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Joel thakkar

(363 posts)
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 06:13 AM Apr 2015

Bill Maher Was Spot On Last Night And A Great Asset To Left-Liberals

1) Islam is not a race. It is a religion. Thus, i don't think he is racist. If you say he is anti-religion, it should be a compliment.

2) Fareed Zakaria actually agreed with him on many points and said "Islam has a cancer in it"..

3) Fareed also agreed on the pew research surveys that maher cites often and said that he will agree to the survey finding and not dispute it.

3) Only thing Fareed disagreed with Bill was that : the method from which the cancer should be removed from Islam. He said telling people : "your religion is motherload of shit and craziness" is not the best way. From what i get, fareed wants muslim to reform their religion and throw away fanatical ideas. While, on the other hand, Bill thinks that religion itself is a bad concept and would be better if muslims became atheist or more like salman rushdie or taslima nasreen.

4) If someone is so glad with "Fareed Zakaria's" stand on this issue..you will love how he is a self proclaimed "pro" capitalist who always spews his agenda for drastic cuts in social security, medicare and tax cuts for the big companies.

5) Just because bill makes anti-islam or anti-Christianity comment...doesn't mean that he is not anti-Hinduism or anti-Buddhism..both religons are not mainly in news in USA...while Christianity and Islam is..

6) His "Chocolate Jesus" may be taken literally or in context of joke..but don't forget he was a strong supporter of obama, both in 2008 and 2012. He also donated $1 Million for obama Super Pac in 2012 and yes, he has always stood for black rights..whether it in Ferguson or Chicago or in any deep south town..He also criticized cops arresting/beating/shooting black people and always stands for drug reforms and legalization which helps the black community..Oh yes, a racist who is also dating black woman...she must be attracted to him due to his racist anti-black stands..right ?

7) Few peoples quote his old interview with Israel president "Netanyahu" and says he is a Zionist and anti-muslim...but if those people had time to see latest episode where he specifically said with senator elizabeth warren - "We are Pro-Israel but not like conservatives/republican". He said in the context where he and warren both supports the "US-Iran" deal and don't oppose it like Israel's prime minister "Netanyahu" or Republicans.

8) He also said that "Hillary has my vote but not my money" and offered $1 Million to Senator warren if she runs for presidency. Thus, nice way to alienate a guy who has supported obama in his last 2 campaigns and supports senator warren who is a true liberal unlike hillary who is more of a centrist.

9) Also, he has also exposed american hypocrisy by bombing one by one muslim country and then expecting them not to chant "anti-american" slogans. He has always said that USA should stay out of middle east war and middle eastern countries should solve the problem on their own.

10) Also the argument that Muslims feel threatened by the way bill maher speaks is bull-shit...yeah as if he is beheading them like isis or discriminating them in any way or threatening to kill them / blow them up.. He is not even protesting against anyone..while muslims protested against him during that "Berkeley" incident.

11) Also, a bigot is a person who cannot tolerate opposing views..if he is a bigot, why he keeps on inviting people like fareed, ben affleck, rula jebreal, reza aslam on his show when he knows that they will have opposing views ? It is a proof that he likes to have a debate with people who have opposing views. This is a virtue of a liberal and completely opposite to a bigot. Oh and by the way, his famous and most intense critic "Reza Aslam" is a good friend of him in real life and he personally has said that bill is not a bigot.

