General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEdward Snowden Is Acting Very Strange Inside Russia
Andrei Soldatovs beat is Russian spies, which is a hot topic for a new cold war. As editor of agentura.ru, an online watchdog of Putins clandestine intelligence agencies, he has spent the last decade reporting on and anatomizing the resurrection of the Russian security state, from KGB-style crackdowns on dissent at home to adroit or haphazard assassinations abroad.
Most recently, Soldatov and his coauthor and collaborator Irina Borogan broke serious news about the extent to which the Federal Security Service (FSB) was surveilling and eavesdropping on everyone within slaloming distance of the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. Soldatov has just emerged from a writerly purdah, which has seen him complete his latest and forthcoming title with Borogan, Red Web: The Struggle Between Russias Digital Dictators and the New Online Revolutionaries. He spoke to me via Skype from Moscow recently about the latest Russian hack of the White House, the Boris Nemtsov assassination, the Boston Marathon bombings, reshuffles in Putinist spyland, and why neither Edward Snowden nor Glenn Greenwald will agree to be interviewed by him.....
I know youve tried repeatedly and creatively to get an interview with Snowden. Hows that worked out?
Its still impossible for Russian journalists to interview Edward Snowden. Its also impossible for foreign correspondents based in Moscow. I tried different tactics to talk to him. We had the strange exchange of remarks in the Guardian when he commented my remark on him and I commented on his, so I tried to use this to send him a messagehey, maybe we can talk directly? It failed. When I was in New York, I tried to talk to a guy from ACLUBen Wizner, Snowdens attorneyand I told him, Okay, you are not ready to arrange a meeting in Moscow but maybe from your office in New York I can talk to Snowden in Moscow. No answer. I also told him and other people Id interview Snowden for my book and that this wouldnt see daylight for seven, eight months, thinking maybe it was a timing issue. But it was the same story all the time: No, I was told. I also put some requests to Glenn Greenwald. I got no response. I thought that was strangeif its all about Snowdens personal safety, why Greenwald cannot talk to Russian journalists from Brazil?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/13/edward-snowden-is-acting-very-strange-inside-russia.html
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)... that Snowden won't talk to a reporter whose beat is russian spies given that Snowden is not a Russian spy (or any kind of spy)? Why would Snowden associate himself with that?
This sounds like the media is pissed off that Snowden isn't giving out interviews left and right to every two bit reporter that comes calling.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)You should watch it. The interview with John Oliver was good too.
Arcadiasix
(255 posts)If he wasn't he'd be in Switzerland, Belize,or somewhere like that. He has spilled his guts to them.
marmar
(77,047 posts)Arcadiasix
(255 posts)He's been pumped for intel. They want as much intel as they can get on our sources and methods. He's a traitor.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)ugly isn't it.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)what it says. If you go into the military, you get a security clearance. It does not give anyone fantastic knowledge of everything in the spying world.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Arcadiasix
(255 posts)Do you honestly think he hasn't handed classified information to China and or Russia? If he has, and I think he has that is treason.
Arcadiasix
(255 posts)We'd do whatever we had to do to get it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They let him stay there. Hard to believe it was out of the goodness of Putin's heart. So it is a good possibility.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)from Russia if what you claim was really true. After all, they've had a year to debrief. Snowden is nothing but a PR coup to Russia.
Oh, and "Ivan"?
What? Are you like 70 years old?
Arcadiasix
(255 posts)I suspect he is. He should hang. ASAP.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)given nothing to the Russians.
But I won't stop you from drooling over your death fantasy. In fact, give me more. Please describe in detail your imaging of Snowden's death from hanging. From his last words and then the hood being brought over his head to the grave solemnity of the spectators and that sweet sweet vindication of his dangling feet.
And your personal triumph. USA USA USA.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)jmowreader
(50,524 posts)When you post things on the Internet, as was done with Snowden's information, anyone can get it...you know, like Russian and Chinese spy agencies.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)jmowreader
(50,524 posts)The issue of the person who posted the information is immaterial. When he stole all the information that he did and released it to journalists, he had to have known it would end up on the Internet.
treestar
(82,383 posts)to every country on this planet. Yet nobody seems to criticize him too much for THAT. That could have been dangerous.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Don't hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel
newthinking
(3,982 posts)we were on free republic. ugh
MattSh
(3,714 posts)Sad...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)our sneaky system of snooping on Americans and the world, remove it from our system and take it out of the country without the slightest suspicion on the part of the company he worked for. He is obviously a rather quiet, shy man. Unless the Russians can read his mind via mental telepathy or through some other supernatural or very advanced technical method, they don't know a thing he knows that he doesn't want them to know.
