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marym625

(17,997 posts)
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:50 AM Apr 2015

Larry Summers  and the Secret "End-Game" Memo (collapse of the world economy)

I have discovered that many people are still not aware of this immeasurably important document and what happened because of it. Even though this article by Mr. Greg Palast was written back on August 22, 2013, it is just as important today as it was then. Maybe even more so.

Posted in full with permission from Greg Palast.

When a little birdie dropped the End Game memo through my window, its content was so explosive, so sick and plain evil, I just couldn't believe it.

The Memo confirmed every conspiracy freak's fantasy:  that in the late 1990s, the top US Treasury officials secretly conspired with a small cabal of banker big-shots to rip apart financial regulation across the planet.  When you see 26.3%unemployment in Spain, desperation and hunger in Greece, riots in Indonesia and Detroit in bankruptcy, go back to this End Game memo, the genesis of the blood and tears.

The Treasury official playing the bankers' secret End Game was Larry Summers.  Today, Summers is Barack Obama's leading choice for Chairman of the US Federal Reserve, the world's central bank.  If the confidential memo* is authentic, then Summers shouldn't be serving on the Fed, he should be serving hard time in some dungeon reserved for the criminally insane of the finance world.

The memo is authentic.

To get that confirmation, I would have to fly to Geneva  and wangle a meeting with the Secretary General of the World Trade Organization, Pascal Lamy.  I did.  Lamy, the Generalissimo of Globalization, told me,

"The WTO was not created as some dark cabal of multinationals secretly cooking plots against the people…. We don't have cigar-smoking, rich, crazy bankers negotiating."

Then I showed him the memo.

It begins with Summers’ flunky, Timothy Geithner, reminding his boss to call the then most powerful CEOs on the planet and get them to order their lobbyist armies to march:

"As we enter the end-game of the WTO financial services negotiations, I believe it would be a good idea for you to touch base with the CEOs…."

To avoid Summers having to call his office to get the phone numbers (which, under US law, would have to appear on public logs), Geithner listed their private lines.  And here they are:

Goldman Sachs:  John Corzine (212)902-8281
Merrill Lynch:  David Kamanski (212)449-6868
Bank of America, David Coulter (415)622-2255
Citibank:  John Reed (212)559-2732
Chase Manhattan:  Walter Shipley (212)270-1380

Lamy was right: They don't smoke cigars.  Go ahead and dial them.  I did, and sure enough, got a cheery personal hello from Reed–cheery until I revealed I wasn't Larry Summers.  (Note:  The other numbers were swiftly disconnected. And Corzine can't be reached while he faces criminal charges.)

It's not the little cabal of confabs held by Summers and the banksters that's so troubling. The horror is in the purpose of the "end game" itself.

Let me explain:
The year was 1997.  US Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin was pushing hard to de-regulate banks.  That required, first, repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act to dismantle the barrier between commercial banks and investment banks.  It was like replacing bank vaults with roulette wheels.

Second, the banks wanted the right to play a new high-risk game:  "derivatives trading."  JP Morgan alone would soon carry $88 trillion* of these pseudo-securities on its books as "assets."

Deputy Treasury Secretary Summers (soon to replace Rubin as Secretary) body-blocked any attempt to control derivatives.

But what was the use of turning US banks into derivatives casinos if money would flee to nations with safer banking laws?

The answer conceived by the Big Bank Five:  eliminate controls on banks in every nation on the planet  in one single move.    It was as brilliant as it was insanely dangerous.

How could they pull off this mad caper?  The bankers' and Summers' game was to use the Financial Services Agreement, an abstruse and benign addendum to the international trade agreements policed by the World Trade Organization.

Until the bankers began their play, the WTO agreements dealt simply with trade in goods–that is, my cars for your bananas.  The new rules ginned-up by Summers and the banks would force all nations to accept trade in "bads" – toxic assets like financial derivatives.

Until the bankers' re-draft of the FSA, each nation controlled and chartered the banks within their own borders.  The new rules of the game would force every nation to open their markets to Citibank, JP Morgan and their derivatives "products."

And all 156 nations in the WTO would have to smash down their own Glass-Steagall divisions between commercial savings banks and the investment banks that gamble with derivatives.

The job of turning the FSA into the bankers' battering ram was given to Geithner, who was named Ambassador to the World Trade Organization.

Bankers Go Bananas

Why in the world would any nation agree to let its banking system be boarded and seized by financial pirates like JP Morgan?

The answer, in the case of Ecuador, was bananas.   Ecuador was truly a banana republic.  The yellow fruit was that nation's life-and-death source of hard currency.  If it refused to sign the new FSA, Ecuador could feed its bananas to the monkeys and go back into bankruptcy.  Ecuador signed.

And so on–with every single nation bullied into signing.  

Every nation but one, I should say.  Brazil's new President, Inacio Lula da Silva, refused.  In retaliation, Brazil was threatened with a virtual embargo of its products by the European Union's Trade Commissioner, one Peter Mandelson, according to another confidential memo* I got my hands on.  But Lula's refusenik stance paid off for Brazil which, alone among Western nations, survived and thrived during the 2007-9 bank crisis.

China signed–but got its pound of flesh in return.  It opened its banking sector a crack in return for access and control of the US auto parts and other markets.  (Swiftly, two million US jobs shifted to China.)

The new FSA pulled the lid off the Pandora's box of worldwide derivatives trade.  Among the notorious transactions legalized: Goldman Sachs (where Treasury Secretary Rubin had been Co-Chairman) worked a secret euro-derivatives swap with Greece which, ultimately, destroyed that nation.  Ecuador, its own banking sector de-regulated and demolished, exploded into riots.  Argentina had to sell off its oil companies (to the Spanish) and water systems (to Enron) while its teachers hunted for food in garbage cans.  Then, Bankers Gone Wild in the Eurozone dove head-first into derivatives pools without knowing how to swim–and the continent is now being sold off in tiny, cheap pieces to Germany.

Of course, it was not just threats that sold the FSA, but temptation as well.  After all, every evil starts with one bite of an apple offered by a snake.  The apple:  The gleaming piles of lucre hidden in the FSA for local elites.  The snake was named Larry.

Does all this evil and pain flow from a single memo?  Of course not:  the evil was The Game itself, as played by the banker clique.  The memo only revealed their game-plan for checkmate.

And the memo reveals a lot about Summers and Obama.

While billions of sorry souls are still hurting from worldwide banker-made disaster, Rubin and Summers didn't do too badly.  Rubin's deregulation of banks had permitted the creation of a financial monstrosity called "Citigroup."  Within weeks of leaving office, Rubin was named director, then Chairman of Citigroup—which went bankrupt while managing to pay Rubin a total of $126 million.*

Then Rubin took on another post:  as key campaign benefactor to a young State Senator, Barack Obama.  Only days after his election as President, Obama, at Rubin's insistence, gave Summers the odd post of US "Economics Tsar" and made Geithner his Tsarina (that is, Secretary of Treasury).  In 2010, Summers gave up his royalist robes to return to "consulting" for Citibank and other creatures of bank deregulation whose payments have raised Summers' net worth by $31 million* since the "end-game" memo.

That Obama would, at Robert Rubin's demand, now choose Summers to run the Federal Reserve Board means that, unfortunately, we are far from the end of the game.

* * * * * * * *


There are many reasons this is still as important as it was when it happened.

Take, for example, the threat from Larry Summers to Elizabeth Warren in 2009:

After dinner, “Larry leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice,” Ms. Warren writes. “I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don’t criticize other insiders.


https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/04/29/stunning-quote-larry-summers-to-elizabeth-warren-in-2009-insiders-dont-criticize-other-insiders/

And more importantly, Larry Summers is a main adviser to Clinton on economic strategy.

