Holy Shite - traditional parties in Greece wiped out

[malaise]

Over 60% of voters are against the bail out (according to exit polls quoted by the BBC)
A two-fer - France and Greece.

[aquart]

1. "Wiped out"? Replaced by ...what?

[malaise]

2. No one party can win

Lots of small parties have picked up seats. According to BBC - per exit polls, the two big parties have less than 35% of the vote

We should soon know what's going on in Italy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370
<snip>
Early results in Greece's parliamentary election suggest the two main parties have suffered dramatic losses.

With 11% of the vote counted, centre-right New Democracy is in the lead with 22%, down from 33.5% in 2009.

Centre-left Pasok is in second place with 16%, down from 43.9% in the last elections. Syriza, a left-wing coalition, is in third place with 15%.

[aquart]

7. This is amazing.

I'm an American. We have two parties. The idea of all those dinky little...I'm stunned but I don't know how to take it in.

[eridani]

29. In a parliamentary system, factions make coalitions AFTER the election

We have to do the same thing before the election.

[malaise]

32. ReTHUGs do with Grover and ALEC

[HiPointDem]

3. far-left & far-right. the usual.

After nearly 40 years of dominating the Greek political scene, the centre-right New Democracy and socialist Pasok saw support drop dramatically in favour of parties that had virulently opposed the tough austerity dictated by international creditors.

The latest figures showed New Democracy leading with between 19 – 20.5% of the vote, followed by the radical leftist party, Syriza, with as much as 17% and socialist party Pasok with between 13 – 14 %. And for the first time since the collapse of military rule, ultra-nationalists were also set to enter parliament with polls showing the neo-Nazi Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) capturing as much as 8%.

With the nation wrestling its worst crisis in modern times, the big winner appeared to be Syriza, which had campaigned ardently against austerity and was poised to become the second biggest party in Athens's 300-seat House.

A Metron analysis poll showed the leftists gaining as much as 18.5%, more than the mainstream Pasok lead by former finance minister Evangelos Venizelos, who negotiated the latest €130bn (£105bn) loan agreement reached between Athens and the EU and IMF.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/06/greek-elections-exit-polls-parties?newsfeed=true

[sabrina 1]

4. HOpefully people who actually represent the people. And if that happens in several countries,

hopefully the end of the criminal 'Austerity' policies imposed mostly by the Banks and their 'elected' government employees. And hopefully a beginning of restoring justice, eg, arresting those responsible for the disaster they created across the globe.

But I'm just hoping right now. Governments who ignore the people, as these have, will eventually have to be answerable to the people. Hopefully, once again, sooner rather than too late.

[LarryNM]

30. Hopefully the Banksters will allow it to be settled at the Polls

Otherwise, for better or worse, it Will be settled in the Streets.

[caveat_imperator]

35. I hope the bank goons keep worrying about that beyond November.

[sabrina 1]

5. Good news, Sarkozy is gone. Maybe Europe can recover from the far right takeover of the past

few years.

[aquart]

6. I never heard of Hollande. When I read he was Socialist, I started screaming.

I usually follow the British elections thru a source on Twitter who just wasn't around this time. So I got none of her RTs for the European scene, either.

But I have no clue what it means...except that people are really ticked off.

[malaise]

8. Very interesting was that Cameron's party and the LibDems

took serious blows in their local government elections last week. Of course new labour is anything but socialist and there are no words for the LibDems outside of elitist political whores.

[sabrina 1]

16. I think from what I have read about Hollande that he is not all that far to the left, but the

defeat of Sarkozy is a signal from the people, and hopefully Hollande will prove to be a real agent for change, which is badly needed, worldwide. He has been given a chance, let's see what happens. But Merkel has lost her main partner, Sarkozy, in her drive for Austerity, a policy that has devastated Europe and of course is favored by the Global Corps and Banks.

But with Greece also sending a similar message, I feel more hopeful that the people have finally had enough of their leaders ignoring them.

Analysts are saying that the Greek election is for more important, with a lot more at stake.

Regardless of what may happen, for today imo, these two election results are the voices of the people finally being heard.

The message to the technocrats, the neo-liberals, both here and there should be 'do not mention the word Austerity' or phrases like 'share the sacrifice' etc. etc. And that alone is a good thing, for now.

