on it.

Hope that clears it up!

[Major Nikon]

229. Ummm, no you explained nothing other than your own misrepresentation

...and it just ain't that hard to point it out, even from the cherry picking you did from your unlinked source.

Ingestion of >85 mL of the concentrated formulation is likely to cause significant toxicity in adults.

85ml of 41% concentrated formulation makes over 4 gallons of useable Roundup which is 16 times more than what Dr Moore specified.

Hope that clears it up!

[cheapdate]

230. You have an inventive mind, which is good for writing fiction, not so much for matters of fact.

The only thing Moore specified in that video was "You can drink a whole quart of it and it won't hurt you"

Moore : "You can drink a whole quart of it and it won't hurt you"

Host: "Ah, you want to drink some? We have some here."

Moore: "I'd be happy to, actually...but...but...not...not really."

Host: "Not really?"

Moore: "I know it wouldn't hurt me."

Host: "If you say so, I have some glyphosphate"

Moore: "No, no, I'm not stupid."

Host: "Ah, okay, so, you..you.."

Moore: "No, no...but I know..."

Host: "But it's not dangerous, right?"

Moore: "No, but, I know that...people try to commit suicide with it and fail, fairly regularly."

Do you know what the word "specify" means? It means to state a requirement clearly and precisely. Where exactly do you imagine that Moore specified the particular dilution that you refer to? Did he communicate it to you telepathically?

P.S. My "unlinked source" was cited by Journal, Title, Author, and Date.

Cheers!

[Major Nikon]

231. Ah so he actually meant "concentrated formulation" even though that's not what he specified

I guess your telepathy works better than mine because it would be pretty fucking stupid for him to imply anything other than the product as it is intended to be used.

At any rate this is approaching a level of silliness I'm not willing to entertain any longer. The only reason I replied in the first place was because I find it quite funny when someone thinks they have a "gotcha" moment and they have no idea what they just googled.

Cheers!

[cheapdate]

232. Yes, your constant shifting, evasion, and bluster bores me as well.

I suppose then you would have it that Moore was perfectly willing to drink Roundup, only he meant at the typical dilution at which it's normally applied?

Now that's "fucking stupid."

Moore: "You can drink a whole quart of it and it won't hurt you"

Host: "Ah, you want to drink some? We have some here."

Moore: "I'd be happy to, actually...but...but...not...not really."

Host: "Not really?"

Moore: "I know it wouldn't hurt me."

Host: "If you say so, I have some glyphosphate"

Moore: "No, no, I'm not stupid."

Moore was no way, no how, going to drink Roundup at any dilution. Because it's poisonous. Like you, he made a stupid bluff. But unlike you, he backed off because he has some actual understanding of toxicology.

[ND-Dem]

94. But will he drink Round-Up, since he claims it's safe as vinegar? Administer the

Round-Up challenge!

[ND-Dem]

92. Lots of people drink vinegar and after I claimed it was safe to drink I wouldn't have any

hesitation about drinking it, even though it doesn't taste particularly good straight.

Nobody's buying what you're selling.

[Major Nikon]

97. So anyone who claims vinegar is safe to drink...

is obligated to drink it or they are lying.

Brilliant!

[ND-Dem]

100. No one who claimed vinegar was safe to drink would say "Do you think I'm an idiot?"

after being invited to drink some.

The implication is pretty clear: only an idiot would drink Round-up.

[Major Nikon]

101. Anyone who would volunteer to drink vinegar to prove a point is an idiot

Suggesting otherwise speaks for itself.

[ND-Dem]

102. Except people put vinegar on their food and also drink it (watered down) in home remedies.

I guess they're all idiots.

Do you know any people who put Round-Up and oil on their salads and drink dilute Round-up for blood sugar control or as a time-tested spring tonic? Hmmm?

Cmon, show me your data about the healthful effects of Round-UP.

The researchers suggest that vinegar may turn on certain genes involved in breaking down fats.

While apple cider vinegar probably won’t make you skinny, it does appear to help with diabetes and blood sugar control.

That blob is known as “the mother,” and it’s full of probiotics and other beneficial bacteria. “This kind of vinegar can support immune function and, for some people, even help with constipation,” Davis says.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar-and-health

[Major Nikon]

107. Thanks for the strawman nonsense

It just goes to show you're rather argue with what you imagine someone said rather than what they actually said. I find the practice petty and childish, but it does provide one with all the information they need to know about those who feel otherwise.

As far as the healthful effects of roundup goes, I reckon that's just not too difficult. If you can imagine the world without roundup (and I'm not sure you could), it would certainly be one where produce is far more expensive and that much farther out of reach of those who can least afford it. It also means alternate pesticides which actually are quite toxic.

[ND-Dem]

108. lol. blowing smoke doesn't fool anyone.

[Major Nikon]

110. You stole my line!

[Fumesucker]

123. I've had a swig of vinegar more than once

I have a neighbor who drinks a shot glass worth of vinegar every day and I would be happy to drink that much right in front of you.