*There are links in the article by Greg Palast that download documents. I don't know how to create those links here. If you are interested in them, please visit his website.
Original Palast article:
http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo/
250 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Larry Summers  and the Secret "End-Game" Memo (collapse of the world economy) (Original Post) marym625 Apr 2015 OP
I remember when this first came out. Greg Palast is one hell of a investigative journalist. Autumn Apr 2015 #1
what about others on her "team"? OKNancy Apr 2015 #3
The others on her team don't matter to me. Autumn Apr 2015 #6
+1000 marym625 Apr 2015 #20
So because others did it, he should be let off the hook too? Rex Apr 2015 #129
I wouldn't defend Larry Summers if someone held a gun to my head. There are those Autumn Apr 2015 #137
Well you can tell who read the article and who did not, it doesn't even mention HRC. Rex Apr 2015 #140
Yep, the article was about Summers and not HRC. Right, they would sell their own Mothers Autumn Apr 2015 #145
Would it please them if we list all the major contacts Summers has had over his career? Rex Apr 2015 #199
You are confusing me marym625 Apr 2015 #202
No you misread that, not mad at all. Just pointing out that Summers hands are all over the place Rex Apr 2015 #204
oh good marym625 Apr 2015 #206
Well I think that is where some of the heated arguing comes from. Rex Apr 2015 #208
Bingo! marym625 Apr 2015 #210
Do you remember Brooksley Born? She warned that the crash was coming in 98 Autumn Apr 2015 #223
Lordy, that's weak. (nt) Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #39
There is nothing left in the tank for them. Rex Apr 2015 #130
How should we know who exactly she is listening to the most? If this document is true and I see jwirr Apr 2015 #41
It's real marym625 Apr 2015 #203
The others on her team are likely insiders too. zeemike Apr 2015 #56
'Some people catch on to the game, others not so much.' Rex Apr 2015 #131
Why would she choose someone like Larry Summers, aside from THIS, which if Palast knows sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #146
Oh my God I had forgotten about Brooksley. Autumn Apr 2015 #151
Brooksley Born was right, she was a brilliant woman. Greenspan was so disastrously wrong, along with sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #155
Disgusting and yet they are embraced by the very ones we elect Autumn Apr 2015 #158
If I were running, as Hillary is, I would seek out Brooksley Born and others who were RIGHT sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #162
Thanks for the link! marym625 Apr 2015 #205
You're welcome Mary. That documentary was excellent and should be required viewing by sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #207
It's like a bad movie marym625 Apr 2015 #209
btw marym625 Apr 2015 #211
You will find it gripping, I think. I am going to watch it again but like you, not tonight. sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #212
omg marym625 Apr 2015 #213
I wouldn't assume that that is a 'young one' Lol! sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #214
I hope you are right marym625 Apr 2015 #215
They think it is awesome for us to argue back and forth Jesus Malverde Apr 2015 #185
+1 marym625 Apr 2015 #201
Thank you, Autumn marym625 Apr 2015 #4
His book, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy was one Autumn Apr 2015 #7
I have it marym625 Apr 2015 #9
Some people have an agenda to keep ingestigative reporting dead. They love these dumbass pundits Rex Apr 2015 #132
exactly why you never see him on US MSM. marym625 Apr 2015 #136
YEP. Always look for the people the M$M mocks and ridicules. They have a reason to be upset. Rex Apr 2015 #142
I read the memo QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #82
I read the memo when it came out. Larry Summers Autumn Apr 2015 #84
I am sure you did QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #86
You go right on ahead and stick with that Autumn Apr 2015 #88
Ok, tell me what the bankers had to gain by the collapse of the world economy QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #98
What have they lost? cui bono Apr 2015 #109
They did not gain anything, nor did they lose much unless QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #116
We're not talking about the "employees" of the banks. We're talking about the wheelers cui bono Apr 2015 #121
Employees of the bank include the officers QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #139
While reading the OP.., PosterChild Apr 2015 #124
Sounds like a Code Name: END GAME Octafish Apr 2015 #173
Ask Joseph Stiglitz about Larry Summers asking: 'What would Goldman think of that? ' Octafish Apr 2015 #172
I never said Larry Summers was a crusader for the common man QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #189
Banks having the chance to make more money is "the whole ideal of capitalism"? Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #224
In capitalism the goal is to get the best return on your investment QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #225
Jump Baby Jump Caretha Apr 2015 #230
You are funny :) Caretha Apr 2015 #229
Exactly! Carolina Apr 2015 #220
Summers is one of about 200 who have talked to her OKNancy Apr 2015 #2
That is encouraging. Hoyt Apr 2015 #5
There is much more to that article marym625 Apr 2015 #8
yes, I read the whole thing and the fact that it is not entirely complimentary OKNancy Apr 2015 #11
You realize that you did exactly that marym625 Apr 2015 #13
you see, I think your argument is overblown and hyperbole OKNancy Apr 2015 #16
I posted an article about a very important thing marym625 Apr 2015 #18
What is so unusual about the Memo? QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #105
wow. just, wow. marym625 Apr 2015 #107
I don't understand your response QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #110
What color is the sky in the world you live in? hifiguy Apr 2015 #141
Please tell me what you think unicorns have been telling me QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #156
So the Republicans are better??? QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #103
seriously? marym625 Apr 2015 #106
A socially conscious conservative does not exist in today's Republican party. QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #120
Maybe not marym625 Apr 2015 #123
I look forward to the primary, it can only help the Democratic party QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #150
That I will agree with marym625 Apr 2015 #157
it would be nice to get past personalities and focus on policy that matters nashville_brook Apr 2015 #22
Well said marym625 Apr 2015 #25
Yep. And issues, not candidates, mobilize. DirkGently Apr 2015 #33
If someone doesn't marym625 Apr 2015 #40
And especially if they are allowed another generation to continue their games. However, since both jwirr Apr 2015 #49
We need Bernie. marym625 Apr 2015 #51
Thank you. I am an avid Sanders supporter and I was thinking that we do have some good jwirr Apr 2015 #54
I hope he runs marym625 Apr 2015 #55
Me too zeemike Apr 2015 #61
Unfortunately, she won't marym625 Apr 2015 #87
+1 cui bono Apr 2015 #152
Center for American Progess is the think tank Podesta founded, no? He's on her team, too. merrily Apr 2015 #65
Yes. marym625 Apr 2015 #89
Add her obvious buddy-buddy relationship with Blankfein hifiguy Apr 2015 #143
"Mr. Reich is one of some 200 economists and academics who have offered Mrs. Clinton ideas and rhett o rick Apr 2015 #30
You have proof of that? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #37
Take the Credit Card companies' influence on the Bankruptcy Bill of 2002 Octafish Apr 2015 #67
An opinion piece...seriously? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #69
Read it and you'll see it's filled with facts, used to base opinion. Octafish Apr 2015 #77
I believe I have seen you have to spell out marym625 Apr 2015 #115
''The darkest night is ignorance.'' -- Gautama Buddha Octafish Apr 2015 #126
Thank you, again! marym625 Apr 2015 #133
That doesn't work either. cui bono Apr 2015 #144
When Hillary was Senator from New York QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #193
That makes sense. So, what do you think of the family ties to Phil Gramm and UBS? Octafish Apr 2015 #222
Proof? H. Clinton, even though running for president, has been very quiet about her rhett o rick Apr 2015 #68
+1000 marym625 Apr 2015 #38
Fairly clear to me. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #45
scary and sad is right marym625 Apr 2015 #48
I trust your evaluations of the situation in the US today. My question: Is this what those saying jwirr Apr 2015 #52
Welcome to my world. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #64
Thank you. I remember when it was possible to believe in humane values based on love, jwirr Apr 2015 #70
Love, nurturance, compassion, awe, all these basic life-giving emotions-- Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #73
I am reading "Sustainable Happiness" right now. Very good book about this. jwirr Apr 2015 #74
Indeed it is. YES Magazine is also great. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #167
You might find this interesting too: Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #188
Thank you it is on my list. jwirr Apr 2015 #194
I very much respect your opinions marym625 Apr 2015 #118
I don't especially disagree with you, Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #170
lmao! marym625 Apr 2015 #174
+1. Time to abolish 30 years of Reaganism, neoliberal economics, somehow- appalachiablue Apr 2015 #72
^^^^^+100000000^^^^^ woo me with science Apr 2015 #102
I feel very alone marym625 Apr 2015 #122
On that I think we are all feeling kind of alone and that is terrible. We are DU. We need each other jwirr Apr 2015 #168
When people start acting like bringing up legitimate issues is a bad thing marym625 Apr 2015 #169
That is very true. The gop is going to go all the way because they have nothing to lose. jwirr Apr 2015 #171
exactly marym625 Apr 2015 #175
That, too, is carefully cultivated. woo me with science Apr 2015 #178
I can see so much of that in my life. I am 73 live in a room in one of my grandson's home. He is jwirr Apr 2015 #186
Here's Chomsky Links if you want to check out...and his You Tube Videos/interviews: KoKo Apr 2015 #227
Thank you. jwirr Apr 2015 #228
Truly powerful TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #247
Yep. I come here woo me with science Apr 2015 #179
They've got the guns marym625 Apr 2015 #181
Every day, bring at least one more along. woo me with science Apr 2015 #183
Yes, we sure do marym625 Apr 2015 #184
I think the "sappifying" of discussion of love, nurturance, etc. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #176
I think you're right. woo me with science Apr 2015 #177
I guess they know the value of their own souls, Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #180
Have I ever told you woo me with science Apr 2015 #182
Flattery will get you Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #190
Let's call it what it really is woo me Caretha Apr 2015 #231
...! KoKo Apr 2015 #226
Everyone needs to read this.. sendero Apr 2015 #10
couldn't agree more marym625 Apr 2015 #12
I have never been a good "capitalist." chervilant Apr 2015 #21
I'm so sorry marym625 Apr 2015 #27
Reach out if you need. Plenty of us aren't too secure economically & otherwise nowdays. appalachiablue Apr 2015 #42
Yup! Plucketeer Apr 2015 #62
Problem for Americans Thespian2 Apr 2015 #14
yep. marym625 Apr 2015 #15
+1 nt laundry_queen Apr 2015 #234
''...to rip apart financial regulation across the planet...'' Octafish Apr 2015 #17
+1000 marym625 Apr 2015 #19
Like this Autumn Apr 2015 #23
Perfect! marym625 Apr 2015 #24
LOL! I think we're all now targeted. Octafish Apr 2015 #44
That's perfect marym625 Apr 2015 #47
Thank you! Octafish Apr 2015 #46
The ripping is already done. TPP is to consolidate corporate power over the world. jwirr Apr 2015 #57
+1 Depaysement Apr 2015 #66
Anybody who invites Summers into the henhouse will not get my support. Fuddnik Apr 2015 #26
Yes marym625 Apr 2015 #28
Summers has done enough damage for several lifetimes. No more hen house! Enthusiast Apr 2015 #101
Palast is allowing free download of Vultures and Vote Rustlers marym625 Apr 2015 #148
The game is rigged - George Carlin was right... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #29
Carlin had it nailed a long time ago marym625 Apr 2015 #31
Same here... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #90
sure was marym625 Apr 2015 #96
Larry Summers is a privateer. JEB Apr 2015 #32
and he is excellent at his job. marym625 Apr 2015 #35
Correct, 'privateer' is the nice name for PIRATE going way back- appalachiablue Apr 2015 #43
Actually, the difference between a privateer and a pirate is that the former Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #50
I know, the privateer is govt-state sanctioned, the pirate isn't. But they're both Thieves. appalachiablue Apr 2015 #53
Kicking this. calimary Apr 2015 #34
Big time bastards! marym625 Apr 2015 #36
Kissinger, Summers what next Rumsfled and Rice for Hillary? How spineless Democrats go along whereisjustice Apr 2015 #58
+1000 marym625 Apr 2015 #221
Greenspan, Summers and Bubba were the team that lobbied Congress to repeal Glass Steagall. merrily Apr 2015 #59
Think how different things would have been if they had just left FDR's Glass Steagall alone. The jwirr Apr 2015 #60
I don't understand why anyone would hire Summers after that ginormous mistake. merrily Apr 2015 #63
Oh, silly Merrily--that was no mistake. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #75
Sigh. You're probably right. As cynical as I think I have become, I am still too naive. merrily Apr 2015 #76
Thanks for the opening. I haven't quoted Lilly Tomlin in months. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #79
That's exactly how I feel. Then again, as o 2007, I still thought all I had to do to fix the US was merrily Apr 2015 #80
You're in good company. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #85
you certainly are not alone in this. I really opened my eyes in the 2004 bbgrunt Apr 2015 #108
Confirmation. Thanks. kairos12 Apr 2015 #71
You're welcome marym625 Apr 2015 #91
K&R Some resist, some assist. raouldukelives Apr 2015 #78
+1000 marym625 Apr 2015 #92
The Obama White House is helping bankers finish the game. pa28 Apr 2015 #81
exactly! marym625 Apr 2015 #93
And then there's the heavy involvement of Alan Greenspan... Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #83
Big time marym625 Apr 2015 #95
What could motivate someone to create such devastation? Enthusiast Apr 2015 #94
money marym625 Apr 2015 #97
Greed - the most powerful, insidious and destructive addiction in the world. nt hifiguy Apr 2015 #160
Evil. polichick Apr 2015 #99
You said it! marym625 Apr 2015 #100
+100000000 woo me with science Apr 2015 #104
And for me, Woo, it's no longer an option. n/t Efilroft Sul Apr 2015 #166
K&R woo me with science Apr 2015 #111
Thank you marym625 Apr 2015 #112
And now that same financial elite wants us to give up our rights to a jury JDPriestly Apr 2015 #113
+1000 marym625 Apr 2015 #114
Kick. GoneFishin Apr 2015 #117
Thank you marym625 Apr 2015 #119
Maybe Greg Palast is Rand Paul's sorce... PosterChild Apr 2015 #125
I truly hope you are being sarcastic marym625 Apr 2015 #187
Of course.. PosterChild Apr 2015 #233
so truth is not something you look for. marym625 Apr 2015 #235
For some reason . .. PosterChild Apr 2015 #237
This truth is exactly that, truth marym625 Apr 2015 #238
LOL, "Prove it wrong" ... PosterChild Apr 2015 #239
Wow! marym625 Apr 2015 #240
Like Greg Palast... PosterChild Apr 2015 #241
I'm obviously correct marym625 Apr 2015 #242
LOL In your own judgmement ! (nm) PosterChild Apr 2015 #243
Again, just showing you don't know what you are talking about marym625 Apr 2015 #244
Thanks... PosterChild Apr 2015 #245
I will put this as concisely as I can. hifiguy Apr 2015 #127
I'm good with tonight marym625 Apr 2015 #134
I oppose the death penalty hifiguy Apr 2015 #138
I won't pretend I'm not conflicted marym625 Apr 2015 #154
K & R dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #128
Me too marym625 Apr 2015 #135
It's a serious question that we would do well to dig into dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #153
If you look at some of the replies to this post marym625 Apr 2015 #159
Yes I've seen them all a million times dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #161
I find it abhorrent marym625 Apr 2015 #163
Sadly, I think it is, to some extent, ... dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #164
Pretty much the message I get. marym625 Apr 2015 #165
Oh yeah I left out bashing Republicans dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #191
exactly how I feel marym625 Apr 2015 #195
OK, likewise. dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #197
logged in to rec BelgianMadCow Apr 2015 #147
Well thank you marym625 Apr 2015 #149
kick midnight Apr 2015 #192
Thank you marym625 Apr 2015 #196
This may be a naive question but if Hillary is doing the bidding of the one percent why are the Koch demgrrrll Apr 2015 #198
The Kochs and their extraordinary funds marym625 Apr 2015 #200
New World Order blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #216
URL: http://www.wmcpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Big-Brother-is-watching-you.jpg blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #217
We're you trying to post a second picture? marym625 Apr 2015 #219
Perfect marym625 Apr 2015 #218
Believe me Caretha Apr 2015 #232
That's very interesting marym625 Apr 2015 #236
Interesting. Quantess Apr 2015 #246
Yes marym625 Apr 2015 #248
We're fucked. Quantess Apr 2015 #249
Same here. No kids marym625 Apr 2015 #250

Autumn

(44,765 posts)
1. I remember when this first came out. Greg Palast is one hell of a investigative journalist.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:59 AM
Apr 2015

Hillary choosing Larry Summers for her team was the deciding factor in my not supporting her. Recommended.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
129. So because others did it, he should be let off the hook too?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:34 PM
Apr 2015

Strange question to ask you imo. I don't get why anyone would defend him here on DU.

