Guardian exposes Russian "troll center" where paid trolls spew Putin web propaganda.

[True Blue Door]

Just after 9pm each day, a long line of workers files out of 55 Savushkina Street, a modern four-storey office complex with a small sign outside that reads “Business centre”. Having spent 12 hours in the building, the workers are replaced by another large group, who will work through the night.

The nondescript building has been identified as the headquarters of Russia’s “troll army”, where hundreds of paid bloggers work round the clock to flood Russian internet forums, social networks and the comments sections of western publications with remarks praising the president, Vladimir Putin, and raging at the depravity and injustice of the west.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

Shocking, right? Even DU has at times felt the slimy touch of that Lie Machine, not that it profited them anything. What surprises me is that the Putin regime still wastes time and money on such transparent garbage. It must be the mind-warping effects of being an isolated dictator surrounded by sycophants and a country he already succeeded in cutting off from the world.

Who does he think is being persuaded by that nonsense - bad-grammar-filled ideological rants praising someone everyone outside of Russia loathes and demonizing pretty much every country on Earth other than Russia. The article mentions that it's mostly older Russians who are deceived due to lack of familiarity with the internet, but Putin is in trouble if that's his political foundation. Moreover, all he's succeeded in doing outside of Russia's borders is reminding everyone what a psychopath he is.

It would be laughable if weren't also so unbelievably insulting, not to mention a desecration of the free speech enabled by the internet. It's as if people like that just can't help themselves - they absolutely have to shit on everything that's benign in the world, sabotage and corrupt every possible source of human enrichment.

The internet is a pretty silly place a lot of the time, but individually-motivated trolls are merely a spice on an otherwise nourishing resource. But this kind of nationally-organized and funded troll army is an attack on the fundamental purpose of the internet, and all who believe in it.

[R3druM]

1. This explains a lot...

Doesn't it No need for callouts, we all know who they are.

Always remember the first chapter of the manual when hunting for trolls - its a dead giveaway.

Chapter 1: Never discuss the topic at hand when the topic is one that casts Russia in a negative light. Bring up something, ANYTHING that another country did or even did not do. The important thing is to change the subject of the conversation, and to take an offensive stance to avoid having to be defensive.

DU Rec

[True Blue Door]

3. Yup, that's the M.O. right there.

Headline: Russian economy faltering
Comment: Amrica only country what use atomic bomb Hiroshima!

Headline: Vladimir Putin trips on street, sustains minor injuries
Comment: Fascist NATO aggression in Ukraine will not stand! USA crime-filled hellhole!

Why do they even bother hiring actual people to post such shit? Bot scripts would be as convincing.

[Turbineguy]

126. Well, at least they've moved on from

"capitalist-imperialist running dogs!"

That was getting a bit tiresome.

[stillwaiting]

5. "Take an offensive stance to avoid having to be defensive."

A strategy that is FULLY implemented by our right-wing lovelies in this country (conservative politicians and media pundits).

They are EXTREMELY offensive as they are being offensive (all part of their strategy no doubt).

[True Blue Door]

7. They are undoubtedly taking notes from Putin

and will probably be deploying similar tactics domestically in years to come. The Kremlin and the GOP are kindred spirits.

The Kochs already do it on a modest scale, but the sheer size of the Russian lie operation must leave Republicans in awe and admiration.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

47. Very much Kindred spirits

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30518054

[True Blue Door]

61. Disturbing stuff. Putinistas seriously are descending into Nazi pathology.

[leveymg]

86. Russia is late to the game. Corporations and State Dept

contractors have been doing this on an industrial scale for over a decade on line. As usual, the Russians are being clumsy and heavy handed about it.

There's gambling going on in this establishment. I'm shocked, shocked I say!

[True Blue Door]

90. They're not late to the game at all. They were doing it on a grand scale

as the Soviet Union, and before that as the Russian Empire.

What's changed is that the current regime in Moscow is Neo-Nazi, with all the toxic and potentially explosive long-term consequences.

[leveymg]

97. There was an internet in the Soviet Union?

That really is news.

[True Blue Door]

98. This specific sub-thread is about the ideology behind their military aggression in Ukraine.

As prompted by the BBC article posted earlier that started this particular conversation.

Context...it's not just for "Western imperialists."