I don't know that much about Hollande either, doesn't seem to be a radical, more moderate from what I've read so far. But I'm so glad Sarkozy was defeated

[malaise]

9. There are some very good signs

The climax between neo-liberals and all others won't be long in coming.

[sabrina 1]

22. I hope so!

[xchrom]

10. Du rec. Nt

[Gregorian]

11. Merkel may be in an interesting position. I love this.

[TBF]

12. Amen - the workers have spoken. nt

[derby378]

13. God, I hope this doesn't backfire

The Greeks need all the help they can get. My best wishes for them.

http://www.mixcloud.com/derby378/music-for-governments-to-default-by/

[marmar]

21. Is neoliberal-imposed austerity in exchange for aid really help?

Argentina didn't think so, and it seems to be working out quite well for them.

[liberalhistorian]

28. I don't think it can get any worse for them.

You have workers who haven't been paid in months being expected to keep working not knowing when they'll be paid, and millions who can't find work no matter what they do, and yet they are all expected to pay higher and higher taxes as part of the "austerity" bullshit regardless of ever-increasing unemployment, while watching the politicians still rake in their own wages and perks. This vote isn't surprising at all, in fact, I'm surprised the government hasn't been run out on a rail before this.

[girl gone mad]

36. Yes, that's the real question.

Why has this charade continued to the point where fascism could gain a foothold.

[DevonRex]

14. If I had my way, our constitution would be changed

to a parliamentary system. It is much more fluid, much more reactive to the people.

[malaise]

15. Truthfully I think what is more effective in Parliamentary systems

is the fact that we don't have a fixed election date. Many of us can demand early elections and kick them out. On the other hand representatives in parliamentary democracies sell us out with the same regularity as occurs in your presidential system. Some of our systems also allow a no confidence vote.

[DevonRex]

17. True.

There is another huge flaw in our system. In trying to get rid of parties, our founders thought if they played no role in government then they would have no role at all. Well, that didn't turn out so well, did it? All it did was ensure that we have only 2 parties with clout since we cannot form coalitions.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. Yes, so frustrating!

[malaise]

24. Government and governance are complex matters

The truth is that the constitutional power relations only make the representatives responsible so that the 'special interests' get away with murder literally and figuratively.
On the other hand the notion of 'Cabinet government' means that the majority of the Cabinet members (as in heads of departments/called Ministers of Government in the Westminster Parliamentary system) have to be accountable to the electorate hence they must come from the elected chamber of parliament. Now that is good because we can remove them when the corruption starts, but it means that the same folks who represent constituencies are running important and critical sections of the government so they do a bad job at both. Additionally the special interests get through the same way they do in the American non-elected Cabinet appointments.

My bigger worry these days is that civil society and a plethora of non-elected stakeholders are involved in this neo-liberal notion of governance and are accountable to no one. Thus we have weak parties who are more accountable to us, but an awful lot of power brokers who are accountable to no-one.

[DevonRex]

18. Forgot to rec

so I'll give it another kick.

[Kaleva]

19. This might lead to the end of the European Union.

[Moostache]

25. There is no "union" in Euorpe...that fantasy died in 2008...

What there is in Europe is the same thing there is in America - plutocracy and a cabal of international financial terrorists who have yet to face justice for what they did. Hopefully, this gets the world one step closer to throwing off the current system in favor of one that is sane and increases equity and the health of all ecosystems instead of increasing inequity and destroying the planet's habitats in the process...

[harmonicon]

26. Not a chance. (nt)

[saras]

20. It all makes more sense if you get off the "left/right" spectrum...

the more parties there are - as long as they are distributed by issues and interests and not all forced onto one scale, the more different kinds of people it requires support from to get something done. Sort of like democracy biased in favor of diversity and cooperation.

America DESPERATELY needs a fairer election system. Multi-party, instant runoff, negative votes, something to fix the spoiler effect.

[harmonicon]

27. I think instant runoff is a must, but I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime.

The UK had a chance for it and completely gave it up - there was just no interest. I guess that most people just don't want change - any change.

[LarryNM]

31. + 1,000 n/t

[fascisthunter]

34. I am Starting to Agree More Than Ever

[fascisthunter]

33. People Band Together, hence socialism