Autumn

(44,765 posts)
137. I wouldn't defend Larry Summers if someone held a gun to my head. There are those
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:46 PM
Apr 2015

who are defending him simply because Hillary has him as an adviser. Who her other advisers are is irrelevant to me, Larry Summers makes the whole thing reek.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
140. Well you can tell who read the article and who did not, it doesn't even mention HRC.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:50 PM
Apr 2015

It is not particularly flattering to Obama either. Alan Greenspan was a horrible monster and so is Larry Summers. They would sell every scrap of this country for firewood if it made Wall Street happy.

Autumn

(44,765 posts)
145. Yep, the article was about Summers and not HRC. Right, they would sell their own Mothers
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:55 PM
Apr 2015

if it made Wall Street happy. I mentioned Hillary because she has Summers on her team.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
199. Would it please them if we list all the major contacts Summers has had over his career?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:52 PM
Apr 2015

Yeah too many people in power rely on these sharks that do to the economy, what Karl Rove did to America and Rummy did to Iraq. I remember getting shouted down over Enron and how that one sank into the CS depths after Lay died. Which of course worked, we don't talk about it anymore. I gave up then, too many invested to shouting down anyone that brings up these issues.

HRC can run her own life, I don't doubt that for two seconds. Who Larry Summers might have some influence over, is a good thing to know since he is a crook and a liar.

That's common sense.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
202. You are confusing me
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 12:54 AM
Apr 2015

You seem upset about what Autumn said, yet you obviously agree.

I wasn't posting here back during the enron scandal (the mildest term possible) but it is hard to believe anyone would not want to discuss it.

Yes, President Obama and Hillary Clinton are in bed with summers and his ilk and we are on a fast track to the end.

By the way, I watched Palast's Vultures and Vote Rustlers again tonight. Enron and the whole unreal horror that is the bush family and their money was included.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
204. No you misread that, not mad at all. Just pointing out that Summers hands are all over the place
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 12:57 AM
Apr 2015

Really? Well you ever wonder why we don't talk about 9/11 much? A LOT of topics got relegated to the basement of DU after we moved to DU3. People cry CS! CS! whenever it is a topic they don't like in GD or have ya not noticed that yet?

I agree completely with Autumn.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
206. oh good
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:13 AM
Apr 2015

Because that made no sense to me.

Yes, I have wondered. I guess I just didn't pay much attention then. I lurked and I looked for my favorite posters and that was about it. So many are gone from here. Some even were booted for things I just didn't understand. Some even left or were booted after I started posting back in 2012.

Kind of counterproductive to make important subjects as taboo, no? Makes it much more masturbatory than actual discussion.

Sigh.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
208. Well I think that is where some of the heated arguing comes from.
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:20 AM
Apr 2015

Some just ignore decades of facts.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
130. There is nothing left in the tank for them.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:35 PM
Apr 2015

Weak is the best they can do now. LOL...yeah others did it too, so let's not focus too much on Summers.

Weak indeed!

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
41. How should we know who exactly she is listening to the most? If this document is true and I see
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:46 AM
Apr 2015

not reason not to believe it then there are some Democratic leaders who belong in jail. Beginning with the end of Glass-Steagell. They knew from the get go that this was not good for anyone but the rich.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
56. The others on her team are likely insiders too.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:17 PM
Apr 2015

They can say anything they want but they never criticize other insiders.
Some people catch on to the game, others not so much.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
131. 'Some people catch on to the game, others not so much.'
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:36 PM
Apr 2015

Some of us caught on way back on DU2. Now it is just sad to watch.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
146. Why would she choose someone like Larry Summers, aside from THIS, which if Palast knows
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:56 PM
Apr 2015

and now we know, surely she knows, his attitude towards women?

Doesn't she know that when another woman warned them about a possible collapse of the economy back during the Clinton Administration, Summers and Greenspan among others RAN HER OUT OF TOWN?

HOW could someone who claims to care about women, the working class, or anything that makes a society civilized and decent, IGNORE Summers' record?

Watch this if you haven't already and tell me that Summers or Greenspan or any of these crooks belong in any position where they can influence policies in this country:

The Warning

It was another woman, Brooksley Born, who warned them all that if they did not reign in the Wall St gamblers, the economy would collapse.

Instead of promoting her for her brilliant analysis of why she had come to that conclusion, they ran her out of town, and it looks like Palast is correct, because they WANTED IT to collapse.

That is a great documentary and should be viewed by every American to open their eyes to what our government is really up to.

And Brooksley Born should be given the credit she was denied back then AND an apology.

I can bet everything I own, that if Born were running for president there is no way Summers would be on her team.

Autumn

(44,765 posts)
151. Oh my God I had forgotten about Brooksley.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:02 PM
Apr 2015
Getting old sucks. Thank you for that reminder, we can never forget.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
155. Brooksley Born was right, she was a brilliant woman. Greenspan was so disastrously wrong, along with
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:16 PM
Apr 2015

the rest of his boys club. But they were ANGRY at Born who thought at the time they really WANTED to know the facts.

She was asked after the Global Crash, CAUSED by that 'boys club' if anyone, Greenspan eg, had ever apologized to her. She said 'no'.

Autumn

(44,765 posts)
158. Disgusting and yet they are embraced by the very ones we elect
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:21 PM
Apr 2015

to lead us. It's easy to see why we keep having these "crashes". The same ones who cause them remain as advisers. They never go away, they just keep getting richer.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
162. If I were running, as Hillary is, I would seek out Brooksley Born and others who were RIGHT
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:50 PM
Apr 2015

to be on my team. You can tell a lot about a candidate by who is on their team.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
205. Thanks for the link!
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:04 AM
Apr 2015

I remember this. I never saw the frontline though. I often forget about the show altogether. But every time I see it, I love it.

Thanks so much Sabrina!

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
207. You're welcome Mary. That documentary was excellent and should be required viewing by
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:16 AM
Apr 2015

every voter imo. Brooksley Born could have saved this country and the world actually, from the disastrous economic collapse IF it were not for people like Summers and Greenspan who could not shut her up fast enough.

The country needs to know what they did. They WANTED what happened to happen.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
209. It's like a bad movie
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:21 AM
Apr 2015

If I saw this movie back in the 70s, I never would have bought it as a possibility. Every decade after I would have believed it more and more.


Truly just unbelievable. Greenspan was a nightmare all by himself

marym625

(17,997 posts)
211. btw
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:28 AM
Apr 2015

I can't wait to watch it. .But it will have to be tomorrow. Too tired right now. I would fall asleep

Don't you wish we could make the entire world read and watch certain things? But, judging by some of the responses here, even knowing some truth is not enough.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
212. You will find it gripping, I think. I am going to watch it again but like you, not tonight.
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:43 AM
Apr 2015

As for those in total denial, thankfully most people, when presented with facts, no matter how sad they may feel about having to let go of what they believed, are willing to do so. Which is why those in Power do all they can to prevent the people from knowing the facts.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
213. omg
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 01:47 AM
Apr 2015

If you haven't seen the brand new post in gd you should. Exactly what we have been talking about. That young one needs to see your frontline.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
214. I wouldn't assume that that is a 'young one' Lol!
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 02:08 AM
Apr 2015

I've noticed in life, in general, that those who ARE what they actually are, have no need to constantly TELL us what they are.

We've also noticed that right wing trolls tend to use handles that announce 'I'm a Liberal, REALLY I am'! Lol.

You eg, didn't feel the need to do that, nor did I. It kind of goes without saying.

Saw it, dismissed it, and not worried about it. I look at OWS eg, where hundreds of thousands of young people took to the streets and showed the world that they KNOW what is going on. In fact the young are far more informed than their parents because they are the ones suffering right now under the draconian 'economic' policies of those in power.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
185. They think it is awesome for us to argue back and forth
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:56 PM
Apr 2015

over social issues while the middle class continues to get gutted.

Then when in office we see a continuation of right wing economic and foreign policy issues.

Seeing someone like summers selected, telegraphs to the world what their true intentions are and who really is their base.

In some ways W was an honest politician when addressing financial elites he stated, "you are my base"!



Summers is a foot soldier for the "haves and have mores."

They are LOLOLing at you and me.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
4. Thank you, Autumn
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:02 AM
Apr 2015

I decided that before this but it sure nailed that decision in place.

Greg Palast is one of the few we can count on for truth and to actually investigate. I am proud he gave me permission to post this

marym625

(17,997 posts)
9. I have it
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:26 AM
Apr 2015

He's so awesome. His series now on the New Jim Crow is showing how the repugs are disenfranchising millions of voters. Shockingly, I know, but the great majority of whom are people of color

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
132. Some people have an agenda to keep ingestigative reporting dead. They love these dumbass pundits
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:38 PM
Apr 2015

like you see on Foxnews. People like Greg Palast scare them. They know there is no buying Palast out, so that means he is an instant enemy.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
136. exactly why you never see him on US MSM.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:44 PM
Apr 2015

Al Jazeera America is about it.

We need 100 Greg Palasts.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
142. YEP. Always look for the people the M$M mocks and ridicules. They have a reason to be upset.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:52 PM
Apr 2015

Like the fella that shot himself and had a sign taped to his hand, 'tax the 1%'...not a single M$M article carried the details. However, some just LOVE the corporate media! They are the same ones that hate OWS and bow down every single change they get for Wall Street and their investment banker idols.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
82. I read the memo
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:37 PM
Apr 2015

it says nothing more then consult with the leaders of the industry our negotiations are going to effect, and here are their phone numbers. It happens, and should happen, all the time. The government aways consults with the industry that changes in the government's regulations are going to effect. Nothing to see here, move on.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
86. I am sure you did
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:09 PM
Apr 2015

but it was not the Memo that hurt us, it was the advice the bankers gave. They had no idea that it would cause the crash of our economic system, derivatives were suppose to mitigate risk, it was a form of insurance, supposedly. All the banker were trying to do was increase their profits, not cause the world's economy to collapse

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
98. Ok, tell me what the bankers had to gain by the collapse of the world economy
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:39 PM
Apr 2015

The only reason the government bailed them out was because several large banks went bankrupt. Summers was going to get that job that made him a millionaire no matter whether the rules changed or not, that is just the way the system is. The government regulators get great jobs in the industry they regulated, it is all about connections and relationships that develop. So what is your theory?