[leveymg]

102. If you say so, boss.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

110. Guess you didn't read the article he was responding to.

[ND-Dem]

114. why would you think they need to take notes from putin? it's laughable. all these

propaganda techniques are longstanding and time-honored, and the US developed plenty of them.

[F4lconF16]

77. And some of our Democratic friends, you might notice.

Anything bad about Obama or the Democrats is avoided, pointing out all the worse things the Republicans have done. A very effective tactic when used by either of them.

[NuclearDem]

2. Go West Young Elvis Signal was the most most obvious.

[arely staircase]

4. no. I think there is 'another' one who is even more obvious nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

6. LOL.

[Hekate]

15. We definitely still have a few around. Perhaps we should be flattered at the attention.

Naaaah. Just give them their pizzas.

[True Blue Door]

18. It's never flattering to be pissed on, no matter who's doing the pissing.

I want to wipe this scum off the internet.

It takes a special kind of low to make the already legitimately demented internet seem diminished by one's presence. Vladimir Putin has achieved that depth. Well done, Vladolf.

[IDemo]

28. You're pretty liberal with your conjections.

[CreekDog]

46. i find the dopplegangers just as interesting

invariably the obvious ones, the "leaders" post something.

and sure enough, the various hangers on come around to agree wholeheartedly with whatever they said.

kind of comical, though still annoying.

[True Blue Door]

57. And the tag-team commenting is also obvious and annoying.

They reply to each other's threads in perfect regularity: Guy1, Guy2, Guy3, always in that order. Sometimes they forget they're supposed to be multiple people and reply with the wrong persona. I hope they get "fined" for that kind of slip-up, like the Guardian article says they do when they go off script.

[betterdemsonly]

60. Has a user with the word ''nuclear" in their username showed up

in support of you yet?

[NuclearDem]

62. Hi!

I'm right here, you can address me directly. I know you don't have me on ignore.

[True Blue Door]

65. Why? Is the Kremlin operating a "Colmes squad" to Straw Man their opposition?

I don't pay attention to who says what, only what gets said. I won't remember your name a few hours after this conversation ends. So that should make things a little easier for you.

BTW, when are you planning to reply to my question where I asked what you meant by "NATO war". What war were you referring to? We know what Vladimir Putin means when he says that phrase - he means the war he is waging against Ukraine with no active NATO involvement whatsoever. Was that the "NATO war" you were referring to? Might want to be careful with future slip-ups like that: No one outside of Russia sees it in those terms.

[Blue_Tires]

8. Guardian is late as hell to the party

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016115227

There's also an uncanny lack of self-awareness, given their employment of Seamus Milne, but good to see them paying attention nonetheless...

[betterdemsonly]

10. Seamus Milne does't work for Russia

and has been a reporter at the Guardian since forever. Just because he thinks the nato war is stupid doesn't mean he works for them.

[True Blue Door]

11. What "NATO war" would that be?

[Blue_Tires]

12. I would suggest you read some of the independent criticism of his work

because there is a very definite and unmistakable "pattern"

[betterdemsonly]

9. I have no doubt about this but I also have no doubt neocon

Last edited Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:26 PM - Edit history (1)

warmongers against Russia are doing the same thing. The Guardian have been a lefty humanitarian apologists since 9/11. They have been distinguishably incurious about Giyus and Hasbura pr efforts. Let's not even mention the open, and outfront advocacy, of the Pentagon using the same type of pr tactics, during the 2nd Gulf War. Not to mention Hillary Clinton's open advocacy that America needs to tell a better story to the world? What do you think she is implying?

http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jpost.com%2FIsrael%2FIsraels-newest-PR-weapon-The-Internet-Megaphone

http://www.wired.com/2011/07/darpa-wants-social-media-sensor-for-propaganda-ops/

[True Blue Door]

13. Neocons adore Russia.

If they were in control, they would have turned a blind eye to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and made some sort of back-room deal to their own advantage with Putin in return for ignoring his aggression. That's how Bush's people handled Putin, and it's the GOP's most likely set of policies if they regain the White House.

As for "The Guardian has been a lefty humanitarian apologists since 9/11", try not to be so obvious. That's not even a coherent English sentence - the only thing clear about it is that you're trashing the source of the article exposing the Russian troll factory, and saying "lefty humanitarian" like it's a bad thing.

