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davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 07:39 AM Apr 2015

Hell, no. I won't teach for a Christian university

A bit of background. I have lived in South Korea for over 11 years and I consider myself agnostic (I was raised Christian, sort of and considered myself Protestant as an young adult). Originally I came to Korea to teach English as a Second Language and worked my way into university positions due to having a MBA.

One of the universities I worked at a few years ago was a Christian university. At the time I needed a job and got a call at the last minute (before the start of the school year) and was interviewed and hired. They asked me if I was Christian and I said yes (I feel I can get away with saying this white lie as I was baptized when I was a child). What the school didn't tell me (a bigger lie) is that at the beginning of every class I would have to lead a prayer. Being the good devil worshiping Democrat I am (sarcasm) I changed it to a moment of silence. I ended up hating the school and left after a year.

Fast forward four years where I now work at a private university, which is pretty good over all. I have am in the process of finishing my doctorate and looking for a new job teaching in a different field. Since it is hard to know whether or not a position will be open in the university I work at I am looking at both brick and mortar school and online schools. I get a list of teaching positions that are online from time to time.

If you are still with me, this is where it gets interesting (or maybe not). I saw a position that fit maybe what I might be qualified for and looked at the school and description.

That's when I saw this one and said "hell no" (note the name of the school has been removed):

COMMUNITY LIFESTYLE STATEMENT

****** University, as a ******* Christian College, is a community joined together to further academic achievement, personal development and spiritual growth. Together the Community seeks to honor Christ by integrating faith, learning, and living while its member's hearts and lives mature in relationship to Jesus Christ and each other.

Working in a community with others is a sacred privilege and a demonstration of God's grace. We, therefore, place great value on the quality of relationship in our Community. This quality is emulated by the following relationship characteristics: being dependant and accountable to one another; serving one another in the Community, nation and world; supporting one another, especially those experiencing personal trials; resolving problems through loving confrontation; and restoring relationships that have been hurt.

Faith in God's Word should lead to behavior displaying His authority in our lives. The following statements exhibit our continuing desire to integrate faith, and action in a relevant manner. However, these positions are not set forth as an index of Christianity.

Scripture teaches that certain attributes such as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control are to be manifested by members of the Christian Community. By contrast, Scripture condemns such attitudes as greed, jealousy, pride, lust, needless anger, an unforgiving spirit, harmful discrimination, and prejudice. Furthermore, certain behaviors are expressly prohibited by Scripture. These include theft, lying, dishonesty, gossip, slander, profanity, vulgarity, adultery, homosexual behavior, premarital sex, drunkenness, immodesty, and occult practices.

Scripture teaches that all our actions (work, study, play) should be performed to the glory of God. We endeavor, therefore, to be selective in choices of entertainment and recreation, promoting those which strengthen the body of Christ and avoiding those which would diminish sensitivity to Christian responsibility. In violation of the scriptural teaching concerning personal dignity and moral purity, individuals are exploited and degraded by immoral and inhumane action of the pornographic industry. Therefore, possession of such materials is unacceptable behavior.

Since the body of the Christian is the temple of the Holy Spirit, deserving respect and preservation of its well being, we therefore disapprove of the use of tobacco in any form and the use of alcoholic beverages. Under no circumstances should controlled substances such as marijuana, hallucinogens, depressants, stimulants, cocaine, and narcotics be used, possessed, sold, or distributed on or away from campus unless prescribed by a physician. Members are expected not to abuse the use of legal substances.

Scripture teaches the stewardship of God-given resources. Therefore, we disapprove of gambling (the exchange of money and goods by betting or wagering in its various forms).

We recognize that dancing is an issue about which committed Christians disagree, and that discretion and maturity are required if dancing is to be an edifying activity. We therefore covenant together as a community to make decisions about our participation in dancing that reflect our commitment to Christ, our pursuit of holiness, our desire for purity in relationships, our adherence to biblical principles, and gracious sensitivity to others.




Yes, to get this job you have to subscribe to THEIR beliefs. What a load of bull****. Who died and made them God? I'm surprised there isn't anything in there about refraining from masturbating (maybe that is considered adultery?)

All I will say is this hits close to what has happened with the recently passed laws. If you figure out which university it is, please don't post it. The only point I am making is that it is an employer should not force beliefs on you. If I have to sell my soul to get a job, then it isn't worth it.