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
109. What have they lost?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:29 PM
Apr 2015

The too big to fails got bailed out with no conditions, got even bigger than they were when they were too big to fail and the CEOs continued to get their bonuses while they stole people's homes from them. Yes, stole.

They made out like bandits.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
116. They did not gain anything, nor did they lose much unless
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:33 PM
Apr 2015

you were an employee of one of the banks that failed. Yes, the banks too big to fail got bailed out with no conditions, got even bigger than they were when they were too big to fail and the CEOs continued to get their bonuses. But this was 10 years after the Memo, and a different set of actors were in place, Republicans all.

The rule changes that the Memo was part of may have been a start of the process, but it was just the first step. It was part the the deregulation craze that started with the Carter administration's deregulation of the airlines, and accelerated with the Reagan-Bush administration.

Also the easing of some regulations had a good purpose, but they inadvertently contributed to the crisis. In order to enable more people to afford homes mortgage requirements were relaxed, and people bought homes they really could not afford. When these loans were called in, they contributed to the drop in the value of homes. Another example of unintended consequences.

There were many examples of unintended consequences in the crash of the world economy.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
121. We're not talking about the "employees" of the banks. We're talking about the wheelers
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:49 PM
Apr 2015

and dealers.

Why did they strong arm Ecuador then? Why did they come up with these financial requirements? Why did they want Glass-Steagall done away with? Because it made them money. Come on...

The year was 1997. US Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin was pushing hard to de-regulate banks. That required, first, repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act to dismantle the barrier between commercial banks and investment banks. It was like replacing bank vaults with roulette wheels.

Second, the banks wanted the right to play a new high-risk game: "derivatives trading." JP Morgan alone would soon carry $88 trillion* of these pseudo-securities on its books as "assets."


They passed bad "papers" along bundled up and made money on them. That's what the whole thing was about. Then when it started crashing down on them WE gave them the money they 'lost' even though they had already pocketed it. I can't believe we are still hearing that it's the people's fault. It was all the bankers fault. It's called predatory lending. And if the people couldn't afford the loans/mortgages then it's still the banks' fault for approving their applications, especially when they did it without verifying any information.
 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
139. Employees of the bank include the officers
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:49 PM
Apr 2015

who in many cases lost millions of dollars.

As far as the repeal of Glass-Steagall please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

"derivatives trading." is what a person does when he buys or sells a stock option. They can be used to speculate because of the leverage they provide or as a form of insurance. A derivative in itself is not a problem, its risk comes in how it is utilized.

I am not defending the banks, they were wrong as were the people who lied on their loan applications. I am just saying the economic crisis of 2007 is not the result of some plot hatched by Summers in 1997.


PosterChild

(1,307 posts)
124. While reading the OP..,
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:13 PM
Apr 2015

...I kept thinking OK,OK,OK, so what's in the memo. It sounds like nothing. Thanks for the information.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
173. Sounds like a Code Name: END GAME
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:39 PM
Apr 2015


Either way, knowing Larry Summers, it's not good for most of us.

Evidence of an American Plutocracy: The Larry Summers Story

Now in its 32nd year...

"You can't help those who simply will not be helped. One problem that we've had, even in the best of times, is people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice." -- President Reagan, 1/31/84, on Good Morning America, defending his administration against charges of callousness.



You want more Trickle-Down Voodoo Reaganomics?

Then Friend Larry Summers.



Evidence of an American Plutocracy: The Larry Summers Story

By Matthew Skomarovsky
LilSis.org
Jan 10, 2011 at 19:31 EST

EXCERPT...

Another new business model Rubin and Summers made possible was Enron. Rubin had known Enron well through Goldman Sachs’s financing of the company, and recused himself from matters relating to Enron in his first year on the Clinton team. He and Summers went on to craft policies at Treasury that were essential to Enron’s lucrative energy trading business, and they were in touch with Enron executives and lobbyists all the while. Enron meanwhile won $2.4 billion in foreign development deals from Clinton’s Export-Import Bank, then run by Kenneth Brody, a former protege of Rubin’s at Goldman Sachs.

Soon after Rubin joined Citigroup, its investment banking division picked up Enron as a client, and Citigroup went on to become Enron’s largest creditor, loaning almost $1 billion to the company. As revelations of massive accounting fraud and market manipulation emerged over the next years and threatened to bring down the energy company, Rubin and Summers intervened. While Enron’s rigged electricity prices in California were causing unprecedented blackouts, Summers urged Governor Gray Davis to avoid criticizing Enron and recommended further deregulatory measures. Rubin was an official advisor to Gov. Davis on energy market issues at the time, while Citigroup was heavily invested in Enron’s fraudulent California business, and he too likely put pressure on the Governor to lay off Enron. Rubin also pulled strings at Bush’s Treasury Department in late 2001, calling a former employee to see if Treasury could ask the major rating agencies not to downgrade Enron, and Rubin also lobbied the rating agencies directly. (In all likelihood he made similar attempts in behalf of Citigroup during the recent financial crisis.) Their efforts ultimately failed, Enron went bust, thousands of jobs and pensions were destroyed, and its top executives went to jail. It’s hard to believe, but there was some white-collar justice back then.

SNIP...

Summers also starting showing up around the Hamilton Project, which Rubin had just founded with hedge fund manager Roger Altman. Altman was another Clinton official who had come from Wall Street, following billionaire Peter Peterson from Lehman Brothers to Blackstone Group, and he left Washington to found a major hedge fund in 1996. The Hamilton Project is housed in the Brookings Institution, a prestigious corporate-funded policy discussion center that serves as a sort of staging ground for Democratic elites in transition between government, academic, and business positions. The Hamilton Project would go on to host, more specifically, past and future Democratic Party officials friendly to the financial industry, and to produce a stream of similarly minded policy papers. Then-Senator Obama was the featured political speaker at Hamilton’s inaugural event in April 2006.

Summers joined major banking and political elites on Hamilton’s Advisory Council and appeared at many Hamilton events. During a discussion of the financial crisis in 2008, Summers was asked about his role in repealing Glass-Stegall, the law that forbade commercial and investment banking mergers like Citigroup. “I think it was the right thing to do,” he responded, noting that the repeal of Glass-Stegall made possible a wave of similar mergers during the recent financial crisis, such as Bank of America’s takeover of Merrill Lynch. He was arguing, in effect, that financial deregulation did not cause the financial crisis, it actually solved it. “We need a regulatory system as modern as the markets,” said Summers — quoting Rubin, who was in the room. “We need a hen house as modern as the food chain,” said the fox.

CONTINUED...

http://blog.littlesis.org/2011/01/10/evidence-of-an-ame... /



These are the richest times in history, with seven-eighths of all wealth ever, per David Stockman, Ronald Reagan's own Budget Director. Until we see economic fairness restored through fiscal and other government policies, laws and regulations; the rich will keep getting richer, the middle class will continue dissolving into the new poor, and the poor will become the super-majority. Of course, as money pays for lobbyists who write the laws and speech and cash are the same thing when it comes to elections, the majority perspective on policy will be silent as the grave.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
172. Ask Joseph Stiglitz about Larry Summers asking: 'What would Goldman think of that? '
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:36 PM
Apr 2015
Larry Summers: Goldman Sacked

By Greg Palast
Reader Supported News, September 16, 2013

Joseph Stiglitz couldn't believe his ears. Here they were in the White House, with President Bill Clinton asking the chiefs of the US Treasury for guidance on the life and death of America's economy, when the Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Larry Summers turns to his boss, Secretary Robert Rubin, and says, "What would Goldman think of that?"

Huh?

Then, at another meeting, Summers said it again: What would Goldman think?

A shocked Stiglitz, then Chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisors, told me he'd turned to Summers, and asked if Summers thought it appropriate to decide US economic policy based on "what Goldman thought." As opposed to say, the facts, or say, the needs of the American public, you know, all that stuff that we heard in Cabinet meetings on The West Wing.

[font color="red"]Summers looked at Stiglitz like Stiglitz was some kind of naive fool who'd read too many civics books. [/font color]

CONTINUED...

http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-goldman-sacked/
 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
189. I never said Larry Summers was a crusader for the common man
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:23 PM
Apr 2015

He is from Wall Street, is a product of Wall Street, and thinks like Wall Street. I just said that he did not in 1997 knowingly, and with remediation, set in motion the economic collapse that occurred in 2007. He just wanted the banks to have the opportunity to make more money, which is the whole ideal of capitalism. And like any good capitalist, especially on Wall Street, he is a risk taker. He just did not compute how big a risk they were taking.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
224. Banks having the chance to make more money is "the whole ideal of capitalism"?
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 10:14 AM
Apr 2015

If that's true, then we're truly screwed.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
225. In capitalism the goal is to get the best return on your investment
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 11:40 AM
Apr 2015

in other words, make te most money you can, not to make your employees happy or give back to the community. But capitalism is premised on many small local businesses competing. In theory, the invisible hand of competition will force businesses to act in a way that will keep their employees happy (in order to retain them), and give back to the community in order to maintain good relationships with their customers. But that is not present-day capitalism, with a few nonlocal corporations, working together to divide up the market and run over their employees and the local communities.

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
220. Exactly!
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 07:16 AM
Apr 2015

He is a powerful 1%er who continually fails upward despite having proven himself a loser repeatedly. As university president, he lost $1 billion from Harvard! That HRC would choose him as an economic advisor, speaks volumes about here

But then again, there are so many reason, she's not suitable:
She was inevitable in 2008, too. She was in it to win it. She was assured that her name and money were sufficient, until Super Tuesday (March 5, 2008) proved her wrong, her campaign was in disarray and she resorted to kitchen sink tactics against BHO, even going so far as to praise McCain. Then, still not knowing when to quit despite running on empty cash wise, she proceeded on to California because you never know, remember Bobby Kennedy. That was the straw for many, including the Democratic leadership which asked her to bow out in summer 2008. She gracelessly did so, on condition that Obama and the party pay off her campaign debt. Wow, what great leadership skills, what sound management! Screw up, squander a formidable campaign war chest on a 1992 style campaign, then demand that someone else bail you out... kinda like Wall Street which is quite appropriate.

In 2008, HRC also touted her 20 years of experience -- 12 as first lady of Arkansas and 8 as first lady of the US. But if she was, and is, to claim the Clinton legacy, then she has to assume the blame for that job sucking travesty NAFTA, for the Gramm-Bliley-Leech Act which overturned Glass-Steagall, for the Telecommunications Act which has produced the horrid consolidated media of today, and for Welfare Deform which has deepened the abyss of poverty. BTW: imagine the ridicule HRC supporters would heap on Babs Bush if she ever made a similar 'experience' claim based on 4 years as 2nd lady of the US, 4 years as 1st lady of the US and 8 years as 1st mom!

Then there’s 2002, HRC's first term in the Senate. How can anyone forget that IWR vote, that callous, finger-in-the-political-wind vote cast because of her POTUS aspirations. That vote makes her ultimately culpable for the death, debt, destruction and destabilization that war of choice has caused. Sure Bush would have gone to war anyway, but without the votes of Democrats like the would be presidents Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Biden and Dodd, it would truly have been BUSH’S war. Instead, HRC and the others were profiles in political cowardice displaying politically ambitious calculation, awful judgment, and a stunning lack of morality while providing the liars and thieves in the Bush White House bipartisan cover. Here at DU, we knew better than to believe the Bush cabal. Democrats like Edward Kennedy (a genuine liberal), Bob Graham (of FL who even now points correctly to the Saudis), Robert Byrd and others not only cautioned their peers about such haste (casting votes just before the 2002 midterm elections) but warned, like canaries in the mine, about the long term consequences. Never forget Byrd’s poignant speech about the rush to war, the cost of war, the waste of war... It didn't take a classified report to see the facts. And those who think that vote is outdated, past history, something to be forgotten because HRC apologized for it, called it a mistake… should remember that there are no do-overs for votes that cost so much in terms of death and destruction.