And unlike the gentleman in the OP I'm not being vastly overpaid to promote the safety of vinegar.

The fact of the matter is his mouth wrote a check his mouth immediately after refused to cash.

[Major Nikon]

141. I could care less if you eat road apples

I'm not going to take a swig of vinegar because I have zero desire to do so. That doesn't mean I'm "lying" if I say it's safe enough to drink. That doesn't mean I'm a "jerk" if I refuse to drink it. That doesn't mean I'm an "idiot" if I refuse to drink it.

It doesn't even mean vinegar is safer to drink than Roundup.

Vinegar:
Acute oral toxicity
rat LD50: 3,530 mg/kg
http://www.carolina.com/pdf/msds/VINEGAR.pdf


Roundup Pro:
Acute oral toxicity
rat LD50: 5,180 mg/kg
http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp07A005.pdf

And unlike the gentleman in the OP I'm not being vastly overpaid to promote the safety of vinegar.

I have it on good authority that Dr Patrick Moore drowns kittens in his bathtub. That doesn't mean he's lying.

The fact of the matter is his mouth wrote a check his mouth immediately after refused to cash.

Had he said he wanted to drink Roundup or anyone should drink Roundup you might have something. That's not what he said so it's quite interesting what passes for a fact, no?

[Fumesucker]

186. I would think he would be more than happy to demonstrate the absolute safety of Roundup

After all, that's what he was being interviewed about.

Again, I'd be happy to demonstrate that vinegar is not toxic in reasonable quantities and I'm not being paid to do interviews touting the safety of vinegar.

"It's quite safe but I won't drink it because I'm not an idiot.".

Why would he be an idiot for drinking it if it's safe?

[Major Nikon]

194. Umm, because it was never meant to drink maybe?

I'm sure it's safe to drink dishwater. That doesn't mean I need to drink it to prove as much. If someone else wants to drink up, more power to them.

[BeanMusical]

198. "I could care less if you eat road apples"

I could care less:

This is what stupid people say when they, in fact, mean, "I couldn't care less." The intent of the phrase is to express the fact that the level of caring the user has is nil. However when taken literally, the phrase dictates that there is at least some level of caring and it is possible to care less. Some people have said that the phrase is used sarcastically and that people who use it know that the meaning is opposite to the literal interpretation. However it is far more likely that people who say, "I could care less," and mean the opposite are just stupid.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I+could+care+less

Ex: I couldn't care less about someone's opinion on scientific topics when they can't even use proper grammar.

[Major Nikon]

200. Urbandictionary. Edited by children.

That and grammar flamers who can't even manage to get their shit all in one sock are two things I could care less about also.

Just sayin'

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/03/18/why_i_could_care_less_is_not_as_irrational_or_ungrammatical_as_you_might.html

[BeanMusical]

201. I picked Urbandictionary on purpose.

But it doesn't change the fact that saying "I could care less" is nonsensical.

The expression I could not care less originally meant 'it would be impossible for me to care less than I do because I do not care at all'. It was originally a British saying and came to the US in the 1950s. It is senseless to transform it into the now-common I could care less. If you could care less, that means you care at least a little. The original is quite sarcastic and the other form is clearly nonsense.

So I couldn't care less about what you are caring at least a little.

Just sayin'.

[Major Nikon]

204. Well bless your heart

Gotta love those who reference childish gibberish sites while going around making magnificent faceplants while trying to correct grammar. You seem to be failing at this grammar Nazi thing and may wish to take up a new hobby. At any rate, thank you for repeating your obviously non-researched opinion I could care less about and will continue to summarily ignore. Redundancy is always a virtue for grammar Nazis. Speaking of which, here's a repeat of the link you didn't bother to read last time. Feel free to author another redundant reply, but I ain't gonna be reading it because I could care even less now.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/03/18/why_i_could_care_less_is_not_as_irrational_or_ungrammatical_as_you_might.html

[BeanMusical]

223. Lol!

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn about your grammar. But it was funny to see you split hair and try to "win" at all cost such a futile argument the same way you are obsessively defending your beloved Roundup.

And bless your hearth a million times.

[immoderate]

202. I like vinegar. It's the secret ingredient in all great cooking, y'know.

Roundup? Not so much.

--imm

[Major Nikon]

205. And yet Roundup is still less toxic

So going by many of the replies here, you should be using it because evidently that's the only thing that matters.

[immoderate]

206. Vinegar also lacks the "hazard" warnings and disposal precautions that are on the Roundup label.

Citing that there may be toxic levels of most anything doesn't make them equivalent. Different substances have different properties. And analogies are odious.

--imm

[Major Nikon]

209. Probably because vinegar isn't registered with the EPA as pesticide

Even though it can be used for that. As far as "hazard" warnings on Roundup go, it carries the "caution" warning which is the least hazardous of the three available. For reference, compare this with copper sulfate which caries the strongest warning "Danger" and is approved for use under the National Organic Program.