Snowden is not a spy. He was not a spy. He is a patriot who realized that our government was dramatically violating our Bill of Rights, especially the Fourth Amendment but other Amendments as well to say nothing of the separation of powers principle that underlies the Constitution.
Snowden is a US patriot in my view. I assume that he has not changed in that regard. He was a patriot when he left the US and remains a patriot.
It is those who spy on Americans without a warrant based on probable cause and specific as to what and why a search or seizure is justified who are the traitors to the US Constitution.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)and ultimately Russia because they're the only two countries powerful enough to oppose the US, not to mention they have the only two spy agencies on earth who are capable of foiling the CIA with reasonable assurance.
Imagine Belize and Swiss intelligence agencies trying to resist the CIA lmao.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Really? That's your evidence? I worry for our country when I see this kind of reasoning by people.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)with a Russian would reveal how little Snowden may know about Russia. I'm just making a wild guess.
On the other hand, assuming to the contrary that Snowden is in Russia, he probably would not want to be associated in any way with a Russian reporter or possible critic of the Russian government that is protecting him. That would not mean that he would want to be associated with the Russian government in any way either. It would just mean that he would not want to either offend or befriend too much the country that is hosting him. Putin appears to be secure, but how secure is he really.
We should not forget that Snowden is a very level-headed, rational person. He will play it safe and stay out of Russian politics considering how smart he is. The reporter cited in the OP is involved in some way in the political game within Russia. No wonder Snowden doesn't want to talk to him.
These are just my guesses. I do not know Snowden at all. I have not seen Citizen 4 but I did read No Place to Hide by Greenwald. People may not like Snowden. People may disapprove of Snowden. But one thing is certain. He is a very brilliant young man. And what is more, he is very rational. I repeat that on purpose. Brilliant and rational. He will not be drawn into controversy that he believes is unnecessary or that he believes serves no moral purpose.
Whether you agree with him or not, he revealed what he revealed because he believed he was revealing crimes. I agree with him. Others disagree with him. But his decision to act as he did was one of conscience and not one of greed or egotism. That is very clear from Greenwald's book.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)daring to report on *their* surveillance, spying, hacking, and other cyber stunts, and Snowden doesn't think he's worth talking to??
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)talking with a dissident journalist in Russia is not worth both their lives.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Snowden has a vested interest in ensuring people don't think he was motivated as a spy, but as his duty as a US citizen. It would be easy for folks to spin thinks if he got into the whole spy thing.
Snowden is a whistle blower with the intention to alert the American people. He is not a spy with an intention to aide our enemies. I'm not sure how anyone following his actions could come to any other conclusion.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)It's different!
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)The neo-cons rule our world.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I've seen no evidence of that. No excuse for the mass surveillance. I'm grateful to him.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that when people claim that the Bolivian President's plane was grounded due to fuel gauge problems, as was heartily suggested is as false then as it is now.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164458
I'm not certain what the origin of the absolute hate you and others have for Snowden has as its genesis, but it isn't a foundation in truth-telling.
Would you like to revisit that the Bolivian President's plane was NOT grounded because the US thought Snowden was on the plane, or are you going to tell everyone that believed it was dumb back in 2013 is still wrong in 2015?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)When you wallow in infantile power fantasies and some nerd comes along and cleans your clock in public, goes all over the media to tell his story, and ends up hiding out with the current enemy state, you do get pissed, you are that sort of person.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)there's this effort to gin up sympathy for him. People here don't like what he did, or don't think he should get all that lionization. I think he ought to face his charges. That doesn't have to mean I hate him.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That is how we can be certain that your thinking is wrong. Snowden is not and was not a Russian spy or an unwitting tool. Snowden is and was a whistle-blower on illegal activity by the NSA, activity that violates your and my basic rights pursuant to the Bill of Rights in our Constitution. Snowden also pointed out that the NSA was violating the the separation of powers that is the principle underlying our Constitution.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)a friend and asset. And Snowden's question to Putin certainly put Putin on notice that Snowden does not buy any claim by Russia that it does not actively snoop on its citizens. Remember. Snowden is a brilliant fellow.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)and I am firmly of the opinion that he likes to rub it in, based of some comments he has made like "It is too bad when you lose, but oh well you have to move on" or something like that, after the Debaltseve debacle.
He has a very dry sense of humor, which I recognize, if you see ...
