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riversedge

(70,087 posts)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 11:15 AM Apr 2015

What The ‘Fix’ To Indiana’s ‘Religious Freedom’ Bill Does And Does Not Do from Think Progress

Twice I heard today that (from a jubilant reporter on the scene) that for the first time it in its history, Indiana includes gender identity into its statures. But according to the article below--it is not statewide--Only in places such as Indy that had the protections prior to Pence signing the saw last Monday. Anyway read it differently>>??



http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/02/3642073/fix-indianas-religious-freedom-bill-not/



What The ‘Fix’ To Indiana’s ‘Religious Freedom’ Bill Does And Does Not Do

by Ian Millhiser Posted on April 2, 2015 at 10:32 am

Indiana’s RFRA will no longer trump state or local laws banning anti-gay discrimination: The fix provides that Indiana’s RFRA does not authorize businesses “to refuse to offer or provide services, facilities, use of public accommodation, goods, employment, or housing to any member or members of the general public” on the basis of a list of protected traits that includes “sexual orientation” and “gender identity.” Another provision provides that the state’s RFRA law does not “establish a defense to a civil action or criminal prosecution” brought against someone who engages in such discrimination. This language appears broad enough to permit local ordinances protecting gay and trans rights to function against business owners with religious objections to LGBT people. It also would enable a similar state law to function, were the Indiana legislature to pass such a law in the future.

The fix does nothing about Hobby Lobby: At the same press conference where Pence announced that he was open to language protecting against anti-LGBT discrimination, he also cited the Supreme Court’s Hobby Lobby decision as an example of what he hoped the fixed RFRA bill would still accomplish. It remains to be seen whether the Indiana courts will interpret the state’s RFRA bill the way that the Supreme Court read federal RFRA in Hobby Lobby — that is, whether they will allow religious objections to be used to diminish the rights of others. It is likely, however, that state courts will follow the Supreme Court’s lead, as they often do when tasked with interpreting similar laws.


The fix does not apply to religious groups
: Though the fix protects against discrimination by most individuals and businesses, it does still permit RFRA to be invoked by churches, nonprofit religious organizations or clergy who engage in discrimination.

LGBT people in Indiana gain no new rights from the fix: In the wake of the backlash against the original Indiana RFRA law, many LGBT rights groups hope that the state would enact anti-discrimination provisions protecting gay and trans people in Indiana at the state level. The fix includes none of these protections. What that means is that LGBT people who live in cities like Indianapolis will regain the rights they already enjoyed before the state RFRA law took effect, but LGBT people who were unprotected before this law will remain unprotected.

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What The ‘Fix’ To Indiana’s ‘Religious Freedom’ Bill Does And Does Not Do from Think Progress (Original Post) riversedge Apr 2015 OP
Thanks for the clarification. annabanana Apr 2015 #1
Pence will throw his hat in soon I think . Gathering his base with this lawe riversedge Apr 2015 #7
He's losing the middle though - given the outrage on this law. el_bryanto Apr 2015 #8
Thanks for posting this. Daemonaquila Apr 2015 #2
I knew it was going to nothing more than spin and puffery, designed to do nothing bullwinkle428 Apr 2015 #3
How would anti-discrimination laws apply to religious groups? el_bryanto Apr 2015 #4
Correct. Membership and services in and by religious groups may be restricted JDPriestly Apr 2015 #11
Nods - i can't argue with any of that nt el_bryanto Apr 2015 #13
Thanks for posting Gothmog Apr 2015 #5
it makes the law both innocuous and pointless nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #6
The Indiana GOP will probably now do what Arkansas' GOP did: Eliminate sinkingfeeling Apr 2015 #9
That was already in the RFRA passed and signed into law. ieoeja Apr 2015 #16
They can't "fix" it because they really don't want to and probably don't rhett o rick Apr 2015 #10
Pretty sad that that's all that matters, isn't it? F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #19
Yes, absolutely. nm rhett o rick Apr 2015 #20
love it D_Master81 Apr 2015 #12
Hobby Lobby (face palm) PatrynXX Apr 2015 #14
Start a religion that believes that all republicans are demons, and must not be associated Zorra Apr 2015 #15
Religion by its very nature is -none Apr 2015 #18
Still needs fixing.... blackspade Apr 2015 #17

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
1. Thanks for the clarification.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 11:18 AM
Apr 2015

As usual, they are trying to do the absolute LEAST they think they can get away with...