Citing that there may be toxic levels of most anything doesn't make them equivalent. Different substances have different properties.

Citing labels used on products intended for entirely different purposes doesn't make one more or less toxic than the other. Citing acute oral toxicity rat LD50 levels does provide useful information:

Vinegar:
Acute oral toxicity
rat LD50: 3,530 mg/kg
http://www.carolina.com/pdf/msds/VINEGAR.pdf

Roundup Pro:
Acute oral toxicity
rat LD50: 5,180 mg/kg
http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp07A005.pdf

analogies are odious

Perhaps, but not so much when the subject is so emotionally charged that rational discussion is unlikely.

[immoderate]

211. Relative ACUTE oral toxicity is not really the issue with glyphosate.

But that's where you want to deflect it. It's a tu quoque. Let's suppose you switch to lemon juice. What's the acute oral toxicity of that? And how does it illuminate the argument? It's not a suspected carcinogen, AFAIK.

--imm

[Major Nikon]

212. How about coffee then?

The same organization that listed glyphosate as a carcinogen also lists coffee, shift work, and frying with hot oil in the same Group 2 designation. So if you want to make it about cancer, be my guest. Virtually every regulatory organization in the world also contradicts their conclusion about glyphosate, along with virtually all the credible studies done in the last 30 years. So if you'd care to cite actual credible studies on the subject. I'm fine with having that conversation. It would be a welcome relief from those who only seem capable of hyperbole. Good luck with that though. Even the IARC said there was "limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans" and even at that only applied to agricultural workers.

It's a tu quoque

Not sure how you get there from here. I'm pointing out that several substances are more toxic than glyphosate as a reference for exactly how toxic glyphosate is, which is not much.

[immoderate]

218. And I'm pointing out the irrelevance of what you're pointing out.

--imm

[Major Nikon]

219. So why reply at all?

But I guess it wasn't irrelevant then.



Thanks for the illuminating drive by.

[immoderate]

220. Non sequitur much?

If glyphosate, therefore vinegar?

--imm

[Major Nikon]

221. Please

You replied to me, not the other way around. If you didn't think it was relevant, you didn't need to reply. Instead you did and now want to claim irrelevance and even then you had to throw just one more baseless allegation out there. Fair enough though. You had me fooled into thinking you have something of substance to offer. It won't happen again.

Cheers!

[immoderate]

222. Well I won't join you for a drink of Roundup.

--imm

[ND-Dem]

207. It was Dr. Moore who said Round-Up was safe, and then said "I'm not an idiot" when invited

to drink some. The interviewer did not call Moore an idiot. Moore also said "I'm not stupid" when invited to drink some Round-up after claiming it was safe to drink. The interviewer didn't say Moore was stupid.

But Dr. Moore who called the interviewer a "jerk".

The only person who called anyone names, in fact, was Mr. Moore.

Did you even watch the interview?

[Major Nikon]

210. "The only person who called anyone names, in fact, was Mr. Moore"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post62

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post69

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post12

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post119

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post23

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post25

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post63

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post39

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post41

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post52

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post55

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post148

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026414089#post188

[ND-Dem]

213. in the recorded interview. i'm not sure why you would use pejoratives from the *interview*

if your intent was to criticize posters at DU.

and I think you understood my meaning perfectly well.

[Major Nikon]

214. You're absolutely right. I should have used the other word for female prostitute

You know, like you did.

[ND-Dem]

215. maybe for male prostitute, doncha think? but i think it's the same word....who would know,

I wonder?

[Major Nikon]

217. No, I don't think so

[Rex]

77. Then why appear to be lying on camera in front of a reporter?

Exactly.

[Major Nikon]

81. Where's the lie?

Exactly?



Good luck providing a coherent answer.

[Rex]

82. Says it is safe to drink, then when challenged to do so he says he is no fool.

I understand if it went over your head.

[Major Nikon]

84. So...

If I say household vinegar is safe enough to drink (it is), but then refuse to drink it, that means it MUST NOT be safe enough to drink.

Brilliant!

[Rex]

85. Yes you shouldn't lie to someone while the camera is rolling, you learned something!

[Major Nikon]

87. You have yet to explain where the lie is

And as I suspected, won't. So I didn't really learn anything.

[Rex]

89. No I clearly explained it to you and you pretend not to understand.

No big deal, you totally failed in your attempt. So it doesn't really matter anyway.

[Major Nikon]

93. Complete nonsense

Claiming something is safe to drink and then refusing to drink it isn't a lie. If you want to continue to pretend otherwise, be my guest. It certainly explains a lot.

[ND-Dem]

103. is what you spout, repeatedly, every time this topic comes up. One wonders at your devotion

and perfect timing.