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bill Maher Was Spot On Last Night And A Great Asset To Left-Liberals (Original Post) Joel thakkar Apr 2015 OP
"anti-religion" is not liberal. bananas Apr 2015 #1
Yes shenmue Apr 2015 #3
Atheism is inclusive..it doesn't divide people into difficult cults or beliefs. Joel thakkar Apr 2015 #22
Sooo... Vartra Apr 2015 #32
HUGE R & K! He is NOT a "Vile Racist" & your points are Spot On! RiverLover Apr 2015 #2
The word yr looking for is Islamophobe... Violet_Crumble Apr 2015 #4
Stating that Islam has a "cancer" of violence in it isn't condemning the entire religion or the RiverLover Apr 2015 #5
Ah, but he's made plenty of comments lumping Muslims as a whole in with extremists... Violet_Crumble Apr 2015 #6
LOL. For those defending this icon of libertarian liberalism's ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #9
Yeah, it does make me wonder... Violet_Crumble Apr 2015 #10
But ... non-christian religion ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #14
I must have missed that. I've heard -other- people say he's made those comments, RiverLover Apr 2015 #12
There were a few big threads here a few months ago where he'd said such stuff... Violet_Crumble Apr 2015 #15
No..he hasn't Joel thakkar Apr 2015 #25
lol.. Joel thakkar Apr 2015 #23
U.N.: Dozens of Muslims massacred by Buddhists in Burma JonLP24 Apr 2015 #7
Its easy to point out a few christian extremist acts. Pales in comparison to daily Islamic terror. 7962 Apr 2015 #18
Those that live under the daily terror are Muslims JonLP24 Apr 2015 #24
Thank You Joel thakkar Apr 2015 #26
You're having to work way, way, too hard on Maher's behalf. Paladin Apr 2015 #8
Yup. I gave up on him a while ago. Ineeda Apr 2015 #17
You sure as hell wouldn't have liked last night's show. Paladin Apr 2015 #21
Religious fundamentalism of any stripe The Wizard Apr 2015 #11
many at du survive by being perpetually outraged Doctor_J Apr 2015 #13
That appears to be very true. RiverLover Apr 2015 #19
Doctor_J, have a look at this...for the humour challenged and hyper-PC types. Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Apr 2015 #36
That's a really interesting observation. I'm going to mull this one over riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #38
Just look at the greatest page Doctor_J Apr 2015 #41
I know we're getting way OT but I've been hearing DU was better "in the old days" riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #42
#11; Apparently we have a LOT of bigots on DU 7962 Apr 2015 #16
I thought it was one of his better shows Martin Eden Apr 2015 #20
I think Joel thakkar Apr 2015 #28
A documentary like that could have value ... Martin Eden Apr 2015 #30
.... DeSwiss Apr 2015 #29
He also gave Elizabeth Warren top billing last night, and a supportive interview. Hoyt Apr 2015 #31
How the eff does this have 40 recs... joeybee12 Apr 2015 #33
Huh.!! Whaddya know? I "recc'ed" before I saw your admonishment. A HERETIC I AM Apr 2015 #35
Happy to "rec" this. Well done. n/t A HERETIC I AM Apr 2015 #34
Both liberals and conservatives hate him. He must be doing something right. Throd Apr 2015 #37
Not one word about why I call him an asshole... Archae Apr 2015 #39
You did a fair job of encapsulating Maher's show last night. bvar22 Apr 2015 #40

bananas

(27,509 posts)
1. "anti-religion" is not liberal.
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:02 AM
Apr 2015

Liberalism is an inclusive philosophy.
And there are many religious liberals on DU.

Joel thakkar

(363 posts)
22. Atheism is inclusive..it doesn't divide people into difficult cults or beliefs.
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:30 AM
Apr 2015

Religion is a separative philosophy which separates humanity on the basis of religion. And, yes, i agree there are religious liberals on DU too and so are Atheist liberals on DU.

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
4. The word yr looking for is Islamophobe...
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:04 AM
Apr 2015

And there's nothing left-wing or liberal about being bigoted against any group of people based on race, religion, ethnicity or gender.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
5. Stating that Islam has a "cancer" of violence in it isn't condemning the entire religion or the
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:10 AM
Apr 2015

entirety of people with that faith.

It does point to the fact that there have been many violent acts in the name of Islamic beliefs held by extremists within that religion.

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
6. Ah, but he's made plenty of comments lumping Muslims as a whole in with extremists...
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:24 AM
Apr 2015

Which points to the fact that he's a fucking bigoted piece of crap and his views on Muslims aren't the slightest bit left-wing...

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
9. LOL. For those defending this icon of libertarian liberalism's ...
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:48 AM
Apr 2015

islamophobia ... Why, when some says "white people do/say/act ..." or "Men say/do/act ...", are you so quick to invoke "NotAllWhitePeople/NotAllMen" ... yet you can't seem to see it here?

I wonder if #NotAllMuslims is still available?

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
15. There were a few big threads here a few months ago where he'd said such stuff...
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:06 AM
Apr 2015

He'd be fine if he stuck to taking the piss out of all religions (I don't think what he does is taking the piss anyway, not like comedians do) and not focus on the people who practice a religion. If I wasn't so lazy and about to head to bed I'd go dig them up. I might do it in the morning

Joel thakkar

(363 posts)
25. No..he hasn't
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:49 AM
Apr 2015

He said : ofcourse vast majority of muslims won't behead people or bomb people like isis is doing...

adding that he also said :

1) Vast majority of muslims will support having sharia law...

Source : 2013 pew survey



2) Wife should always obey her husband

Source : 2013 pew survey




I can go on and on....btw, fareed didn't dispute the survey findings...he just said that few muslim countries like Indonesia are now progressive, which is ironic because 93% muslims there still believe that women should obey her husband.


Btw, please provide me Christian majority or Hindu majority or Jewish majority or Buddhist majority country with same beliefs and survey findings and i will be the first one to publish it here and spread it as much as possible. Heck, i will even try to email bill maher and show producers to include that in the show. And yes, i am not telling you to find the other religion survey just to prove that islam is bad than others. All religions are same and yes, christian/hindu/buddhist countries also has same beliefs and i just can't wait to find a survey about them.

Joel thakkar

(363 posts)
23. lol..
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:36 AM
Apr 2015

Bigoted means not able to tolerate opposing views and still bill brings people week after week who has opposing views for a debate with him.

