The freak out of some Democrats over

[MannyGoldstein]

some comments about Our Next President™'s logo is interesting.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. not really...

freakouts happen over just about everything, so this descends into bored time wasting really fast.

[Kelvin Mace]

2. Well, either the logo was chosen to spit in the face of

the liberal wing of the party, or she and her operatives are the stupidest people on the planet for their failure to see the symbolism of a red arrow pointing right.

[Renew Deal]

6. Or this shit is so dumb people can't help but wonder why they're wasting their time arguing

[Kelvin Mace]

39. Cool, ignore the people it offended

she doesn't need their votes anyway.

[Renew Deal]

40. If people don't vote for her over the logo

They've got more problems than Hillary can solve.

[zappaman]

41. No fucking kidding.

[Kelvin Mace]

60. Ummm, I doubt people will refuse to vote for her over the logo

I refuse to vote for her because she is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Wall Street and praises Henry Kissinger.

When you are a tool of the 0.01% and you adore a war criminal, you are not getting my vote.

I doubt I am alone in this view.

The logo is just an indicator of her arrogance or stupidity, take your pick.

[treestar]

87. So why bother to be offended by the logo?

Do you know of any person who if they had the chance to meet Kissinger personally, would turn away coldly or insult him, calling him a war criminal they won't associate with? Would Liz Warren do that?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

51. I dont like it because I think it could have been cooler looking, but the arrow direction

is so silly, please tell me you are kidding

[Kelvin Mace]

58. I keep explaining this:

HRC paid a ton of money to some DC consultant group (this would be the same type of people that helped her lose to Obama in 2008) and no one in their focus group pointed out the obvious symbolism to people suspicious of her liberal cred that a rightward pointing RED arrow would indicate?

Either this was intentional, or it was colossally stupid.

Neither reason is very auspicious for her campaign kickoff.

I did an impromptu poll of the liberals in my office who had not seen the logo. I asked them their thoughts without any indication of my views ( I simply asked: What do you think of the Clinton campaign logo?) All six said that same thing: Why does she have a red arrow pointing to the right?

[treestar]

88. I did an impromptu poll of the liberals in my office

there are 7 of them, and they all loved it.

[one_voice]

42. +1

[Pooka Fey]

17. This logo and the whole debate surrounding it

is the visual equivalent of another driver on the freeway suddenly swerving into your lane, then flipping YOU the bird for being upset over their nearly having caused an accident.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. Yep,

I see it as a HUGE middle finger to liberals such as myself. And I will act accordingly.

[one_voice]

45. Some days I can't believe the stuff I read here. n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

46. Adn I have no idea why someone

who praised Henry Kissinger is considered a viable candidate for president by people here. It is like endorsing Dick Cheney.

[leftofcool]

77. Please proceed.

[treestar]

89. Why would she be so secretive about it?

As to say it only in this manner.

[1StrongBlackMan]

102. I would say this whole debate ...

Is the equivalent of looking at the ink blot and aging that it shows a demon rather than a teddy bear.

What one sees is largely determined by how one feels about the (now) candidate.

[Pooka Fey]

104. A weird wacky post

It's less weird to just ask someone what they think about the 1st Democratic candidate in the race, rather than posting a cryptic veiled message about demons and teddy bears and ink blots on an anonymous discussion board, wouldn't you agree?

[url=http://postimg.org/image/mjeplo7g3/][img][/img][/url]

[JaneyVee]

22. OMG THE 2 BLUE TRIANGLES ARE ILLUMINATI PYRAMIDS!!!

The logo is red white and blue, THE HORROR!

Here's the obvious answer: she's capitalizing on the Obama O logo by using a letter: H. And also capitalizing on Obama's "forward" slogan.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. Again,

assuming all benign intent, some moron got paid a river of cash to come up with this logo, and everyone was utterly clueless as to the mixed message it would send.

But hey, HRC doesn't need my vote (and others like me), and doesn't want it since apparently she has all the votes she needs.

Cool.

[JaneyVee]

29. If you see that logo you will know who it is.

Mission accomplished. Thats how logo and advertising works.

[Kelvin Mace]

32. Yep, I see

a reassurance that Wall Street is safe, and eternal war will continue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. You got all that from a logo?