[Major Nikon]

111. Likewise

[U4ikLefty]

112. That was an awesome exchange!!!

It's like they doubled down on the stupidity...and kept going.

[NuclearDem]

91. Where are all these Monsanto shills advocating drinking herbicide?

This has got to be one of the stupidest fucking subthreads on DU, right up there with the moon bombing nonsense.

[ND-Dem]

98. It's a great thread. The Monsanto shill revealed what an absolute tool he is, like all the

Monsanto shills.

[NuclearDem]

104. Thank you for making my point.

[ND-Dem]

105. you didn't have a point.

[NuclearDem]

106. Oh I did. You just apparently didn't get it.

[ND-Dem]

109. Please, take the Round-Up Challenge.

[NuclearDem]

115. Why should I exactly?

Herbicides are not meant for humans to drink. They're meant to kill weeds.

Why this seems to confuse you I have no idea.

[Major Nikon]

142. Because if you don't you are LYING!

And you're an IDIOT.

And you are a JERK.

They proved it. It's all right there, fully explained. Honest.

It's it great how ad hominem combined with strawman bullshit works? You can use it to win any argument. All you need is a cadre of folks to agree with you who share your ideology and are fully willing to look past such fallacies or just don't understand them for what they are and you can also rely on argumentum ad populum.

[Major Nikon]

114. Arguably stupider

The working assumption is that because something is less toxic that means it's better to consume, which going by that "logic" means it's better to put sand on your food than salt.

[NuclearDem]

116. "Think hammers are so great? Why don't you drop one on your foot!"

[Major Nikon]

117. Substitute teh scary roundup for something else...

Sand is perfectly safe to eat

I have some sand, do you want to sprinkle some on your sandwich?

No, I'm not an idiot.

By the "logic" demonstrated in this thread, that would make someone who refuses to eat sand an idiot, a liar, and a jerk and anyone who agreed would get a pat on the back for their brilliance.

[sabrina 1]

63. It's great to see a real reporter at work isn't it? We are so starved for actual news here we

get excited when we see what so many other countries take for granted.

I was wondering too where all the GMO experts are today.

The guy is sleaze, like all those who try to force people to eat products without knowing what they are eating.

[Rex]

65. I've given up on it here on DU and the M$M.

LBN is still great, but trying to talk about anything of the sort in GD is almost impossible now. YES SO wonderful to see a country that takes what is said seriously and doesn't put McCorporate or MCGovernment spin on it!

Refreshing.

[Pooka Fey]

182. +1

[ND-Dem]

73. i was thinking we should get some of the most tenacious monsanto shills here to take the

"Round-Up Challenge".

[Rex]

79. Oh that is good! Stealing it!

Fuck mountain dew! This drink will make your hair fall out! Kewl to the max!

[calimary]

38. Not willing to put his Monsanto where his mouth is.

[Cha]

122. Yeah, let them drink Roundup and stand in fields that are sprayed day after day like the hospitals

and schools where they got a Fed Judge to make Invalid.. The Buffer Zone that The People Voted in, on Kauai.



https://www.facebook.com/Save.Hawai.from.Monsanto

[Dont call me Shirley]

39. You are the complete jerk, Patrick.

[robbob]

40. This article links wheat allergies to round up used before harvest:

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/real-reason-for-toxic-wheat-its-not-gluten/

Whether or not it is true is a matter of debate; snopes seems to feel some of the claims in the article are exaggerated:

http://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/roundupwheat.asp

...but I know I sure don't want to be eating food sprayed with this poison at ANY point in it's production.

Buy organic!

[Mnpaul]

41. Another idiot from the Heartland Institute

It doesn't rise to the stupid level of James Taylor's(not that one) global warming nonsense but I give it a five. Taylor doubles and triples down when exposed a joke in the comments of his articles. He actually responds to comments but probably shouldn't. I remember his "study of scientists in Canada show that scientists don't believe global warming is man made". Posters quickly pointed out that his scientists were actually geologists working on the Alberta Tar sands. To add insult to injury, the authors of the study told Taylor to cease and desist in his distortion of their study.

[think]

44. Politically speaking /nt

[xocet]

48. Priceless! Thanks for posting that. n/t

[Zorra]

51. From Greenpeace: Patrick Moore background information

Patrick Moore, a paid spokesman for the nuclear industry, the logging industry, and genetic engineering industry, frequently cites a long-ago affiliation with Greenpeace to gain legitimacy in the media. Media outlets often either state or imply that Mr. Moore still represents Greenpeace, or fail to mention that he is a paid lobbyist and not an independent source. This page contains information about how to accurately describe Mr. Moore and to judge his credibility.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/history/Patrick-Moore-background-information/

[Archae]

52. This lobbyist does sound rather stupid.

That having been said, I will say the times I helped my Mom spray Roundup on her backyard brickwork, to get rid of weeds, we treated the spray like any other poison.

In other words, we were very careful, and if any got on either of us, we washed it off quickly.

