Please rec to show your support for the people of France, England and Greece in

[MannyGoldstein]

rejecting austerity against the 99% as the way forward.

Putting the screws to the non-hyper-wealthy is not only brutal and immoral, it has never ever been demonstrated to work:

How to End This Depression - Paul Krugman

Please rec this post if you've had enough of this austerity bullshit. Until this sickness stops, this depression doesn't stop: it's that simple.

[ProSense]

1. Krugman: The Austerity Debacle

The Austerity Debacle

By PAUL KRUGMAN

Last week the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, a British think tank, released a startling chart comparing the current slump with past recessions and recoveries. It turns out that by one important measure — changes in real G.D.P. since the recession began — Britain is doing worse this time than it did during the Great Depression. Four years into the Depression, British G.D.P. had regained its previous peak; four years after the Great Recession began, Britain is nowhere close to regaining its lost ground.

Nor is Britain unique. Italy is also doing worse than it did in the 1930s — and with Spain clearly headed for a double-dip recession, that makes three of Europe’s big five economies members of the worse-than club. Yes, there are some caveats and complications. But this nonetheless represents a stunning failure of policy.

<...>

Strange to say, however, those warnings from economists proved all too accurate. And we’re quite fortunate that Mr. Obama did not, in fact, do a Cameron.

Which is not to say that all is well with U.S. policy. True, the federal government has avoided all-out austerity. But state and local governments, which must run more or less balanced budgets, have slashed spending and employment as federal aid runs out — and this has been a major drag on the overall economy. Without those spending cuts, we might already have been on the road to self-sustaining growth; as it is, recovery still hangs in the balance.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/30/opinion/krugman-the-austerity-debacle.html?_r=1

Gotta give President Obama some credit.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. How do you feel about the massive austerity cuts that go into place Jan. 1st,

negotiated during last summer's fully-fake budget crisis?

[ProSense]

3. You mean

"How do you feel about the massive austerity cuts that go into place Jan. 1st, negotiated during last summer's fully-fake budget crisis?"

...the one that is 50 percent cuts to defense? Pretty damn good!

Boehner Backs Out Of Debt-Limit Deal

Brian Beutler

House Speaker John Boehner lent his full support Thursday to undoing a key part of the debt-limit deal he struck with President Obama and the rest of the congressional leadership last summer.

Republicans in the House, Boehner confirmed, will advance legislation to replace automatic cuts to the defense budget from taking effect on Jan. 1. Those cuts are part of an enforcement mechanism he and a majority of his members agreed to accept, but that would only be triggered if Congress was unable to pass a significant deficit-reduction bill. They included the defense cuts, intended to force GOP cooperation and domestic-spending cuts, intended to force Democratic cooperation.

The GOP’s unwillingness to accept higher tax revenue doomed that effort, and so the automatic cuts — known technically as “sequestration” — are locked in. Now Boehner and the GOP are accelerating efforts to undo the one part of the deal that they don’t like.

“We should never have had the sequester,” Boehner told reporters at his weekly press availability Thursday. “I always thought that the Super Committee had a real chance to do good work, to produce savings so that the sequester wouldn’t kick in. I think that the sequester will hurt our Department of Defense, will hurt our ability to do what Americans believe is our most basic responsibility, and that’s to provide security for the American people. I believe that Secretary Panetta believes the same thing. And for that matter, I think the White House believes that the sequester is totally unacceptable. That’s why the House will act this spring to replace that [defense] sequester. And hopefully in some time near in the future the Congress will really act to deal with our long term spending problem and our deficit problem. We can’t keep spending money we don’t have.”

- more -

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/boehner-backs-out-of-debt-limit-deal.php

Evidently, getting "98 percent" of what he wanted wasn't good enough

[MannyGoldstein]

4. And where does the other half come from? nt

[ProSense]

6. I think

"And where does the other half come from?"

...savings. Aren't you glad the Supercommittee failed?

[MannyGoldstein]

8. And what will we save money on? nt

[happerbolic]

23. How Obama and the Democrats...

...outsmarted Republicans on the debt ceiling deal:

http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-obama-and-democrats-outsmarted.html

i don't know how much of it has changed (i doubt anything has because of congressional impass)

and i think i heard (probably on TH's show) that the 2% cuts on medicare were primarily limited to medicare advantage and hospital overage charges to medicare but not to the service itself. And defense only get's a cut in it's annual increases - not cutting into the amount it already receives. lol - even Rand Paul brought this point up.

