"Electronic Dance Music Festivals Fraught With White Privilege"

[Comrade Grumpy]

This is an op-ed published in a Boston University campus paper.

http://www.bupipedream.com/opinion/53740/edm-festivals-fraught-with-white-privilege/

As an avid fan of house music and member of Binghamton University’s Hoop Troop, I’m almost the typical attendant of EDM festivals. However, my experience at this past summer’s Electric Forest Festival proved to me that so many white people just don’t get it. Because I am a person of color, what should have been an exhilarating adventure turned out to be a nightmare. I faced covert racism and microaggressions from pseudo-hippies that left me cynical about festival culture and colorblindness among the younger generation.

Festivals such as Coachella have already received backlash for the cultural appropriation of Native American headdresses; so much so that a plethora of festivals have banned the sporting of the war bonnets. Yet something that the media doesn’t address is the cultural appropriation of dreadlocks that is so apparent in EDM festival culture. The amount of white people with dreads at Electric Forest was astounding. I was prepared to be one of the few people of color at the festival, but I wasn’t prepared to see people steal my culture.

Many festival attendees fail to realize the cultural significance of hair as a part of black identity, especially dreadlocks. Historically, straightening black hair was a form of survival, in hopes of gaining access to opportunities and resources that African-Americans were denied. Wearing afro-textured in its natural state is a declaration against the European standard of beauty.

Now, there is nothing wrong with black people who straighten their hair, but there is everything wrong with white people having dreadlocks. The difference is that one group is assimilating into dominant culture, whereas the other is borrowing an important aspect of identity from a marginalized group. There is a lot of pressure in the workplace for black people to cut their dreads; there is the case of Ashley Davis, a Missouri woman whose company implemented a policy banning dreadlocks and other hairstyles. There is also the case of 7-year-old Tiana Parker, an Oklahoma girl who had to switch schools after she was sent home for her locs, a hairstyle deemed not “presentable” by school officials. So it is mocking and obnoxious for white people to wear them. I rock faux-locs myself as a protective style for my natural hair, so I was very offended by every white person I saw wearing dreads.

Another issue I have with these festivals is the visible drug culture within them. I am by no means judging anyone for their choices, but the role of drugs in the majority-white festivals is vastly different than it is in the black community. As I witnessed the open sale and use of narcotics on the festival campgrounds, I couldn’t help but think about the black and brown people from low-income neighborhoods that are disproportionately thrown in jail for drugs.

The war on drugs started during Richard Nixon’s presidency in the 1970s, and became an excuse to over-police and incarcerate men and women in poor, minority neighborhoods. According to the NAACP, five times as many whites as African-Americans use drugs, yet African-Americans are imprisoned for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of whites. Former U.S. Marshal and Drug Enforcement Administration Agent Matthew Fogg has recently spoken out about his administrators advising him to not enforce drug laws in white areas. Law enforcement’s application of drug policies is racially organized and takes for granted the lives of people of color. While white kids are partying worry-free on festival grounds, black people are unjustly vilified for drugs.

Overall, my time at the Electric Forest was a bust. The scenery was magical and I got to see Lauryn Hill perform, but this was not a safe space for me to express my love of music as a black woman.

– Chelsea Desruisseaux is a junior majoring in human development

[MicaelS]

1. She has got to be fucking kidding.

Now, there is nothing wrong with black people who straighten their hair, but there is everything wrong with white people having dreadlocks. The difference is that one group is assimilating into dominant culture, whereas the other is borrowing an important aspect of identity from a marginalized group. There is a lot of pressure in the workplace for black people to cut their dreads; there is the case of Ashley Davis, a Missouri woman whose company implemented a policy banning dreadlocks and other hairstyles. There is also the case of 7-year-old Tiana Parker, an Oklahoma girl who had to switch schools after she was sent home for her locs, a hairstyle deemed not “presentable” by school officials. So it is mocking and obnoxious for white people to wear them. I rock faux-locs myself as a protective style for my natural hair, so I was very offended by every white person I saw wearing dreads.

My hair was so red and curly when I was in my twenties, I had a natural, and looked like Bernie from the 1960s TV show Room 222. And I didn't do anything to my hair either. I guess if she were alive back then I would have been accused of being "mocking and obnoxious" for this pale white guy to wear them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3918490&mesg_id=3918712

[elehhhhna]

101. fair is fair so aa women must give up wigs

This silly shit is meant to make us fight

[Buzz Clik]

193. +1. Some of her complaints were legit. Others.... such bullshit.