HRC is no friend of the common man. She pays handlers and marketing personnel to package her as the people’s champion, but it’s all smoke and mirrors because Wall Streeters (the likes of Robert Reuben, Lloyd Blankfein aka Mr. Goldmann Sachs, et.al.) own her. She is the mistress of triangulation who helped found the DLC and who remains 3rd way to her very core. She is tone deaf and thin skinned (see that 2008 primary campaign, again) and lacks the natural political skills and charisma of Bill. On that note, I would even go so far as to say, she is no pave-the-way feminist. She is where she is today because of Bill.

After law school, she may have worked (ever so briefly) on the Nixon impeachment committee, but she was no heavy hitter, she didn’t pass the DC Bar, and she didn’t last long there. So what did she do? She ran off to Arkansas (to Arkansas… who goes there, who goes from Yale to DC to Hope Arkansas, if they are such a gifted and talented attorney… sorry Arkansans). She followed Bill because she recognized his innate talents and his rising star quality, and she latched on to him. She made it because of being Mrs. Clinton not because of being Hillary Rodham. Her only real lawyering was shilling for Walmart (a corporate lawyer for WALMART… so much for walking the talk of being the people’s champion) and at the Rose Law Firm, she relied heavily on Vince Foster!

If she's the best the Democratic Party can offer at this critical time in history, then we're fucked. Go ahead and flame me, I really don't care

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
2. Summers is one of about 200 who have talked to her
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:59 AM
Apr 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/us/politics/economic-plan-is-a-quandary-for-hillary-clintons-campaign.html

Mr. Reich is one of some 200 economists and academics who have offered Mrs. Clinton ideas and guidance as she settles on an economic doctrine. Several of Mr. Clinton’s former advisers, including Alan S. Blinder, Robert E. Rubin and Mr. Summers, maintain influence. But Mrs. Clinton has cast a wide net that also includes Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics who has written extensively about inequality; Alan B. Krueger, a professor at Princeton and co-author of “Inequality in America”; and Peter R. Orszag, a former director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Obama. Teresa Ghilarducci, a labor economist who focuses on retirement issues, is also playing a prominent role.



Found this too which I didn't know:

As a presidential candidate in 2008, Mrs. Clinton angered some of her Wall Street donors when she came out early in support of the regulation of derivatives and other complicated financial products and called for eliminating the “carried interest” loophole that allowed some financiers to avoid paying millions in income taxes. She also said that as president, she would create a cabinet-level position to fight poverty.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
8. There is much more to that article
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:21 AM
Apr 2015

Including the fact that Summers is co-chair of the Center for American Progress

Last month in Washington, a 17-person commission convened by the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank with close ties to Mrs. Clinton, presented a 166-page report on “inclusive prosperity,” which is among the numerous economic blueprints Mrs. Clinton has reviewed. For some, the solutions proposed by the committee, of which Mr. Summers was co-chairman, did not go far enough.


And

But later experiences complicated her worldview. Many of the advocates who knew Mrs. Clinton as a champion for the poor and working-class women felt betrayed in 1996 when, as first lady, she supported Mr. Clinton’s overhaul of the welfare system, which gave states more power to remove people from welfare rolls and pledged to cut federal spending on assistance for the poor by nearly $55 billion over six years. She was more skeptical about the North American Free Trade Agreement, which Mr. Clinton signed into law in 1993 and which has also been accused of hurting American workers.


And there are other articles out there that show great concern with this relationship. Including by Bill Moyers

He is not just one of 200 she spoke to. He is a main adviser to her and co-chair of the group she has close ties to

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
11. yes, I read the whole thing and the fact that it is not entirely complimentary
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:29 AM
Apr 2015

makes it even better to read because it is balanced. That is something that Hillary's detractors fail to do.
For example the Center for American Progress does a lot of good work.
https://www.americanprogress.org/

Detractors tend to pick, pick, pick and anything slightly not to their liking, but fail to acknowledge all the good things Hillary has done.
That goes for President Obama too.



marym625

(17,997 posts)
13. You realize that you did exactly that
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:39 AM
Apr 2015

Picked the part to fit your argument but nothing more.



This is too huge and important issue. It needs to be pointed out and brought to the forefront. Of course, draw your own conclusions. But to ignore how the corpocracy is winning because Larry Summers and people like him, and ANY candidate that uses him as a main adviser is, minimally irresponsible

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
16. you see, I think your argument is overblown and hyperbole
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:49 AM
Apr 2015

Of course I picked my argument. You were the one who posted a negative article.

Oh well.. Hillary will win Illinois no matter what you post on DU.

I won't be responding further. I'm going to play a little Age of Empires.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
18. I posted an article about a very important thing
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:57 AM
Apr 2015

This should be known by every single person in the world.

The fact that the author of the End Game Memo is also an adviser to Hillary Clinton should also be known. The same guy that threatened Elizabeth Warren.

You want to call it hyperbole, that's your prerogative. It's bullshit but it's your prerogative to call it that.

We'll see what happens in Illinois.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
105. What is so unusual about the Memo?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:17 PM
Apr 2015

It says nothing more then consult with the leaders of the industry our negotiations are going to effect, and here are their phone numbers. It happens, and should happen, all the time. The government aways consults with the industry that changes in the government's regulations are going to effect.

It was not the Memo that hurt us, it was the advice the bankers gave. They had no idea that it would cause the crash of our economic system, derivatives were suppose to mitigate risk, it was a form of insurance, supposedly. All the banker were trying to do was increase their profits, not cause the world's economy to collapse.

The only reason the government bailed the bankers out was because several large banks went bankrupt, and there was a fear it would spread. Summers was going to get that job that made him a millionaire no matter whether the rules changed or not, that is just the way the system is under any President. The government regulators get great jobs in the industry they regulated, it is all about connections and relationships that develop.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
110. I don't understand your response
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:37 PM
Apr 2015

Did you read the original Memo that was linked to in the article. I did.

So why are you absolutely flabbergasted.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
156. Please tell me what you think unicorns have been telling me
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:17 PM
Apr 2015

My world has a blue sky, except when it is about to rain and at night.

If you feel I am wrong in what I believe please point it out, and why you believe I am wrong. You might get me to change my mind, since I do not put much faith in what my magical talking unicorn tells me.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
103. So the Republicans are better???
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:09 PM
Apr 2015

Warren is not running and may be the only other possible Democratic candidate who could win the general election.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
106. seriously?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:20 PM
Apr 2015

I am so tired of that non-argument.

Absolutely no where EVER did I come close to saying Republicans are better. Though there is very little discernible difference between HC and a socially conscious conservative.

We are 18 months away from the general election. I believe that Hillary Clinton is bad for America. She's bad for working people. She's bad for the poor. She has proven that with welfare reform. With her vote for the IWA. With her love of Wallstreet which seems to be greater every day.

I believe that Sanders and O'Malley have a chance.

I will fight tooth and nail to make sure HC does not become the nominee. And to take things like this and say we should support her because she's better than a Republican is EXACTLY the kind of obsequious bullshit the right wing does.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
120. A socially conscious conservative does not exist in today's Republican party.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:47 PM
Apr 2015

And for me that is reason enough to support Hillary. I do not believe that Sanders and O'Malley have a chance in the general election.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
123. Maybe not
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:55 PM
Apr 2015

But they exist in the Democratic party.

And I think Sanders and O'Malley both do have a chance. Putting the truth out will help ensure that

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
22. it would be nice to get past personalities and focus on policy that matters
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:09 AM
Apr 2015

it's irrational to attach ourselves to the personality and brand of an individual candidate at the peril of our livelihood. you can bet that Larry Summers et al don't operate that way, and they a lot more margin to work with. if they lose a few dollars, no big. if i do, it's the difference between living inside or out on the streets.

it's irrational, but it's exactly how we comport ourselves, unfortunately. i'm not looking forward to 18 months of this -- no one is.

and the fact of the matter is that how we get people elected has changed. it's not about courting the mythical 'swing voter'. it's about mobilizing and persuading the base.

my fear with Hillary is that in the post-crash/post-occupy world we live in, she has an uphill battle in the project to mobilize and persuade. her record on these matters is all too clear, and her choice of advisors is not encouraging.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
33. Yep. And issues, not candidates, mobilize.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:36 AM
Apr 2015

We see where appeasing the financial industry got us. Boom. Bust. Repeat.

Even Republicans are campaigning on re-establishing the middle class.

What's going to be interesting is seeing who's willing to back up the new wave of Warren-eque talk with telling Goldman Sachs, Chase, et al. that they will have to take their pale, grasping fingers off the throat of the world.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
40. If someone doesn't
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:45 AM
Apr 2015

And if more of the same is elected, might as well hang it up. We cannot withstand another generation of this

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
49. And especially if they are allowed another generation to continue their games. However, since both
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:01 PM
Apr 2015

parties are in on this - where do we go from here?

marym625

(17,997 posts)
51. We need Bernie.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:05 PM
Apr 2015

Warren and Feingold won't run. So we need Sanders. And we have to make sure we take local and state elections

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
54. Thank you. I am an avid Sanders supporter and I was thinking that we do have some good
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:10 PM
Apr 2015

progressives that will try to fix this. So maybe some hope.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
61. Me too
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:27 PM
Apr 2015

I will eat beans for a month to donate to his campaign...but I still pine for Warren to run.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
143. Add her obvious buddy-buddy relationship with Blankfein
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:53 PM
Apr 2015

(not to mention war criminal Kissinger) and she is firmly aligned with some of the most horrible people on the planet. But just ignore all that and yay, team!!

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
30. "Mr. Reich is one of some 200 economists and academics who have offered Mrs. Clinton ideas and
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:32 AM
Apr 2015

guidance". It doesn't matter if 10,000 economists have offered her advice. What is important is whose advice she will follow. She has been in tight with Larry Summers for decades. She isn't "settle[ing] on an economic doctrine" she has a doctrine and it looks like it is the same as her husband and Pres Obama. The fact is that corporations are literally running this country and Larry Summers is a large reason why. One must be in denial to not notice what has been happening in the last 30 years. We must end this corptocracy or we will all be paupers in less than a generation.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
67. Take the Credit Card companies' influence on the Bankruptcy Bill of 2002
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:39 PM
Apr 2015
Why Hillary Clinton Should Not Be The Democratic Presidential Nominee

Eric Zuesse
Huffington Post, 11/18/2013

EXCERPT...

This is how anti-abortion murderers and CEO crooks finally secured all their sought-for exemptions from "bankruptcy reform," which offered only Republican "tough love" for the middle class and poor - and an outright kick in the teeth to people bankrupted by medical bills, by job loss, or by divorce, the three biggest causes of bankruptcies, which studies showed accounted for almost all filings. (In fact, nearly half of all personal bankruptcies were due simply to medical expenses; and because of this new law, most of those cases would henceforth produce something akin to slavery capping the patient's misery.) Still, a large share of the total dollars involved in bankruptcy cases were assets held by the very few super-rich going bankrupt, and the Republican "bankruptcy reform" protected those bankrupts, so that MBNA and the other banks which had pushed so hard for this legislation received only limited real benefit from it. Perhaps the executives of those banks, who were protecting themselves from risks they were imposing upon others, were even more concerned to protect themselves in the event that they might need bankruptcy protection themselves, than they were to enhance the bottom lines of the companies they managed. This was a failure of their fiduciary obligations.