My Mom still uses too much poisons around her house, including malathion.(sp?)

But we both take a lot of care and caution when doing so.

Mom gave me a bottle of bug spray for my own place to use later this year, I will use it outside on ants, mostly.
It has "Bifenthrin" and "Zeta-Cybermethrin" in it.

Ortho makes it.

I won't use this stuff inside where my cats are.

[ND-Dem]

99. Tell your mom she can drink that damn Roundup if she wants. It's safe as vinegar.

[Major Nikon]

113. Safer

Vinegar:
Acute oral toxicity
rat LD50: 3,530 mg/kg
http://www.carolina.com/pdf/msds/VINEGAR.pdf


Roundup Pro:
Acute oral toxicity
rat LD50: 5,180 mg/kg
http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp07A005.pdf

[ND-Dem]

153. Take the Round-Up Challenge!!!!!

[Major Nikon]

154. Take the Bovine Excrement Challenge!!!!

Oh wait, you already did!

Nevermind.

[ND-Dem]

156. does that mean you're not gonna drink the round-up? too bad. and like the other guy,

you finish by calling names.

typical of the animal.

[Major Nikon]

158. Neither I nor he said it was a good idea

So all you really have is empty rhetoric. You know, kinda like when you falsely accuse someone of "calling names" and then call them an animal, except worse.

[marym625]

55. Yeah, the interviewer is a complete jerk.

In corporate world!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

60. must watch later

Can't get it to load right now.

[ND-Dem]

62. OMG. He refuses to drink the glycophosphate, saying "I'm not a complete idiot," while

insisting it's safe to drink it (he just doesn't want to because he's not an idiot..?)

Then cuts the interview short telling the interviewer "You're a complete jerk" (because the interviewer took him up on his claim that drinking glycophosphate was totally safe, apparently).

Monsanto needs some better shills-for-hire. This guy is a complete jerk.

[Rex]

68. Yet the TPP will be monitored and run by honorable men and women.

I wonder what Dr. I'm Not An Idiot's DU username is?

[ND-Dem]

96. I have my eye on three posters....

[closeupready]

149. Yup. The same three I've noted, as well.

[Major Nikon]

165. That kinda works both ways don't you think?

The interviewee makes a relevant point about how people have tried to commit suicide by drinking glyphosate and failed, and the interviewer immediately derails any intelligent conversation by repeatedly insisting the interviewee drink glyphosate.

Sound familiar?

[ND-Dem]

166. not so much...

Hum Exp Toxicol. 1991 Mar;10(2):103-7.

Intentional self-poisoning with glyphosate-containing herbicides.

Menkes DB1, Temple WA, Edwards IR.
Abstract

Four cases of self-poisoning with 'Roundup' herbicide are described, one of them fatal. One of the survivors had a protracted hospital stay and considerable clinical and laboratory detail is presented. Serious self-poisoning is associated with massive gastrointestinal fluid loss and renal failure. The management of such cases and the role of surfactant toxicity are discussed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1675099


Hum Exp Toxicol. 1999 Dec;18(12) 35-7.

Rapid lethal intoxication caused by the herbicide glyphosate-trimesium (Touchdown).

Sorensen FW1, Gregersen M.



Author information



Abstract

Two cases of rapid lethal intoxication with the herbicide glyphosate-trimesium (Touchdown) are presented. A 6-year-old boy who accidentally ingested a mouthful of glyphosate-trimesium died within minutes. The same happened to a 34-year-old woman who intentionally ingested approximately 150 ml of glyphosate-trimesium. The post-mortem examination revealed gastric content and oedema of the mucus membranes of the airways, erosion of the mucus membranes of the gastrointestinal tract, pulmonary oedema, cerebral oedema, and dilated right atrium and ventricle of the heart. The speed of which death occurs is much more rapid than lethal intoxications with the herbicide glyphosate (isoprophylamine), also known as 'Roundup'. It is suggested that the lethal mechanism between the two herbicides may be different. The component, trimethylsulfonium, of the glyphosate-trimesium may facilitate the absorption after oral ingestion. This difference can be crucial in the treatment of human intoxication. We propose that containers with glyphosate-trimesium must be labelled because of the apparent effect of lethal intoxication.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10627661

[Major Nikon]

171. Touchdown is far more toxic than Roundup

Somewhat more relevant is the hundred or so people who didn't die after drinking glyphosate, not that any of it makes the least bit of sense out of context. Glyphosate was never intended to be drank which is why there are warning labels on the product to that effect, which probably drives people to try to commit suicide with it in the first place.

