Obama compared liberal TPP complaints to rumors of "death panels" during Obamacare debate

[madfloridian]

This article from National Journal links to Democratic Underground.

I am very upset when our Democratic leaders talk like that. Opposing the trade agreement that would likely take away our sovereignty makes us as liberals nothing at all like the tea party right.

This trade deal seems so serious a step that I would say that if it passes our votes would mean very little from then on.

He was speaking to an OFA group.

Obama Compares Progressive Opposition to Trade Deal to ‘Death Panels’ as the Left Ramps Up Opposition

"If you were watching MSNBC and all this stuff, and you're thinking, 'Oh, man, I love Obama but what's going on here?'" the president joked. Obama tried to reframe the deal as part of his push for what he calls "middle-class economics," which he said was "the idea that this country does best when everybody gets their fair shot, everybody does their fair share, everybody plays by the same set of rules."

Obama also called the deal "the most progressive trade agreement in our history," adding that it has labor and environmental enforcements. Obama compared the liberal complaints to the rumors of "death panels" during the Obamacare debate.

But the line was seen as a slap in the face to some progressives.

"It's shameful to see President Obama compare Democrats who oppose fast-tracking the TPP through Congress to Sarah Palin and the delusional 'death panels' rhetoric," said Charles Chamberlain, executive director of Democracy for America, in a statement. "Frankly, it's beneath this president to resort to such name-calling."

And the link to a post here:

The speech is the latest effort in the Obama team's hard sell to progressives. A group of former Obama campaign officials have also started a pro-TPP group called the Progressive Coalition for American Jobs. On Friday, George Zornick of The Nation tweeted that Obama joined a press call with Labor Secretary Thomas Perez on Friday, and criticized politicians who "send emails out to their fundraising base that they're working to stop a secret deal," a not-so-subtle shot at Warren.

More recently, Organizing for Action sent out an email about TPA that Democratic Underground posted trying to explain the importance of the legislation. The email also argued that the term "fast track" for TPA was a misnomer because TPA would have to go through Congress like any other bill.

Well, now, to quote Elizabeth Warren recently... "We're Not Allowed To Talk About" TPP Specifics, Process Is "Rigged"

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN: They're asking us to vote now on greasing the skids, so that we give up now any chance to be able to amend it, any chance to be able to block it or slow it down. Give all that up, and then you'll get to see the deal on the other side...

We can talk about the facts that the American people can't see, but there is one fact the American people can see; how the negotiation process worked.

These negotiations have been going on for a long time and there are 28 different working groups for it. 85% of the people in those working groups are senior executives in various industries that will be affected or lobbyists for those industries.

They're the ones who helped shape the deal, they're the ones who determine what the deal is going to look like on the other side. My view is, when the process is rigged, the outcome is likely to be rigged.

Negotiations have been so secretive, it pretty much says it is not at all about the people...and everything about the power players.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. Interesting point. He's actually starting to sound like one of the

bloggers who agree with him on TPP. At this rate, he'll be accusing the opposition of wanting 'Republicans to win' soon, despite the fact that the Republicans are on his side in the TPP fight.

[JimDandy]

45. How sad that Democrats ARE what he considers to be his opposition. n/t

[nationalize the fed]

2. Senator Bernard Sanders

The "Racist" card is coming...Just like when people that opposed the Right Wing Heritage Foundation Health Insurance Ripoff were called "Racists" because we didn't think everyone should be mandated to buy corporate insurance without a public insurance option (Which Obama promised)

[WDIM]

3. If Obama thinks its such a good deal.

Then it should be debated openly instead of fast tracked and forced down the throats of the american worker.

The Republicans are going to give Obama exactly what he wants for once. The TPP is already a done deal and nothing we do is going to stop it because the ones in charge like Obama dont really care what we think.

The Corporate States of American. The workers are sold out again.

[okaawhatever]

5. It will be debated openly. I don't know how a trade agreement that involves 12 countries and 28

working groups could possibly deal with amendments from each country. They will have a chance to votea against it if they don't like it.

[Omaha Steve]

36. Deaths panels to the middle class may not be a bad description at all

Why give up Congress's constitution power to be involved in negotiating this?

What POTUS wants to do is an up or down vote ONLY. There are enough R's in control to get it passed without any D's if that happens.

[okaawhatever]

47. Congress voted to approve the Fast Track rules. No one has taken away from them their

Constitutional rights, they have amended them.

