I really think the TPP could spawn something huge.

[cali]

whether it passes or no.

By that I mean that it could unleash a broad and powerful movement.

If the TPA passes, there will be a 60 day period in which the agreement is accessible to the public.

I'm not going to try and convince anyone here how bad it is or why I'm convinced it's so bad. I've spent enough time doing that.
I know that people largely believe what they want to believe, what fits within their belief system and that facts have little to do with that.

But the TPP opposition is growing. It has the potential to be something transformative within the body politic.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. It spells out what They want for Us . n/t

[cali]

2. the three chapters leaked- and they are important chapters

are less than encouraging.

Although we are only privy to 3 of the 29 chapters, I do think it's possible to extrapolate and come to the conclusion that this is a bad and dangerous agreement. Not only through reading the leaked chapters but through reading other leaked comment, leaked information about process like the names of entities and people who were granted access and input by the USTR, by commentary on the leaks by experts and by such folks as Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown who know more than we do about it.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. The only pertinent Truth we've got in the last 3 yrs,

all Leaks, or as one candidate has characterized " Traitor " . Thank you for your information, and thanks to the Traitors .

[fadedrose]

14. Cali,

Is there a link for the 3 chapters you've read? I read some a while back but not enough to be in favor of or totally against.

The only thing that Obama said the other day when the Italian PM was here was something like...

If we don't go along with this, China will make ALL the decisions and we will be left out with nothing done in our favor. Is this a euphemistic way of saying we are joining because we must stop China, not so much to help us?

I believe those who are against it, you didn't mention O'Malley, he is too, but what could be the reason that anybody favors it?

[cali]

15. yes,wikileaks has the chapters. I think public citizen does too

read some analysis and commentary on the leaked chapters. I found that really helpful.

National Security seems to be a big reason some support it- fear of China.

That's nutshell stuff, I know.

[Cal Carpenter]

31. And in addition to leaks and commentary, we can also consider history

It would be foolish to assume that this trade agreement will somehow be different than all the others that have happened. They all had the same vague rhetoric about 'environmental and worker protections' and leveling the playing field and yada yada yada but the real results never match the rhetoric.

Why people think this is somehow different is beyond me. Unless they genuinely don't know the history, but the track record is quite clear. I think it is hard for people to separate these sorts of things from the US 2-party, partisan framework and see that these are part of more global, economic trend. I don't know.

[aspirant]

3. It won't take much

for the $15/hour labor movement with union support to become informed voters.

Information on the TPP job demolition can be easily guided into understanding $15/hour means nothing if there are no jobs.

[orpupilofnature57]

5. I think it's a ploy like Woman eqaulity, watch this hand while I stab you . n/t

[bettyellen]

17. Equality for women is a ploy?

[orpupilofnature57]

23. No the fact that the same people who want to " Fast track '" the TPP,

care about Woman, Minimum wage or anybody but the 1% .

[bettyellen]

32. Ahh, just trashing DUers for not having your priorities....

Lol, you'd like them to shut up and blather on about the 1% and NSA because you know what's best for them.

[orpupilofnature57]

33. Ya, that's it .

[Jackpine Radical]

35. You asked for it, you know.

I understand what you're saying, but you left yourself so wide open to misinterpretation (willful or otherwise) that you could expect this result.

Now I'm gonna go duck from the incoming fire I've undoubtedly brought down on myself with this thread.

[mmonk]

6. I certainly hope so. I think a slow rumbling is aleady underway.

[cali]

7. Me too. In its infancy. Let's help it get out of its cradle.

[mmonk]

16. Will do as much as possible.

[truebluegreen]

8. I hope you are right...

but I no longer think there is a political solution to what ails us, nationally or globally. Our "elites", elected or otherwise, have failed the people all around the world. Their service to the rich has led us on a very dangerous path, economically and climatically, and I don't see any course correction in the near future...minus a catastrophe. And when the catastrophe befalls us it will be too late.

[cali]

11. I hear you. I hope I'm right too and not just engaging in fantasy

[Scuba]

9. K&R

[woo me with science]

10. I hope you are right.

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. and maybe that is part of the strategy?