[betterdemsonly]

19. Pat Buchanan types are paleocons not neocons. n/t

[True Blue Door]

22. Oh, so you're going to pretend I didn't say most of what I just said.

I can understand why that would be necessary: You have to keep digressing from the subject - Vladimir Putin's propaganda operation. And I keep bringing it back to that subject. But let's have some fun anyway.

Conservatives in this country in general see a kindred spirit in Vladimir Putin. They condemn his actions with reluctance, and only go along with the sanctions process at all because lucrative deals between Exxon-Mobil and the Russians are exempted. They see his brutality as strength and his lies as legitimate behavior they themselves employ.

They both hate the same people and the same things: Liberals, democrats, human rights activists, gay people, Western Europe, and especially Barack Obama. Putin would be a Neo-Nazi if the German-related symbolism were not inconvenient for Russian politics. His ideology is literally fascist, and that political sector is the main source of his admiration abroad.

But he can't claim to be on the left either, so he can't wrap himself in Red without looking like a joke - so he rests his entire power base on shrill hate propaganda against minorities and foreign countries (the Nazi playbook), while screaming "fascist!" at his own victims as a rhetorical tactic against being labeled what he is.

[Cha]

67. How nice we have an example of what your OP is reporting .. right on this very thread.

[True Blue Door]

68. Say the name of the pestilence and suddenly it appears.

They probably have webcrawlers that immediately bring Russia-relevant stories to their attention so they can target troll commenting.

Is anybody doing anything to fight back against these tyrant sock-puppets?

It's a damned sacrilege is what it is. They use our free speech as an instrument of promoting tyranny, and not even because they believe in tyranny - but because they live under the thumb of a tyrant who makes them do it, or who pays them to do it.

[edhopper]

14. I won't believe this story

until i see it in RT!

Also, what does this pay, I'm looking for work.

Can I make "Big Bucks from my own home" like I heard somebody's cousin Maggie did?

[True Blue Door]

16. They probably won't hire anyone outside of Russian territory.

Putin needs his trolls somewhere he can have them killed or threaten their families.

Otherwise it would be too easy for activists and other governments to infiltrate the operation and troll the trolls.

Not that we can't troll them back anyway on a volunteer basis.

[edhopper]

17. Darn

I'll have to stick with other ways to "earn Big Bucks on the internet from my very own home."

[CreekDog]

49. and if all their trolls get PPR'd, their families get sent to Siberia

[woo me with science]

21. The depth of corruption of our own nation is revealed by its incessant propaganda aimed at Americans

Thank you, Edward Snowden for revealing the contempt and manipulation with which we are now treated by our own corrupt, corporate-purchased government.

Those who build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines, and this administration has legalized propaganda targeted at Americans that used to be illegal. Massive effort and resources are being poured into trying to give the false impression that Americans support our own government's abuses of power against us, and that we have contempt for those who expose them.

It's no accident that what used to be liberal gathering spaces are now polluted with reliable attackers of liberals and defenders of every corporate outrage and assault on democracy itself coming out of this administration: the TPP, indefinite detention, secret laws, secret courts, assaults on journalism, drone wars, drilling, fracking, corporate education, privatization, deregulation, etc., etc., etc. And it is no accident that these very same 24/7 mouthpieces also swarm and smear any journalist or whistleblower who exposes or is vocal about our government's abuses of power against its own people.

We no longer have a representative government or a democracy. We have a criminal corporate oligarchy that is using outright manipulation to attack dissent and enable the cancer that is neoconservative and neoliberal corruption and subversion of our democracy itself.

Let's repost some reminders of what we are really dealing with here:

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

[True Blue Door]

24. So you're literally going to do what was just described as the Kremlin troll playbook:

Change the subject from a negative story about Russia and instead spam accusations about the United States without even mentioning the substance of the OP.

[RufusTFirefly]

36. No. The point is that the U.S is OUR country

If we're worried about the infiltration of shills and trolls, perhaps we should focus on our own homegrown neo-liberal, corporatist sock puppets first.

[True Blue Door]

39. But you didn't try to make such a point.

You just immediately changed the subject of criticism from Russia to the United States without even acknowledging that Kremlin trolling had even been brought up. That's literally the troll script.

[RufusTFirefly]

43. I think I just did make that point. Did you miss it?

If you truly believe I'm following some sort of paranoid fantasy called a "troll script," I honestly feel sorry for you, wish you well, and sincerely hope you don't own any weapons.