No, if the Senate Dems use the filibuster they can keep it from being passed.

There is no way Congress could ever debate all the points of a trade agreement with 12 countries. It took 8 years as it was. People who are arguing against fast track I suspect just want to see the thing defeated and they know that's the easiest way.

[TheKentuckian]

106. There was no amendment of the Constitution that is misinformation and fucking A kill the thing dead

otherwise the TeaPubliKlans will push it through when an agreement of this magnitude should only be allowed passage via the treaty process not forcefeed through on a bare majority.

They are subverting the constitution not amending it.

[dsc]

125. no filibuster if fast track passes

part of fasttrack is no filibuster.

[zeemike]

48. And if they did need a few D votes they have ways of geting them.

And money is just one.

[peacebird]

70. Sadly my Senator Mark Warner is eager to pass TPP. He doesn't give a rats ass about people

He got HIS after all.....

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

102. Was NAFTA fast tracked? IDK From a practical standpoint is it impossible to negotiate

with a dozen other countries while Congress is changing the document being negotiated?

[still_one]

80. It will. It will allow an up or down vote after the debate, but no amendments

[fasttense]

131. If fast track is passed, only a countdown of 60 days will be allowed and NO changes can be made.

I do NOT consider a 60 day countdown and no changes allowed to be an open debate. What is the use of debating anything that can't be changed? Vote yes or no, end of debate.

If the negotiators can not deal with so many changes than maybe we need better negotiators or better yet, scrap the agreement because it is way too cumbersome to work with.

It's all those corporate lawyers and lobbyists who have been trying to hide within the deal all sorts of gotchas for the American people that really can't abide changes. They got it worded just right with a few hidden ands and ors they know who's getting screwed and it ain't the corporate elite.

[arcane1]

4. I'd love to see the actual quote, though I'd likely regret it n/t

[madfloridian]

6. Found the video, but haven't watched it yet.

National Journal is usually a reliable source.

[madfloridian]

14. He says if we oppose this we approve of "status quo". Just like he said about education reform.

[liberal_at_heart]

33. What he said about education reform critics really pissed me off.

This pisses me off too. How did we the people become the enemy? Business leaders are considered allies and partners. We the people are just bothersome flies that don't know what we are talking about and want the status quo.

[MidschoolLiberal17]

129. Well, you know.....

The right wing media were heavy advocates of Big Business during the Shrub era, and look where are we now.... the Pukes in Congress are looking for ways to screw us up and enrich their already rich business friends so they can help them during their re-election campaigns...

[haikugal]

55. More BS....neoliberal BS

[Nay]

84. Some of us approve of the status quo not because we love the status quo, but because

we see that things can get much worse than the status quo. . .and we don't want to go there.

[BeanMusical]

136. WTF?

[arcane1]

34. Thanks! I may watch it later when I get home.

Assuming I can handle it.

[madfloridian]

40. Most of the words about our opposition are in 2nd half. I think this is a done deal.

I swear he does not sound sincere about this issue. I am now thinking it is a done deal, has been a done deal, and that global corporations already have the upper hand.

And the choice is no longer ours.

[F4lconF16]

7. http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/liberals-furious-obamas-trade-comments

“When people say that this trade deal is bad for working families, they don’t know what they’re talking about,” Obama said Thursday. “So I take that personally. My entire presidency has been about helping working families.”

“Some of these folks are friends of mine. I love them to death. But in the same way that when I was arguing for health care reform I asked people to look at the facts – somebody comes up with a slogan like ‘death panel,’ doesn’t mean it’s true. Look at the facts. The same thing is true on this. Look at the facts. Don’t just throw a bunch of stuff out there and see if it sticks,” the president added.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. that's depressing he sunk to that level of debate

I expected a more honest statement from him on where in the treaty he can back up his claims vs NAME CALLING.

[arcane1]

12. You just need to "look at the facts!" I'm sure they're around here somewhere...

Or something like that

[mmonk]

21. +1

[GoneFishin]

15. The fact that he kept his comments vague and fact free tells me plenty.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. he's usually better in a prepared speech than this...... I don't think he wrote it

this wasn't off the cuff. This was considered phrasing with the highest level of his advisers.

He's extremely smart but this one was dumb.

[arcane1]

11. Thanks. I sure would love to look at those facts he keeps mentioning!

But I can't for some odd reason.

