First of all, can we answer these questions?

[kentuck]

How serious is the situation - political, economically, environmentally, and otherwise - in this country?

Do either of the political Parties look at this "situation" realistically?

Do any of the front-runners for the Presidency have a grasp of how serious it is?

Apart from Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, everyone else seems to think we are doing quite well and should continue on the road we are on. The sky is not falling and there is no reason to get hysterical. There is no reason to be concerned at all. We are on the right track. The government is working quite well.

Is that what we are supposed to believe?

Before we debate who should be President, shouldn't we debate whether or not we have serious problems that need to be addressed? Which is the "real" world?

[F4lconF16]

1. This is exactly what needs to be discussed.

A PM I sent to someone a while back:

I'm (not yet officially) a part of the International Socialist Organization in Seattle. So far, they have made a very convincing argument as to why the Democratic Party will not change anything, and our efforts are much better diverted elsewhere. Even if we work on a local level, the fundamental problems with capitalism remain, and the Democratic Party are very strongly capitalist. They have been a moderating force on radicalism for over a century now.

I firmly believe at this point that working within the system for reforms will only accomplish so much. And unfortunately, there are issues like climate change that we cannot afford to spend the next 50 years incrementally working towards change on. I also don't think we will ever be able to truly address issues of racial and gender equality while under the capitalist system, and within the party, and those are issues particularly important to me (and I certainly don't mean to imply that they are not to many Democrats on this board).

As of right now, I am not supportive of the Democratic Party beyond that of the most progressive candidates, and even then, I am hesitant, because they have a bad tendency to swing right as they move up the chain. Regular progressive candidates will simply pull away radical support.

This is why I will be devoting time locally. It's where I can make the most difference. However, I will not be doing so for Democratic candidates, by and large, if at all.I think working for campaigns for people like Kshama Sawant is much more effective. If we can't win, we can at least change the perception of socialism in the local area, and make it easier for future candidates to succeed. Then, if we lose, I will not spend my time working with the party--I will be attending meetings, protesting at councils, fighting things like the creation of the new youth jail here.

I simply don't believe that the Democratic Party holds any chance at long term success. We have tried that, and we have been shifting rightward for centuries. Even within the more liberal wings of the party, there is support for privatization measures and other horrible policies. I am too worried about my future to be patient with them.

[ND-Dem]

4. "shifting rightward for centuries" = ? Since 1815? The democratic party was only founded

in 1828, so not sure if that's a typo or what you had in mind?

[F4lconF16]

8. Yeah, I really meant decades.

Thanks. Though I'd say the rest of it still applies, they have been a force for deradicalization for over a century. Just not the shifting rightward part.

[daleanime]

11. +1

[okaawhatever]

41. Then why are you on DU? You're clearly not here to support the Democratic party or its

candidates. You're here to try and convert people to socialism and radicalism. No thank you.

[F4lconF16]

45. I've been on DU before I was a radical socialist.

I'm here to discuss politics, and I come here in particular for the people. There are a lot of incredibly insightful, intelligent, and friendly posters here, and I can learn a lot from them. Though I don't agree with the basic construction of the society proposed by the Democratic Party, my practical politics for the most part line up with the generally compassionate views held by liberals.

Democrats span a range of views, from heavily corporate authoritarians to democratic socialists. I view things much the same way as the left wing of the party, despite favoring a different economic structure. We all believe in equality (or should: there are Democrats with some highly conservative views on things like gender issues). We all believe in the ending of the military industrial complex. We all believe in changing the prison-system and ending the drug war. Etc., etc. etc..

Many of the methods used to change things in our society are the same. I will happily work with people fully committed to working within the party, because we need to be able to cooperate to fix any of this mess.

I'm not here to convert people of my views. I'm here to discuss and learn, and in the meantime, I'm going to be honest about what I think is true.

[RecoveringJournalist]

2. K & R

[Jackpine Radical]

3. OK, I'll play.

1) Desperate, plunging toward calamitous.

2) If they do, they must be afraid that it's a non-starter with the public.