Clinical presentations and prognostic factors of a glyphosate-surfactant herbicide intoxication: a review of 131 cases

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

Suicide attempts with agricultural chemicals are common in southern Taiwan. Among them, glyphosate-surfactant herbicide (GlySH) intoxication has been encountered with increasing frequency. Although a number of reports have described the clinical course and outcomes following ingestion, predictors of serious complications and mortality have not been elucidated. The purpose of this study was to define predictors of serious complications and probable mortality.
METHODS:

This was a retrospective study of 131 GlySH-intoxicated patients treated at the National Cheng Kung University Hospital from 1988 to 1995. Medical charts were reviewed and clinical and laboratory variables were abstracted, looking for predictors of mortality.
RESULTS:

The most common symptoms included sore throat (79.5%), and nausea with or without vomiting (73.8%). The most common laboratory findings were leukocytosis (68.0%), low serum bicarbonate (48.1%), and acidosis (35.8%). Overall, 11 of 131 patients (8.4%) died; the mean +/- SEM time to death was 2.8 +/- 0.8 days after presentation. When comparing the clinical and laboratory characteristics among the survivor and fatality groups, significant differences were identified. Respiratory distress, pulmonary edema, respiratory distress necessitating intubation, shock (systolic blood pressure less than 90 mm Hg), altered consciousness, abnormal chest x-ray, renal failure necessitating hemodialysis, larger amount of ingestion (>200 mL), and hyperkalemia were predictors highly associated with poor outcomes and mortality. Using multiple logistic regression, three predictors were identified, which may predict mortality in severely intoxicated patients.

[ND-Dem]

173. ...

Hum Exp Toxicol. 1991 Mar;10(2):103-7.

Intentional self-poisoning with glyphosate-containing herbicides.

Menkes DB1, Temple WA, Edwards IR.
Abstract

Four cases of self-poisoning with 'Roundup' herbicide are described, one of them fatal. One of the survivors had a protracted hospital stay and considerable clinical and laboratory detail is presented. Serious self-poisoning is associated with massive gastrointestinal fluid loss and renal failure. The management of such cases and the role of surfactant toxicity are discussed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1675099

[Major Nikon]

174. Is there a point somewhere in this?

I've already presented you a study in which 11 (out of 131) died after drinking glyphosate so now you present a study with a far lower sample rate as if this is somehow relevant.

People also die from drinking vinegar and some don't. The same can be said for saltwater and hundreds of other common substances.

The only thing that's really relevant is whether glyphosate is safe in produce measured in parts per million, yet strangely rather than have that conversation people would rather point to ingestion of massive amounts of it which by all accounts is idiocy.

[Cha]

121. Yeah, "I may be an "idiot" enough to say "I'd drink it".. but, not Enough to actually Drink it! ROFL

[Orrex]

124. What larger conclusions are people drawing from this guy's stupid misstatement?

And why?


Is clean water safe to drink over the course of your lifetime? Then why don't you drink 13,000 gallons of it right now?

[Scuba]

125. The larger point is that this so-called "expert" is a shill for Monsanto who uses his past ...

... association with Greenpeace to defend the poisoning of our planet, but won't back up his rhetoric when challenged.

But then you already knew that.

[Orrex]

135. So this guy's a poor spokesman. What do we conclude from this, and why?

Spokespersons for the "organic" industry make bullshit claims all the time, Deepak Chopra, Dr. Oz and Andrew Weil chief among them. Do you call them out for dishonestly pushing an agenda? Is their deceit more palatable because it supports your preconceptions?

[Scuba]

139. I honestly don't know who Deepak Chopra, Dr. Oz and Andrew Weil are. What's your point?

Mine is that Monsanto hired this shill to go out and claim that their product is safe, but when challenged to back up his own claim, he refused to do so.

[Orrex]

140. Chopra, Oz & Weil are the three stooges of the bullshit "supplement" industry

And they're major proponents of (and profit HUGELY from) the organic industry as well.


You're also setting a ridiculous standard by demanding that a thing is only safe if it's safe in quantities not intended for consumption. That's why I made my initial point about the 13,000 gallons of water, which breaks down to about 64 ounces per day for 70 years.

By the all-or-nothing reasoning with which you condemn this foolish Monsanto spokesman, it should be safe to drink all 13,000 gallons of water in one sitting.

[Scuba]

157. What the fuck does that have to do with Monsanto's Roundup, or their shill saying it was safe?

[Orrex]

163. We both agree that he was a dumbass for saying that. Why do you keep hammering that point?

The fact that a spokesman is unwilling to deliberately ingest a large quantity of a substance doesn't really tell us much about the safety of a small quantity of that substance.

Some people take ibuprophen when they have a headache, because it's very safe in appropriate doses. Would those people drink a glass full of ibuprohen? Probably not. What can we therefore conclude about the safety of a minimal quantity of ibuprophen? Almost nothing.

The same applies here, and it also applies to the clean water in my first example. Water is refreshing and lovely and all that good stuff when you ingest it in appropriate quantities. According to your specific criticism of the dumbass Monsanto spokesman, water must be unsafe unless it's safe to consume in enormous quantities.

That's what the fuck it has to do with Monsanto's Roundup.