[kath]

30. Secret facts! What a wonderful concept!!

[arcane1]

32. They ARE wonderful! Just look at them!

[Enthusiast]

134. Gather them up and sing their praise!

Yay, secret facts!

[Oilwellian]

109. LOL...a new Third Way meme is born!

[Scootaloo]

120. Shades of "Known Unknowns," innit? n/t

[madfloridian]

121. lol

[Oilwellian]

108. How can one look at the facts...

when the documents aren't available to us?

This is called talking out of one's ass.

[cui bono]

8. Ah, so that's where that came from. Someone used that on me here on DU.

Sorry, anyone who thinks that's the same thing is braindead, brainwashed or completely disingenuous.

[Vinca]

9. The POTUS should follow one rule: if the GOP wants it, it must be bad for the little guy.

[lewebley3]

13. If its a good Deal, and nothing to worry about then publish it!!

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2015, 10:41 AM - Edit history (1)

It cannot be published; because it would sink it. Death panels are easy to understand:
the TPP is not simply a death panel.

[jwirr]

20. In fact if they publish it I suspect that we would not have to do anything to sink it. The people in

the other countries don't know what is in it either. Look at the protests in the EU.

[liberal_at_heart]

24. Damn right! Publish it. Give Congress a chance to debate it, and give the people a chance to tell

their Congressmen what they think about what's in it. It should be treated like any other bill. Why is this bill so special that it doesn't have to go through the same channels as all the other bills? If our Congressmen don't have a say in it, if we don't have a say in it, then it is not democracy.

[Baitball Blogger]

17. Obama is in need of a few vowels and consonants.

I'll fill in the blanks for him:

S-E-C-R-E-C-Y

As an attorney I'm sure he would never advise a client to go along with a contract where the Ts and Cs are not available for review.

It's elementary.

[JDPriestly]

44. Thank you. Needed to be said.

[haikugal]

63. And we all know it...so he insults us, par for his course.

He doesn't represent me, AGAIN!

[madfloridian]

104. .....

[gordianot]

18. TPP is getting killed on White House Facebook.

It sounds DU'ish to me.

[ananda]

56. I went there and wrote this:

We need to see it in its entirety before any decisions are made. Period.

[rhett o rick]

19. k & r. Thanks for posting. nm

[sendero]

22. Wow....

.... if only Obama could have mustered anything close to this passion when we needed it to get the public option.

Guess his owners didn't care so much about getting that done.

[cali]

23. Contemptible, Mr.President- and dumb. Not to mention it seems panicky

This kind of language will do nothing to convince progressive or public interest groups

[arcane1]

37. Maybe they should suggest we "eat our peas" next.

[haikugal]

64. Or talk about our pony and unicorns....

[erronis]

94. More likely, drink our koolaid dearies.......

[progressoid]

25. If it's so damn great, have a press conference and show us what's in it.

[liberal_at_heart]

26. Yeah. If it is as great as he says it is you think he would want to show it off.

Show us how great it is Mr. President.

[deutsey]

29. Damn straight...lay it out if it's so great n/t

[Snotcicles]

43. Antonio Porchia: Convince me, but without convictions. Convictions no longer convince me. nm

[Maedhros]

27. This TPP kerfluffle is really revealing Obama's true nature. [n/t]

[sendero]

38. Some of us..

.... figured "talk one way, act another" Obama out a long time ago.

It's hilarious he would try to play the "I'm offended" card about worker's concerns. His administration has done damn little for the 99% beyond offering some admittedly powerful rhetoric.

I'm offended that he campaigned as a progressive and hasn't remotely live up to his promises. I'm offended that he has not one time in 6+ years gotten off his ass and really tried to make something happen, until now.

[MissDeeds]

46. I agree completely

He's showing his true colors now, and it's not good. I knew he was a Trojan horse from the get-go. Never in my life have I been so disappointed to be proven right.

[zeemike]

57. Not me, I actually believed him

And believed the meme that in his second term things would start to cook once he did not have to face election...I believed that until the first thing out of his mouth after the election was Chained CPI...then I knew I got fooled again.

Now I know.

[MissDeeds]

69. Sorry zeemike

but that's on him. Running as one candidate and governing as another is callous and deceitful. Many good people wanted to believe in the "hope and change" meme. His presidency started with such promise; it's sad it didn't live up to the hype.

[Enthusiast]

135. Just wait until he really goes after "entitlements".

Eat your peas!