3) Yeah. It bothers the shit out of me that they're sitting around in the Officers' Quarters debating whether they can let the steerage passengers use the cracked china while the whole damn ship is headed for an iceberg.

[ND-Dem]

5. +100

[orpupilofnature57]

6. Apart from the two people you mentioned, everyone else is on

The Take, and drunk with sycophancy all around them, more and more until the sun is specially tinted to their liking .

[kentuck]

7. Lip service for populist policies...

..until they are in power. I could be wrong but I don't think so...

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Yes, History would agree .

[jwirr]

17. I have problems with think like that - Al Franken and Keith Ellison are from my state. How do I fit

into this?

[orpupilofnature57]

19. I was speaking about possible canidates, I love Al .

[jwirr]

22. I know - but I have a problem with all posts like this because I actually have some really good

Democratic representatives in MN - especially since we are getting rid of Bachmann.

[orpupilofnature57]

29. Again as I said I was responding to a question posed, here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026528352

[kentuck]

26. Al Franken is a good Senator.

But he is one of the exceptions. There are never enough of the "exceptions" to challenge the status quo, it seems? That is why it is necessary to have the means to get rid of those folks that legislate against the interests of the people at large. If they could block you from voting, they would not hesitate to do so. Those people do not deserve our votes - no matter what Party they might be in?

[Enthusiast]

51. I believe they have the best of intentions. And there are others.

[GeorgeGist]

10. If California runs dry ...

40 million voices will be heard.

[jwirr]

18. If - when.

[RKP5637]

46. Yep, sadly, often the US only reacts to calamities. n/t

[jtuck004]

12. We have at least 3 generations on the ground that have been trained to drive, optimistically, into

the wall. Any expectation of a different behavior is likely a real misreading of the culture.

American exceptionalism. It has it's price as well.

[CrispyQ]

14. This:

We have at least 3 generations on the ground that have been trained to drive, optimistically, into the wall.

[CrispyQ]

13. The 1% are certain their cushion is big enough to pad the fall.

I think they see the planet's economy/ecology are in a world of hurt, but they are confident they will survive the crash. Then again, you see that attitude a lot on this site - that human ingenuity will save our collective ass. Sometime around 2003 I told my husband that we would be exiting this planet just in time. Now, I'm not so sure. Everything is accelerating faster than predicted.

I think the most stunning thing I've seen in the past 5 years is the video footage in "Chasing Ice" of the 75 minute calving event. Obviously they cut it to several minutes, but it was unfuckingbelievable. They superimposed a scaled image of Manhattan over the ice to provide some scope to the event. They even caught a whale in the vid, escaping the area. Google 'chasing ice, calving event' & be prepared to have your mind blown.

[NYC_SKP]

15. We have our choice between two flavors of shit soda.

One tastes a little less like shit, but both will kill us.

This is it for me, this year is the last chance to break away and if we don't, I fear we will have passed the tipping point.

Or, maybe we already have.

[jwirr]

21. I think we have passed the tipping point as far as keeping our lives going as they are. We are going

to suffer many of the effects of climate change but I don't think we are yet at the lets give up stage.

[Marr]

31. I think our last realistic chance to pull out of this using the status quo system was

Obama's first term. At his inauguration, it really seemed like he could seize the reigns and undo about fifty years of sliding rightward if he'd wanted to. He had tremendous popular support, and his rhetoric had resonated so strongly with a country that was truly fed up with right-wing, corporate crooks, from Wall Street to the White House.

He could've really changed things if he'd channeled that energy into liberal policy, but he chose instead to dissipate it quietly and go back to business as usual, propping up all the problem institutions and covering up their crimes.

[NYC_SKP]

33. It was the perfect storm for Republicans to let a Democrat win.

That person would be tasked with nothing less than saving the economy and, in doing so, helping the banks.

If he failed, they'd be partying and if he won it could still be spun as a failure because people forget how bad things were.

And, without a helpful Congress, there was little to be done.

We're better off economically, but our congress sucks even more now.

[kentuck]

35. I think the ship was just too big to turn around...?

The banks were scared about their survival. The stock market crashed all the way down to about 6500. Retirees and others lost about half of their savings in IRAs and 401Ks. No doubt, it was a time that called for daring leadership. We had a chance to fix it.