[woo me with science]

48. Well said.

Thank you.

[RufusTFirefly]

51. Wait a minute! That's not part of the script!!

You're welcome.

[Trajan]

66. Guy1 .... Guy2 ...

[True Blue Door]

71. Yup. Soliloquies under multiple names worthy of a Woody Allen skit.

[ND-Dem]

117. Oh the irony

[msanthrope]

118. I miss Hannah Bell on threads like this. Don't you? nt

[ND-Dem]

119. you must, you're always saying it.

[woo me with science]

76. Actually, swarms.

This thread began, and has evolved, as an excellent example of the tactics used by the familiar corporate posting crew here. I encourage anyone interested to refer to the links I posted, including the actual information revealed by Snowden, to follow along and watch how predictable the tactics are.

I believe it's useful to point out but I won't be kicking this one again.

[NuclearDem]

80. ...

[True Blue Door]

69. So the Guardian story is a "paranoid fantasy" now?

You've gone from merely making ludicrous false equivalencies to actively denying that the Kremlin is doing any of this despite years of documented stories about it from all over the planet? That's how far away from reality you're rocketing?

This job may not be for you, friend.

[Aerows]

64. If Cass Sunstein and those of his ilk

publicly stated that grass was green, I'd go outside fully expecting that I was suddenly living in the desert. He's the slimiest character I've ever had the displeasure of reading about.

[woo me with science]

70. He's a propaganda minister aiming lies at the people our govt. is supposed to be representing.

Selected by the president, no less.

This is how corrupt and criminal our own government has become.

It's vile, it's unconscionable, and they are using our own tax dollars to do it to us.

I honestly never thought I would see my own country come to this.

[betterdemsonly]

85. Obama's behavior is confusing

This crowd are probably plotting to kill him because of the Iran deal, yet he hired a bunch of them to work in his state department and the cia? Is he playing games, or uninformed and in over his head?

He was about to make a peace deal with Putin on Syria when the latest Ukrainian color revolution was launched. Did neocon Vicky Nuland do it to sabotage him? What gives?

[True Blue Door]

25. Maybe this week you'll talk about the subject of this article.

Citing Infowars on a liberal website - you people don't even try to be credible.

[nichomachus]

26. I thought the subject was government-paid internet trolls

Or are the Thought Police in charge now? "you people" up yours.

[True Blue Door]

30. It is, absolutely.

But your comment closely follows patterns identified as Russian troll tactics - specifically, immediately trying to change the subject to criticisms of the US whenever negative information about Russia is mentioned. Immediately going on the offensive against the accuser.

You offer no connecting perspective, no meaningful thought on the general subject, you just instantly reply to a story about Kremlin propaganda by saying "Americans do it too!" exactly like Russian trolls are required to do.

And citing a website just this side of Stormfront for feverish right-wing dementia on a Democratic forum does not inspire confidence.

I'm not the Thought Police - I'm an individual with thoughts living in a country where I can express them without fear. Vladimir Putin's Lie Machine is not a threat to that, but it is an insult to it. And so is your comment.

[RufusTFirefly]

34. Are you accusing nichomachus of being a Russian troll?!

Joe McCarthy, is that you?

[True Blue Door]

37. I'm not the one citing radical right-wing sources to derail a conversation about Kremlin trolling

nor am I the one instantly chiming in to defend it. You're running down the checklist awful fast.

[betterdemsonly]

42. My sources weren't from any Alex Jones outfit. n/t

[RufusTFirefly]

53. An inconvenient truth, to be sure.

Tant pis!

[True Blue Door]

58. Oh, I'm certain of that. Unless RT has hired him.

[Major Nikon]

100. Results...

On Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:36 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

It is, absolutely.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6453038

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This person has repeatedly accused nichomachus of being a troll throughout this thread. That's a personal attack, even when done in a cowardly, roundabout way.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:46 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: infowars is a rightwing nutjob site
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Pot/Kettle
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[Cha]

105. Thank you for that, MN

[Cha]

104. LOL.. you got Alerted on by someone who was offended by "Russian Trolls"! 7-0 LEAVE!

[nichomachus]

29. There are a dozen other places that give the same information

Sorry the source I cited isn't on your approved list.

