Blame yourself for no challenger to Hillary

[Yavin4]

Last edited Wed Apr 15, 2015, 12:38 PM - Edit history (1)

What have you done to build a strong progressive movement in America? What have you done to organize your fellow Americans to support progressive politicians and progressive ideas? What?

No, knocking on doors at election time is not enough.
No, registering a few people is not enough.
No, donating a few dollars is not enough.

What I am talking about is becoming a precinct captain. Running for local offices. Encouraging other progressives to run for office. Organizing your fellow workers to unionize.

IOW, what have you done to build a progressive movement that would generate a progressive candidate?

Say what you want about the conservatives, they have done exactly that, and their movement is well represented in this campaign by Cruz, Walker, Rubio, etc.

--On edit--

I've seen a theme throughout this thread about the big money behind conservatives and that is true. However, that same big money wants immigration reform as well which is something that the Teabaggers hate. Who's winning on that one? The Teabaggers are. The Republicans won't go near immigration because of that.

So, no, big money is not the be-all-end-all that many make it out to be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Let me get this

And some of this too.



These narratives are so well, damn cute and entertaining.

Ah yes, and of course, this.



Now I am set to watch this.

[Katashi_itto]

54. I got me some waffles too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. I'm allergic

but one of these days will have to do gluten free waffles and gluten free fried chicken, Been told repeatedly that this is a great combo, but I could not go to waffle house to try it.

I would never tell somebody to just get waffles, but... at least this thread has proven highly entertaining and predictable too.

[Katashi_itto]

82. Agree!

[Doctor Who]

83. You have to give it a try...

I always heard about this too. Went to a wedding where one of the hordervers (sp?) was a silver dollar sized waffle w/ a piece of maple glazed fried chicken on it. AMAZING!!! Now anytime I make fried chicken i throw a couple eggo's in the toaster to have with it. Give it a try, you won't be sorry.

[peace13]

2. Or....

Never mind...any appropriate response to this would break the rules here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Why are you seemingly disparaging keyboard activism? /NT

[morningfog]

4. Aw shucks, it coulda been me to defeat the Clinton machine!

I could of had a V8!

[Maedhros]

6. Okay, I admit - it's all my fault.

Please let the rest of DU off the hook.

[demmiblue]

13. Thanks for taking one for team!

[whatchamacallit]

7. Must be it

[brooklynite]

8. That sounds hard...couldn't people just write another blog post?

Maybe complain that the system is rigged by "TPTB"?

[whatchamacallit]

16. Lol

I'd be curious to see your easy 5 point plan for random individuals wanting to create an alternative political system from scratch. Something more specific than "do stuff".

[brooklynite]

23. Oh, I would absolutely endorse the OP...

...with the proviso that politics is hard and long and you don't get instant gratification. But that's a philosophy I think a lot of people aren't prepared to subscribe to. The number of people here who WANT an alternative to Clinton, but won't apparently do anything to find one, speaks to that.

[whatchamacallit]

27. Please instruct us on the proper way to "find one"

[brooklynite]

31. Ever talked to the candidate of your choice? I have.

At the convention in Charlotte, I reached out to Brian Schweitzer (no contribution needed) and was able to set up a face to face meeting encouraging him to run if Hillary didn't.

Ever organize a nonprofit group? I have.

Contact like-minded friends. Use social media to find more. Build a mailing list. Create a website. Organize and use the strength of your group.

Or, just stay here and complain some more.

[whatchamacallit]

41. That's great

really. Would I be mistaken in assuming you may have access and connections that are above average?

[brooklynite]

45. I don't think I ever gave a dime to Schweitzer.

Perhaps I was seen as a prospect, but the bottom line is that this is the political system we have today. You can play in it to the extent you're able (ultimately, candidates still care about votes more than money), or you can give up and say it's hopeless.

Have you actually tried?

[whatchamacallit]

46. Yes, but

aside from the money, some of us move in circles that allow more opportunities to be politically influential, no? The average joe isn't very plugged into the scene. Not making excuses for inaction, just saying what seems like a viable path for you may not be for everyone.

[neverforget]

49. Some of us are just poor slobs who can't get our Democratic Congressman to respond with a letter

after you call their office or otherwise contact them. Then there are people like those you are responding too, that have money and the connections that come with it. They get responses and action because they have the money. Our system is driven and greased with money and those that have it, grease the skids. We just get to vote.

[Yavin4]

64. Thank you. The rank and file teabaggers have the same dilemmas

That doesn't stop them, and they have candidates that represent their views in this election.