But that opportunity has passed, I fear. Perhaps it was just too big of a job for one man and neither political Party was able to muster the courage to fix the problems. Instead, they just joined forces.

[Enthusiast]

52. Yeah. He had the greatest mandate in history.

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But then................................[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[whereisjustice]

16. Hillary's sanguine campaign bullshit is going to set back Dem party for another decade

[NYC_SKP]

23. I'm surprised at how many think HRC is not only the best shot at winning, but a fantastic choice.

That's just really disturbing.

Like they'll forgive a whole hell of a lot.

Fandom?

I don't know, I just don't see anything good there.

[hifiguy]

34. The denial and blindness of those who have imbibed the Clinton Kool-Aid

borders on the frightening.

[Marr]

36. Yep. She has one thing going for her. Hoards of Wall Street cash.

Her politics alienate the liberal side of the party, and her persona energizes the right-wing. It's a lose/lose. The only way she can win is if the Republicans nominate a true lunatic who just isn't viable in national politics.

Admittedly, the odds of that do seem fairly high.

[99th_Monkey]

20. Actually the sky is falling

thousands of redux Fukashimas waiting to happen, climate change OUT of control, MIC/NSA/CIA/FBI/cops are IN control and have most of the money & guns, Democratic POTUS cramming TPP down our throats ...

Let's see, what did I leave out?

[NYC_SKP]

25. Clinton Feinstein types of Dems keep us in this state of madness.

The people who fight the status quo can be counted on your fingers.

[hifiguy]

37. The institutional Democratic Party is now wholly captive

of the greedheads and plutocrats who simply could not abide the religulous fly-eaters and bailed on the Repukes. They bought the institutional Democratic party bit by bit, and the salespeople were the DLC, their Turd Way successors, and they were led, first and foremost, by Bill and Hillary Clinton.

The party of Harry Truman, Hubert Humphrey, LBJ, JFK, FDR and RFK is deader than Dillinger today.

[NYC_SKP]

38. And, sadly, a lot of the "good ones" are beholden to Clinton and, by extension, to the 99%.

I am friends with Jennifer Granholm and she's come out as a Clinton supporter.

Warren has been able to be more guarded in her comments.

Thank God.

[hifiguy]

39. I knew JG when I was in law school.

She was my first boss in the legal profession when she was the editor-in-chief of the Harvard Civil Rights/Civil Liberties Law Review and I was a lowly 1L cite-checker.

[NYC_SKP]

40. She has a magical quality, sincere and genuine, passionate and dead serious, but always magical.

And, once bitten you're smitten, she's quite stunning to me in spirit and in her appearance.

I suppose she has off days, who doesn't.

[hifiguy]

42. The twin realizations that she was

both whip-smart and stunningly good-looking arrived simultaneously the first time I met her at a staff meeting.

[whereisjustice]

28. overflowing prisons, wall street crime, torture, fracking, drones and war, education/medical gouging

record poverty, record unemployment for blacks, minorities and the young, record infant mortality levels, wages stagnant or in decline, weakening wall street regulation (JP Morgan bank calling congress to demand passage of a bill?), oil drilling in protected areas, genetically modified foods without any requirement for labeling, off-shoring, food processing in China without proper inspectors, millions of jobs to India, China, ...

[99th_Monkey]

44. Stop it!

you're making my head explode.

But I guess I did "ask for it"

[whereisjustice]

47. lol, sorry couldn't help myself.

[Enthusiast]

53. That's what is so disturbing.

How is there even any support for the status quo? Propaganda is effective.

[NET]

24. It's really a simple answer why they think it's going well in this country

Because for them it is..

[whathehell]

27. There are a few other progressive dems -- Keith Ellison, Alan Grayson, Sherrod Brown,

but not as many as we need.

[Alittleliberal]

30. One of the things I looked forward to the most was

One of the things I looked forward to the most was one day becoming a father. I love kids.

I don't know how I could ever bring a child into this world anymore.

[hifiguy]

32. It is at the tipping point

where a descent into a new form of soft fascism/feudalism is almost unavoidable.

