Is abortion ever the MORE ethical choice over giving birth?

[FarLeftFist]

Link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/05/when-abortion-is-the-more-ethical-choice/

-SNIP-

So, why did I make that update? I wasn’t looking to be convinced - I already thought there are many, many situations where abortion is the more ethical choice over giving birth. But I never see abortion framed in terms of being “more ethical.” I always see it described as this necessary evil that we all have to feel sad and guilty about. That the choice must be a terrible struggle only allowable when followed by a certain amount of weeping and self-destruction as penance. We never talk about women who decided to give birth in those situations as making the less ethical choice. Birth is by default seen as morally superior and self sacrificing, when there are a number of situation where it is actually the unethical choice.

I obviously still think women have the right to choose either way. Forcing a woman to give birth or get an abortion against her will is so unethical it trumps the other arguments about ethics, at least in my mind. But I hate whenever I find a thread in 2XC where a woman says “I don’t feel guilty about my abortion…is something wrong with me?” No, nothing is wrong with you…something is wrong with our culture.

[Xipe Totec]

1. Given the way the question is posed, the answer is obviously yes.

Is abortion ever the MORE ethical choice over giving birth? Of course it is.

But that's not really the issue, is it?

The question is who is in the best moral position to make that call? The mother, or some clueless bastard who has no skin in the game.

[Politicalboi]

2. I think it's terrible

To bring an unwanted child into this world. If the mother isn't ready, abortion should ALWAYS be there. And she shouldn't feel bad about it. It's more humane for everyone.

[jberryhill]

3. I am a man. I do not pretend to know.

And as such, I am spectacularly disqualified from further pretending that if I had an opinion, it is one which should be imposed on women.

[CTyankee]

13. You have phrased it the way I believe it should be phrased by men.

My husband agrees with you completely. So glad you said it here...

[RC]

23. I am a man and all it takes is to talk to a few women who have had abortions, to understand.

Just because a man can't get pregnant does not mean he cannot understand. Can a childless woman understand? Then why not a man?
It is ultimately the woman's choice. It is her body and the choice, either way, will affect the rest of her life.
Saying a man is incapable of understanding abortion is a cop-out and a putdown of men.

BTY, I raised my two daughters, from the ages of 3 and 5, mostly by myself. (Mama moved out and left me with the girls) They are in their early 30's now. The youngest is graduating with a 4.0+ Civil Engineering degree this month.

[joshcryer]

4. Doug Stanhope thinks so.

Can't say I necessarily disagree.

[burrowowl]

5. And what about anacephletic fetuses?

eclampsia etc.!?

[LadyHawkAZ]

6. Yes,

every time a woman chooses it.

There are no ifs, ands or buts.

[RZM]

8. I don't think it's the right choice 100 percent of the time

I say that from experience. I know people who would give anything to go back and not have an abortion. I respect a woman's right to choose and think abortion should be available to anybody who wants it. But it isn't always the right decision. Just because it should be freely available doesn't mean it's the best option every time it's chosen.

Sometimes people make mistakes.

[CTyankee]

14. The point is that women are moral agents. I have known only one woman who has

told me she felt her abortion was a mistake. It turns out that her husband talked her into it and regrets that she let him do that. If she had followed her real choice then she would have not done it. But pressure was applied ("it is not a good time to have another child&quot . It's sad that her choice wasn't allowed. It was her body and her conscience. I think he was wrong to override her.

[RZM]

16. That is very sad

In the cases I've observed, the man was splittsville long before the decision was made and he played no part in it. It was a decision these women took on their own and they lived to regret it.

I think the option should be there, I just take issue with the notion that it's always the best decision. Sometimes it isn't. Being supportive of abortion rights doesn't have to mean convincing oneself that it's the best path whenever it's taken.

[CTyankee]

24. I think it is interesting, tho, that our side is called "pro-choice." It is not

"pro-abortion" despite what the RW says. Our side is against the government forcing women to either give birth or abort. So we are on the side of moral choice and freedom of conscience. We can't lose sight of that.

[uppityperson]

15. Of course. Same goes for giving birth.

[TBF]

19. +1 nt

[RZM]

25. That's pretty much understood

Many times terminating the pregnancy is the best option. I was just taking issue with the argument that it's the best choice every time it's made, because it isn't. People make mistakes sometimes.