And yes, i agree that it is not "Liberal" just to oppose one religion and praise the other religion. But, a liberal also sides with scientific evidence and it is a liberal thing to call religion as bull-shit and religious fundamentals as morons.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
7. U.N.: Dozens of Muslims massacred by Buddhists in Burma
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:32 AM
Apr 2015

YANGON, Burma -- The United Nations has confirmed that at least 48 Muslims appear to have been killed when Buddhist mobs attacked a village in an isolated corner of western Burma, a massacre that has been the vehemently denied by the government since it was first reported by The Associated Press just over a week ago.

<snip>

Buddhist Rakhine mobs, seeking retaliation for the abduction and killing of a police officer by Rohingya villagers, entered under the cloak of darkness with knives, sticks and guns and went on a killing spree, residents in the area told the AP on condition of anonymity because they feared reprisals. Many of the victims were women and children, hacked to death by the mobs, they said.

The humanitarian aid group Medecins Sans Frontieres, or Doctors Without Borders, said it has treated 22 patients, some with wounds It appealed to the government for safe access to the affected populations, many of whom are still in hiding.

Though the village has been sealed off by security forces, Matthew Smith of Fortify Rights, an independent human rights group, said some residents have been able to return during the day and, as of Wednesday, reported that some bodies were seen in abandoned homes. He called for an end to mass arrests, saying that in the hours that followed the killings, riot police started rounding up all male Rohingya, including children over the age of 10, in surrounding areas.

An investigation by the United Nations confirmed that a massacre had taken place. The U.N. released a statement late Thursday saying there were credible reports that at least 48 people had been killed in two separate bouts of violence.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-dozens-of-rohingya-muslims-massacred-by-buddhists-in-rakhine-burma/

Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic

BANGUI, Central African Republic – Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation.

In towns and villages as well as here in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims, who are a minority here, and burned and looted their houses and mosques in recent days, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers. Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.

<snip>

On Friday, thousands of Muslims hopped aboard trucks packed with their possessions, protected by soldiers from Chad, and drove out of Bangui, as Christians cheered their departures or tried to loot the trucks as they drove through Christian areas. At least one Muslim man, who fell from a truck, was killed by a mob. Meanwhile, thousands more Muslims huddled at the airport in a crowded hangar, waiting to be evacuated.

“They are killing Muslims with knives,” said Muhammed Salih Yahya, 38, a shopkeeper, making a slitting motion across his throat. He arrived at the airport Wednesday from the western town of Yaloke with his wife and five children. “I built my house over two years, but the Christians destroyed it in minutes. I want to leave.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

Samantha Powers "The worst crisis most people have never heard of" - http://usun.state.gov/briefing/statements/214763.htm

He is prejudiced, bigoted, hateful, & fearful of followers of the religion. Rula Jebreal may have a different opinion on how willing to discuss it but instead whats to give his views unchallenged, plus she was 100% factual & calls his views "offensive". She also pointed out that Reza Aslan isn't on his show a lot, last time since Aug. 11 & this is what he said since those Berkeley remarks. --



The doctrine he needs to focus on, rather than blame the faith is Wahabbism which didn't exist before the 18th Century and has many unique beliefs & practices not practiced by traditional Islam & is more of a cult with wealthy investors & a well financed propaganda machine.

Wahhabism (Arabic: وهابية‎, Wahhābiya(h)) or Wahhabi mission[1] (/wəˈhɑːbi, wɑː-/;[2] Arabic: ألدعوة ألوهابية‎, ad-Da'wa al-Wahhābiya(h) ) is a religious movement or offshoot branch of Sunni Islam.[3][4][5][6] It has been variously described as "orthodox", "ultraconservative",[7] "austere",[3] "fundamentalist",[8] "puritanical"[9] (or "puritan&quot ;[10] as an Islamic "reform movement" to restore "pure monotheistic worship" (tawhid), by scholars and advocates[11] and as an "extremist pseudo-Sunni movement" by opponents.[12] Adherents often object to the term Wahhabi or Wahhabism as derogatory, and prefer to be called Salafi or muwahhid.[13][14][15]

Wahhabism is named after an eighteenth century preacher and scholar, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703–1792).[16] He started a revivalist movement in the remote, sparsely populated region of Najd,[17] advocating a purging of practices such as the popular "cult of saints", and shrine and tomb visitation, widespread among Muslims, but which he considered idolatry, impurities and innovations in Islam.[5][18] Eventually he formed a pact with a local leader Muhammad bin Saud offering political obedience and promising that protection and propagation of the Wahhabi movement would mean "power and glory" and rule of "lands and men."[19] The movement is centered on the principle of tawhid,[20] or the "uniqueness" and "unity" of God.[18]

The alliance between followers of ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad bin Saud's successors (the House of Saud) proved to be a rather durable alliance. The house of bin Saud continued to maintain its politico-religious alliance with the Wahhabi sect through the waxing and waning of its own political fortunes over the next 150 years, through to its eventual proclamation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 1932, and then afterwards, on into modern times. Today Mohammed bin Abd Al-Wahhab's teachings are state-sponsored and are the official form of Sunni Islam[3][21] in 21st century Saudi Arabia despite the fact that majority of its Sunnis are non-Wahhabis.[22] This makes adherents of Wahhabism a "dominant minority" in the country.