[Jakes Progress]

68. Not exactly concrete there, eh?

"I don't know" and "I think I heard"

hardly count as evidence of anything other than wishful thinking.

The cuts will come on the backs of the bottom economic members of our society. To think otherwise is to fool yourself.

[Stargazer09]

10. As the wife of a government employee,

I'm not too happy about my husband not getting paid because the GOP wouldn't compromise in good faith.

A large number of military members, including my husband, choose to continue to serve our country by working for the federal government. It's going to be ugly for our veterans, and all government employees, if sequester happens.

[girl gone mad]

16. Did Obama ever dump Plouffe?

Obama’s pivot to deficit reduction, explained

So why did Obama and Democrats pivot so hard towards deficit reduction, and away from job creation, after the 2010 elections?

The question is one of the central conundrums of the Obama presidency. The pivot led to a grueling series of standoffs with Republicans on their political turf that arguably damaged Obama further, at a time when more government action was desperately needed on jobs and the economy, the primary preoccupations of voters. We now have a new book that sheds some fresh light on what drove this pivot. And it won’t make progressives any happier.

In “Showdown,” an insider account of Obama’s response to the 2010 midterm losses, author David Corn reports on a number of behind-the-scenes disussions that led to the Dems’ emphasis on deficit reduction. Here’s what drove Obama strategist David Plouffe’s thinking (page 132)...

Plouffe was concerned that voter unease about the deficit could become unease about the president. The budget issue was easy to understand; you shouldn’t spend more money than you have. Yes, there was the argument that the government should borrow money responsibly when necessary (especially when interest rates were low) for the appropriate activities, just like a family borrowing sensibly to purchase a home, to pay for college, or to handle an emergency. But voters needed to know — or feel — that the president could manage the nation’s finances. The budget was a test of government competence — that is, Obama’s competence.

This is a reference to the “government must tighten its belt” analogy. Obama repeatedly has invoked this language, arguing that government, like families, needs to live within its means. As Paul Krugman has explained at length, this analogy is flawed on many levels. And judging by the above passage, Plouffe knew this. He knew the policy justification for the pivot was thin. But Obama’s team clearly didn’t feel they could win this argument with voters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/obamas-pivot-to-deficit-reduction-explained/2012/03/19/gIQA0l0GNS_blog.html

No. In fact he was appointed Senior Advisor!

The White House is still full of austerians last I checked.

[ProSense]

20. Plouffe

works for the campaign.

One thing is certain, the proposals are out there: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002623427

Everyone is applauding the solution: The President, Congress and voters.

Unless something gets pushed and passed, nothing happens.

Oh, Kerry and Lautenberg have proposals too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002142217

It's like Krugman states about the aftermath of France's election, now for the solution.

[Jakes Progress]

67. You got a lot of waffling and sputtering

in reply to your question. A lot of stepping about to avoid answering your question.

No. He didn't get rid of him. Obama is dancing the plouffe pirouette harder than ever.

[usrname]

5. Rec n/t

[abelenkpe]

7. K & R nt

[ProSense]

9. Here's another

good read, Krugman: Those Revolting Europeans

[RainDog]

11. k&r

[RegieRocker]

12. K&R

[JDPriestly]

13. Instead of austerity, we need big-time investment in environmentally friendly

technology and research on food production methods that don't destroy the soil but produce adequate quantities of food.

And then, we need massive education about the perils of overpopulation, not just in developed countries but also in the developing nations.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Absolutely agree!

We need to take it back and turn it around.

We need a new paradigm.

[bvar22]

57. To do THAT,

we would need to de-centralize our food production, handling, and delivery system,
and return to small, locally owned farms and farming communities.
Our government (Republicans AND Democrats) are committed to HUGE, Billion Dollar Factory Farms and Monoculture.

Monsanto is SO powerful right now that they were able to put their man in the White House as the Secretary of Agriculture.
(Google: "Vilsack ties to Monsanto&quot
Until THAT changes, nothing will change.

[socialist_n_TN]

58. Since I'm a "glass half full" type guy, this centralization.........

could be a good thing IF the people have balls enough to nationalize these food industries as a non-profit manufacturing and distribution system.

[joshcryer]

76. That requires revenue bills, which only the House can pass.

Then, we can complain when we sit home in an election and the House goes the other way, and place the onus solely on the non-dictatorial President.