Woo

[Kelvin Mace]

73. HRC, the establishment pick

for center-right Democrats and friend of America's top war criminal.



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/12/1376828/-Left-flank-critique-of-Hillary-Clinton-On-Wall-Street-ties

The evidence is there for those who would see. The logo is just icing.

[NuclearDem]

33. Yes, some people got paid

to make a logo subconsciously pleasing to an audience that reads and writes right-to-left and sees going rightward on a timeline as progress.

But since a handful of people who had made up their minds well in advance wrote their own meaning into it, it's the designer's fault.

Yeah.

That make sense.

[Kelvin Mace]

34. Hey, she's going to be the nominee

and with Wall Street and Kissinger behind her, she is a dead cert to win. Votes from people like me a re not wanted nor needed.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

54. As often as I disagree with you, YES it has to point to the right as in going forward

that anyone is making a shitstorm out of that simply fucking amazes me

[leftofcool]

78. Yea, like 86% of Dems.

[Kelvin Mace]

97. Yes, because 86% of the Democratic party

is what percentage of the electorate?

[treestar]

90. True if 86% of the party supports her

what interest does she have in catering to you only?

Politics is about people working together. Not about the demands of one individual.

[Kelvin Mace]

96. Well, since she can win with 86% of "the party"

why worry about what I say? It's a done deal.

[okaawhatever]

23. It isn't a red arrow in the majority of instances. It's usually white with a blue arrow.It is

probably red and blue on the internet because the background pages are white. The arrow
is a play on the recurring theme from the Democrats of moving forward. lt's been used for several years now. You know, like MoveOn.org. or "Forward" as one of Obama's campaign themes.

Sometimes an arrow is just an arrow. l'm not worried though, I think Clinton can win without your vote should she get the nomination.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Well, that's good then

[Katashi_itto]

27. I like the logo

I think it's cool

[rock]

35. Well I see this take so often on DU that I am going to have to comment

From the logo's perspective it points to the left. Tha is, if the "H" was a person, it would be pointing to the left.

[Kelvin Mace]

38. Yes, but from the perspective of the people whose votes she expects

to garner, the arrow is red and point right.

[rock]

44. And from the people who are laying on their right sides

The arrow is pointing up whether these are voters or not. Now let me take a picture of you while you point to the left.

[treestar]

91. I don't think she expects everyone's vote

She doesn't expect Republicans to vote for her. I think she probably does not expect people so far left they don't like the Democratic party to vote for her. And I seriously, seriously doubt any thought went into that logo other than make it look cool.

[Kelvin Mace]

95. I agree that little to no thought went into the logo

By the way, exactly who would be the "far left"?

Those of us opposed to the massive illegal war we waged and continue to wage in the Middle East?

Those of us who think the Wall Street financiers should have gone to jail for ruining the economy?

Those of us who think Guantanamo should be closed?

Those of us who think war criminals should be prosecuted?

Those of us who think it should be illegal to spy on America citizens without a warrant?

Those of us who think the police should be de-militarized and held accountable for murdering unarmed citizens?

Those of us who believe in a progressive income tax?

Those of us who oppose trade agreements that protect corporations while screwing workers?

Those of us who believe the government has no business involving itself in women's reproductive health?

Those of us who believe the time has come to cancel oil, gas and nuclear subsidies?

Those of us who believe that drilling of our coasts needs to stop?

Those of us believe that fracking needs to stop?

Please do tell me about these horrible people.

[treestar]

105. Many of those people you described will vote for her

They are not people who'd want a Republican. Have to weigh all of those issues I guess.

[merrily]

79. Really? you see discussions of a logo often on DU?

And the logo has a perspective? And the perspective of the logo is what matters? Not the perspective of the masses of people who will be looking at the logo?

[rock]

83. It's the way English works

If I ask you to raise your left hand, that's what it looks like to me.

[merrily]

101. Logos are not alive. There's only one perspective re: a logo, namely that of someone looking at it.

[rock]

103. It's an amigbuous situation

The logo has a right and left just as you and I do. Without further specification it can go either way.

[11 Bravo]

36. When she stands beside it, the logo points to her left.

Just sayin'.

[Kelvin Mace]

37. Right,

and one more time: Either a deliberate slight, or a complete failure to recognize the logo would be problematic. My cat could have told her that it was a problem.