[asiliveandbreathe]

28. WH petition picking up steam today

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-public-entire-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-pact-allowing-our-us-representative-agree-its-terms

Have at it ....

[JDPriestly]

42. Signed.

[asiliveandbreathe]

53. Glad to be of service to my fellow/lady Americans..

I am a strong supporter of the President...I just don't happen to agree on this issue..we need more information...will try to find the house vote on Fast track....be well...

[haikugal]

72. Signed...

[AzDar]

31. K & R &...

[frylock]

35. weak sauce, Mr. President

[christx30]

39. Anyone that's suprised by his attitude shouldn't be.

Not after his glowing support of the indefinate detention in the NDAA. And how when a judge struck it down, he fought and got it reinstated.
And how we're all just supposed to trust him. "I'm giving the government the power to detain someone for however long we want. But I'm not going to use this power. Trust me. Wink."

[JDPriestly]

41. Obama: Let us see the agreement if you are so proud of it. Let us judge

for ourselves.

[madfloridian]

49. Great site about explaining trade agreements.

Thanks to WillyT for linking to it.

http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/

This Free Trade cartoon:

[Thespian2]

50. Obama will leave a legacy...

Screwed Americans...over and over...with TTIP and TTP...I got TPP fast-tracked so I wouldn't have to worry about the TTIP...I made sure global corporate owners could control every country...I kicked the shit out of democracy...I stomped on unions...I made life intolerable for poor people...I imprisoned whistle-blowers...I killed loads of people with drone strikes...I made sure health care would continue being controlled by insurance companies...etc., etc., etc....

Great legacy!! Bye Bye American Pie.

[Sunlei]

51. seems about the same to me. both death panels and tpp histerics started by RW media and then they

slink away and let it ripen in the liberallands.

omg, let it go to congress for debate one poster said

[cali]

66. grab a clue..... or two. the rw media majorly supports the tpp

as do most congressional republicans. Most dems oppose it. All labor unions oppose it, as do most public interest groups and every major environmental group.

[Sunlei]

68. I know Corps are republicans period. I'm all for global trade with those other countries.

[madfloridian]

95. "slink away and let it ripen in the liberallands."

[Sunlei]

127. I imagine DU as the last Island for D discussion. It's also a place where Rs lay their eggs in our

nests to see who pays attention or perhaps other Ds? think its their egg & fight for that cowbird egg.

What I really wish is like before digg was bought out by the rw (4 months before the election) our O-admin. would register & post a couple answers in some of the threads. ask them, you never know.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

[eridani]

124. Explain why the right wing media and right wing congresscritters LIKE TPP n/t

[Sunlei]

128. because slave labor increases corp profits and slavery is still legal, even in America.

[msanthrope]

132. Bingo. nt

[ananda]

52. Boy he's really laying the bullcrap on thick...

It makes me wonder why he's so desperate to get this very
bad pact passed.

I have some ideas, and they are not nice.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. Really ...

I am very upset when our Democratic leaders talk like that. Opposing the trade agreement that would likely take away our sovereignty makes us as liberals nothing at all like the tea party right.

Re-read that. How is that any different from the tea party opposing the ACA saying that the ACA would result in death panels?

The only difference is the (newly added, hedge word) "likely." Neither, is (was) based in anything other than conjecture and speculation fueled opinion ... if for no other reason, those making the claim do not know what is in the trade agreement.

[madfloridian]

58. If other nations can sue us over our policies, then we are no longer in charge of ourselves.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sovereign+nation

http://boingboing.net/2015/03/26/tpp-leak-states-give-companie.html

[1StrongBlackMan]

75. Other nations have ALWAYS been able to sue the US over its policies ...

this is nothing new, from the 20th century, to the present. And the US has yet to lose a claim.

[treestar]

112. Plus I would assume that the US sues other nations due to their policies

This whole structure of talking points is being built up out of nothing. Using people's ignorance against them to make them afraid of a trade agreement. Just absurd.

[1StrongBlackMan]

115. +1. n/t

[LiberalLovinLug]

83. And US corporations can also sue more liberal countries for "loss of profits"...

It will go like NAFTA which has similar provisions. In fact it will expand upon it.

We in Canada are familiar with this..