[Rex]

78. 'politics is hard and long and you don't get instant gratification'

GOOD ONE!

[CTyankee]

62. Here's what I do: watch Morning Joe, go on DU...

then I'm pissed off for the rest of the day...this, according to my husband...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

80. Or maybe we could attend salons

That's what all the real Democrats do--shove caviar down their gullets in order to bring progressive change.

[brooklynite]

93. I'm meeting with Democrats for multiple offices...

I contribute money where I think it will make a difference...

I volunteer where I have the opportunity...

I talk to candidates and PROSPECTIVE candidates to encourage policy decisions...

What do YOU do?

[think]

9. Lloyd agrees /nt

[madfloridian]

10. Those conservatives have big money behind them...big big money.

I have not noticed any billionaires on the left coming forward to help us build a movement.

We did all that and more for Dean's campaign. Our local groups then shunned us.

[think]

12. Much of the same big money is pushing Hillary /nt

[madfloridian]

17. Yes, and there seems to be no significant money for "the left".

We donated so much to the Dean campaign. I would never do that again, not like that. Right now I am blocked at his Twitter feed (as well as other public school advocates).

If I thought there would be sufficient big money behind Sanders or someone like him, I would donate again.

[AtomicKitten]

35. mmmmm, floor pie

[BainsBane]

14. Absolutely, real reform takes work

dedicated hard work at the local level. That is something that the Tea Party has done, which is why they have been effective. Many here expect they can sit back and complain and politicians will deliver them what they want. That isn't how it works.

I've said similar things several times, and it's been received as badly as your comments are. It's easy to point the finger at the party and candidates, not so easy to work for change. We could use this space as a forum for offline activism rather than spending our time targeting one another for disagreeing on this or that political figure.

[madfloridian]

19. The Tea Party had groups like AFP, and rich folks like the Kochs and Rick Scott.

They did not just pop up accidentally. Their big funding started with the health care town halls where everyone screamed at the speakers.

Organized by big money.

[BainsBane]

21. be that as it may

They turn out to local party events and continually exert pressure. They are committed, and they ensure that Republicans incorporate their agenda. That isn't because of lobbyists but ordinary, rank and file Republicans who demonstrate their commitment on a regular basis. We make all kinds of excuses for doing nothing, and the results we get are just that, nothing.
If what people want is to complain, they are on the right path. If they want to see some actual reform, it's not going to happen unless they are willing to get out and work for it.

[Chathamization]

58. Brat was outspent 40 to 1, and he still defeated the establishment incumbent N/T

[Nay]

88. That was a completely different type of election, with lots of off the wall shit

happening. First, Eric Cantor has been pissing off the district's Republicans for years, basically by blowing them off and by being Jewish. He was arrogant as hell in all his dealings with them, so they convinced Brat, a local professor, to be their challenger in the Pub primary. Now, in VA, ANYONE, not just Republicans, can vote in the Repub primary. So, naturally, a lot of Democrats voted for Brat in the hopes that he, not Cantor, would be the challenger in the general election. No one had to pay any money or do anything to bring Dems out to vote for Brat -- to us, it was a heaven-sent chance to get rid of Cantor. It gave us a chance to run our own Dem against an unknown Pub (instead of the former incumbent Cantor) and actually have a chance of winning the election.

Brat ran with $1.5 million. Trammell, the Dem, had half a million, so funds in the general were 3 to 1. Brat won 60% to 38%.

Yes, Cantor way outspent Brat in the Pub primary, but the Pub voters in this district were really disgusted with Cantor so they came out to vote for anyone but Cantor. And some Dem votes for Brat didn't hurt -- Dems hated Cantor, too, and saw a way to possibly get him dumped.

[Chathamization]

94. That seems to demonstrate that you can't just buy an election, and if the voters don't like you

you're out, no?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. The Tea Party has three candidates representing them in the Republican primaries...

Cruz, Paul, and Rubio....


They don't seem cowed by John Ellis Bush.

[Yavin4]

65. Exactly!!!!

Thank you!

[AnnieBW]

15. I Voted for Martin O'Malley - Twice!

He's been the best governor Maryland has had in a while! And, he's a real progressive!

Don't get me wrong. I want to see a female POTUS. I'm just not that keen on Hillary after her unsecured server debacle.

[frylock]

18. fuck. this. shit.

conservatives haven't done jack krap but accept massive donations from the Kochs, and done their bidding in turn. there is no fucking grassroots movement on the right at all.