[True Blue Door]

31. You are seriously desperate to not talk about Kremlin trolling, aren't you?

[RufusTFirefly]

32. Misdirection is a pathetic, despicable tactic

If you're obsessed with nicho's source, perhaps you'll respond to the substance of woo's post above.

[True Blue Door]

35. Yes, it is a despicable tactic. Stop doing it and address the OP

instead of running through your employer's script. Your troll tag-teaming is beyond obvious.

[RufusTFirefly]

38. People in glass houses

[True Blue Door]

45. I assume breaking windows is much harder if one works in a concrete basement.

[img][/img]

[betterdemsonly]

55. If the poster was in their parents basement

they certainly wouldn't be drawing a salary from Putin. Make up your mind on what smear can stick.

[True Blue Door]

72. You didn't even read the Guardian article, did you?

I suppose it wasn't necessary - the script would be the same no matter what it said.

[betterdemsonly]

41. The original post and the article it is based on are propagandistic

hypocrisy and bs. It provides out of context facts and doesn't talk about agitators against Russia doing the same thing. If they did talk about Western government astroturfers, they probably wouldn't use the word troll to describe them. That is an irresponsible loss of objectivity on the Guardians part and so it is hard to respect.

[True Blue Door]

50. See, now you're actually putting in some credible effort. This is how to do it.

Use our own values against us, throw around distractions and disproportionate analogies, and put up smokescreens so people forget we're talking about a gigantic Russian state operation paid to falsify as much internet information and social interaction as possible.

Make people too busy doubting themselves and their source of information to remember that you are the source of their doubt. Now you're reading from the Republican playbook - a much more advanced form of fuckery.

[betterdemsonly]

54. This sort of personal attack in response to the thread not

going the way you wanted it to is the other reason I cry fowl.

[True Blue Door]

81. You "cry fowl," do you? Well, I cry fish.

I'm tired of Kremlin brownshirts shitting all over the entire internet. This is a website for liberals, not people who swoon at the sight of some psychopathic fish-faced tyrant who doesn't care how much he hurts his own country or any other. Your agenda is transparent.

[blue neen]

101. "Cry fowl"?

I know, "Cock-a-doodle, doo", right?

or

"That post really laid an egg".

[R B Garr]

120. It's more the other way around--this thread is not going the way

YOU would want it to. Very informative actually.

[FSogol]

59. +1. LOL, they'll all be hitting alert now. Be careful, jury notices will be flying

around.

[Cha]

74. Right.. my last Hide which is dissolved now was for cussing out Putin!

[True Blue Door]

93. No one should be hidden for calling that murdering Nazi fuckwad what he is.

And that it would happen on a liberal website proves something drastic needs to change.

[Cha]

94. I know.. the little putinistas' sensibilities were mightily offended. Must be punished.

[True Blue Door]

96. Bringing their sickly byzantine political lifestyle onto an American liberal website...

This is tolerating intolerance at this point. This is too much. These people are not contributors, they're an occupation force.

Assuming it's even more than one person and not just a bunch of sockpuppets, which would somehow be even more disgraceful given the amount of power being wielded against the legitimate members here.

[True Blue Door]

75. No doubt. It's shameful we've allowed things to get this far.

Allowed the infestation to become so thorough that these people can corrupt basic administrative decisions.

Letting it get this far was just extremely irresponsible. These people are naked sockpuppets spewing unhinged right-wing propaganda with rhetoric that doesn't exist in political discourse outside of Russia, and they're flooding us with it.

Folks really need to decide if they're okay with this place being repeatedly raped and disgraced by a foreign tyrant through paid liars.

It seems like there are no mechanisms whatsoever to stop these bastards from creating as many sockpuppet accounts as they want and building them up with innocuous comments just to then dominate here and in jury decisions.

[Oilwellian]

111. The big red boogie man is going to corrupt your mind

I've never seen someone with such fear of imaginary little red trolls on DU before. Weird.

[True Blue Door]

123. And apparently the entire Western media is in on the "wild conspiracy theory."

Always out to get Glorious Mother Ru- I mean, err, Russia. Supervisor, please don't dock my pay! Was honest typo!

[JonLP24]

78. Employer's script?

Last edited Fri Apr 3, 2015, 01:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Are you seriously accusing everyone with a different opinion of being a Kremlin troll?