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)And it is becoming increasingly clear that you know very little about espionage.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)hack's phone call?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)So gold that Snowden himself has praised him...Funny that he doesn't think enough of him to grant an interview...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/18/vladimir-putin-surveillance-us-leaders-snowden
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)when it was all the rage to claim that the Bolivian President's plane was landed due to fuel gauge problems.
Luckily, I'm here to remind them of the things they thought people were stupid enough to believe.
I mean, seriously?
SERIOUSLY?
Oh, my brain fell out, and I don't remember any of that episode.
Time to claim that emoticon back.
Cha
(296,735 posts)elias49
(4,259 posts)Please.
Cha
(296,735 posts)"Hes clearly being exploitedafter all, many repressive measures on the Internet in Russia were presented to Russians as a response to Snowdens revelations. For instance, the legislation to relocate the servers of global platforms to Russia by September of this year, to make them available for the Russian secret services, was presented as a measure to assure the security of Russian citizens personal data."
By Putin.
another snip//
"What I find interesting about this is that in December of 2014 Snowden, when asked about his security situation at the Amnesty International event, said, My securitys great. I live a fairly normal life, I ride the Moscow underground when I go about day to day.
Thus hes withdrawn the only plausible reason for why hes not transparent here in Russia. So whats the reason to be so secretive? There is some problem with logic here. For instance, I would understand if he says, Look, I cannot comment on Russian surveillance, this is not my war. Instead, he asked his question about Russian surveillance. And he is not transparent. I just dont get it
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Very interesting. Really, Cha, you are an intelligent person
spend a moment or two researching Michael Weiss. He is everything you are against your entire Democratic life. Without a doubt, he'll be writing about Hillary, and it will be disgusting and I'll be sure to point that out to every person who has recommended this post.
It really is upsetting that the rightist of the right wing is cited on this board and recced as well.
Cha
(296,735 posts)his interview with Andrei Soldatov.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)to 1-2 million deaths of Iraqi citizens. FOR NO FUCKING GOOD REASON.
Apparently, you trust Michael Weiss in regards to Snowden.
Yep. No clue there at all. Just a well respected honest journalist doing his honest journalist job. According to you.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)and entirely devoid of truth or substance.
See Blue Tires other most recent OP trying to desperately gin up faux poutrage about Snowden.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026490544
The desperation is reaching crazy levels. All innuendo, no facts. Poor things. It's driving them to post stupid shit.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)him to provide the evidence that he brought up anything AT ALL related to his current Snowden bashing post... keerikits.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)They are constantly contradicted yet wail about how they arent.
Its sad and pathetic and isn't swaying anyone.
Im not going to reply here anymore. I won't be complicit in bumping such ridiculousness.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Some of them aren't very bright. Sorry to be such an intellectual snob, but it's the truth. They have never been anywhere, haven't read much, don't understand the Constitution, and don't like questioning. It's their fate. They can't help it. I try to be patient and understanding and explain things, but sometimes it is so difficult.
You'd think that they would notice that Snowden has been in Russia or wherever he is for a long time now and the world really hasn't fallen apart. No great secrets have been used against us. We are just more aware of the fact that our government is not our friend or at least that the NSA is not our friend and that we are all suspects all the time. Also, Obama claims that he has changed the surveillance process so that a warrant will be issued to actually acquire our records. I suspect that is not true, that he has not changed a thing. But at least I think there was some acknowledgment on the part of the government that the NSA's methods of capturing so much information on utterly law-abiding people was a violation of the Fourth Amendment and other provisions of our Bill of Rights. So Snowden has accomplished a lot.
neverforget
(9,436 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)MattSh
(3,714 posts)Just saying.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)that is okay.
treestar
(82,383 posts)very strange. He cares so much about transparency. So he should be condemning Russia's lack thereof too.
elias49
(4,259 posts)Response to elias49 (Reply #24)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Every other day, BT is starting a new thread along the lines of "I've got that bastard this time", and it's always, ALWAYS some minor little thing that no one else gives a damn about. Now we know he's a traitor because he won't speak with the Geraldo Rivera of Russia or whatever. Note that there's no real source material excerpted--just one guy talking about how he couldn't get access to Snowden or Greenwald.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Since this Russian reporter was in New York and was willing to talk to Wizner, an ACLU attorney.
I think that Wizner knows that Snowden has spilled his guts to the Russians already, which is why he is afraid of Soldatov.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that the reason the Bolivian President's plane was grounded was due to "fuel gauge problems".
It had *absolutely* nothing to do with the US wanting to grab Snowden at the first opportunity.
Played.