<snip>

Wahhabism has been accused of being "a source of global terrorism",[27][28] and for causing disunity in the Muslim community by labeling non-Wahhabi Muslims (such as Shias or mainstream Sunnis) as apostates[29] (takfir), thus paving the way for their bloodshed.[30][31][32] It has also been criticized for the destruction of historic mazaars, mausoleums, and other Muslim and non-Muslim buildings and artifacts.[33][34][35] The "boundaries" of what make up Wahhabism have been called "difficult to pinpoint",[36] but in contemporary usage, the terms Wahhabi and Salafi are often used interchangeably, and considered to be movements with different roots that have merged since the 1960s.[37][38][39] But Wahhabism has also been called "a particular orientation within Salafism",[5] or an ultra-conservative, Saudi brand of Salafism.[40][41]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

Recently, a new sect called Wahhabi came into being within Islam. This sect is a mixture of the heretical movement Mujassimah (Anthropomorphism – which is the belief that God is similar to humans), and the Khawarij sect. Since followers of Wahhabism claim that they are trying to purify Islam, they call themselves "Salafi," while naming others "Sufi." Based on the dictionary meaning, Salafi means "antecedents," which refers to the Muslims in the first century. However, the practices and beliefs of people following Wahhabism have nothing to do with the early Muslims. Therefore, Salafism is a misleading term for this community. The Western world mistakenly considers Wahhabism within the framework of Sunni beliefs. This mistaken belief is propagated through the acts of al-Qaida, the Taliban and now ISIS. There are people who do not realize the difference between Salafism and Sunni beliefs even among Sunnis. In order to be a Sunni, one should not and cannot accept rebellion against a government as a legitimate right. So, categorizing those who rebel against a government and even kill others in the name of Islam is a historical error.

Wahhabism first appeared near the Nejd region in eastern Arabia toward the end of the 18th century under the leadership of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, who died in 1791. The foundations of this sect are based on a 14th-century scholar named Ibn Taymiyyah who came from Harran, which is an ancient city located in southeastern Turkey. Ibn Taymiyyah, who once belonged to the Hanbali school of Sunni Islam, was put on trial in Damascus and Cairo and then sentenced due to his beliefs which were close to the Mujassimah (Anthropomorphism) sect, as well as due to some negative comments by some friends about Prophet Muhammad. This scholar, known for his thoughts and religious personality, was against certain concepts of Islam such as Sufism, prophecy, intercession and grave visits. He also put forward marginal opinions on some matters of law which contrast with the thoughts of prominent Islam scholars. He and his students were criticized harshly in their life times and were also accused of being heretics and even atheists.

Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab investigated the views of Ibn Taymiyyah and his students thoroughly and began to follow them fanatically. Similar to Martin Luther who led the Protestant Reformation, al-Wahhab came forward claiming his desire to purify Islam. He viewed grave visits and tomb building as well as Mawlid reading, Sufism, mimbar and the minaret in the mosques and using prayer beads when following prayers as a disgrace to the religion of Islam. The first person to object to al-Wahhab was his brother Suleiman; he wrote a book rejecting his brother's views. Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab was also in contact with British intelligence officers who wanted to control trade in the Persian Gulf at that time. The founder of Wahhabism died in 1791 after writing down his views in a book entitled "Al-Tawhid." His views mostly spread among the Bedouin (nomadic Arabs). The emir of Diriyyah, Muhammad bin Saud, the ancestor of the royal family of present-day Saudi Arabia, married the daughter of al-Wahhab and accepted Wahhabism in 1744. His successor, Abdul Aziz ibn Muhammad bin Saud, launched an attack on Hejaz in 1811. When Medina fell, the soldiers of tore down the sacred tombs belonging to Muhammad's friends and family and the residents of the city were killed. Upon the order of Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II, the governor of Egypt Mehmed Ali Pasha marched to Hejaz and retrieved Mecca and Medina by hiring nomads and villagers as mercenaries. However, Abdullah, the great-grandson of Abdul Aziz, who attacked again was defeated in 1818. Abdullah and his sons were sent to Istanbul and hanged. Following this defeat, their center in Diriyyah fell and was destroyed. Despite the Saudis' approach to historical artifacts and sites, this area is an open-air museum today.