Malice or incompetence.

Not great choice either way.

[treestar]

86. Seriously?

Anyone who'd bother to take it that way is not serious about politics.

[Renew Deal]

3. Says one of the antagonists

[KittyWampus]

7. Right? Amazing how the antagonist can play the victim at the drop of a hat.

[emulatorloo]

65. Well to be fair, it is unclear which of his personas is posting today

[KittyWampus]

4. It's a reaction to the fools reading more into it than is rational. Once again,

I find myself annoyed at DU'ers for making me have to defend Hillary, whom I really don't want as President.

[HereSince1628]

11. Why create a logo that is so ambiguous and suitable for mockery?

There was an obvious failure of understanding Image Control 101. Team Hillary really wasn't very careful on this one.

[AngryAmish]

19. People said Obamas logo looked like goatse

Don't look up goatse.

The whole thing is srupid, an exercise in confirmation bias.

[HereSince1628]

21. I have no idea about goatse...lack of social awareness probably protected the O logo

The thing with image control and useful application of meaningful symbols is that it requires being in touch of the common uses of the symbol

I suggest anyone who has a driver's license is aware that arrow is exactly like the ones that point traffic to the right.

And there are much worse things that can be projected upon it...

Lack of appreciation for people's common knowledge and/or likely interpretations is a messaging issue. Failure to recognize that hints of potential weaknesses in that dept. Regardless of how important the logo is, if a real weakness is present there it needs attention.

[emulatorloo]

59. I suggest anyone who uses a web browser knows that arrow means "forward"

ex web and interactive graphic designer here.

[HereSince1628]

70. Maybe, but there are dems who don't use web browsers.

But, I'm sure that sort of people aren't important enough to worry about.

[muriel_volestrangler]

106. Plus anyone who has used a cassette deck, video recorder, CD or DVD

That covers pretty much everyone, by this decade. And it's not as if it's offensive to someone who has never seen used one of those. It just might not mean anything to them (but, then again, it might - for the same reasons that the original designers of playback equipment chose right-pointing arrows for 'forward').

[L0oniX]

48. OMG someone else knows about goatse.

We're you on IRC underground years ago too?

[AngryAmish]

62. No. But some things once seen cannot be unseen.

[bunnies]

56. I googled it.

kill me now.

[greatauntoftriplets]

57. I was a moderator here for four years.

It was quite an educational experience.

[dissentient]

5. If you don't love our new corporate logo, you are obviously an enemy and traitor

of everything that is good!

And you probably hate kittens too, on top of it all.

[OKNancy]

8. you mean that thread started by a troll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6496176

THat was the infamous library girl. LOL

[msanthrope]

25. Check out the recs and exchanges in that thread....illuminating. nt

[zappaman]

64. Bwhahaha!

49 recs for a troll!
Telling...

[AngryAmish]

9. agreed.

[KittyWampus]

10. Gee, did you or a buddy start a thread attacking the logo and get it locked or something?

And if you or a buddy did, wouldn't that make this thread both Meta and disingenuous?

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Not to my knowledge.

Happy hunting.

[B Calm]

13. Yes, it is interesting. Even more interesting is the low post count posters,

posting right-wing propaganda about Hillary.

[OKNancy]

14. and were banned by the admin

[MissDeeds]

15. It happens

Wasn't there a lot of discussion about Obama's logo looking too much like the Pepsi logo?

[SidDithers]

16. The freak out of some "Democrats" over the logo is even more interesting...nt

Sid

[DrDan]

18. it is disheartening to me . . . but not upredictable

[Autumn]

20. 2007 and 2008 Version 2.0

[msanthrope]

30. You mistake the hysterical laughing for a "freak out." Your exchanges on Library Girl's

now locked thread were high comedy Manny....hat tip to you!!!

[hrmjustin]

31. No expect you to act like well...you!

[Throd]

43. It's merely disappointing. It could have been so much better.

[HereSince1628]

50. It's a satirical cartoonist's dream come true

An arrow and geometric blocks can be made into almost anything but a circle,
which of course doesn't mean circles won't be added.

But, I can't say it's all bad. The one thing that's going to be very true about it is that it's going to be recognized as her's. For some ad people that's the entire objective for a logo.

[L0oniX]

47. ...about as interesting as watching Romper Room.