SNIP...

On 30 September 2002, BusinessWeek reported (p. 112), concerning the new U.S. bankruptcy law that seemed about to be passed in a Republican Congress and supported by the Republican President, "The legislation is especially harsh on lower-income debtors."

The lobbyists who actually shape - if not write - the laws, are hired by the relatively few people who have the financial wherewithal to employ lobbyists' services. Those lobbyists are real soldiers in this authentic class war. And most of the other real soldiers consist of the think tanks (like the Heritage Foundation, and the American Enterprise Institute), and the numerous political action committees, that the conservative rich hire to indoctrinate, and to pump money into, the election campaigns of their supportive politicians.

For example, was it pure coincidence that the biggest single contributor, at $240,675, to the G.W. Bush 2000 Presidential campaign, was MBNA Corp., the bank that lobbied the hardest for this bankruptcy "reform" bill? (Enron gave Bush less in that campaign, but was his top career giver, because Enron had financed Bush's Texas rise.) Was it coincidence that, in addition, MBNA's CEO, Charles Cawley, personally raised $369,156 from others for Bush? Another MBNA executive, Lance Weaver, was also a Bush "Ranger," having raised over $200,000 for Bush. After all, Bush's Democratic predecessor, President Clinton, had vetoed similar Republican legislation. But, ironically, the corruptors ended up being defeated this time around, by their own internecine war on this matter: when big-business bucks went up against Religious-Right bucks and votes, the whole deal crumbled. It turned out that violent anti-abortion protesters were seeking a special exemption in the new bankruptcy bill, to protect their assets from bankruptcy seizure by their victims (such as by abortion-doctors they shoot), but the banks (allied with Democrats on this point) opposed such an exemption. The Religious Right, and big business, customary allies, split here, and so the entire bill bombed.

However, this legislation was revived after Republicans increased their majority in the Senate in 2004, and the biggest barrier to passage in its reincarnation consisted of some of the corrupt executives themselves, who were determined to shield their personal assets from possible civil suits by stockholders and by others, including corporate creditors. Thus, on 2 March 2005, The New York Times headlined "Proposed Law On Bankruptcy Has Loophole: Wealthy Could Shield Many Assets in Trusts." The main sponsor of this revived bill was, of course, a Republican senator, who claimed ignorance of that provision. How odd, then, that his bill would protect banks against only poor deadbeats, while letting the richest ones off. So, whom had these banks been lobbying so hard to protect themselves from? - it was from the kinds of people they never met and didn't want to meet: the middle class and poor. Bankers seemed far less interested in protecting their institutions against people such as themselves. After all, they're God's People; and, as for debtors who might have to lose their homes in order simply to pay catastrophic medical bills, or whatever - God is evidently not so fond of those people anyway. Thus, on 8 March 2005, the U.S. Senate voted 53 to 46 to defeat a proposed Democratic amendment which would have removed the bill's shield for anti-abortion murderers. Republican Senator Orrin Hatch called this amendment a "poison pill" aimed solely to protect deadbeats by blocking passage of "bankruptcy reform." The next day, another Democratic amendment aimed to preserve a longstanding bankruptcy provision, which even the SEC acknowledged to be necessary in order to prohibit corruption by investment banks in certain bankruptcy cases. As the Washington Post headlined March 10th, "Senate Delays Action on Bankruptcy: Bipartisan Amendment Would Limit Advice By Investment Banks." It reported, "Earlier yesterday, five other proposed changes to the bill were voted down. ... [Among the] amendments that were defeated, largely along party lines, [was one] would have given elderly people more protection to keep their homes during bankruptcy."

Passage of this bill, and its signing into law by President Bush, represented Republican victory at the end of a lengthy campaign by large banks against their non-wealthy customers. The final version of this bill passed the U.S. Senate on 10 March 2005, vote #44, at 6:12 PM, and 74 Senators voted for it, and only 25 voted against it -- all 25 were Democrats (see this record of the roll-call vote: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2005/s44).

Each and every Republican in the U.S. Senate voted for it. The only Senator who avoided voting was the Wall Street Democrat Hillary Clinton, who was the only one of the 100 U.S. Senators shown as "Not Voting" on this legislation - so that it could pass but without her vote being recorded on it. Even the senior Senator from her own state of NY, Chuck Schumer, who was well known to support Wall Street on almost everything, voted "Nay" on this monstrosity against the middle class. There were 54 Republicans in the U.S. Senate, and 54 of them voted "Yea" on this. There were 45 Democrats: 19 were "Yea," 25 "Nay," and 1 "Not Voting." There was one Independent Senator (former Republican James Jeffords of Vermont): 1 "Yea." So, on this bill, which had 100% Republican support, and which was opposed by 25 of the 45 Democrats, or by 56% of the Democrats, Hillary was a no-show.

CONTINUED...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/why-hillary-clinton-shoul_b_4293469.html

marym625

(17,997 posts)
115. I believe I have seen you have to spell out
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:31 PM
Apr 2015

Almost literally, everything you post to this person.

When people defy truth and logic, ignore fact for fiction, there seems to be no point in continuing.

I applaud your efforts and I thank you for the information

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
126. ''The darkest night is ignorance.'' -- Gautama Buddha
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:23 PM
Apr 2015

Thank you for the kind words, marym625. Your friendship means the world.

As for Vanilla Rhapsody, yeah. The act's tiring. For instance, evidence of the corrupt nature of contemporary politics:

Former Sen. Phil Gramm, who helped ramrod legislation deregulating the banks, repealing Glass-Steagall, and making it OK for the lawmakers to feather their nests while in and just as soon as out of office, currently is Vice Chairman of UBS, the Swiss banking company which gained hundreds of billions through TARP and the sundry bailouts and handouts from Washington, directly and through AIG. Now, former President Bill Clinton, who signed deregulation and its excesses into law, and forever pretzeldent George W Bush, who has feathered the banksters' beds with trillion dollar feathers, today work with Ol' Phil on Wealth Management. Buy Partisanship, in works, if not in kind.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
133. Thank you, again!
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Apr 2015

Great article. And great quote!

I'm honored to be called friend. Thank you

You needn't concern yourself with VR for a while. Attempts to cause hides for others seems to have taken its toll.

I don't know when so many stopped fighting for what's right just to give in to so much wrong but it is exactly why we are where we are.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
144. That doesn't work either.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:55 PM
Apr 2015

All you can do is keep them going on their merry-go-round until they become too dizzy to continue.

 

QuestionAlways

(259 posts)
193. When Hillary was Senator from New York
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:44 PM
Apr 2015

she had to represent Wall Street, which is in New York, and is New York's biggest employer. What was good for Wall Street was good for New York and what was bad for Wall Street was bad for New York. This will no longer be true if she is elected POTUS, she represents the whole country

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
222. That makes sense. So, what do you think of the family ties to Phil Gramm and UBS?
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 08:55 AM
Apr 2015

The former Senator from Texas helped ramrod bank deregulation, which included the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, and which President Clinton signed. Wall Street used their newfound powers to loot their customers and then had the taxpayers not only bailout the banks, but give them fat bonuses as millions were tossed from their homes.

When it comes to "Wealth Management," Phil Gramm's UBS Vice Chairman home page separates the punters from the players. Now, these former officials are helping those who most benefited from their economic policies "Have More."

It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:

President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool

SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html

One of my attorney chums doesn't like to see his name on any committees, event letterhead or political campaign literature. These folks, it seems to me, are past caring.

Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.

Thank Moon for DU. The fact the nation's "news media" doesn't cover history, or much beyond the horse race, should also be of concern to those interested in democracy.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
68. Proof? H. Clinton, even though running for president, has been very quiet about her
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:42 PM
Apr 2015

economic agenda, so no I don't have proof. But it's a fact that the Clintons and Pres Obama are close to Larry Summers. Do you have something to indicate otherwise?

marym625

(17,997 posts)
38. +1000
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:43 AM
Apr 2015

Well said.

I just do not understand the push to ignore this. And to call it hyperbole? No words

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
45. Fairly clear to me.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:53 AM
Apr 2015

Denial consists of the refusal to accept a past or present reality.

It is a self defence mechanism employed by aspects of the subconscious mind in an attempt to protect emotional and psychological wellbeing.

Denial can be a scary and very sad thing to witness in someone that you love or care about; it is generally very difficult to help someone see the truth and especially for them to truly believe and accept that reality on a long term basis.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
48. scary and sad is right
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:01 PM
Apr 2015

Even if just with people on the Internet.

It sure accomplishes their objective. Much like the little monkeys, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil

To finish the subject line of your post, just a spoon full of sugar. ...

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
52. I trust your evaluations of the situation in the US today. My question: Is this what those saying
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:07 PM
Apr 2015

both parties are the same is based on? Why we should not even bother to vote?

Now I am no longer afraid. Now I am terrified.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
64. Welcome to my world.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:33 PM
Apr 2015

I don't think the parties are the same by any means--at least on social issues: choice, LGBT & other civil rights, etc.

Even though I think both parties are acting as if they had no grasp of the direness of the world situation, there is a difference between them.

With the Republicans, the ride to Hell will be a short and painful one, all the more painful if you're a member of a sexual, racial or cultural out-group.

With the Democrats, the ride will take a little longer and won't be quite as uncomfortable, especially for the members of the "out-groups."

But the destination is the same.


I have been active to some degree in politics for more than 50 years. I was an officer in my county party organization for a number of years. These days, though, I've de-emphasized conventional politics and re-focused on a very different approach to change--namely, a change in consciousness, values, and attitudes because I have become convinced that we cannot survive unless we are able to totally re-orient ourselves into environmentally sustainable modes of living.

It sounds sappy to some when I say it, but--

We will not become a better--or even a long-term viable--species until we have outgrown our fears, tribalisms, rage addictions, and horrible confounding of wealth with merit, and replace them with more humane values based on love, nurturance, compassion and the like.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
70. Thank you. I remember when it was possible to believe in humane values based on love,
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:46 PM
Apr 2015

nurturance and compassion. They left us when the country took a liking to raygun, hate, selfishness and disinterest. That often happens when the economy is deliberately tanked.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
73. Love, nurturance, compassion, awe, all these basic life-giving emotions--
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:00 PM
Apr 2015

They come with a built-in reinforcement system. Doing good things for others, even watching a sunset--these sorts of things make you feel good. They make you happy. If people would only tune in on themselves and notice the immediate emotional consequences of their thoughts and actions, they would learn to move toward those things that make them happy.

The practice can be really simple, based on certain types of meditation and related practices. It consists of shutting out the distractors and exploring your own internal states, noticing what is really going on under your own skin. I take great hope from the rapidly growing interest in mindfulness in the west.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
118. I very much respect your opinions
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:44 PM
Apr 2015

But I disagree, to an extent, on the social differences between the parties. There are very few on the left fighting for, or even bringing up, some very serious social issues. Specifically, racism, the miniaturization of the police, seizure without reason, search without warrant, incarceration rates and length of said incarceration, the current return to debtors prison, torture in prison, etc.

The only area I see a real difference is women's rights. Even LGBT, which is my community, the left seems to be just going along because of numbers, not decency.

On edit: this is not as true at local levels

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
170. I don't especially disagree with you,
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:34 PM
Apr 2015

just trying to acknowledge that there are some differences.

I do think you're onto something there with the miniaturization of the police, though. That could be the solution. (Don't ya love Spell Check, aka Error Inserter?)

marym625

(17,997 posts)
174. lmao!
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:40 PM
Apr 2015

Oh yes! It's the best.