[Scuba]

170. What it tells us is that Monsanto is paying people to lie about the safety of Roundup.

[Orrex]

185. Can you document that he lied and that he was paid to lie?

Let the person who's never misspoken in an official capacity cast the first stone.

Further, spokespersons for the "organic" and "supplement" industries make wild claims all the time, more or less with impunity. The three stooges I named earlier (Weil, Chopra & Oz) have built multi-million dollar empires on the practice, in fact. What this tells us is that the noble industries of "organic" products and dietary "supplements" pay people to lie about the efficacy and safety of such products, and pay them very handsomely. Do you object to these as well? Have you done so? I'd be interested to read those objections.


I'm not implying that two wrongs make a right, either; I'm stating that hypocrisy draws its paychecks from many competing sources, yet DU sees fit to condemn one species of hypocrite much more strongly than another.

[Major Nikon]

150. How about Gilles-Éric Séralini? Ever hear of him?

He's the guy who was behind the now well discredited glyphosate rat study which people here still frequently channel. He's also behind several other parroted "studies" that are just as much junk science.

Séralini gets his funding from Auchan which is basically an international Wal-Mart, except many of their products are advertised as "GM-Free". He also received funding from Carrefour which is another hypermarket chain. They launched a huge "GM-Free" ad campaign 5 days after Séralini's rat study was released. He also gets funding from numerous anti-GMO groups.
http://alerte-environnement.fr/2012/11/12/etude-anti-ogm-de-saralini-les-petits-soldats-de-la-fondation-pour-le-progres-de-lhomme/

Now that you know, I expect you'll be pointing out that Séralini is a paid shill the next time someone channels him, right?

[Scuba]

159. What the fuck does that have to do with Monsanto's Roundup, or their shill saying it was safe?

[Major Nikon]

160. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6416773

I guess a shill that tells lies about Roundup is beside the "larger point", eh?

[Scuba]

161. No, that is the point, your distractions notwithstanding.

[Major Nikon]

162. Please explain exactly what the point is

Because all I've really seen are examples of silly rhetorical gibberish and irrational fear about substances that might kill you if taken in massive quantities, yet can only be measured in food in miniscule quantities.

Please tell me there's something more relevant here.

[Scuba]

169. The point is Monsanto is paying shills to lie about the safety of Roundup.

But already knew that.

[Major Nikon]

172. So where's the lie?

I keep asking that and all I get are mumbling replies telling me there it is.

So let's pretend that it is a lie and people haven't survived drinking glyphosate even though they have. Do you really think Monsanto is paying people to convince others that Roundup is safe to drink? If that really is the "larger point", I'd have to say it makes less sense than everything else I've seen in this thread.

[Scuba]

175. Really? You can't find the lie? You know what?

I'll bet Dr. Moore and his masters can't find the lie either.

[Major Nikon]

178. The proof of what he said just isn't that hard to find

Some people do drink glyphosate and for the vast majority it doesn't kill them. The claim that it won't hurt you might be a bit harder to prove, but even if it was wrong, pointing it out has pretty much shit to do with any substantive conversation. Nobody is advocating for people to drink glyphosate.

So instead of talking about more salient points such as whether glyphosate is "dangerous" to people in normal circumstances, they would rather talk about a gotcha moment that doesn't amount to a bucket of warm spit. Very telling that.

[Scuba]

181. He said he would drink some. Then he refused to do so. Ergo, a lie.

[Major Nikon]

183. Sweet Jebus, THAT'S the lie?

You might want to watch the video, he was obviously being sarcastic in the face of a completely ridiculous suggestion.

Interviewer: You want to drink some? We have some here.
Moore: I'd be happy to actually... Not, not really, but...

Again, is this really the "larger point" rather than any substantive conversation on whether Roundup is actually "dangerous" or not? Please tell me it's not.

[Renew Deal]

128. That's classic

[djean111]

129. Wow! The straw men and deflectionistas try to strike again! And fail.

This is just about Round-up. Not vinegar, not water, just Round-up. And no one at all said it was okay to drink organic waste fertilizer. The claim here is that it is okay to drink Round-up.
And I bet all the folks flinging those straw men around would not drink the Round-up, either.

[NuclearDem]

130. Why would someone drink Roundup?

It's an herbicide, not a Pepsi. No one's advocating drinking the stuff.

But you knew that.

[djean111]

131. Did you watch the clip? The guy being interviewed says it is safe to drink, and then refuses to

drink it, because he says he is not stupid. He just thinks the rest of us are stupid.

[NuclearDem]

132. Still not advocating drinking it.

Discussing the level of Roundup's toxicity to humans from accidental ingestion is not the same as suggesting you drink Roundup with your morning toast.

[djean111]

133. We were discussing a man saying Round-up is safe to drink and then refusing to drink it, because

he says he is not stupid. He says that people drink it to commit suicide, and it does not kill them, so it is okay to drink.
We are discussing the clip. Just think what might happen if someone took him at his word, and stopped being super careful with Round-up. That is the issue.