It tickles the shit out of me how you were played by someone you think so low of.
When you play the Game of Thrones, gentlemen and ladies.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I don't even know why you mentioned Game of Thrones.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I like you, I like Randome and I like MsAnthrope, but you three are on a damn mission at this point to deride, degrade and detest Edward Snowden.
I understand your points, but the fact is that many of the things that you three have claimed as ludicrous are TRUE. I realize that you have a blazing, infinite hate for him and his "crimes", but maybe you should give it a fucking rest, already.
You yourself posted the little gem that the US was the one that grounded the Bolivian Presidents plane because there was the idea that Snowden was on it - which everyone back in 2013 denied. Do I have to dredge up that classic thread again?
I think I will.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164458
One of the best threads ever on DU3.
And every single person that said it was lunacy ... has been proven absolutely right.
neverforget
(9,436 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)For me, all else is
a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Y'all throw all the shade on Greenwald and Snowden you want. None of the accusations, insinuations and implications about them, tin foil hat or not, hurt my feelings. They are adults. They did they what they did for whatever reasons they did them. They are not my brothers or my sons. I didn't pay taxes to them to protect my interests and my rights.
Moreover, who lines up for and against Snowden and Greenwald could not be more obvious or more consistent with positions on every issue. It's a fucking joke.
Nothing anyone says about Snowden and/or Greenwald, however, is going to alter one tiny iota the fact that the 4th amendment was secretly erased from the Bill of Rights by people to whom I did pay taxes to protect my rights and my interests. And, barring some disaster and the creek don't rise, the government is going to be around one hell of a lot longer than Greenwald or Snowden.
IMO, that is the issue on which we all should be laser focused, not how pure or how black the hearts of two private, mortal citizens are. And if the motives of Snowden and Greenwald mean more to anyone than that issue, it simply could not possibly be more obvious why. No clue who y'all think you're fooling or about to convince.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)about to unleash another bombshell and they want to get their discrediting in early.
They discredit themselves with this thread.
It's kind of hilarious when you think about it. No No No it didn't happen that way, oh wait it happened that way after all, and no no no not because of the reasons you think, but yes yes yes for the reasons we think until they have to go ...
No no no, it didn't happen that way, it happened this way.
It's like watching a dog chase its tail.
merrily
(45,251 posts)has DU ever really let up?
It's like watching a dog chase its tail.
Tires them out so they can sleep better. Or are they trying to tire us out, so we sleep better?
I, mean, Snowden did what he did over two years ago.
When the discussion needle moves sharply and drastically, I might look more at where it moved from than where it moved to.
For example, when the US government moved against Cliven Bundy after something like 20 frickin years, the discussion needle moved suddenly. I looked at what the headlines had been during the prior few weeks.
When you do something like that, you may see something interesting, you may not. But at least you didn't get your head jerked around mindlessly.
Where is that whole Bundy thing now, anyway?
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)It's that utterly predictable lineup that always make me laugh, too. How transparent can you get.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Sounds like he doesn't particularly trust Russian media or reporters who have reason to suck up to the Russian government to keep their ability to report from Russia.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)It was strange, though, that Oliver was mostly on his side but I don't think Snowden appreciated it when he did something few journalists are willing to do these days -be objective.
When Oliver said he should own up to the fact that there was a fuck-up that revealed intelligence secrets, Snowden seemed gobsmacked. He may have seen Oliver's interview as an 'ambush' when it was anything but that.
And Snowden showed up more than an hour late for the interview. It's just supposition on my part but I wonder if paranoia plays into that and if it will only get worse as time goes on.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)The thing is, this discredited claim was made about a video that everyone has access to. So while the fixer crew was able to lie to a few people who didn't watch the video, most everyone who did came away wondering what the hell the anti-Snowden people were talking about. You guys hate him with every little fiber of your beings, so much so that you don't see how ridiculous some of the accusations start to look after awhile. You're too invested in seeing him go down, and this results in behaviors many don't even realize they're displaying. But please do keep putting forth more creative theories.
randome
(34,845 posts)Everything Snowden/Greenwald have published has avoided asking the question whether the NSA's capabilities are used against American citizens. The articles are mostly bait-and-switch with a hyperbolic headline but then nothing that indicates the NSA is doing anything but what they are supposed to do -monitor foreign communications.
If Snowden finally produced a 'smoking gun' of some sort to indicate deliberate malfeasance, I would have no problem supporting him.
But he hasn't. And after 2 years, it looks like he never will.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)You're doing yourselves more harm than your target at this point. Seriously... for your own sake... just stop.