[cali]

13. I sure the hell hope so.

[tomsaiditagain]

18. TPP is just another page

in the secret book about global order. Corporate planet rule is near and the authors are all members of The Bilderberg Group.

[cali]

20. whatever. snark I presume. read this, then address the issue.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/on-the-wrong-side-of-globalization/?_r=0

[zeemike]

24. CT is the trump card.

Expect it to be played often.

[cali]

25. yeah. ugh. most of those supporting this avoid me like the plague

I've spent a lot of time researching this and have a pretty good arsenal.

[zeemike]

28. I know you have and we appreciate it.

The truth will always be ignored by those who don't want to hear it.

[cali]

29. Perhaps I shouldn't say this

but republicans and conservatives don't have a lock on stupidity. And that's what some of it is.

and thanks for the kind words, mike.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

19. when people get fed up enough...

Is when they take action.

[daleanime]

21. The pool of discontent in this nation is deep and wide....

if the right candidate tapped into it, they could transform this world.




Run, Bernie, Run.

[whereisjustice]

22. There are so many Stepford Democrats. Politics is now a cult of personality. Meanwhile, backstage,

Wall Street is assaulting us like a drunken vikings.

We need to shut down the factory cranking out these robots of political convenience and apologies.

[kelliekat44]

26. Just some thoughts on this. Who are the world's holders of wealth, controlling world-wide jobs,

wages..etc? Most of it is held by our own corporate-person citizens. While we decry the loss of jobs to foreign nations we do so believing that those evil developing countries have done this to us and trading with them is trading with the enemy. When in fact, the jobs and low wages and horrible working conditions are owned and controlled by USA/EU companies whose greedy-corporate-corrupt-persons are the ones who SENT the jobs abroad, who continue to pay low wages in deplorable working conditions.

I contend that they are the same anti-union American and EU 1% who refuse to raise wages in their own country and who do not want to pay taxes for the greater good. And the biggest enabler for all of their economic evilness are the American consumers who really don't give a shit so long as they can get cheap goods, Apple watches and other goods made abroad by those cheap laborers. It is unchecked capitalism itself that continues to perpetrate this system along with the uncritical-thinking consumer.

We can decry TTP all we want and NAFTA and any other trade agreements. So long as the holders of most of the wealth continue to cater to ever more greedy stock holders (again ourselves) and do all that is possible to increase already obscene profits, whether or not TTP passes or fails does not really matter. The wealth-holders will win either way as they gleefully watch us go for each other's throats and place all the blame of either the President or the opposition parties.

And the proof is this...we already have the biggest wealth gap, lowest wages, and least amount of worker protections in over 50 years and the TTP does not exist. And it all started BEFORE NAFTA. It mostly began with "contracting out" government functions in the 80's and setting in motion that private contractors are the best way to screw unions and employees out of decent wages and benefits. Next it was extrapolated to corporations with huge workforces. And yes, automation played a part but not nearly as impactful as cheap labor abroad.

So ...here we are angry with the wrong people and focused away from the real problem.

[GoneFishin]

34. You are correct. But TPP is not about trade, it is about expanding corporate control over U.S.

sovereignty. Those greedy U.S. companies could not blatantly gain power over our state and local legislative sovereignty solely by ramming through federal laws mandating their demands. But they CAN under the guise of an international treaty with an investor state kangaroo tribunal run by those corporations' lawyers.

I may be overlooking something, but my immediate fear is that U.S. companies will turn the TPP on it's ear and use it to override democratic processes in the U.S..

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Maybe a rebirth of "Workers of the world, UNITE!"

The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks. Lord Acton

[G_j]

30. Don't forget Seattle '99

or the many World Bank, IMF and WTO protests that have happened around the world.

[stillwaiting]

36. If TPA passes we NEED to be willing, ready, and able to stand with right-wingers to stop this.

If we stand with them, we might have a chance at this, and it needs to be a HUGE movement.

If we stand with them and actually unite to stop the TPP, the powers that be will SHIT THEIR SHORTS.

[woo me with science]

37. K&R