[Fred Sanders]

99. Apparently, yes...seems everyone who does not agree 100% with the poster is a troll...what does that say about the poster?

[FSogol]

40. Infowars? Really?

[True Blue Door]

52. Yeah, someone obviously didn't attend the briefing about the vagaries of American internet politics.

The one where liberals don't cite psychotic right-wing propaganda websites. Someone's not getting a bonus.

[Rex]

116. IKR!?

Comrade Putinski probably likes Alex Jones and infowars.

[Cha]

107. Oh does the OP offend your sensibilities.. you have to try and distract with INFO WARS!

[Rex]

115. Who is 'they'? Are you saying RT is secretly Alex Jones!?

It's like people escaped from moonbat city! Why change the subject? No doubt the CIA/NSA has groups of paid trolls...but we are talking about Russia here.

[liberal N proud]

27. In the US, we have FOX News

[True Blue Door]

33. Analogous to RT in terms of toxic lying.

But falsifying internet conversations with paid trolls running from scripts is a much deeper form of sinister.

[Fred Sanders]

79. True if you have created a new meaning for "analogous". Fox the same as RT...NOT!

Some do protesteth too much.

How about concentrating some passion on the American domestic RT, if they are "analogous"?

[True Blue Door]

82. Because Fox is already under control.

They have no influence outside of their core right-wing viewers.

RT is state-funded and state-scripted, and part of a violently-imposed monopoly on media that results in journalists being murdered if they criticize Vladimir Putin on the air.

And because the subject is organized Kremlin internet trolling, such as your comment could possibly be an example of.

[Fred Sanders]

83. Fox has no influence outside their hard core viewers, you opine? Sorry, end of discussion for me with you.

Even before the rest of your overly defensive defence.

[True Blue Door]

87. Enjoy your coffee(vodka?) break.

[Fred Sanders]

92. Truthfully your wall to wall insults are destroying your entire OP credibility....I got no problem with Internet insults.

Who cares?

"Fox has no influence...outside their hardcore viewers". No response defending your assertion.... at all?

[True Blue Door]

95. Insults are easier to take when one is being paid for the trouble.

I'm not being paid, but then the weather out my window is like 70 degrees (that's Fahrenheit, for people unfamiliar with American weights and measures), and I am allowed to criticize the leaders of my country without being in danger of kidnapping, imprisonment, or murder. All in all, I think this is the better deal.

[Cha]

106. Yes, fox "news" is for the neocons/kochroaches/teabaggers, et cetera. RT is for the Russian

Government!

[Cha]

103. Yes, fox "news" is for the neocons/kochroaches/teabaggers, et cetera. RT is for the Russian

GOVERNMENT!

[CreekDog]

44. .

[DonCoquixote]

56. and water is wet

It would be laughable if weren't also so unbelievably insulting, not to mention a desecration of the free speech enabled by the internet. It's as if people like that just can't help themselves - they absolutely have to shit on everything that's benign in the world, sabotage and corrupt every possible source of human enrichment.

Whatever humans achieve, they wil find a way to screw up. Of course, let;'s face it, not only is every goverment doing this, but worse, every corporation.

[True Blue Door]

84. Wildly disproportionate equivalence.

It's the silliness of saying the Third Reich and WW2 America both engaged in propaganda.

Kremlin propaganda is alternate-universe Big Lies cribbed from Mein Kampf. The sort of material put out by corporations and Western governments is more like "spin."

[betterdemsonly]

112. Godwins Law

You have really pissed on your own thread with this pedantic crap.

[True Blue Door]

121. If it's Godwin's Law to equate a murderous tyrant who invades other countries

on premises identical to those cited by literally Adolf Hitler in taking the Sudetenland, what is it called when that tyrant then calls his own victims and democratic foreign governments that oppose him "fascists"?

Feel free to consult your supervisor if this deep question requires a response outside the script.

[Cha]

63. "..with remarks praising the president, Vladimir Putin, and raging at the depravity and injustice

of the west."

See it all time and it's not too subtle..

Mahalo True Blue Door

[True Blue Door]

88. While he's murdering journalists and political opposition figures

and wading through rivers of Ukrainian blood, Dear Leader Putin preaches about the depravity of Western countries for giving his diplomats traffic tickets.