Worship of the logo is pathetic.

[Bobbie Jo]

61. Actually...

"Romper Room watching" is more like those who think people "worship" a logo, and then actually go on to post that thought.

Brilliant.

What does that even mean??

[foo_bar]

49. c'mon, the whole thing is a rebranding exercise

Yesterday was the soft launch of Hillary 2.0 (or whatever point oh), but these things aren't set in stone, she could change logos twelve times before the convention if the invisible hand wills it. I'm almost ready to give in and embrace this democracy-by-marketing concept, I bet some genius came up with this logo just to piss off the sorts of people who worry about these sorts of things. Aldous Huxley penned some prescient thoughts on these matters:

In regard to propaganda the early advocates of uni­versal literacy and a free press envisaged only two possibilities: the propaganda might be true, or it might be false. They did not foresee what in fact has happened, above all in our Western capitalist democra­cies -- the development of a vast mass communications industry, concerned in the main neither with the true nor the false, but with the unreal, the more or less totally irrelevant. In a word, they failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions. <...>

The task of the commercial propagandist in a democ­racy is in some ways easier and in some ways more difficult than that of a political propagandist employed by an established dictator or a dictator in the making. It is easier inasmuch as almost everyone starts out with a prejudice in favor of beer, cigarettes and ice­boxes, whereas almost nobody starts out with a prej­udice in favor of tyrants. It is more difficult inasmuch as the commercial propagandist is not permitted, by the rules of his particular game, to appeal to the more savage instincts of his public. The advertiser of dairy products would dearly love to tell his readers and lis­teners that all their troubles are caused by the mach­inations of a gang of godless international marga­rine manufacturers, and that it is their patriotic duty to march out and burn the oppressors' factories. This sort of thing, however, is ruled out, and he must be content with a milder approach. But the mild approach is less exciting than the approach through verbal or physical violence. In the long run, anger and hatred are self-defeating emotions. But in the short run they pay high dividends in the form of psychological and even (since they release large quantities of adrenalin and noradrenalin) physiological satisfaction. People may start out with an initial prejudice against tyrants; but when tyrants or would-be tyrants treat them to adrenalin-releasing propaganda about the wickedness of their enemies -- particularly of enemies weak enough to be persecuted -- they are ready to fol­low him with enthusiasm. <...>

Effective rational propaganda becomes possible only when there is a clear understanding, on the part of all concerned, of the nature of symbols and of their rela­tions to the things and events symbolized. Irrational propaganda depends for its effectiveness on a general failure to understand the nature of symbols. Simple-minded people tend to equate the symbol with what it stands for, to attribute to things and events some of the qualities expressed by the words in terms of which the propagandist has chosen, for his own purposes, to talk about them. Consider a simple example. Most cos­metics are made of lanolin, which is a mixture of purified wool fat and water beaten up into an emulsion. This emulsion has many valuable properties: it penetrates the skin, it does not become rancid, it is mildly antiseptic and so forth. But the commercial prop­agandists do not speak about the genuine virtues of the emulsion. They give it some picturesquely volup­tuous name, talk ecstatically and misleadingly about feminine beauty and show pictures of gorgeous blondes nourishing their tissues with skin food.

http://www.huxley.net/bnw-revisited/#propdem

[99Forever]

52. It has all of the substance and relevance...

...to the issues that are important to me that I have come to expect from HRC and her supporters.


Bravo.

[olddots]

53. up next

Backwards masking in those heathen records ........

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

55. The logo could have been far more interesting and techie and cool, HOWEVER

it isnt that important either way and it sure as hell isnt intended to be an attack on the left

sheesh

BTW

anybody interested in seeing the logos that were considered and rejected?

I am

[tularetom]

63. It tells me it's gonna be a long 19 months

Hillary Clinton is one of the most divisive candidates ever, regardless of party. Everything she does seems to be controversial and she inspires strong reactions in both supporters and detractors.

Even her choice of a campaign logo causes controversy. But it's just symptomatic of what we can expect from a Clinton presidency.

Of course the republicans are going to nitpick her to death. They do that to every Democratic candidate. They've been trying to do that to Obama without much success for the past seven years. Sadly for them, he doesn't let it bother him and just ignores it. Clinton won't react the same way, she'll take the bait every time, get on a high horse and deny whatever they accuse her of. Problem is she doesn't handle denial well. Even when innocent, she looks like she's hiding something. Just like Richard Nixon.