[woo me with science]

22. Fascinating. Yet *another* deliberately baiting post by the "defenders" of Hillary.

Such a fascinating pattern:

How corporatists on both sides are working hard to alienate the Democratic base and elect a Republican
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6508212

From the DCCC "Accept Doom" email campaign of the midterms, to the relentless stream of deliberately baiting, blaming messaging like this, I don't think we have *ever* seen such a transparent and relentless campaign by corporate politicians and their mouthpieces to depress Democratic enthusiasm for the party and suppress Democratic turnout.

Corporate politicians want a Republican in next time. It is becoming increasingly clear that the plan of corporatists in both parties is for Hillary to lose. This is why:

IMO we're being set up for a Republican win by both sides.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6229978

...
Corporatists on both sides are working hard to set the stage to elect a Republican next time, because eight years of corporate Democratic rule have opened too many eyes to the fact that the predatory corporate agenda continues no matter which party is elected. That awareness is dangerous for the PTB.

They NEED to alienate the base and get a Republican in office for awhile so that corporate Democrats can pretend to be against corporate/warmongering/police state policies again. They hope that the country will forget all this silly talk about oligarchy and go back to believing that the only thing wrong in Washington is that a Republican is in office and we need to rally to get the Third Way Democrats back in again.

They are TRYING to demoralize and alienate the base. We saw it in the DCCC "Accept Doom" email campaign. We see it in the gratuitous attacks on traditional Democrats every single day by supposed Hillary supporters. Corporatists in both parties are doing everything possible to enable a Republican win....The truth is that we live in a post-partisan, united oligarchy now, not a democracy...

[font color=red]***************************************************************************************[/font color]
[font size=3]We misunderstand our corporate politicians in 2015 when we assume that their goal is always to win. That was the old system, democracy. In the new system, oligarchy, the goal is to use the two parties you own in whatever way will best protect and advance the corporate agenda. [/font size]
[font color=red]***************************************************************************************[/font color]

Red vs. Blue = Oligarchy Theater for the masses.

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Drilling along the Atlantic Coast? Both parties support it.

[daredtowork]

30. Wow - Oligarchy Theater

Thanks for laying it all out in one post.

[DJ13]

33. Excellent post!

Thank you.

[MrMickeysMom]

43. Rec this post, man...

I'm up late, I have been sick for a week and I have to go to bed to get up again, but let me say this.

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS THIS THIS

Also, let me say, or re-state, because I've told this story here before, that I've run and won local elections four different times, which means I've served as a Democrat WITH other Democrats who, like the above explanation, were for the same thing, and NOT for my progressive voice.

Once you kill yourself doing this, you begin to realize why so many people don't think there IS a choice anymore. Also, no good deeds go unpunished.

So, to the OP, BEEN THERE, DONE THAT and am getting ready to see how quickly people are going to learn this time around.

People are willing to work hard, but are leaders willing to do the right thing? Everything in my experience tells me that more around me were systematically seduced, rather than worked to keep speaking truth to power. When enough people do THAT… we'll get somewhere.

I hope it's not too late.

Thank you, woo

[Katashi_itto]

56. Awesome post!

[Octafish]

60. Bookmarked.

Thank you for standing up for the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

[polichick]

75. Thank-you!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. To be fair very few people got involved in organizing to the level you suggest...

It's hard enough to get people to even vote.

[think]

26. Thanks for belittling those who knock on doors, donate, & register voters.

That's real cool....

[morningfog]

32. Oh sure, you can knock on doors but can't be bothered to run for president yourself, can you!??!

How dare you not be gracious that you get the privilege to vote for Hillary!

[Rex]

81. Yeah that is about the funniest/saddest load of garbage I've seen posted here!

IF YOU don't like it, run for POTUS yourself! Says the select few that make far more money than the rest of us. OR THEY pretend to...take your pick, because neither option helps out the working poor.

And they were against OWS (imagine that) and demand corporate welfare! Demand it!

[Doctor_J]

28. conservatives "movement" was accomplished by buying every radio station, tv station, and

newspaper in the country, not by knocking on doors. If I had dimons money Bernie Sanders would be a candidate to. Jesus get real

[appalachiablue]

50. +10 Michael Weiner Savage, Hannity, Rushbo on radio & local imitator spinoffs do much of the work.

And Fox TV, 24/7 and accessible in every state- in stores, motels, offices, car dealerships, at home or in your car. What does the left have? If lucky local newspapers, FSTV, some very good news/issues websites, and a few liberal radio programs if you're in the right area. There's no comparison in the media which is the main propaganda venue. Where does the left meet? apart from cyberspace? This makes me ill sometimes-

[Luminous Animal]

29. Oh lord. I hate these kind of kind of posts. EVERYTHING IS ENOUGH. PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY CAN.