[Cha]

91. And, hurting Gay People in Russia.. but, oh Putin!

[BainsBane]

73. I posted a story about this a couple of months ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026279986
and some of Putin's lickspittle when berserk. But then when some of us posted the leaked Kremlin document showing that the invasion of the Ukraine had been planned even before the fall of the government in Kiev, they ignored the evidence. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026288703 (I think that thread had one of the paid trolls make a brief, incoherent appearance before being PPR'd). We've seen less of their transparent BS since, but I did see a recent surreal comment claiming those who question the Russian takeover of the Ukraine are "pro-war," all while stumping for war and bloodshed on behalf of Putin. You know, because being dead just really doesn't matter if it's not at the hands of Americans. When Russian guns kill you, you've been saved from the far worse fate of being subject to IMF loans. That doesn't count as war because the dead are being liberated from a life connected to the West, clearly a fate worse that death.The complete hypocrisy and utter immorality of the Putin faction is something else.

At least the paid trolls are earning some money from it, and of course they are Russian. The colossal stupidity of some sections of the American public has proven fruitful for Putin. His paid trolls have been influential, and we see their propaganda aped back to us by the unpaid and uncritical who for whatever reason will latch on to anything that they see as in opposition to the US. (There is some bizarre self-loathing at work there that is beyond my capacity to understand). I can only imagine their admiration for Putin in part relates to his knowing how to keep the ghey in line--by locking them up.
There is all kinds of stupid in the world, but that particular brand is marshaled to promote an empire built around racism and homophobia.

And yes, I know the US is an empire that does all kinds of damage in the world. The difference between me and the Putin fan club is that I don't use that as an excuse to justify similar actions by other powers. If imperial takeover of sovereign countries is wrong for the US, it is also wrong when done by Russia, and vice versa. That would seem basic to any anti-war, anti-empire principle. Principle is something entirely lacking in the defense of Russian takeover of the Ukraine.

[True Blue Door]

89. I want to know when we can finally ban these rodents, from this website at least?

Somehow it's okay if they're foreign Nazis shitting all over this place rather than American ones?

Tolerating intolerance, and protecting tyrannical propaganda rampages designed to shout down reality under the name of free speech is just insane.

[BainsBane]

108. one has been banned

Several times. Some others are long-term members, not paid trolls. They won't be banned, nor should they be, at least not for their views on Putin alone.

[True Blue Door]

122. The longer we allow this to go on, the more of them will become "long-term members"

who will cite the innocuous content they're taught to embed their Kremlin propaganda in as evidence that they're contributing members. It's part of the playbook.

And it's not a stretch to identify such accounts: Liberals do not go around consistently promoting and making excuses for a fascist dictator engaged in active military aggression against his neighbors, who murders journalists, seizes control of his country's media, and demonizes minorities in his vile propaganda.

Liberals in this country don't just randomly develops such passionately supportive "views" about another country's radical right-wing government, coincidentally as that government deploys entire armies to corrupt and falsify internet discussions.

There has to be basic common sense here. Some basic self-defense.

[BainsBane]

124. I find the position every bit as odious as you do

but except for the few who signed up to troll exclusively on that topic, I can tell you the administrators aren't going to do anything about them.

You'll see some of the same people excusing Assad, Qaddafi, basically anyone they see as in opposition to the US. It's not just a question of being critical of US foreign policy. I am and certainly most members of this site are. They take it further. They insist on whitewashing anyone that they see as in opposition to the US, and don't bat an eye in excusing mass murder. We could be facing genocide, and if the US spoke out against it, they would defend it. That's the level of pathology.

[True Blue Door]

125. Sometimes it's very hard not to wonder if this site's title is some kind of joke.

"Democratic Underground," where all are welcome who spend at least half their time not actively shrieking violent radical right-wing propaganda.

Because that's what a Democratic Underground should be about - the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party...and fascist trolls from other countries promoting the extermination of liberalism from the Earth. I marvel at the logic of it.

That's kind of like how the Sons of Liberty did it, wasn't it? One guy gets up and makes an impassioned speech about liberty; another rails against the refusal of Parliament to grant colonials representation in parliament; then a ventriloquist from London gets up with his dummy and makes a sincere "colloquy" about how wonderful the King is and how ungrateful and stupid the colonists are, and everybody politely allows it to continue, not wishing to be seen as unreasonable or intolerant of "alternative views."