Edit: If no one caught it, I was referring in a settle way to the passing of the law in Indiana. The same state said school is located in).
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hell, no. I won't teach for a Christian university (Original Post) davidpdx Apr 2015 OP
Who's paying to go to that school or to keep it going? Is it Government Sponsored? nt el_bryanto Apr 2015 #1
The one I posted about is a private university davidpdx Apr 2015 #3
A lot of the money for Christian colleges and schools comes directly from the church or used to. jwirr Apr 2015 #29
ok Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #2
I went to a Methodist small colllege, clydefrand Apr 2015 #4
Interesting, I went to a private Catholic university for my master's davidpdx Apr 2015 #6
Catholic College Here ProfessorGAC Apr 2015 #15
Yeah, that doesn't sound too bad davidpdx Apr 2015 #16
Interesting. Back in the late 70s, I think a big Baptist U Ilsa Apr 2015 #12
I got my master in socilogy and a minor in history. By the time I was done I also had a mandatory jwirr Apr 2015 #30
But eating shrimp is still okay? brooklynite Apr 2015 #5
This pretty much covers it davidpdx Apr 2015 #8
Oooh! 2naSalit Apr 2015 #31
Must Obey Scripture ... Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #28
That entire statement is truly nauseating. nt RedCappedBandit Apr 2015 #7
That's a whole lotta god-talk, but not all Christian Universities are the same... Adrahil Apr 2015 #9
Not all church-related colleges are like this Freddie Apr 2015 #10
That's interesting davidpdx Apr 2015 #17
Other than the contraception thing, she got an excellent education Freddie Apr 2015 #23
It's not like they keep that statement secret oberliner Apr 2015 #11
Of course I won't davidpdx Apr 2015 #18
There are some folks who do like that sort of thing oberliner Apr 2015 #25
They'll hire some unqualified nutjob who fits in until Ilsa Apr 2015 #13
Reads like the creed for a far out authoritarian cult! n/t RKP5637 Apr 2015 #14
Agreed davidpdx Apr 2015 #19
They aren't all that bad, small-christian college is usually how the adjective links to its noun. HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #20
I'm sure there are some decent ones davidpdx Apr 2015 #21
I think there is much variability HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #22
Interesting. It sounds like a contract position, the employee would agree to all of those. Trillo Apr 2015 #24
They are a private entity. They make the rules. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #26
If the college started in an actual church Wise Child Apr 2015 #27

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
29. A lot of the money for Christian colleges and schools comes directly from the church or used to.
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 11:25 AM
Apr 2015

The government some times pays for things the church will not like science books. The government also gives things like Pell grants and loans to student but not in seminaries.

clydefrand

(4,325 posts)
4. I went to a Methodist small colllege,
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 07:47 AM
Apr 2015

and had to take 1 year of religion taught by a minister.
All our reference books were written by Atheist. The prof. said they were more open minded to
how the history of the Christian religion developed.
That class brought me to absolutely NOT believe that Jesus (as taught) ever existed, and
I still believe the same to this day (60+ years later).

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
6. Interesting, I went to a private Catholic university for my master's
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 07:50 AM
Apr 2015

But they didn't push religion, so I had no problem with it.

You made me remember something I didn't put in my OP though. At the university I worked at here in Korea they made the freshman got to church once a week every week and took attendance. From what I can remember in discussions with my students they could only be absent two times during them term.

ProfessorGAC

(64,859 posts)
15. Catholic College Here
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 08:44 AM
Apr 2015

Undergrad and one of my advanced degrees both from catholic uni's. No religion requirement at either school.

Although my undergrad is in science, i had to take the same elective liberal arts stuff as everyone else. So, in the philosophy side of things, they had religion classes, but they were not at all required of anyone. (Well, maybe those planning to join the Chrisitan Brothers, who ran the school).

That being said, one of my electives was compartive religion. Very cool class. Learn the history of the religion. Connect it to the culture. Then on weekends go to a service and then hit a restaurant to have that culture's food. I liked that class a lot. It was really more a culture and history class than religion.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
16. Yeah, that doesn't sound too bad
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 08:54 AM
Apr 2015

I could live with that. If I was having religion forced down my throat, then I would have a problem.

Ilsa

(61,690 posts)
12. Interesting. Back in the late 70s, I think a big Baptist U
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 08:33 AM
Apr 2015

was largely the same way. A friend who graduated from it said the religion professors were generally heretics, not just the textbooks.

I believe the Southern Baptists cleaned house on them, though.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
30. I got my master in socilogy and a minor in history. By the time I was done I also had a mandatory
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 11:28 AM
Apr 2015

masters in religion. This was not all theology - I had a lot of classes in history of religion.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
28. Must Obey Scripture ...
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 11:15 AM
Apr 2015

'cuz it's all, like, TOTALLY true and legit, and not just a bunch of weird-ass myths and stories slapped together several centuries ago.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
9. That's a whole lotta god-talk, but not all Christian Universities are the same...
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 07:54 AM
Apr 2015

Notre Dame and Georgetown are both technically Christian universities, but are not known for being oppressive about it.