Saudi emirs accepted the defeat and Ottoman rule as Riyadh district governors. However, with the help of the British forces during a power vacuum, they reclaimed Hejaz and all of Arabia in 1918. In 1924, Mecca and Medina fell, and Hüseyin Pasha who was the governor of Mecca during the Ottoman period (but became the King of Hejaz in 1916 after he declared his independence), was exiled from Hejaz. Soon after, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was founded and the namesake great-grandson of Abd al-Aziz who had rebelled 100 years ago was declared king. By becoming king, Abd al-Aziz avenged his grandfather who was hanged in Istanbul a century ago. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia won the support of the U.S. after World War II and grew stronger following the discovery of petroleum in its lands. Wahhabism, which is known as the Salafi Movement, is the official sect of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Imams and Muslim judges belong to Wahhabism and they are guided by the views of Ibn Taymiyyah in their decisions. Since Ibn Taymiyyah used to belong to the Hanbali school of Sunni Islam, people tend to think that the Saudi Kingdom also belongs to this sect. However, the four sects of Ahl us-Sunnah are not accepted in this country. The government of Saudi Arabia has adopted a more moderate policy. Now, Wahhabism is spread through the press and education systems. Râbıta al-alemi al-Islami (The Muslim World League) is an international propaganda organization for Wahhabism. The organization opens Islamic centers all over the world and sends religious people to these places in order to spread Wahhabism. These types of organizations have been growing stronger every day and can now be found from the Balkans to the Caucasus, Africa to India. They especially target Muslim countries that do not have social or financial power. This movement is a serious threat to world peace.

http://www.dailysabah.com/features/2015/02/13/wahhabism-pure-islam-or-extremism

If Maher discussed the issue on this level he'd be alright, he very rarely has someone on who does which many of those people you listed critique Maher on, especially Reza Aslan

EXCLUSIVE: Reza Aslan on Bill Maher’s anti-Islam crusade: “Frank bigotry”

And I would say that the other thing that’s a little bit different is that the criticism of Islam has really crossed the line into what can only be described as frank bigotry. When he starts decrying how many babies born in Europe are named Mohammad, says things about Muslims in America “bringing that desert stuff into our world” — that is no longer just simple criticism of religious doctrine or practice. That’s a very specifically targeted animosity towards a particular group of people. You don’t see him saying things like that about other religious groups — though, again, in his defense, to him the problem is religion in general.

Do you feel like that shift — from being critical of all religions, including Islam, to being especially critical of Islam, specifically — is something we’re seeing elsewhere in the media?

Oh, yes. This is not just a problem with Bill Maher, it’s not just a problem with CNN or Fox News.

I think there is a general oversimplification [in American media] when it comes to the discourse about Islam and Muslims. And partly that has to do with the reality that in large parts of the Muslim world there are undeniable, unavoidable political/cultural/sectarian/religious conflicts that are saturating our television screens. So if you are just some average person watching the news on a regular basis, it’s not that difficult to draw a line between the violence that’s taking place in Syria and Iraq and the Muslim who lives across the street from you.

But Bill Maher isn’t the average person! [Laughs] He is a media personality, he’s intelligent, he’s humorous, he has a cultural significance — and so it’s surprising to see these kinds of unconsidered remarks from him; and more importantly, an inability to recognize how his rhetoric is coming across.

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/10/exclusive_reza_aslan_on_bill_mahers_anti_islam_crusade_frank_bigotry/
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
18. Its easy to point out a few christian extremist acts. Pales in comparison to daily Islamic terror.
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:21 AM
Apr 2015

The fact of the matter is that radical Islam is a worldwide movement, endorsed by some governments and many Islamic leaders. Polls show that tens if not hundreds of millions of muslims agree with the radical positions of many of the terror groups push. Anti-woman, anti-Jew, anti-Christian, anti-a lot of things. You wont find many polls of christians showing a lot of support for radical acts.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
24. Those that live under the daily terror are Muslims
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:47 AM
Apr 2015

the sect itself -- One of the more detailed estimates of religious population in the Persian Gulf is by Mehrdad Izady who estimates, "using cultural and not confessional criteria", only 4.56 million Wahhabis in the Persian Gulf region, about 4 million from Saudi Arabia, (mostly the Najd), and the rest coming overwhelmingly from the Emirates and Qatar.[22] Most Sunni Qataris are Wahhabis (46.87% of all Qataris)[22] and 44.8% of Emiratis are Wahhabis,[22] 5.7% of Bahrainis are Wahhabis, and 2.17% of Kuwaitis are Wahhabis.[22]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Population

They don't have a significant following but they have significant influence thanks to oil partnerships with the House of Saud, the first state sponsored Wahabbism

Funding factor

Estimates of Saudi spending on religious causes abroad include "upward of $100 billion",[299] between $2 and 3 billion per year since 1975. (compared to the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1 billion/year),[300] and "at least $87 billion" from 1987-2007[301]

Its largesse funded an estimated "90% of the expenses of the entire faith", throughout the Muslim World, according to journalist Dawood al-Shirian.[302] It extended to young and old, from children's madrasas to high-level scholarship.[303] "Books, scholarships, fellowships, mosques" (for example, "more than 1,500 mosques were built from Saudi public funds over the last 50 years&quot were paid for.[304] It rewarded journalists and academics, who followed it and built satellite campuses around Egypt for Al Azhar, the oldest and most influential Islamic university.[159] Yahya Birt counts spending on "1,500 mosques, 210 Islamic centres and dozens of Muslim academies and schools".[300][305]

This financial aid has done much to overwhelm less strict local interpretations of Islam, according to observers like Dawood al-Shirian and Lee Kuan Yew,[302] and has caused the Saudi interpretation (sometimes called "petro-Islam"[306]) to be perceived as the correct interpretation—or the "gold standard" of Islam—in many Muslims' minds.[307][308]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Population

US is a long time ally of the original government endorsed Wahabbism which has enabled them to push a petrodollar financed propaganda operation so that has to be taken into context when discussing influence.