[NuclearDem]

136. You'd have to be stupid to actively drink herbicides.

Because they're not meant for human consumption.

That doesn't mean if you somehow accidentally ingested the stuff that it would be too significantly toxic.

Hammers typically won't hurt you too badly if you drop one on your foot, but that doesn't mean one should use a hammer like that.

[djean111]

137. Oh, I agree. And just as stupid to go on camera and say you would drink Round-up because it is

harmless to humans, and then refuse to drink it.

[NuclearDem]

138. No argument from me on that.

Anyone who says they'd drink Roundup is an idiot of galactic proportions.

[bvar22]

192. Monsanto said the exact same thing about Agent Orange.

The cancers didn't show up for 10 - 20 years later.

[NuclearDem]

195. Right, because Agent Orange and glyphosate are the same thing.

[BeanMusical]

197. They said that DDT was innocuous too.

[Major Nikon]

199. Agent Orange was manufactured by government supplied specifications

Monsanto sent congress a memo on 1952 warning them that their recipe would create carcinogenic dioxin. The military investigated and summarily dismissed their concerns. This was well before Monsanto supplied any of it to the US.

So actually Monsanto said the exact opposite thing.

https://makinghistoryatmacquarie.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/shattering-a-myth-agent-orange-and-australian-vietnam-veterans/

[Major Nikon]

144. Pro-tip:

It's a good idea to understand what a straw man fallacy means before you allege one. Falsely alleging a strawman fallacy kinda is a strawman fallacy. Just sayin'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Presenting an analogy is not strawman, BTW.

The claim here is that it is okay to drink Round-up.

Which doesn't mean that anyone should or would want to drink it. It's safe to sprinkle sand on your salad. That doesn't mean you should. Ooops, I committed another strawman, er analogy.

[djean111]

146. I am calling straw man because drinking vinegar or whatever is being presented just as if

it was being seriously discussed. I get what you are saying, but trying to deflect by claiming that drinking 13,000 gallons of water is also bad (disregarding the fact that the guy in the clip said drinking Round-up was okay) , as if that was being discussed or seriously proposed, is introducing a fake analogy. Meant to marginalize or minimize.

[Major Nikon]

147. So now you're going to tell me what my reason was for discussing something?

And then argue from that basis?

The point was when you try to make the same argument with a substance that isn't so ideologically charged, it becomes a ridiculous prospect. The only thing that even remotely makes it a "fake analogy" is that vinegar actually does have culinary uses, while Roundup does not which only goes to show how even more ridiculous the argument is with Roundup.

Furthermore even if your false charge of what I was discussing was true (and it ain't), it still doesn't make it a strawman. A strawman is where you put words in someone's mouth and then argue from that basis. You know, kinda like you're doing. Again, you really do need to read up on that subject. Just trying to be helpful.

[Zorra]

167. It's straw science, Monsanto's irrefutable "Theory of Total Irrelativity".

Only an elite few are capable of grasping the smoke.

[djean111]

168. Bwahahaha! Seriously, thank you.

Because my choice of words is the only important thing about this thread. Good thing I didn't spell something incorrectly.

[Rex]

184. Thanks for summing it up so nicely!

I am going to use that one! Straw science indeed!

[BeanMusical]

189. Deflectionistas, lol, I like it. +1

[ND-Dem]

216. i've invited a couple to take the Round-Up Challenge!!!! So far, no one's said OK.

They won't drink vinegar either. It's deadly.

[Thespian2]

145. K & R

Dr. Moore isn't bat-shit crazy. He is a grifter making money off human suffering. He is a poster-boy for the GodOffalParty.

[cwydro]

148. Slime ball.

I wish he would drink it.

[packman]

152. Reading some of these back and forth posts

about absolute shit (vinegar vs. Roundup) brings up an image of two dogs pulling at opposite ends of a big bone that has nothing on it.

[Major Nikon]

155. ...

[packman]

164. Yah, that's it

Thanks for posting pix. I was looking for it, but couldn't find it. Going to save it for future DU pissing matches.

[stone space]

176. Better to eat your words than to drink your roundup.

[Pooka Fey]

179. ROFL It's safe to drink AND No, I won't drink it I'm not an idiot screw you journalist

Deep lying.

[Nitram]

180. I imagine Monsanto would point out that the product label says...

...it is safe if used as directed. I suspect they don't recommend drinking it. As the guy said, people have tried to commit suicide by drinking Roundup and failed to die. Maybe they will die of cancer sometime in the future. You are supposed to avoid contact with your skin when applying it. Bacteria rapidly break it down in the soil, but it is very persistent in water.

[Android3.14]

187. Ah, humanity

Your endless efforts to keep me amused have been successful once again.

[samsingh]

188. good for the interviewer - make people live what they advocate for others

the imbecile lobbyist says he's not an idiot - meaning that he is lying.