[JDPriestly]

82. Trust me. I hear what you are saying. I vote every time.

But I can understand why others don't vote. The choices are pretty dismal sometimes.

[patrice]

15. K&R

[AllyCat]

17. Way to go France, England, and Greece!

Now, on to Wisconsin this Tuesday for our primary against the horrible Scott Walker.

[burrowowl]

18. K&R

[Edweird]

19. Kick & Rec

[Dragonfli]

21. K&R /nt

[Ken Burch]

22. Absolutely. Now, EVERY Democratic Party member needs to join them.

Last edited Mon May 7, 2012, 01:59 AM - Edit history (1)

Austerity and the obsession with debt are the enemies of all we believe in.

It's either us...or the banks.

[WillyT]

24. K & R !!!

[Paka]

25. k&r

Let's keep hearing from Krugman.

[Populist_Prole]

26. Rec rec rec

We can call it "occupy" here, and the beleaguered citizens of Europe can call it anything they like, but we are all 99 percenters

[ProfessionalLeftist]

27. K & R n/t

[Lugnut]

28. K&R! n/t

[pa28]

29. Yes. K&R for visibility because europe is leading the austerity charge and suffering as a result.

Let's learn from contemporary models and not repeat those mistakes.

[Luminous Animal]

30. K & R.

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. You mean "the UK", not "England"

the two are not synonymous; I live in the UK. I do not live in England. And the Tories and Lib Dems were defeated at local elections in Scotland and Wales (the biggest local-election loss for the Lib Dems was in Cardiff where they lost control of the council to Labour).

[MichaelMcGuire]

36. To be fair

Last edited Mon May 7, 2012, 10:30 AM - Edit history (1)

"You mean "the UK", not "England" the two are not synonymous"

They are used synonymously, incorrectly of course. Britain and England are used synonymously even more so. Even by the media in the UK including the BBC. It shows wonderfully how invisible the other home countries (Wales, N Ireland and Scotland) are to the English and internationally.

[DonCoquixote]

32. K and R

This may convince people that austerity is being rejected, but let's see how Fox news tries to put lipstick on this pig.

[grahamhgreen]

33. K&R!

[malaise]

34. Rec and

Kick!

[MichaelMcGuire]

35. Voting New Labour in England and Wales to fight the austerity measures doesn't make sense.

Their on record as saying:

"Labour 'can't pledge cuts reversal'

"Mr Balls said the party had to show it could maintain "fiscal discipline" if voters were to accept it offered a credible alternative to the policies of the coalition.

His comments came as Labour leader Ed Miliband used a keynote speech to declare he was ready to make the "difficult choices" necessary in economically straitened times."

"In his speech the Labour leader offered the example of Government cuts to the winter fuel allowance as one change a Labour government may be unable to reverse if the party won the next general election.

However, with the structural deficit in the public finances now forecast to continue beyond 2015, Mr Balls warned the belt-tightening would have to go much further."

"There is going to have to be cuts, there is going to have to be difficult decisions. We would have to have cuts in police, we would have to have cuts in the schools budget, we would have to have cuts in the defence budget.

"We can make no commitment to reverse any of the Government's tax rises or spending cuts because we don't know the state of the economy we are going to inherit and what the fiscal position will be." (1)

Whereas; in Scotland attempts to lessen the impact of the cuts.

Cosla joins SNP in £40m council tax benefit deal

"PLANS to cut council tax benefit will not go ahead in Scotland, after the SNP government and local council leaders decided to offset the change."

"First Minister Alex Salmond announced the Scottish Government and the local government body Cosla would provide £40 million to make up this shortfall for 2013-14 – meaning the 558,000 who receive the benefit will not suffer as a result." (2)



(1) Labour 'can't pledge cuts reversal

(2) Cosla joins SNP in £40m council tax benefit deal; http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/cosla-joins-snp-in-40m-council-tax-benefit-deal-1-2245363

[mwooldri]

66. There isn't much choice in England I'm afraid.

The Welsh have a choice in Plaid Cymru. Northern Ireland parties are independent from British ones. Yes, the SNP is a sound choice in Scotland.

England I'm afraid is back to a two party system - Labour and Conservative. The coalition agreement the Lib Dems have with the Tories has killed them politically, right from the grassroots up - and the leadership doesn't appear to have recognised it yet, despite losing over 1,000 borough, county, and district council seats since the 2010 general election.