In Canada we have laws that allow generic drug versions to be available sooner than the pharmaceutical companies would like. One reason why we have cheaper prices. So they are suing...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/04/eli-lilly-lawsuit-nafta-canada_n_3861869.html

But Eli Lilly argues Canadian courts have been overzealous in striking down drug patents in recent years, and the rulings — which the company says have already cost it $1 billion — could force the company out of Canada.
.............

Under Chapter 11 of the North American Free Trade Agreement, companies in one NAFTA country can sue the government of another NAFTA country for “regulatory expropriation.” That can be interpreted to mean a loss of value to the company — such as lower profits — due to actions taken by the government.



Then there is Fracking Companies mad that Quebec has passed a moratorium on fracking in their province so they are suing...

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2012/11/27/corporation-uses-nafta-sue-canada-250-million-over-fracking-ban

A US company is taking advantage of a corporate-friendly NAFTA provision in suing the Canadian government for over $250 million due to lost profits from Quebec's moratorium on fracking.

And under the TPP....it will be worse!

They add that these corporate-friendly trade practices are expected to increase under the secretive Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) being secretly negotiated now:

Amazingly, instead of looking for ways to scale back and eliminate the rules in our trade agreements that threaten public interest policies in favor of corporate profits, eleven countries, including the United States and Canada, are currently in the middle of negotiations to expand the NAFTA investment rules in the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. Under the Trans-Pacific Partnership, our air and our water could be threatened by more cases like this one. Governments must stop writing and signing trade pacts that put the interests and profits of corporations above the well-being and rights of communities.

.................

You can see where this is all going...Its like cutting legs off of a table one by one because some corp doesn't think the have a level playing field. Eventually whittled down to the lowest common standard for labour, environmental, health standards in every country.

[Ichingcarpenter]

89. great post and rebuttal

just wait till the banksters start suing nations.

[madfloridian]

91. Eli Lilly sues Canada over generics. US company sues Canada to allow fracking....

Wow, a very slippery slope which sounds like it will worsen with TPP.

[nenagh]

96. I would like to know if the Drs Without Borders TPP video is correct to state that patent protection

for drugs will be extended if the formulation, dosage etc is changed despite whether the resultant formulation is more efficacious for the patient or not.

eg, pantoprazole sodium is generic in Ontario. Pantoprazole magnesium, manufactured much later, is a Brand name drug..

If the Dr Without Borders video is correct, it would seem that both the original pantoprazole sodium formulation and the later magnesium formulations would both have patent drug brand name protection, essentially creating a situation whereby original drug formulation or dosage could be continually tweaked for forever patent protection...without having to prove greater patient efficacy of the newer modified formulation.

[madfloridian]

103. I think so, yes. Also may dictate to doctors about certain surgical procedures.

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/tpp-trade-deal-will-be-devastating-access-affordable-medicines

The part about the surgical procedures is right at the end.

[nenagh]

105. Thank you madfloridian... for posting the video as well... I don't know the US patent drug system..

but worked and now retired in Ontario...

If the intellectual property rights section of the TPP allows patent drug protection to morph from coverage of the original chemical molecule... to include modifications/ tweaks to formulations & new dosage formulations to have prolonged patent protection surely the increased costs might destabilize health insurance plans due to increased costs...as well as increased patient costs for health care.

Where are the extra $$ to come from? Either the patient..or the health plans.

but... I just realized that Pres Obama would long be out of office before the additional costs of the prolonged drug patent protection would really begin to be effected. So, as the baby boomer #'s decline, increased profits from extended brand name patent protection would be insured...so to speak.

I'm beginning to understand it now...

Thank you madfloridian for your continued info re teaching in Florida.. and testing...always enjoy your OP's and comments.

[Oilwellian]

110. Yes, they can put a drug on the market starting in tablet form

A few years later they release it in the form of a gel cap and that extends the patent.

This will cost lives.

[arcane1]

71. The death panel thing was a lie. That's the main difference.

[1StrongBlackMan]

77. And the "Other nations can sue the US over our policies" is ...

nothing new from the 20th century, to the present. Both, "complaints" are based in hyperbole.

[yeoman6987]

86. My main issue with the video is that he is

Basically comparing Liberals to Sarah Palin like we are the same. That's quite insulting.

[arcane1]

90. Exactly. n/t

[madfloridian]

79. We SHOULD know what is in the agreement. Why is it so secretive?

And why are those of us who point out possible implications considered disloyal? This trade deal will obviously change our country, and we need to know more.

Sometimes you just have to accept that some policies may not be good for our nation.