Mine is a homophobic prude.

Sec, lesion, hay, or has

That was actually, sex, lesbian, gay and orgasm.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
102. ^^^^^+100000000^^^^^
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:07 PM
Apr 2015

Thank you. No, it's not sappy. It's the truth.

We're trained and propagandized to cruelty. It's time to stand up, clearly and unabashedly, for something better.

Governments are supposed to serve us, not the other way around.

All of us are here on this planet for a very short time. They have tried to reidentify us as "workers," but we are human beings living the only lives we have, and we deserve much better than this.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
168. On that I think we are all feeling kind of alone and that is terrible. We are DU. We need each other
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:24 PM
Apr 2015

marym625

(17,997 posts)
169. When people start acting like bringing up legitimate issues is a bad thing
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:30 PM
Apr 2015

Then they're just playing into the hands of the gop. We should do that for all candidates. And if they can't take it from fellow liberals, they are going to be the gop's best assets.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
175. exactly
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:43 PM
Apr 2015

And an answer to aa fact that they don't like being brought up should be answered with something more than, "she's going to beat you, nah-nah-nah-nah-nah" or "doesn't matter, move along. "

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
178. That, too, is carefully cultivated.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:07 PM
Apr 2015

Last edited Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:02 PM - Edit history (1)

The propaganda is designed to make you feel alone and helpless and outnumbered.

That is why corporate posters start threads well out of proportion to their actual numbers in the community, and it's why so much of the corporate posting is deliberately baiting and insulting and makes use of swarms. The goal is to make you feel outnumbered, alone in your convictions and your memory of what government is supposed to mean and be able to do for people.

Chomsky also wrote about the deliberate creation of a society that breeds isolation and teaches people to rely on commodities for comfort and meaning in their lives:

"...The other one is not discussed so much, but I think it’s pretty important. This is an extremely atomized society. People are alone. It’s a very business-run society. The very explicit goal of the business world is to create a social order in which the basic social unit is you and your television set, in which you’re watching ads and going out to purchase commodities. There are tremendous efforts made, that have been going on for a century and a half, to try to induce this kind of consciousness and social order."


(See entire post by limpyhobbler in Good Reads: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=19730)

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
186. I can see so much of that in my life. I am 73 live in a room in one of my grandson's home. He is
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:00 PM
Apr 2015

pretty much a loner and so we are both isolated. One good thing though is that I do not watch much tv - Ed Schultz, Chris Hayes, Rachel and Lawrence O - and what really has helped in the past is this site on the computer.

I am seeing why suddenly I find myself being insulted, harassed and ridiculed here. I have a Bernie logo and I do not hesitate to disagree when I don't think something is right - like TPP.

Can you give me a name of a book that would let me learn about Chomsky's philosophy? I have read some of it here at DU but I would like to learn more.

I love the last few days - we are pulling together and having the best discussions since I joined Du.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
227. Here's Chomsky Links if you want to check out...and his You Tube Videos/interviews:
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 11:54 AM
Apr 2015

"Manufacturing Consent" was one of his first books that was very influential. But here are his others:

Amazon Books, etc: Noam Chomsky

http://www.amazon.com/Noam-Chomsky/e/B000AP81EC

----------

Noam Chomsky Videos:

https://www.youtube.com/user/akshayzz100/videos


American linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist, historian, political critic and activist, he is an Institute Professor and Professor (Emeritus) in the Department of Linguistics & Philosophy at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), where he has worked for over 50 years. In addition to his work in linguistics he has written on war, politics and mass media, and is the author of over 100 books, including the influential ‘Manufacturing consent: The political economy of the mass media’ with Edward S. Herman in 1988. According to the Arts and Humanities Citation Index in 1992, Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar from 1980 to 1992, and was the eighth most cited source overall.

He has been described as a prominent cultural figure, and he was voted the ‘World’s top public intellectual’ in a 2005 poll. Chomsky has been described as the ‘father of modern linguistics’ and a major figure of analytic philosophy. His work has influenced fields such as computer science, mathematics and psychology. He is credited as the creator of the Chomsky hierarchy, the universal grammar theory, and co-creator of the Chomsky–Schützenberger theorem. After the publication of his first book on linguistics, Chomsky became a prominent critic of the Vietnam War, and since then has continued to publish books of political criticism. He has become well known for his critiques of US foreign policy, state capitalism and the mainstream news media. He describes his views as ‘fairly traditional anarchist ones, with origins in the Enlightenment and classical liberalism’, and often identifies with anarcho-syndicalism and libertarian socialism. He is a member of the union IWW, Industrials Workers of the World.

Video at link: http://whatonline.org/en/s/what-about-the-future-noam-chomsky/

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
179. Yep. I come here
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:10 PM
Apr 2015

for the hope, too. It helps that the opposition is so transparent and repetitive in their tactics. And I get this surge of joy whenever, as in the past few days, important threads that speak truth about what is being done to us, that they try to drown out or discredit, are nevertheless massively recced and stay at the top.

We are many and the craven corporate voices are few, and manufactured. They have money, but when we finally do come together, we will run over them like a steamroller over an ant.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
176. I think the "sappifying" of discussion of love, nurturance, etc.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 08:48 PM
Apr 2015

was deliberate on the part of the Luntz-type language engineers of the RW. Mommy state, Mommy Party, etc. A pretty effective way to slow down public discussion of motives, values and emotions that run counter to the Me-First, Fuck You mentality of those who would steal our humanity from us just before staling everything else as well.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
177. I think you're right.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:02 PM
Apr 2015

I think it has been deliberate, too.

It is hard to fathom that level of human moral bankruptcy. That is why I also cannot understand those who trade their souls to shill for it.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
180. I guess they know the value of their own souls,
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:10 PM
Apr 2015

and figure they're getting a pretty good bargain when they manage to trade these withered, shriveled and pathetic little spiritual appendages of theirs for piles of lucre.

Truly, all the old myths about selling your soul to the Devil are true; the gold they get will turn to dross that cannot save them.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
182. Have I ever told you
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 09:43 PM
Apr 2015

how much I appreciate your posts?

A lot of people see what is being done to us, and a lot of people are eloquent writers, but you put them together, always, and bring the conversation to where it really needs to be.

I hope you are writing about politics in other venues, too.

Thanks for this beautiful subthread.

 

Caretha

(2,737 posts)
231. Let's call it what it really is woo me
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 08:36 PM
Apr 2015

It's straight up mafia.

Those are words that others might understand.

Check it out.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
10. Everyone needs to read this..
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:26 AM
Apr 2015

...until they get it. The repeal of Glass-Stegall and the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act set the stage for the banker-run and bankster-ruined economy we have today. These both happened on Bill Clinton's watch. In fact, Rubin was one of his right-hand men.

And people wonder why some of us are not playing this game any more.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
21. I have never been a good "capitalist."
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:09 AM
Apr 2015

I am now 59 and unemployed, and virtually unemployable. My unemployment runs out in two months, and I don't know what will happen to me then. I have a Kevorkian solution, but I sure would like to stay on this planet a while longer...

I wonder what Brooksley Born went through with these criminal cretins...

marym625

(17,997 posts)
27. I'm so sorry
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:22 AM
Apr 2015

I do know how you feel though.

I don't know if you have family but I hope, if you do, you reach out to them, or someone. I'm here for you if you want.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
62. Yup!
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:27 PM
Apr 2015

If you've got half a brain, then this should infuriate it! This is where my non-belief in an afterlife is SO frustrating. Summers and his cabal-mates need a fiery retreat to be sentenced to for eternity.

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
14. Problem for Americans
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:40 AM
Apr 2015

Few people spend time knowing the economic problems brought on by Bill Clinton and Larry Summers. Greg Palast is a very credible source, but those who have already chosen HRC will find ways of denigrating this important piece of information.

Many HRC supporters have already ignored her past, as though that had nothing to do with the decisions she would make as president that would continue America's slide into the third world.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
15. yep.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:42 AM
Apr 2015

I had asked more than a few times why this relationship is ignored. Never received a response. And, it's already on this thread.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
17. ''...to rip apart financial regulation across the planet...''
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:55 AM
Apr 2015

[font size="7"][font color="red"]TPP[/font color][/font size]

for another thing.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
26. Anybody who invites Summers into the henhouse will not get my support.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:21 AM
Apr 2015

And probably not my vote anymore.

Palast had a lot more on this letter, among other things in his book "Vultures Picnic".

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
29. The game is rigged - George Carlin was right...
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:30 AM
Apr 2015

In each election we just pick from a selection of corporate-approved puppets to give us the illusion that we still live in a democracy.

Mrs. Clinton's corporate credentials are well known, as are her husband's....

marym625

(17,997 posts)
31. Carlin had it nailed a long time ago
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:34 AM
Apr 2015

Although I agreed back then, to an extent, I still had the optimism of youth. Not anymore.

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
32. Larry Summers is a privateer.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:36 AM
Apr 2015

Stealing the peoples money and using it to line the pockets of the already wealthy.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
50. Actually, the difference between a privateer and a pirate is that the former
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:04 PM
Apr 2015

has a charter from some government authorizing them to prey on the ships of the enemy. In other words, the privateer, in contrast to the pirate, literally has a license to steal. Thus "privateer" seems especially appropriate for this gang.

appalachiablue

(41,056 posts)
53. I know, the privateer is govt-state sanctioned, the pirate isn't. But they're both Thieves.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:07 PM
Apr 2015


Gibbet, gibbeting: execution by gallows or chained in a cage. In older times criminals were hung up bound, on display, deprived of water and left to die for all to see as warning.

Captain Kidd



Gibbet with dummy inside

calimary

(80,700 posts)
34. Kicking this.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:40 AM
Apr 2015

Having gone through a little bit of the Powell Doctrine, I can believe this.

BASTARDS!!!!!

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
58. Kissinger, Summers what next Rumsfled and Rice for Hillary? How spineless Democrats go along
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:20 PM
Apr 2015

with this shit is incomprehensible. These aren't "Hard Choices" any more than a "Hard Choice" is to NOT rob the middle class.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
221. +1000
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 07:32 AM
Apr 2015

I am absolutely flabbergasted that this is ignored by so many. Ignored or excused or worse, justified. When did it become OK to rip off the American public?

I am not naive enough to think that there hasn't been control, to some extent, by the rich and powerful since the beginning. But we have always kept it in check enough to at least allow for an actual fair shake for most. Once the most started including people of color and women, along with other minorities, the powers that be just lashed back. And this is the result. A country run by corporations. And people of both parties that actually support it.

That's what ignoring, excusing and justifying does. It supports it.

Look at the backlash to the Indiana RFRA. If it had only been the people and not the corporations striking back, absolutely nothing would have changed. And even the changes do nothing as long as the people of Indiana are allowed to discriminate against LGBT people. We still are not a protected class and can be fired, denied housing, etc just because of who we are.

It sucks!

And btw, you should add Gingrich to your list.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
59. Greenspan, Summers and Bubba were the team that lobbied Congress to repeal Glass Steagall.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:20 PM
Apr 2015

That lead to the economic crash in 2008 of the US and several other nations. Not to mention his sexism.

Yet, Obama hired Summers as part of his (Obama's) initial economic and Hillary has has hired him now?

Geebus. And people get fired for coming in late.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
60. Think how different things would have been if they had just left FDR's Glass Steagall alone. The
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:27 PM
Apr 2015

money of the ordinary man would not have been touched. Now it is in the hands of the rich.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
75. Oh, silly Merrily--that was no mistake.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:07 PM
Apr 2015

Mission Accomplished.