The media spew corporatist propaganda 24/7 because of the Telecom act signed by one B. Clinton allowed a handful of corporations to control all of the media. "Keep the sheeple dumb as dirt and pacified with pablum" is the motto of the corporate media.

The greedheads have bought all three branches of the federal government and a lot of state governments. Their goal is a new feudalism, stripped of the old obligations of the lords to the peasantry. Politics are now completely corrupt in a system where bribery is perfectly legal.

Financial inequality is growing at a pace unknown in modern history.

Jobs are being outsourced and offshored, which will be mightily intensified by the TPP.

Racism is running amok in this country.

Stark, staring religulous insanity is running amok in this country.

Ignorance and stupidity are running amok in this country.

Science is ignored, belittled and mocked in this country.

War is now a permanent part of the landscape for as far as the eye can see.

Everything down to the air we breathe will be commodified within 20 years if the plutocrats have anything to say about it.

The tattered remains of the social safety net are being deliberately destroyed in order to facilitate a significant die-off of "undesirables" by way of disease and starvation through "benign neglect."

The kkkops have been militarized because TPTB don't trust the uniformed military to turn on the citizenry should the need arise. The kkkops will massacre the citizens without ever giving it a second thought.

As a society, we are in just about the deepest shit imaginable and I see no way out.

[haikugal]

43. Sad to say I see the same thing. nt

[Enthusiast]

50. Facts are stubborn things, hard to ignore.

[Enthusiast]

49. What an excellent post!

"Politics are now completely corrupt in a system where bribery is perfectly legal."

And everything else too! We better read that last sentence again because it is the facts Jack.

[Enthusiast]

48. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

You nailed , kentuck!

There are two honest politicians in this race—Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

And the American people, those that know them, agree.

[Cleita]

54. I did post this in labor, but no one seems to like the idea.

Unions have been the big money behind our Democratic Presidential candidates. But, as they have dwindled since the fifties, those candidates turn to Wall Street for their funding and now they are owned by WS. They do some throwing of bones to their lesser donors, but mostly the working class and poor people suffer. So I suggested that instead of putting their money behind the lesser of two evils, that they should front their own candidate. The union presidents do the same job in administration and as executives for a democracy as much as the president of a country does. I like Leo Gerard, of the United Steel Workers, but he's Canadian. I think there are many other union leaders who are American and whom can qualify.

I liked John Edward's message. He spoke to the working class even up to white collar. I'm sorry he messed and maybe was a phony but but his message was real. Someone has to pick that up.

On edit I forgot to add that the unions have the money and people power to lead a movement. I hope they put that to work for a real populist candidate from their own ranks.

[Spider Jerusalem]

55. "Environmentally" is kind of a global issue

thinking of it in terms of "in this country" is kind of blinkered. And you can't really decouple environmental issues from the economy, either...not when the problems have economic impacts--ongoing drought in California affecting crops and so on, and eventually, possibly, leading to major population displacement for instance, or the fact that any transition away from fossil fuels is going to be very economically disruptive (but is also a necessary thing). The plan from most politicians in both parties seems to be "business as usual until that's no longer feasible", because there's no upside in honesty (telling people that their way of life isn't sustainable and their living standards are going to decline isn't going to win anyone votes). So it's essentially a lot of fiddling while Rome burns, meanwhile talking about fracking as a "bridge to energy independence" or burbling about some sort of generally impractical "science will save us" deus ex machina while relying on private enterprise rather than government-funded innovation to get there. The situation really calls for WPA-style infrastructure projects and a Manhattan or Apollo project scale program focused on carbon-neutral energy, but the political will just isn't there.

[Skittles]

56. I think our politicians are too wealthy and far removed from everyday life to truly understand

nor do I think most of them really give a damn

[Cleita]

57. "nor do I think most of them really give a damn"

You summed that up right. I do think they understand and also that they don't give a damn because it seems like the ship is too big to steer. There are a few, like Bernie Sanders, who can actually offer solutions, but no one listens to him except people like me who can't do a thing about it except maybe start a revolution and those hardly ever end well.