There's also another problem: England has too many seats where you could pin a blue rosette on anyone and put them up on the ballot in the general, and that person would win. On the whole, it takes Scottish and Welsh Labour seats for the Labour Party as a whole to have a majority in Westminster - unless Labour have a spectacular year (like 1997). Otherwise in a separate England as it stands there would be a perpetual Conservative government, at least until some people wake up in England and see what's happening.

So a vote for Labour is not ideal but it is better than the alternative... and in areas where Labour is a completely lost cause only a Lib Dem revival could do anything to dent the Tories. I foresee SW England turning back blue in the next general.

Mark.

[MichaelMcGuire]

86. Lack of a credible, alternative in England. Respect did well against New Labour.

Last edited Fri May 11, 2012, 09:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Regardless of what I think of GG.

//There's also another problem: England has too many seats where you could pin a blue rosette on anyone and put them up on the ballot in the general, and that person would win. On the whole, it takes Scottish and Welsh Labour seats for the Labour Party as a whole to have a majority in Westminster - unless Labour have a spectacular year (like 1997). Otherwise in a separate England as it stands there would be a perpetual Conservative government, at least until some people wake up in England and see what's happening. //

I've heard this before and when I looked at the numbers. It shows England/UK is more than able to return a New Labour Government without Scotland then they want one. Only two times have Scottish MPs given Labour a majority e.g. 1964 and 1974. That they wouldn't already have without Scottish MPs. (1)

(1) Why Labour doesn't need Scotland



SW England is 'Essex-man' through and through, the 3 main parties pander to his politics.

[DLevine]

37. Huge K&R. n/t

[deutsey]

38. K&R

[DutchLiberal]

39. I certainly don't support the outcome in Greece, which gave the right big victories.

In Greece, a conservative party became the biggest. Besides that, the extreme-right neo-nazi party got 8% of the vote, which means they'll be in parliament for the first time in 40 years. These are politicians who wear White Pride-emblems on their shirts; have the pictures of the fascist colonels of the 1960's on their walls; and have Mein Kampf on their bookshelves. They even have fighting crews patrolling the streets. (And none of that is hyperbolic either; it's literally happening.)

Furthermore, this wasn't a conscious decision of the people in England and France to vote for the left-wing parties because they really have started to believe in them or they now underline their ideological backgrounds. No, just like in all the other EU countries, they're just voting those in power out and vote the other side in. Had a socialist been president of France, he would now have been voted out in favor of a right-winger. It's got nothing to do with an 'awakened' electorate. If the people in Europe had really been awake, they would have never elected Cameron or Rajoy (Spain) in the first place. Rajoy came into power when the 'socialists' (lol) there were voted out of office. It's just a changing of the guards; it doesn't have any other far-reaching meaning than that.

[MannyGoldstein]

42. It's like the US elections for the past 6 years

One party takes charge, things get worse for the 99%, then we vote the other party in and things get worse for the 99%, then we vote...

Let's hope that Europe ultimately fares better.

[socialist_n_TN]

60. What about Syriza in Greece?..........

It looks like they're going to come in second to the New Dems and they are a VERY left wing anti-austerity grouping. And the KKE won more seats than the Nazis.

Although I do agree with the premise that people were voting AGAINST the in power parties for the most part. This has been a continuing theme over the last few years. Much more of a theme than left vs right.

[DutchLiberal]

72. Exactly! I WISH it had been about the working class awaking and flocking to the left for ideological

reasons. But that's sadly not the case.

Syriza has made big gains and is the second party, yet the New Democrats are the biggest party, which is a conservative party. The Pasok party is about as socialist as Obama. I don't see much hope for the left in Greece. I think a lot of people on DU are engaging in wishful thinking.

[Vidar]

40. K&R

[Autumn]

41. Rec. I want some of that over here

[lunatica]

43. kick'd and rec'd

When the rich and corporations get to do the austerity thing too I might change my mind. There's plenty of money to go around, but unfortunately the rich are the ones getting all of it, so maybe they're the cause of the problem.

[bvar22]

59. Nailed IT!

...AND there are powerful forces arrayed to make it very difficult for these Populist Revolutions to succeed,
beginning with the IMF, the WTO, the G-8, and the Global Banks.

Good Luck to my brethren in the trenches in England, Greece and France today!
The Jackboots of Austerity WILL try to crush you!

[TBF]

44. Solidarity nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

45. K&R. Very happy to see it!

Yes!

[malthaussen]

46. How many times can I rec?

I'll support "austerity" when millionaires start digging into their own pockets.