[rocktivity]

7. FORCING anyone to give birth -- or to NOT to give birth

Last edited Fri Dec 7, 2018, 05:23 PM - Edit history (2)

is NEVER ethical.


rocktivity

[dionysus]

9. sometimes yes, sometimes no, but the choice should always be available.

[BlueIris]

10. I don't waste time worrying about whether OTHER INDIVIDUAL's choices

are "ethical" or not.

[LASlibinSC]

11. My stars of course!

I'm sick of people on TV acting like women just willy nilly make this decision. It's their call. Just because there isn't a dramatic outpouring of emotion to everyone she knows doesn't matter it's her choice.

[Kath1]

12. Yes

It should be the decision of the woman and her health care provider. No guilt, no shame. This is 2012. As unbelievable as it may sound to fundamentalists and others, some of the most loving, caring and nurturing women I have ever met met have had abortions. They struggled with the decision and made the choice which was right for them. I have a child and she was by choice. She knows that and is very pro-choice, herself. The "ethical" decision is to do right by yourself.

[Live and Learn]

17. How about when God/nature makes the call?

And He/She/It often does; does that make God/nature unethical/ethical?

[Kalidurga]

18. Oh that reminds me of one of Carlin's routines

When he talks of all the fertilized eggs that somehow don't get implanted and end up on tampons. I guess god doesn't care about the sanctity of life.

[DiverDave]

20. Read 'Freakanomics'

and then tell me that abortion isnt a valid choice.

[MineralMan]

21. That question cannot be answered by anyone but

an individual woman facing that decision. None of us can comment about ethics on another person's decision about this.

[lunatica]

22. Is it ethical to force one's ethical standards on a woman's right to choose?

I would say no.

[musical_soul]

26. I used to be pro-choce......

But this inside of a woman's body is a person, not a bunch of tissues.

I realize there are many situations to make a woman want to have an abortion. Domestic violence, poverty, etc. However, ask yourself this. Would those situations make it okay to have an abortion if the baby was already born? No. It wouldn't, so why would it be okay before birth? That comes back to the argument of it's not a person. If you believe it's not a person, then I respect that belief. I can understand why one would think that something that can't feel or hear would not be a person.

However, consider this. They have all their major body parts after weeks of pregnancy, and it's growing more.

I used to be one of these people for choice until the 9th month. I figured that the government could screw things up for women even then by limiting what was considered to be life endangerment. When I came into special education, I got a different picture. I realized some of the kids I was working with would have been aborted if they were still in the womb for some women. You look at these kids (even the so called vegetables), and realize they have a personality. They're a person. They had that personality by at least the third trimester of pregnancy, I'm sure.

My next concern is the slippery slope that because we allow abortion, we should allow other things.

http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/04/12/medethics-2011-100411

Okay, I don't post often. I will say I voted for Obama last election. Bye.

[ldf]

28. well, consider this...

i appreciate the journey you have made from pro-choice to anti-choice (even though you say every woman should have the right to make that decision themselves...)

i have made my own journey. i barely scratch the surface here, but...

take a look at the planet from space.

it is beautiful, it works its own way through time.

it balances itself. as the environment changes, it adjusts. animals, fish, adjust. they balance themselves. the balance takes care of itself. it is a horrific process, nothing more than a giant food chain, but the balance is achieved and the planet continues.

the one thing that destroys this planet is humankind. we do nothing but pollute, overpopulate, exhaust resources, waste resources.

in that process we soil our own beds for profit. we use and abuse others for profit. where profit exists it is hoarded until only a few have it, at the expense of all others.

no. we are an infection. we are the worst thing that ever happened to this planet. we will eventually destroy it. it will recover, but only after we have also destroyed most, if not all other living beings through our pollution and overpopulation, resulting in their extinction.

if you want to bring religion into this mix, your "god" is omniscient, all-powerful, and all-knowing.