Locally we have two Christian universities. One, Anderson University does require an affirmation of faith from faculty (but not students), and students are required to attend convocations, but teachers do not have to lead prayers, and are free to pursue controversial topics. Until about 10 years ago, they DID forbid dancing on campus, but that has changed.

A very good friend of mine is a dean there. He's a liberal Christian. He still teaches classes though, and he has students from a variety of backgrounds. He even has two Muslim students this semester.

The other, Taylor University, sounds very much like the above. Would not touch with a 10 foot pole.

Freddie

(9,257 posts)
10. Not all church-related colleges are like this
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 08:00 AM
Apr 2015

As a Lutheran I know a few folks who went to Lutheran colleges and there was nothing at all like this. The only difference was the requirement of a religion class or two for graduation.
My daughter went to a small Catholic college (for its excellent nursing program) that had been founded by nuns. Again no difference except the requirement of 2 religion and 1 philosophy class. She took the same prof for both religion classes. He was a priest, an excellent teacher who did not demand that the students keep to the "party line" in sticky issues, especially the Medical Ethics class. The only really Catholic thing they did was to not discuss contraception or abortion at all in her maternal-health nursing class; she had to learn about it on her own for state boards.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
17. That's interesting
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 08:57 AM
Apr 2015

My niece is going to a Catholic university for a nursing degree here in Korea. I might have to ask her if religion is mentioned at all in her classes.

Freddie

(9,257 posts)
23. Other than the contraception thing, she got an excellent education
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 10:00 AM
Apr 2015

The college (Gwynedd-Mercy, near Philly) brags that 95% of graduates pass their boards on the first try, my daughter did. I think they pass on the best of Catholic values--helping others, serving the poor, compassion. She was told at a job interview that "we like to hire Gwynedd nurses" for these reasons plus the excellent clinical education there.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
11. It's not like they keep that statement secret
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 08:28 AM
Apr 2015

If you don't like it, you don't have to apply for the job.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
18. Of course I won't
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:04 AM
Apr 2015

The point is why would I want to work for someone who oppresses my thoughts. I mean unless you like that sort of thing.

Ilsa

(61,690 posts)
13. They'll hire some unqualified nutjob who fits in until
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 08:35 AM
Apr 2015

their suppressed and repressed penchant for kiddie porn or something is exposed.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
19. Agreed
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:06 AM
Apr 2015

If you are going to work for them why not just give them full control of our thoughts. It's pretty much what you are doing anyway by signing that.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
20. They aren't all that bad, small-christian college is usually how the adjective links to its noun.
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:11 AM
Apr 2015

Not to say that zealous institutions are unknown.

I know of one in SE Wi which requires faculty to have "a calling".

I interviewed at one in the western Chicago suburbs that required classes to being with a prayer and worried about your home life's association with dinner wines.

I also know an otherwise conservative and quiet little college in a well known conservative Wisconsin suburb that has a quite reliable decades long tradition as a safe environment for LGBTQ.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
21. I'm sure there are some decent ones
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:17 AM
Apr 2015

Given my experience with the one here in Korea I am more leery about applying for them. The one my niece goes to has many branches around Korea (the Catholic university I mentioned up thread) and probably wouldn't be too bad to work for. It wouldn't be my first choice for sure. As I said I went to a Catholic university for my master's and it wasn't bad. The main thing is there wasn't religion forced on you.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
22. I think there is much variability
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:56 AM
Apr 2015

My best academic experience was teaching at a Jesuit university while my worst experience with academic freedom was at a college affiliated with School Sisters of Notre Dame.







Trillo

(9,154 posts)
24. Interesting. It sounds like a contract position, the employee would agree to all of those.
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 10:17 AM
Apr 2015

I worked for a very small business once, a building contractor, that required you to subscribe to a lot of their beliefs (not religious), or you would be fired. It was a long time ago, and don't recall everything, but one stands out: never disagree with the boss. This was also interpreted very broadly. If you were talking about the aesthetic of how something was done and how that aesthetic could be improved, you were fired for disagreeing with the boss about how it was done. It didn't require you to tell the boss that you disagreed with how it was done.

Quite honestly, some bosses can be real jerks, second only to the police. Their biggest difference is the method of execution.

If you don't share a deep belief in those same exact sets of rules, it's better for you to not be interested in the job. Christians, particularly the authoritarian kind, have a long history of deception, and they seem to always assert they're honest.

Wise Child

(180 posts)
27. If the college started in an actual church
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 11:12 AM
Apr 2015

basement or activities building, fifty or more years ago as a seminary, and then expanded their cirriculum to Liberal Arts, to meet the demand of parents who do not want their children to attend a state university, then it's usually a school of the Fundie variety. If the administration building looks too new, and the other buildings look like they were built in the seventies and eighties, then it might be a particularly religious institution, marketed as the "Christian" alternative to a regional state university.
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