-- Mal

[LeftishBrit]

47. Thank you from England!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

48. Hopefully, those in France, England and Greece follow the Icelanders and prosecute some banksters.

In this country, no top bank executives have faced criminal prosecution for their roles in causing the subprime mortgage meltdown.

Not one.

Let's hope that those in France, England and Greece can get some of the international banksters. Of course if they do, the international banksters will probably defend themselves with some of the bonuses that they received from our bailouts.

[DeSwiss]

49. K&R n/t

[Sea-Dog]

50. It has no doubt already been said.

You need to learn the difference between England and the UK. Other than that Rec for support.

[LeftishBrit]

51. Good point -the rejection of this government policies was by no means confined to England!

It was more noticeable in England, simply because Scotland and Wales had already turned against the Tories under Thatcher, and never really went back to them to any extent; but the rejection of Cameronism was indeed a UK-wide phenomenon!

[hedgehog]

52. Aux Armes Citoyens!

[idwiyo]

53. K&R

[Bryn]

54. K&R

[bvar22]

55. Here!

When the Working Class & The Poor realize WE have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the 1% Plutocrats & their employees in Washington,
WE can have "change" too!!!

[backscatter712]

56. K&R with a caveat...

Greeks unfortunately gave the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party 7% of the vote, giving them seats in parliament.

http://rt.com/news/golden-dawn-parliament-greece-715/

[redqueen]

61. Ireland, too?

Either way, K&R

[Hell Hath No Fury]

62. Fuck austerity.

[Zorra]

63. We need a vaccine that will eradicate fascism from the planet forever.

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

We are the 99%!

[Jack Rabbit]

64. K/R

!!

[myrna minx]

65. K&R!

[LiberalLoner]

69. K&R!!

[zzaapp]

70. Have you ever noticed

That when Krugman is on a talk show and someone asks him a question, he'll tilt his head back and stare up in the air like he's awaiting directions from the Mothership?

[Skittles]

73. more likely

he is sick of having to explain the obvious to conservative fucking CLUELESS ASSHOLES

[zzaapp]

81. LOLOLOL, you are probably right !

[lunatica]

77. That's because he's gathering his thought to give a thoughtful response

Something the Republicans either never learned to do or forgot how to do what with their rote spewing of "talking points" for every answer. They don't have to gather their thoughts because someone has already told them what to answer.

I don't know. Maybe you find that impressive.

[zzaapp]

80. I'm sorry Lunitica, find what impressive?

[Skittles]

83. talking points for dittoheads

no one here is fooled, zzaapp

[zzaapp]

87. LOLOLOLOLOL

Say it slowly to yourself...."I'm not fooled...I'm not fooled"
Repeat as often as necessary.

[Skittles]

88. um...zzaapp? I am not a dittohead

so I do not do stuff like that

[zzaapp]

89. FYI......there are four Ms in ummmm

[lsewpershad]

71. K&R

[Better Believe It]

74. K & R

[freshwest]

75. Poverty is Warfare. The Spanish had a phrase for it that went something like,

The war of the day or the war of the night, they are both war.

Meaning, they war with us by taking from us in the times we call peace, and killing us in battles to protect their takings in the times we call war.

This war is old and never over. Here is radio cast that starts slow, but is almost all Parenti. What he's saying is clear and easy to understand, stated very simply:

Michael Parenti - No War But the Class War

Part 1:

Part 2:

Whether we agree with his conclusions or not, since he's a socialist, he's got it right. We shouldn't run from what they're doing. He says on another video:

Michael Parenti - Creating The Poor?

"To oppose the policies of a government does not mean you are against the country or the people that the government supposedly represents. Such opposition should be called what it really is: democracy, or democratic dissent, or having a critical perspective about what your leaders are doing. Either we have the right to democratic dissent and criticism of these policies or we all lie down and let the leader, the Fuhrer, do what is best, while we follow uncritically, and obey whatever he commands. That's just what the Germans did with Hitler, and look where it got them."

The Republicans are dragging us down this path and we must resist in every election, from the town dogcatcher, school board, every agency and city, county, state and up.

[arely staircase]

78. kr nt

[MrMickeysMom]

79. K&R

Manny, I certainly have...

Let's call it what it is.... Time to be OVER.

[Uncle Joe]

84. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Manny.

[Posteritatis]

85. Pity about the twenty-one unreconstructed Nazis the Greeks elected, though. (nt)