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
8. He's losing the middle though - given the outrage on this law.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:08 PM
Apr 2015

Unless he's planning on low voter turnout and suppression of Democratic Voters I guess.

Bryant

 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
2. Thanks for posting this.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 11:23 AM
Apr 2015

There's a lot of misunderstanding out there, and this is a great summary of what is or is not "fixed."

bullwinkle428

(20,628 posts)
3. I knew it was going to nothing more than spin and puffery, designed to do nothing
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 11:30 AM
Apr 2015

but give right wingers a new set of talking points to say what an amazing law it is NOW.

I'm awaiting corporate reaction to the new revisions.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
4. How would anti-discrimination laws apply to religious groups?
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 11:40 AM
Apr 2015

As for the rest; it's not much more than a whitewash.

Bryant

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
11. Correct. Membership and services in and by religious groups may be restricted
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:40 PM
Apr 2015

according to the beliefs and traditions of the religion.

A Catholic priest cannot be required to marry a couple if that marriage violates the Catholic religion. That is freedom of religion.

But I have never been able to figure out how a commercial transaction that involves serving pizza at a gay wedding would violate someone's religion. I can understand that a religion might teach that marrying a person of one's own sex is against the religion, but how can that religion teach that serving pizza to someone who is married to someone of his/her own sex violate the pizza-server's religion?

This is particularly true for Christians. The Jews and the Samaritans were of different religions. The significance in the story of the Good Samaritan is that Jesus helped, saved the life perhaps, of a person who was not Jewish. In fact the Jewish people considered the Samaritans to be beneath the Jews. The Samaritans were sort of outcasts from the Jewish religion in that they believed in some of the texts of the Jewish religion but not others.

How can a person claim to be Christian and refuse to help or serve people just because the people have different beliefs or conduct than the person claiming to be Christian?

What next? Will restaurants refuse to serve people because they pray the rosary before meals? or because they wear the star of David instead of a cross?

How far does the discrimination against others based on the religion of the other go?

Seems like a bad business decision on the part of the Christian fanatics if nothing else.

If I had friends who were LGBT and I lived in Indiana, I think I would call all the local restaurants and check to see whether they serve LGBT customers before making reservations for dinner with my friends. If they said that they didn't, then I would let them know why I couldn't eat in their restaurant. Same for bakeries, etc.

Talk about Shariah law. This anti-LGBT discrimination is a form of fundamentalist Christian Shariah law. How unAmerican can you get?

sinkingfeeling

(51,438 posts)
9. The Indiana GOP will probably now do what Arkansas' GOP did: Eliminate
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:25 PM
Apr 2015

the right of cities and localities to pass anti-discrimination laws.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
16. That was already in the RFRA passed and signed into law.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 02:00 PM
Apr 2015

This fix eliminates that provision thus allowing cities to enact such protections.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
10. They can't "fix" it because they really don't want to and probably don't
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:30 PM
Apr 2015

have a clue how if they did.

And I want to point out that the only reason they are even pretending to try to fix is because of the financial pressure.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
19. Pretty sad that that's all that matters, isn't it?
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:17 PM
Apr 2015

But a good lesson for us. We, the consumers and the producers, have the power. Not the employers. They have their power because we give it to them. The sooner we realize this, the better.

D_Master81

(1,822 posts)
12. love it
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:43 PM
Apr 2015

I don't get how if the LGBT community needed to be added to the bill now, it couldn't have been done a week ago? I know why, the pressure, but its funny to see the Repubs in this state backpeddle and try to act like they're doing the right thing

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
14. Hobby Lobby (face palm)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:50 PM
Apr 2015

wanna give them an odd look? next time when you say your boycotting them if they ask why .. say Hobby Lobby Forces abortions on women. that'll give them an odd look..

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
15. Start a religion that believes that all republicans are demons, and must not be associated
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 01:10 PM
Apr 2015

with.

This would permit everyone who belongs to this religion the legal right discriminate against any republican any time they wish.

Republicans Will Not Served Here.

Since the overwhelming majority of christofascists are republicans, they would get a taste of their own medicine, and reconsider their hate law.

-none

(1,884 posts)
18. Religion by its very nature is
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 02:45 PM
Apr 2015

discriminatory. That is one reason why there are so many different religions, sects, etc.

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