Most Muslim Americans See No Justification for Violence
Muslims Americans more likely than other faith groups to reject attacks on civilians

ABU DHABI -- Muslim Americans are the staunchest opponents of military attacks on civilians, compared with members of other major religious groups Gallup has studied in the United States. Seventy-eight percent of Muslim Americans say military attacks on civilians are never justified.



These findings are among the many featured in a new report released Tuesday by the Abu Dhabi Gallup Center, Muslim Americans: Faith, Freedom, and the Future, based on Gallup surveys conducted throughout 2010. Building on Gallup's early 2009 report on America's Muslim community, Muslim Americans: A National Portrait, this analysis tracks changes since 2008, delves into current social and political research topics, and provides a series of data-driven policy recommendations.

In sharp contrast with Americans who identify themselves with other faith groups, Muslim Americans are more likely to say military attacks on civilians are never justified (78%) than sometimes justified (21%). Respondents from other faith groups, particularly Mormon Americans, are more likely to say military attacks are sometimes justified than never justified. The opinions of Americans who don't identify themselves with any religion are more in line with those of Muslim Americans, but they are also more divided.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148763/muslim-americans-no-justification-violence.aspx

Empathy for victims is critical in hate crime cases. For Muslims, that can be hard to get.

On Monday, a grand jury indicted Craig Hicks — accused of fatally shooting his Muslim neighbors in their Chapel Hill, N.C., home — on three charges of first-degree murder. The indictment made no mention of a hate crime. One of the victims, 21-year-old Yusor Abu-Salha, had previously told her father that Hicks made her uncomfortable, saying “he hates us for who we are and how we look.” Hicks’s Facebook page reveals many hateful posts about religion, and the victims’ relatives say he became hostile only after Abu-Salha, who was visibly Muslim because of her headscarf, moved into the home with her new husband. Her sister, who also wears a headscarf, was killed as well. But police have suggested that this gruesome attack simply stemmed from a parking spot dispute. Emphasis on this “motive” shows how difficult it can be for American Muslims to get justice when targeted for their faith.

<snip>

One significant hurdle is simply getting hate crimes against Muslims reported to authorities. FBI statistics show that about 160 Muslims were victimized in hate crimes each year between 2011 and 2013. This number is a result of significant underreporting. American Muslims experience prejudice far more often than they report to authorities. When asked anonymously in a 2011 Pew poll if they had been threatened or attacked in the past year, 6 percent of Muslims said they had. Given that the Muslim population was 2.6 million in 2010, responses to the Pew poll suggest that about 156,000 Muslims were victims of hate crimes. The Justice Department notes that two out of every three hate crimes are not reported because victims believe that police cannot or will not help. This is especially true for Muslims, who have been targets of massive surveillance, deportation, questioning and other harassment by local and federal law enforcement during the past 14 years. That excessive scrutiny has eroded the trust necessary for victims to report hate crimes.

Even if a victim knows how to navigate the law enforcement system and file a hate-crime complaint, there are dynamics that may make it more difficult for Muslim victims to win convictions. In surveys conducted in 2006 and 2007, Georgetown University researchers found that Muslims, whether or not they are American, face severe stereotypes in the United States. Americans stereotype Muslims as far more untrustworthy and violent than whites, blacks, Hispanics and Asians. This can create barriers to gaining empathy from police, attorneys, judges and juries.

Even with these hurdles, a chilling truth remains: The number of reported hate crimes motivated by anti-Muslim bias is five times higher than before 9/11. From Oregon to Ohio, mosques and Islamic centers have been torched and defaced. The lives of innocent Muslim workers have been threatened, and people even suspected of being Muslim have been killed by perpetrators invoking the 2001 terrorist attacks. In December, a 15-year-old Muslim, Abdisamad Sheikh-Hussein, was run down and killed in Kansas City, Mo., by a man in an SUV who had a history of anti-Muslim views and had made threats against the local mosque. The SUV had an anti-Muslim message, comparing the Koran to Ebola, in its rear window at the time of the attack. This disturbing level of hate crimes, coupled with an increasingly prejudiced and vicious environment of anti-Muslim rhetoric, has led our nation to a crisis point.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/02/17/its-hard-to-prove-any-hate-crime-but-for-muslim-victims-its-especially-tough/

Americans Have Grown More Supportive Of Torture
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/senate-torture-report-public-opinion/

13 Years After 9/11, Anti-Muslim Bigotry Is Worse Than Ever
Americans view Muslims far worse today than right after 9/11. Some of this is Muslims’ own fault. But the hate-mongering sure isn’t.

The numbers tell a distressing tale. In October 2001, an ABC poll found that 47 percent of Americans had a favorable view of Islam. By 2010, that number had dropped to 37 percent.