I doubt that the republicans are quaking with fear at the prospect of a Clinton candidacy. They're probably rubbing their hands together in gleeful anticipation. It's so easy to wind her up.

[emulatorloo]

69. HRC's been successfully dealing w the right wing noise machine for 20+ Years

I wouldn't underestimate her ability to make mincemeat of those motherfuckers.

[tularetom]

75. Yes, I'm especially impressed with the way she made mincemeat of them over Benghazi

Why you never hear a peep out of them anymore.

If she's been "successfully" dealing with them for 20+ years, why haven't they STFU yet?

[Nay]

85. Really. They're still yapping about Vince Foster, fer chrissake. I am so going the check out

of this whole 2016 mess. I can't stand all this CRAAAAAP one more time. I'm sure I'll have to haul my tired old ass into the voting booth, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna waste my time with all the yowling and shit-throwing.

[emulatorloo]

93. Nobody but teabags and freepers take the Benghazi committee seriously.

[H2O Man]

66. I've figured it out:

some of our friends here are allergic to logic, rational thought, and/or truth. They break out in nonsense, when exposed to these pesky things.

[Corey_Baker08]

68. Simply Enough It Means Hillary:Moving America Forward

Moving forward with the progress and the policies of President Obama. Not turning back to failed policies of the Republican Party, especially here likely opponent in November, Jeb Bush.

[Andy823]

80. That's what I thought also

Hillary moving the country forward.

It really doesn't matter what kind of a logo is used, what matters is what each candidate is going to do to help this country move ahead, and not take it back to the days of George W. Bush, the worst president in history as far as I am concerned. What I want is to see the plan each candidate has to fix the problems in this country.

[NCTraveler]

72. Really is amazing how some can find something wrong with anything.

I don't get how people can have such a reaction. It is an emotional reaction of negativity some have with respect to her. I am glad you notice how silly the Hillary Can Do Nothing Right crowd is. Seriously. A fucking logo has these people talking as if they have scored their next Gowdy moment.

[Nitram]

74. Any liberal offended by the stupid logo should just take a deep breath and

stop imagining things that aren't even there.

[Thinkingabout]

76. In your signature line, Elizabeth Warren a president for the 100%, yep, she will take care of the

1%.

[MannyGoldstein]

81. But also the 99%

Therein lies the additional value.

[Zorra]

82. That frightening logo could lose the Presidency for us. nt

[NCTraveler]

84. It's not the freak out over the logo that had to come first.

It is the freak out over the freak out that concerns you. lol. So many freak outs down the line. Hard to keep track of what stage in the freak out we are suppose to be concerned about. Your concern is noted.

[Rex]

92. Clearly HRC drew it herself, knowing (with a smirk) is would piss off a lot of DUers!

She did it on porpoise!

[HereSince1628]

100. I pondered that this morning...how many of us have played with our initials?

That thing really could be something HRC drew in the wayback.

Until the designer is named, I think we have to keep that possibility open.

[Pooka Fey]

107. There was a "Design the HRC Campaign Logo" contest held for DC elementary kids

https://twitter.com/massfubar/status/587334025985011713/photo/1

Some guy's precocious preschooler entered it and won...

https://twitter.com/tomgreever/status/587454133805850624/photo/1

Now that I know that no adult had a hand in this, I'm OK with it.

[KMOD]

94. The freak out over the logo

is funny and sad.

[NanceGreggs]

98. The only "freaking out" ...

... is coming from the armchair psychoanalysts who are "seeing" all kinds of things that aren't there.

The response to that group has been a pretty consistent - as is appropriate in the circumstances.

I'm waiting for the first poster to play Hill's announcement video backwards, so they can start an OP about the subliminal messages contained therein.

[workinclasszero]

99. I know right?

Republican jihadists are trying to pass sharia laws in Indiana and Arkansas with more to follow no doubt.
Whole states are becoming fiefdoms of the Koch bros and their puppets. The whole damn world is burning up and nothing done to stop it, wages suck, republicans are determined to destroy social security, etc etc.

But fuck!!

Hillary's logo..horrors! Somebody get the smelling salts while I clutch my damn pearls eh?