[1StrongBlackMan]

81. I agree ...

We SHOULD know what is in the agreement.

And we will ... once it is in its final form.

Why is it so secretive?

Because just about every international negotiation has been negotiated in secret ... since the formation of the union.

And why are those of us who point out possible implications considered disloyal?

Disloyal?

This trade deal will obviously change our country, and we need to know more.

Possibly, for the worse; or, possibly for the better.

Sometimes you just have to accept that some policies may not be good for our nation.

That has never been a problem for me ... I just refuse to claim something good or bad, without know what the policy IS (not, might be ... not what someone else thinks or might be). Why is that so difficult to accept/understand.

Let me ask ... as a teacher, were you ever a part of your union's contract negotiation team?

[madfloridian]

85. Until they tell us what it's about openly and publicly, I refuse to accept it.

The answer to your question is yes. But that was before Florida became a right to work state...teachers were forbidden to strike. Things were different then.

[1StrongBlackMan]

92. Okay, but ...

Until they tell us what it's about openly and publicly, I refuse to accept it.

You are willing to accept, even argue about, someone else's "interpretation" of what it is about ... knowing that you do not have complete information?

The answer to your question is yes.

Good. Two more questions:

1) Those contract negotiations were done behind closed doors, right? And any information communicated by you (the union team) to your membership was done quietly, unofficially (i.e., without providing any documents), and done on a "trust me" basis. Right?

2) What would your (the union negotiating team's) response have been to the School District's "leaking" of pre-agreement documents, and saying the pre-agreement terms were the agreement?

[TheKentuckian]

107. If the deal sucks, one you have fast tracked how would you stop the TeaPubliKlans from passing it?

Not even a 100% Democratic hard line can even slow the train rolling was it leaves the station.

The wicked TeaPubliKlans want the thing, it is in no way a device to keep them from mucking it up, it is to squeeze it through with the minimum conceivable difficulty and to prevent Democrats from shutting it down.

If this shouldn't be actually going through the formal treaty process and requirements then what the hell should?

It is willfully subverting the constitution for the benefit of the wealthy which is why the whole process was invented not in any shape for or fashion for the benefit of the people here or abroad.

The whole deal is an out of control meltdown once it is allowed to start.

[Octafish]

59. What won't stand the light of day is not good for democracy.

They're rushing TPP down everybody's throat for a reason, and the 99-percent ain't it.

[madfloridian]

113. .....

It's almost frantic they are in such a hurry about it.

[Octafish]

119. Reminds me of the Bankster Bailout.

Their contempt for those who ask what's in it parallels their avoidance of those who point out no one's seen it because it's secret.

[HereSince1628]

60. Nothing will really be shared...until the right to amend the agreement is lost.

This isn't the transparency promised.

We need to fulfill Obama's request to keep his feet toasty in front of a fire.

This is what failure to keep promises of transparency looks like.

[99th_Monkey]

138. We can only HOPE the "Transparency President" will CHANGE his mind. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

61. If it's so great, release the entire TPP to the public now. And stop the Fast "hurry up and vote

on it before the public sees that they're getting screwed" Track.

[Hekate]

62. All that hyperbole eventually gets a reaction like that. ODS is like The Boy Who Cried "Wolf!"...

Eventually the villagers stop coming to the faked calls, and when the wolf does come ODS Boy is on his own.

I don't know how far I can take this old Aesop's fable, but I do know that from even before Obama took office, then when he was sworn in and every day thereafter, people on this very site were absolutely SURE that Obama had thrown the LGBT community under the bus, those who desired health care under the bus, those who wanted the US to pull out all the soldiers from everywhere immediately under the bus, women under the bus, minorities under the bus, was going to appoint conservative white males to the SCOTUS, his LGBT appointments were closeted/fake because they didn't march up to their swearing-in waving a rainbow flag.

No matter what Obama tried to achieve and did achieve, it was the wrong thing, it was done the wrong way, he didn't really mean it, he lied to us.

Except he didn't lie to us and every day he went to his desk and got the job done, a bit more every day, and still does.

So at a certain point, I no longer believe what I read here. And at a certain point, I really cannot blame no-drama Obama for starting to snipe back at his supposed supporters on the left as well as his sworn enemies on the right.

[madfloridian]

73. I am not a "supposed supporter". Another link to read.

My late hubby and I supported him fully both elections. We did so with donations and on the ground work as well.