And today, alarmingly, only 27 percent of Americans have a favorable view of Muslim Americans. This last poll is the most concerning because it shows how my fellow Americans see my Muslim friends, colleagues and even me—because I’m Muslim.

<snip>

Making our efforts more challenging is that we are a small minority group, comprising only 1 to 2 percent of the nation. Unsurprisingly, a recent Pew poll found that more than 60 percent of Americans don’t even personally know a Muslim.

<snip>

The proponents of these laws will demonize Muslims while making the case for these measures. Yet they publicly admit there are zero instances of Muslims trying to impose Islamic law in their respective states. For example, Florida State Senator Alan Hays conceded as much but argued the anti-Shaira law legislation was needed as a “preemptive measure,” similar to when your parents would “have you vaccinated against different diseases.”

And worse, we have seen unmitigated hate spewed by some Republicans that could inspire hate crimes. For example, just last week Oklahoma State Representative John Bennett wrote on his official Facebook page that Christians should be “wary” of Muslim Americans because they are planning to kill Christians. Not only did Bennett refuse to apologize for his comments, the Oklahoma state Republican chair defended Bennett.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/11/13-years-after-9-11-anti-muslim-bigotry-is-worse-than-ever.html

2010 Austin suicide attack

The 2010 Austin suicide attack occurred on February 18, 2010, when Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single-engine Piper Dakota light aircraft into Building I of the Echelon office complex in Austin, Texas, United States,[4] killing himself and Internal Revenue Service manager Vernon Hunter.[5] Thirteen others were injured, two seriously. The four-story[6][7] office building housed an IRS field office occupying the top three floors, along with a couple of private businesses on the first floor. Prior to the crash, Stack had posted a suicide note referring to "greed", "insanity", and the IRS, dated February 18, 2010, to his business website. Stack is also suspected of having set fire that morning to his two-story North Austin house, which was mostly destroyed.

In the aftermath, there was increased debate over the policies of the IRS, and appropriate forms of protest. In response to the attack, the IRS spent more than $38.6 million,[8] with $6.4 million spent to recover and resume work at the building, and over $32 million spent to increase security at other IRS sites in the U.S. However, the spending on security changes was questioned as being ineffective (see below). The building was repaired by December 2011.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack

At scene of Nevada ranch standoff, 'citizen soldiers' are on guard

Bundy's private war, a decades-long court battle with the Bureau of Land Management over his cattle grazing on public land, recently took a decidedly populist turn: When armed federal agents moved to oversee the roundup of hundreds of Bundy's cattle across half a million acres managed by the BLM, some Americans sat up wide-eyed before their televisions and computer screens.

The government says that Bundy owes $1 million in fees for letting his cattle graze in the Gold Butte area. Still, the get-tough tactic became a clarion call for those who see the federal government as arrogant and bloated. Suddenly, truck drivers, pizza deliverymen and ex-cops from as far away as New Hampshire and Georgia converged upon this unincorporated ranching town.

The self-described "citizen soldiers" arrived venting a smoldering anger and wielding AR-15 and AK-47 rifles. Days later, the government called off the roundup and released 350 of Bundy's cattle back onto public land.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nevada-range-war-20140425-story.html#page=1

Las Vegas Shooting Suspects Wielded Nazi Swastika

Shooters had the Nazi symbol and a "Don't Tread on Me" flag
The shooters who killed two Las Vegas cops Sunday draped a Revolutionary-era flag and a Nazi swastika over one of the bodies, authorities said Monday, describing the killers as espousing views and carrying symbols that were “undoubtedly” white supremacist in nature.

http://time.com/2848920/las-vegas-shooting-white-supremacist/

The thing is when you say pales in comparison is what it is compared to on a global scale not to mention the US atrocities & human rights violations with the bombings & war. You have CIA black sites in Jordan with the help of a brutal oppressive Monarchy. US currently supporting Saudi Arabia's war with Yemen. CIA teaming up with war lords & drug traffickers in Afghanistan. Indefinite detention, torture, etc. Indiscriminate killing in Fallujah. Human trafficking in Kuwait & Iraq. Corruption from defense contractors. Pales in comparison to what exactly?

Joel thakkar

(363 posts)
26. Thank You
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:00 AM
Apr 2015

Thank you for providing link where Buddhist and Christian fundamentals have massacred people from other religion. This just helps in proving the point that all religions have fundamentalist who don't have a place in civilized society.

I really hope fundamentalist of all religions are discussed and not only of Islam.

Paladin

(28,254 posts)
8. You're having to work way, way, too hard on Maher's behalf.
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:46 AM
Apr 2015

Last night's show sealed the deal, for me: Maher has allowed his virulent Islamophobia to co-opt his abilities as an entertainer. He's reduced himself to being just another preacher. Enough is enough.

Ineeda

(3,626 posts)
17. Yup. I gave up on him a while ago.
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:16 AM
Apr 2015

He's an egotistical, self-righteous, bigoted BULLY. He used to be funny but has become a virulent one-trick pony.