[CreekDog]

127. however many there are or were

it sure appears the current shift has this thread covered now.

[BainsBane]

128. Yet they always ignore this

Russian Newspaper publishes Kremlin strategy paper on plans to annex the Ukraine


Drawn up before the fall of the government in Kiev.

First the link to the original publication in Russian: http://www.novayagazeta.ru/politics/67389.html

Translation of the article and document as published on a Ukranian website:

"Novaya Gazeta" is publishing Russia’s plan for the annexation of a number of territories of Ukraine, which were drawn up when Yanukovych was still president of this country.

The document that has come into the possession of Novaya was presumably “brought in” to the Presidential Administration in the period between February 4 and February 12, 2014.

Now excerpts from the document:

2. Russia’s policy toward Ukraine must finally become pragmatic.

First, the regime of Viktor Yanukovych has gone totally bankrupt. Its political, diplomatic, financial, and information support from the Russian Federation is no longer meaningful.

Second, as a sporadic civil war in the form of urban guerrilla of the so-called “supporters of the Maidan” against the leadership of a number of the country’s eastern regions has become a fact, while the disintegration of the Ukrainian state along the line of geographical demarcation of regional alliances - “western regions plus Kyiv” and “eastern regions plus Crimea” - has become part of the political agenda, in these circumstances, Russia should in no way limit its policy toward Ukraine only to attempts to influence the political situation in Kyiv and the relationship of a systemic opposition (A. Yatsenyuk, V. Klitschko, O. Tyagnybok, P . Poroshenko, etc.) with the European Commission.

Third, in an almost complete paralysis of the central government, unable to form a responsible government even facing threats of default and of Naftogaz lacking funds to pay for Russian gas, Russia is simply obliged to get involved in the geopolitical intrigue of the European Community directed against the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

First of all, this is because otherwise our country risks losing not only the Ukrainian energy market, but also indirect control over Ukraine’s gas transportation system, which is much more dangerous. This will endanger the position of Gazprom in Central and Southern Europe, causing huge damage to our country’s economy.

3. The Constitution of Ukraine is in no case able to provide for a mechanism that could legitimately initiate the integration of Ukraine’s eastern territories and Crimea into the state-legal framework of the Russian Federation.

. . .
Current events in Kyiv convincingly show that the Yanukovych’s time in power could end at any moment. Thus, there is less and less time for an appropriate Russian response. The number of dead in riots in the capital of Ukraine is direct evidence of the inevitability of civil war and the impossibility of reaching consensus if Yanukovych remains president. In these circumstances, it seems appropriate to play along the centrifugal aspirations of the various regions of the country, with a view to initiate the accession of its eastern regions to Russia, in one form or another. Crimea and Kharkiv region should become the dominant regions for making such efforts, as there already exist reasonably large groups there that support the idea of maximum integration with Russia.

4. Of course, taking the burden of supporting Crimea and several eastern territories, Russia will be forced to take on budget expenses, which would be cumbersome in the country’s present position.

Undoubtedly, this will affect macroeconomic stability and the prospects for economic growth. However, geopolitically, the prize will be invaluable: our country will gain access to new demographic resources, highly qualified industry and transport personnel will be at its disposal. In addition, it can count on the emergence of new eastward Slavic migration flows - as opposed to the Central Asian migration trends. The industrial potential of the Eastern Ukraine, including the military-industrial sector, once included in the Russian military-industrial complex, will allow for the faster and more successful implementation of the program of rearmament of Russia’s military forces.

What is equally important, Russia’s constructive, “smoothing” participation in the highly probable disintegration of the Ukrainian state will not only give new impetus to the Kremlin’s integration project, but will also allow our country to retain control over Ukraine’s gas transportation system, as mentioned above. And at the same time, it will allow there to be significant changes in the geopolitical situation in Central and Eastern Europe, allowing Russia to regain its major role there.

5. To start the process of a “pro-Russian drift” of Crimea and eastern Ukrainian territories, events should be created beforehand that can support this process with political legitimacy and moral justification; also a PR-strategy should be built that draws attention to the forced, reactive nature of the actions of Russia and the pro-Russian political elites of southern and eastern Ukraine.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1048525-novaya-gazetas-kremlin-papers-article-full-text-in-english.html

[Cha]

109. thanks again for that, BB

[Rex]

113. Leave Pootin alone!