I never thought a Democratic president would go so far as to dismantle public education and shame public school teachers.

I never thought another Democratic president would push so hard for a trade deal as Clinton did for NAFTA. But Obama seems to be unaware that we are not allowed to know what is in the deal.

I have been a "real" Democrat and a real supporter who differs with him on some issues and speaks out about it.

https://wikileaks.org/tpp-investment/press.html

[Sunlei]

78. Thank you.

For a while I was worried he wouldn't even care to run for the second term.

[MannyGoldstein]

65. That's simply offensive.

Us and our "@#$&ing retarded" ideas as the White House called them (and has not retracted).

Shame.

[gcomeau]

67. Actually...

"Opposing the trade agreement that would likely take away our sovereignty... "

...when you make statements like that with no clue what is actually in the agreement, you sound exactly like the death panel crowd.

[madfloridian]

74. See my above post on the subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6561456

[liberal_at_heart]

76. parts of the TPP have been leaked thankfully. That is the only way we have been able to find out

anything about it. If Obama loves this trade agreement so much, he needs to publish it, let Congress debate it, and give the American people a chance to tell their representatives what they think of it. That is how our democracy is suppose to work.

[gcomeau]

139. No parts that "take away our sovereignty".

So my comment stands.

[rock]

82. Wow, I'm certainly not going to broach the matter of

what color the U.S. should get for kitchen drapes. It seems that a political discussion can no longer be carried on by civilized people in this country (thanks to the conservatives who are bereft of ideas, reason, and sanity and therefore have no other way to argue).

[Ichingcarpenter]

87. conservatives want this bill

do you?

[rock]

97. No, I don't

But there's no reason to go off the deep-end. I would rather have it than death-camps.

[Ichingcarpenter]

99. death-camps.......... really?........... you really went there?

lol.....................

[madfloridian]

88. Actually I am responding to words by our president...

that makes it seem that those of us question his policies are somehow at fault.

[rock]

98. I do apologize if you're thinking I was jumping on you

I wasn't, I was jumping on the pres for being so hyperbolic.

[Ichingcarpenter]

100. OK....... I misunderstood your drift in the conversation

cheers

[rock]

101. I'll try to be clearer in the future

As the past is over with.

[americannightmare]

93. I would wonder why he would want this to be his legacy...

but it doesn't seem to matter with Clinton and NAFTA, so...

[treestar]

111. How can it possibly take away our sovereignty?

Why do people pick up on this extremely absurd talking point and run with it? It only takes a little bit of thinking to realize how dumb it is.

[WillyT]

114. Huge K & R !!!

[davidthegnome]

116. Hmm...

Pursue a big secret trade deal that the public has no access to - yet that will most certainly effect their lives... demand fast track authority... accuse anyone who has suspicions or doubts of being dishonest, insult your base supporters (the people who actually elected you) and just keep pushing it.

I liked this President from the beginning, I supported him from the beginning. A few things he's done have been pretty disappointing (certain political appointments, giving up on single payer, etc.) but this one is starting to piss me off a bit.

Show us the damned literature man, if you want us to believe that this trade deal is good for us, then let us actually see it. Frankly, I do not believe that either Sanders, or Warren are being dishonest. Frankly, I'm not inclined to trust an enormous, world altering trade deal that I can't frigging see.

Frankly, I'm more disappointed in the President now than I have ever been - and I went to bat for him at the convention - as a delegate. I fought for him twice, which didn't exactly win me many friends in this conservative little community I live in. Nor did arguing with the Clinton supporters or the republicans (a few of which actually voted for Obama).

This line of bull shit... stop it. Full stop. Show us the god damn thing if you want us to support it.

[madfloridian]

117. ......

Yep, just stop it.

[riderinthestorm]

118. Ugh. Comparing his liberal progressive base to Sarah Palin?!

sigh

[Yorktown]

122. Agree with Obama. Opposition to TPP is about as rational as 'pro-life' histrionics. nt.

[Bonobo]

123. Sounds like he's starting to lose his shit. nt

[99Forever]

126. They are NOT on our side.

We are being fed a line of crap, intentionally.

As to the motives?

Follow the fucking money. That NEVER changes.

[EEO]

130. Obama is wrong on this. There are people pulling his strings. Very rich and powerful people...

[Enthusiast]

133. K&R! Obama is wrong!

[BeanMusical]

137. Kick and R.