Paladin

(28,254 posts)
21. You sure as hell wouldn't have liked last night's show.
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:21 AM
Apr 2015

Maher confirmed every single trait you set forth, except more so. Enough is more than enough.

The Wizard

(12,542 posts)
11. Religious fundamentalism of any stripe
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:56 AM
Apr 2015

is a bane to humanity. It assumes the cult can do or not do whatever it pleases because an imaginary sky hero approves.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
13. many at du survive by being perpetually outraged
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:05 AM
Apr 2015

One of the reasons the site's outlived its usefulness and is in large measure a cartoon of pc ness instead of a place to rally populism and populist candidates

Response to Doctor_J (Reply #13)

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
38. That's a really interesting observation. I'm going to mull this one over
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:27 PM
Apr 2015

very insightful and more thoughtful than many comments about why DUs readership is dwindling.



 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
41. Just look at the greatest page
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:32 PM
Apr 2015

Do we really need 25 separate threads on Walter Scott? Another 10-15 on police brutality? More Tiger Beat pictures of the president? Posts patting Obama on the back for finally talking back to republicans after 6 years of letting them walk all over him? The usual posts from the HoF. WillPitt has two threads, both dedicated to proving that Boston is just as racist as Alabama, both of which are nearing 100 recs. the golden years of DU are gone.

Of course a big part of the problem is that many Duers presently here don't want populism to return. they're just fine with drone strikes, the worst & most expensive healthcare system in the world, sell-off of public education, fracking and off-shore drilling, minimum wage job creation, elimination of labor unions (especially teachers and police), and regressive taxes. That's why the party's demise has tracked closely with DU's

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
42. I know we're getting way OT but I've been hearing DU was better "in the old days"
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 11:57 AM
Apr 2015

well, since forever...and I've been here 9 years as a member with another year before that lurking.

That said, it's indisputable that participation here is down and even I recognize the differences in the topic quality.

Thanks for an interesting observation. To tie it into Maher's show, and this particular episode and how it always shakes out here on DU, I guess I think the bigot accusation is thrown around here way too easily. You've made that point about the pc police on DU stifling discussion and I agree to a certain extent, with this episode of Maher's obviously pointing up the DU fault line.

I haven't seen this episode yet so I can't really comment but I'm going to guess it was similar to the Affleck/Harris episode which I didn't interpret as bigoted at all. Maher has some valid points about Islam and other regressive religions. What folks like Affleck (and many DUers) appear to do is conflate that as an attack on Muslims.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
16. #11; Apparently we have a LOT of bigots on DU
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:11 AM
Apr 2015

Because there are MANY times where I'm told I've been put on "ignore" (childish) just for having a differing opinion on something. Sometimes trivial. I've been called many names for the tiniest disagreement.
Bill's right about Islam and so are a lot of other people

Martin Eden

(12,864 posts)
20. I thought it was one of his better shows
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:29 AM
Apr 2015

Bill often comes off as a smug jerk who is very full of himself, but he can be very funny at times and I agree with him more often than not. I thought Zakaria made some very good points, but it's not really Bill's job to be diplomatic or persuade Muslims to change. He's a political commentator & comedian who calls BS as he sees it.

Where Maher comes up short is a lack of depth in his efforts to debate serious issues. He paints with a broad brush in his condemnations of Muslims and really doesn't go much deeper than pointing out the backwards & bigoted beliefs that have been used by extremists to justify discrimination & murder. Stating the obvious doesn't lead to a better understanding by his viewers, which should be a goal if he's going to host a debate on serious issues.

The show tries to be both comedy and serious talk show and doesn't fully succeed at either, though I have gotten some good laughs.

Joel thakkar

(363 posts)
28. I think
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:07 AM
Apr 2015

he should make a special documentary and should go in depth for debating serious issues. I agree with you that deep research and debate is needed in it but to be fair he also has limited time for this issue on his show. Thus, a dedicated documentary which includes all types of views, would be best

Martin Eden

(12,864 posts)
30. A documentary like that could have value ...
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:54 AM
Apr 2015

... but I don't think Bill Maher would be the best choice to produce it and lead the discussion.

On the other hand, a prominent entertainer/controversial figure like Maher could give it a needed boost to attract viewers rather than be mostly ignored.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
40. You did a fair job of encapsulating Maher's show last night.
Sat Apr 11, 2015, 08:43 PM
Apr 2015

One of the important items you missed is that Fareed Zakaria pointed out that there are over 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the World, and only a small percentage of them are radicalized.
It seems that most of the problems emanate from the Middle East,
and that is a difficult knot to undo.

Personally, I believe that when the USA employes "Shock & Awe" on one Muslim nation,
the neighboring Muslim nations are naturally attracted to radicalized, militant leaders.

Zakaria did his best to point out that there are many Muslim nations like Malaysia that live in peace, but Maher wasn't hearing any of that.

Maher is a militant atheist, and will attack ANY religion.




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