"he" knows all. "he" knew damn well what "he" was creating, and what we would do, upon creation.

sounds like one sick m***er****er, to me.

also consider this.

our survival will only continue by procreation. if two people procreate by replacing themselves, the resulting two procreate, and their procreations procreate. two people, in their life time, can, conservatively (only having two children), result in an additional 16 people in 60 years. and that is if we only replace ourselves. (my totals may be off, it could be more.)

now imagine every two people doing that. the entire population of the planet quadrupling in three generations...

it is no wonder that "god" decided that would not be feasible and became the biggest abortionist of all, by causing miscarriages. (should i add that thingey? would i mean it?)

just something to think about.

bottom line... we are the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to this planet. being struck by an asteroid a mile wide would be natural.

there is nothing natural about us, or what we do to ourselves and each other.

at most, all we can do is try to get through each day as it comes, preferably treating others like we would like to be treated.

then we die. and that is it.

i don't have a problem with that. it is what it is. i don't have to make up fairy tales to justify it.

it is rather depressing, but it has also set me free.

I also do not believe quantity trumps quality. life is hard enough with all faculties intact.

what if you were to give those disadvantaged a choice AFTER being born? would you be willing to let them make their own decision to say enough is enough, and end it? or are you afraid of what their choice would be?

just my .02 worth.

[musical_soul]

31. As George Carlin said....

the planet is going nowhere, WE ARE.

Yeah, we are going to destroy ourselves through destroying the planet and it's all our fault (either that, or Jesus will come back if you want to talk religion).

As for God himself, I'm sorry you feel this way. The thing is he created us with free will (unlike most of the other species), and we've made some bad choices. Note that word of choice. Are you for free choice or not? Because that's what God enabled us with, and that's why our planet is suffering. Truth is we DO have a choice after birth. Many people commit suicide because their is bad and they think it won't get better. Sad, but true.

So instead of giving people the choice to abort their unborn, their born, commit suicide, or commit suicide to save the planet, why not actually become a loving species that looks after our own? Why not work with government and our own communities to help the poor and the suffering? That's the choice that God and the original Democrat party wanted us to make.

[uppityperson]

30. You can't have and abortion if "the baby is already born", that is called murder

Do you believe in a woman having the right to a legal, hygienic medical abortion ever? Any time limitations or medical reasons?

Do you believe women should have the choice, or should not have the choice? Should all pregnant women be mandated giving birth, or attempting to do so, no matter what?

[musical_soul]

33. If the woman's life is in danger....

then she should have the right to abort. And I think life endangerment should perhaps be broader than direct harm. Maybe if the doctor determines that having the baby will cause permanent health damage, shortening life or in cases where the mental distress actually makes the pregnancy dangerous. I think abortion is okay in those cases.

I think perhaps allowing it on demand in third world countries where maternal mortality is still high is justified. At will abortion that results in over a million a year? No. We wouldn't kill our born children for the reasons abortions are usually done. It's not right to kill the unborn either. Over a million abortions a year is too many, way too many. It's not right, and if this gets me banned, then so be it.

I see Planned Parenthood in your sigline. I admire the work they do for women regarding other health issues. I do think if abortion were ever made illegal that they would live on helping women. This abortion stuff is not right though.

[uppityperson]

34. So you don't think early abortions should be allowed unless the woman's life were in danger?

Do you think there should be laws prohibiting abortions unless the woman's life is in danger, or is it ok to have the law as it is?

My mother said she would never have an abortion and hoped none of her kids would either, but fought to keep them legal so we could if we felt we needed it.

In her case it was she wouldn't do it, but wanted it legal. What is your opinion? Illegal always or keep it legal as it is but don't have one?

[Iggo]

27. Yes.

[ismnotwasm]

29. Of course

Its called maternal moral authority. If an individual woman calls her fetus her baby, it's her baby. If an individual woman called her fetus the equivalent of a parasitic tumor, than that's what it is.

As far as individual circumstances, many women risk their lives because of particular conditions of pregnancy to bring their baby to term. This is NOT 'more' ethical than the woman on, say chemotherapy or myfortic or kidney dialysis or the myriad other situations that place a woman's health and life at risk who choose to terminate.

Bottom line, a woman could be perfectly healthy and simply choose not to continue the pregnancy. This is just as ethical as any other circumstance.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Any question of "ethics", "morality", etc, should be left entirely to the woman.

If she wants advice from any quarter on those questions then she, and she alone, should seek it.