The objectives behind the so-called crash were attained. Magnificently. The crash worked magnificently to widen the Piketty Split. Remember that nothing real was destroyed. All that happened was that some magical little electrons got moved around on a worldwide network of hard drives, and, in the end, the rich got richer and the poor got……………what they always get.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
79. Thanks for the opening. I haven't quoted Lilly Tomlin in months.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:17 PM
Apr 2015

"No matter how cynical I get, I can't keep up."

merrily

(45,251 posts)
80. That's exactly how I feel. Then again, as o 2007, I still thought all I had to do to fix the US was
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:20 PM
Apr 2015

do my damndest to make sure Democrats were elected.

"Silly merrily" is right.

I've had a lot of catching up to do.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
85. You're in good company.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:53 PM
Apr 2015

I remember the initial Obama euphoria.

I remember rationalizing Rahm's appointment. ("Keep your friends close & your enemies closer.&quot

I remember posting about about Obama's recondite strategies (AKA n-dimensional chess) when he seemed to feint toward the Republicans' positions (to lure them to their doom, I was sure).

No single-payer, no public option--well, obviously he had to get some cooperation with the insurance companies or this whole thing was going nowhere. More n-dimensional chess, maybe. But no. Certainly ACA is better than what went before, but in the implementation the insurance companies pretty much got a direct pipeline to the Treasury and a large captive client pool. The insurance companies came out OK, but the poorest got stuck with plans carrying such high deductibles and co-pays that they are essentially unusable for anything more than catastrophic insurance, which basically means that instead of insuring the patient (who will be bankrupted by the copays and deductibles), mostly works to ensure that the provider will be paid.

And, realistically, there were some things we might have wanted, but that he couldn't get through the Blue Dog-ridden Congress. (So the Administration's response was to back more Blue Dogs in 2010.)

And God, yes, things are better for the LGBT world, we avoided a war (so far) in Syria, and I don't see much more Obama could have done to oil the waters of the Middle East.

Disillusionment is a bitter herb, watered with tears.

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
108. you certainly are not alone in this. I really opened my eyes in the 2004
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:27 PM
Apr 2015

election. I thought I had been cynical before, but it was just a mild case of skepticism by comparison.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
78. K&R Some resist, some assist.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:11 PM
Apr 2015

Everything that good liberals fought for, even prior to our nations founding, have been or are being destroyed. Things that people suffered, risked punishment and even gave their lives to pass on to future generations have been gutted and left burning on the roadside by the power of corporate money. Our Triangle Shirtwaist Companies have been outsourced, our unions have been decimated, Habeas Corpus had a nice run and the environment will never recover. You have the right to give all to the corporations, to work for them and the assured destruction they bring to even the tiniest of liberal ideals and ethics. Every investment in them only strengthens the mandate they have to destroy what is left of our fragile climate and the last of our rights, for the benefit of a few and to the horror of all living things.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
81. The Obama White House is helping bankers finish the game.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 01:26 PM
Apr 2015

Look at the derivatives bailout that was forced into the year end budget bill and whipped by Jamie Dimon and Obama.

Or even more recently the TPP leaked document showing bankers will now be able to sue governments for derivatives losses.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026430716

marym625

(17,997 posts)
93. exactly!
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:19 PM
Apr 2015

There was no reason for the year end, end to Dodd-Frank. And DF didn't even go anywhere near as far as it should have.

Thanks for the link

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
94. What could motivate someone to create such devastation?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:20 PM
Apr 2015

I do not get it.

There is an answer. I won't make any overt suggestions. Use your imagination.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
113. And now that same financial elite wants us to give up our rights to a jury
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:49 PM
Apr 2015

trial in a civil lawsuit and allow complaints against our country to be heard in a kangaroo international TPP court. We made that mistake with NAFTA. Let's end that NAFTA court and opt out of the TPP court.

Trade courts are incompatible with our Constitution if they affect our economic rights or our laws.

Save our Constitution. No to the TPP.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
114. +1000
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:17 PM
Apr 2015

There has been nothing leaked that I have seen that is actually good for us in the TPP. And anything that needs to be fast tracked in secret can be good in my eyes.

PosterChild

(1,307 posts)
125. Maybe Greg Palast is Rand Paul's sorce...
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:18 PM
Apr 2015

... for the devistating scandal he claims is going to engulf Hillary very soon! Paul says the info is secret, so maybe it's another SECRET MEMO!

marym625

(17,997 posts)
187. I truly hope you are being sarcastic
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:16 PM
Apr 2015

Because if you are serious, you have a great deal to learn about many things

PosterChild

(1,307 posts)
233. Of course..
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 09:30 PM
Apr 2015

....I'm being sarcastic - but also depriciative. And it is true that I do have a great deal to learn about many , many things.

But I won't be looking to Greg Palast for enlightenment.

PosterChild

(1,307 posts)
237. For some reason . ..
Wed Apr 22, 2015, 10:15 PM
Apr 2015

... every time I'm exposed to "the truth" my bullshit detector goes off. Maybe it's just me.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
238. This truth is exactly that, truth
Thu Apr 23, 2015, 07:07 AM
Apr 2015

Do some research. Prove it wrong.

Besides the proof of what happened, Greg Palast is one of the best investigative journalists alive. He has exposed many lies perpetrated on the public for decades.

PosterChild

(1,307 posts)
239. LOL, "Prove it wrong" ...
Thu Apr 23, 2015, 08:41 PM
Apr 2015

... sorry but it's his responsibility to prove "it" right. And from the OP, it isn't even clear what "it" is. This guy can't be one of the best investigative journalists alive because first he would have to qualify as a journalist.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
242. I'm obviously correct
Thu Apr 23, 2015, 09:47 PM
Apr 2015

Your lack of knowledge when it comes to journalists, investigative journalism, what this OP tells us, and Greg Palast is obvious.

Have a great night!

marym625

(17,997 posts)
244. Again, just showing you don't know what you are talking about
Thu Apr 23, 2015, 10:04 PM
Apr 2015

And you are boring me.

Good luck with everything

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
127. I will put this as concisely as I can.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:32 PM
Apr 2015

Larry Summers should be hanged for crimes against humanity. Tomorrow.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
134. I'm good with tonight
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:41 PM
Apr 2015

Ok, not really because I am against the death penalty. But certainly locked up without access to any forms of communication outside of the prison walls

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
138. I oppose the death penalty
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:49 PM
Apr 2015

save for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Those who destroy millions of lives have forfeited their right to existence.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
128. K & R
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:33 PM
Apr 2015

Never forget who did this, and don't support them ever again. I wish more of the supporters of corporatist Dems here would understand what they are really promoting.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
153. It's a serious question that we would do well to dig into
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:08 PM
Apr 2015

What are supporters of this thinking? How do they rationalize it? If it was about whether to grudgingly vote for a corporate Democrat in the general election, I could understand it. But to support these policies, or candidates who can't wait to implement these policies, in a Democratic primary, such as our own site admin is doing, boggles the mind.

An actual inquiry into whether they're aware that is what they are supporting, whether they (the supporters on this site) support these neolib policies, and why, would do us all some good.

I think some supporters of these candidates are ignorant (this is correctable, your posts and those of others are helpful in this regard), some are aware of it but supporting the good cop so the bad cop doesn't win (the folly of this is that they are supporting the game rather than supporting an end to that game), some are doing well in this system with comfortable corporate jobs and don't want to rock the boat (a position I have a difficult time respecting), and some are actually ideologically aligned with the corporatists.

The brand of the Democratic Party is badly tarnished by associating with the likes of Summers, Geithner, Rubin, and Dimon. Those outside the party look at that and see a party owned by some of the same forrces that own the Republican party, with a lot of empty words for the electorate and a lot of policies for the 1%.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
159. If you look at some of the replies to this post
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:22 PM
Apr 2015

You'll see the answer. Though I do believe that some really don't know or get it

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
161. Yes I've seen them all a million times
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:33 PM
Apr 2015

and have had back-and-forths with more than a few about it. It's a mixed bag, like everything else. But I just don't get supporting what we supposedly don't believe in for the primaries, instead of working towards getting a better candidate (re POTUS, applicable to many races though) before we get to the lesser of two evils situation in the general.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
163. I find it abhorrent
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 07:06 PM
Apr 2015

Seriously. That and the "vote for her or fuck you" is exactly what we say we hate about the right wing nut jobs and all bots.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
164. Sadly, I think it is, to some extent, ...
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 07:46 PM
Apr 2015

the raison d'etre of this site, to solidify support for whoever the party bigwigs decide we should vote for. I hope that is not the case, but I've been here a long time and have seen little more than that from the people that run it. So long as the actual leftish types stay in line and don't act out too much, we are tolerated.

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
191. Oh yeah I left out bashing Republicans
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:33 PM
Apr 2015

That is the other raison d'etre of this place. The Republicans certainly deserve it, unfortunately making the link to similar if slightly better behavior by Dems is against the grain.

If you know of a forum where real progressive activism rather than party suppport is the focus, send me a private message please (I think such posts are either discouraged here or not allowed). I know of one or two small ones, not a lot of action there though.

I will continue here at DU to see what good can be done, and will work within their parameters, but I would also like to find a more progressive home. And though I support the social progressive issues, I am more interested in reclaiming power from corporate interests, since that seems to me to be the root of most of our problems. And I think it is necessary to find and cultivate disaffected Republicans who are being screwed by the same people we are, that is what the powers that be fear most and is why they play the good cop bad cop game, to keep us fighting each other rather than fighting them.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
147. logged in to rec
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 05:57 PM
Apr 2015

happy to see this re(re)exposed! People have no idea, generally. It was just some greedy apples.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
149. Well thank you
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 06:01 PM
Apr 2015

I sent the Palast people the link. I am not sure they'll actually read the comments but I hope so. Be good he knows how important his/their work still is to so many of us

demgrrrll

(3,590 posts)
198. This may be a naive question but if Hillary is doing the bidding of the one percent why are the Koch
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:46 PM
Apr 2015

Brothers going to spend a billion to see that she is not elected?

marym625

(17,997 posts)
200. The Kochs and their extraordinary funds
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 12:10 AM
Apr 2015

Will be spent on both parties. For congressional races, they will spend most of it on Republicans. For the presidential race, probably more will go to a Republican but we may not ever know since so much of it will be from different pockets that don't have to show what their donations are or who to.

But they are not the only ones with money. It is the wall street bankers that will be giving heavily to Clinton, just like they did for her Senate races. Goldman sachs was the largest contributor to President Obama and I am sure they won't disappoint Hillary

 

Caretha

(2,737 posts)
232. Believe me
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 08:43 PM
Apr 2015

this is the same ol' same ol', but on steriods.


T.H.I.S I.S. T.H.E. M.A.F.IA.

If you read history, and you don't have to go far back....it is really truly how the mafia has always worked. I'm not saying there aren't other elements involved, but it is almost the exact same play book that the mafia has always tried to implement. Read American history/Read the Italian history/Read JFK, etc.

They just got really successful like they have over and over again.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
236. That's very interesting
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 08:56 PM
Apr 2015

I know next to nothing about the mafia. I don't think I have even seen the entire movie, The God Father.

But what you say makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the insight

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
249. We're fucked.
Sat Apr 25, 2015, 05:34 PM
Apr 2015

Not much else to say, between this and climate change. At least, I'll live through this and I have no children whose future I have to worry about.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
250. Same here. No kids
Sun Apr 26, 2015, 07:56 AM
Apr 2015

Though I am not positive we will live through it. I have a very bad feeling about what will happen because of global warming. Everything is happening much faster than the scientists thought. I will not be surprised if we have a catastrophic event soon.

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