AND TELLING THEM THEIR EFFORTS ARE NOT ENOUGH DISCOURAGES THEM FROM DOING WHAT THEY FEEL THEY CAN DO AND DISCOURAGES THEM FROM DOING ANYTHING MORE.

EVER.

I am a person who is engaged in organizing near everyday. AND TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEIR SPORADIC EFFORTS ARE NOT ENOUGH IS REMARKABLY BONE HEADED.

A fucking window or yard sign is enough. A two dollar donation is enough. A signature is enough.

EACH AND EVERY CONTRIBUTION BIG OR SMALL BUILDS A MOVEMENT.

[brooklynite]

34. Did you succeed in your goal? No? Then it's not enough.

I've worked on plenty of campaigns. I've supported hundred of candidates. Most of them haven't won. I keep up the effort, because I want to succeed. I don't let other things get in the way of that choice, even while working, or doing home chores.

[Luminous Animal]

36. I've succeeded in some and lost in others. I'm 57 and have been doing this since I was 12.

Not once have I ever encountered a successful leader of any sort of campaign retain enthusiasm for that campaign by cutting others contributions down. You, personally, may have the stamina or focus of purpose to give beyond and above. But you or I are not every one else. You CAN do what you CAN do. And others CAN do what they CAN do. And what the feel they CAN do is just enough and greatly appreciated and making them feel that they DID NOT do enough ordinarily means that they WILL DO NOTHING AT ALL the next time you come knocking at their door.

[brooklynite]

38. Fair enough...but don't then complain that someone didn't do the job for you

I see far too many instances of people who profess to be politically engaged, but don't seem to do anything beyond blog posts to likeminded believers, or perhaps "sign" an online petition that achieves nothing.

[Luminous Animal]

39. Blog posts and petitions are good, too. Thomas Paine was just a blogger.

His greatest contribution to the U.S. revolution was his publishing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Without getting into this food fight...

While I disagree with the OP's thesis it's not fair to hate/blame HRC because she has no serious challengers....She's paid her dues since she was "Clean For Gene" in 68 and a TX organizer for McGovern in 72.

The nomination isn't a life achievement award but she has worked hard to be where she is now.

[Yavin4]

67. I'm not criticizing Hillary. She has every right to run. She has earned her dues.

Unlike the folks that critique her, she's been in the political trenches since 1992. She's worked her ass off to get where she is today, something that the folks that criticize her have not done.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. To be the man or woman you have to beat the man or woman

[brooklynite]

47. Thomas Paine didn't write his material to circulate to people who already agreed with him...

DU is skewed significantly to the left of the average Democratic voter. These aren't the folks you'll need to convince.

[msongs]

37. all of the above. thank you for asking nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Reaching for my second bowl, any want some?

[MrMickeysMom]

44. Unrec… read reply #43, please to see why...

That is all.

[joshcryer]

48. I called for this two years ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251317676

No body listened. No one cares. Now Clinton is going to walk right into the nomination barring some major issue. It's a very run of the mill campaign at this point.

[JoePhilly]

63. Yup ... and I'm post #15 in your earlier thread ... predicting exactly where we'd be today.

And in that post, I point out that I'd been saying exactly this same thing for about 2 years at the time of your post.

The perpetually disgruntled spent 2011 calling for a primary of Obama, with no candidate in mind.

Then a few more years spent whining about how Obama isn't liberal enough.

And now we're right where we predicted we'd be.

I think some of these folks expect this "acceptably liberal" alternative candidate to just magically appear.

[joshcryer]

85. Yeah, I reread our discussion.

We really nailed it. The most frustrating thing back then was people pulling the "too early to talk about" card. We weren't allowed to discuss it. So it was self defeating in a way.

[Art_from_Ark]

52. Oh, great-- another drive-by OP

[Scuba]

53. Yeah, it's my fault for not donating a few hundred million to a super-PAC.

What a cheapskate I am.

[mmonk]

55. Former precinct chair, state delegate, and campaign volunteer here.

I won't accept responsibility for an awful unrepresentative election system. The people currently don't have that much power.

[Katashi_itto]

57. +1000

[Bettie]

61. State parties don't have power

there certainly isn't anyone listening to small county parties, even at the state level.

The people setting the agenda are not those of us on the bottom of the pile. We can offer suggestions, but no one up at the top cares, they've already got their agenda set and it isn't really about human people.

[bettyellen]

66. Except when it comes to reproductive rights, education.....,,

[mmonk]

70. We have platforms that we decide, gotv efforts,

become national delegates, etc. The inference was there were no real progressive candidates due to our lack of activity or efforts.

[mmonk]

72. But I agree the top doesn't care because it has been captured by the Third Way

and Rubinomics which has led us to this point as an ineffective party where it concerns the people.

[RobinA]

59. I Was All Set

to run for President, but my public sector job won't allow it.

[Chan790]

68. Well...

Knocking on doors at election time. GOTV. I coordinate GOTV efforts for my town party.

Registering a few people. Define a few? I stumped to register 200 in 2012 in my town of 9,000.

Donating a few dollars. Okay, you got me. As a professional activist making less than $14,000/year most of my adult life...I haven't donated a lot of money. As a business owner of a business failing to thrive...it's not on the horizon either.

Becoming a precinct captain. I'm on my town Democratic committee. We don't have precincts...it's a suburban village in CT. One voting precinct.

Running for local offices. Appointed commissioner of two town committees. Exploring primary candidacy for 1st. Sel. in 2017.

Encouraging other progressives to run for office. All I do all day long most days.

Organizing your fellow workers to unionize. Tried. Didn't get support from organized labor to organize coworkers. Got fired for the effort.

What else you got? I got energy to spare if it can get rid of Centrist-ass Fake Democrats.

[treestar]

71. Agreed, there is so much hopelessness about the money

as if all we can do is complain about it. You then see the sentiment that the big money people "give" us the candidates and of course those candidates aren't pure enough. Finding other ways to raise money, ideas on how to get across without as much money, none of that is ever considered, so I am thinking the complaining is all they want to do.

[bunnies]

74. Some of us are too fucking busy busting our asses to pay our goddamn bills.

Most of us, actually. So piss off with this shit.

[Vincardog]

76. I believe there are charts showing how very often the candidate spending the most money wins.

[scscholar]

77. I'm confused

Why are people so angry about the chance of not having to suffer under a Republican? Do you people want a Republican ruler, because this is how you get a Republican ruler.

[Smarmie Doofus]

79. She's GOT an announced opponent; doesn't she?

Lincoln Chafee from Rhode Island.

W. Sanders likely to follow.

Then maybe O'Malley and/or Webb.

And ... if there IS a god.... Warren.

And lots of us do PLENTY , btw.

Why would you assume otherwise?

And btw... if you think big money is not decisive then you should run YOURSELF.

For President of Crazyland.

[SomethingFishy]

84. I see, so in-between my two jobs, my handicapped wife and my 3 kids,

I should make time to find a challenger for Hillary. Or quit my jobs and run for office.

What world do you live in? It must be nice to have spare time to dedicate to politics.

A lot of us don't have the luxury of time. You might want to jump down off of that high horse and get a clue as to what life is like for most folks in America.

[Yavin4]

86. And the Teabaggers have the time?

They're working class just like you are.

[Nay]

89. Most of them are retired or on disability. nt

[99Forever]

87. ...

Worst.














Narrative.













































Ever.

[H2O Man]

90. We blame you.

It's this OP's fault.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

91. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

So sure, it's my fault that there are no progressive challengers to go against Hillary Clinton. But by the same token, since you support her, all of her positions that veer off to the right, toward the direction of the Republican Party, are YOUR fault. Why have you subjected us to this, any why haven't you apologized for what you've done? Explain TPP and why you've gotten us to this point. Explain being in bed with Goldman Sachs. Justify what you've caused.

Alternately, you could instead conclude what others of us have--that your OP is completely without merit, and that Hillary Clinton is running much farther to the left than she did last time around, and that's because of progressives like me making noise and changing the tone in this country despite your best efforts to the contrary.

I've told others here, and I'll tell you now: I don't take correction from Republicans, or from anyone off in that same direction, i.e., significantly to the right of me. If I look way off to the right at the "class picture", I see Rubio and Rand Paul in the back row with Michelle Bachmann and Louie Gohmert, Dick Cheney strangling a child somewhere in the middle row with Paul Ryan looking on, and centrists occupying the front row. Yeah, you're politically closer to me than the rest of those jokers, but I'm most assuredly not in that class picture.

[KoKo]

92. Been there and done that. And, so have many others here posting who are Active Dems...

This is an unfair charge against those whom you might see as anonymous "Keyboard Clickers" here on DU but, who are out there in "Real Time" connecting and doing what we can. The problems we've seen with the "system" are what we post and try to discuss on DU. Or used to, anyway.

[L0oniX]

95. The 1% is the real enemy.