[geek tragedy]

2. OFFS nt

[hifiguy]

3. There is a time and a place for every kind of stupidity

and that place is called college.

Is this even for REAL??? This is what the word "sophomoric" was coined to describe even if she is a junior.

Hair is hair, and dope is dope. Oddly enough, young people wear lots of kinds of out-there hair-styles and dope of various types appears at party scenes, at least if I am remembering my youth correctly. I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you!!

[BlueJazz]

4. "There's everything wrong with white people having dreadlocks" Bullshit...Bullshit.

People can wear their hair any damn way they want to. That would be like me disapproving of a black individual wearing their hair like Doris Day.

(I would hope the person would tell me to "Fuck You, Asshole&quot

[TampaAnimusVortex]

192. Gotta love those authoritarians...

Always willing to try and control others and tell them what they can and cant do.

Don't want dreadlocks, don't get them - otherwise you have no right to tell anyone else what they should be doing.

[JaneyVee]

5. I used to go to raves and edm festivals in the 90s in NYC...

Back then they were incredibly diverse. Even m9st of the djs were black house music djs from Chicago and Detroit and elsewhere, like Cajmere, Jesse Saunders, Soul Slinger, and one of my faves from UK Carl Cox. Perhaps the crowd was so diverse because its NYC. The diversity was the best part. With the prices of these festivals these days its amazing anyone still shows up.

[RadiationTherapy]

7. I believe "cultural appropriation" will no longer be a useful term soon.

Not because it will end, but because the internet will make the act so commonplace that the term will lose any relevant meaning.

[hifiguy]

10. It's already been happening for fifty years.

Cultural cross-pollination is a thing and has been for a long while.

And in terms of dance music everyone has been ripping off/adapting/redoing/building on Germany's Kraftwerk and Japan's Yellow Magic Orchestra for 40 and 35 years, respectively.

[RadiationTherapy]

18. Picasso dates it back even further.

African influence from colonialism. The Romans were also well known for assimilating cultures. But I think the internet suddenly allows many people to "culture shop" and allows them to isolate themselves from their own cultures. There may be some very interesting "fusions" that emerge.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

47. There is interesting, then there is white South African gangsta rap

[muriel_volestrangler]

171. Ever heard some of Delia Derbyshire's 1960s experiments?

She was the original arranger of the 'Doctor Who' theme:

[frylock]

21. accusations of cultural appropriation are also leveled at white hip-hop acts..

I'm sure it was also thrown at Black punk and/or metal bands. Either way, it's all bullshit.

[hifiguy]

25. Hell, it was used against the blues-based English rock musicians

by some in the 1960s. They were English kids who liked the blues and it inspired them to pick up guitars and play. What else were they supposed to do?

[Scootaloo]

27. Interestingly, one of the very first punk bands was three black dudes from Detroit

They could even be considered "the first' since they technically started their act before other eary punk groups like The stooges.

...This article is ridiculous, though. if the dreds are paired with pan-African tricolor, okay, maybe a case could be made there. But simply having ropy hair? Lord, someone just wants to be angry about something.

[BlueJazz]

195. In the Band part of my life, a few times I was told I shouldn't be playing Jazz. I play Piano, Sax.

"It's a sacrilege and only certain people should enjoy playing..blah..blah..ect."

My response was something like: "Well, the Piano evolved from different instruments and the Saxophone was invented by a Belgian dude named Adolphe Sax somewhere around 1840. Are you saying that only Belgian people should play the instrument?"

That usually cut their conversation mighty short.

[seveneyes]

8. majoring in human development she is?

Good luck with that.

[Throd]

9. "but this was not a safe space for me to express my love of music as a black woman."

WTF?

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Aside from seeing white people with dreads smoking pot, what other micro-aggressions did she

personally experience?

("it turned out to be a NIGHTMARE!&quot

She doesn't actually say.

[hifiguy]

12. Isn't that ENOUGH

for righteous outrage?

Some people's kids, I tell yez.

[Taitertots]

13. White people smoking weed and wearing dreadlocks ruined it for her?

Culture is not something that a race can own. The idea that people are "Stealing my culture" is just rebranded xenophobia and bigotry.

If you have a problem with someone's hairstyle, you're the one with a problem. Not them.

[Igel]

28. I've seen worse.

People who didn't learn "their" language--that of their grandparents. Or wondering why somebody from race X would learn a language spoken almost entirely by members of race Z (sub in "ethnicity" for "race" in many cases).

They don't get that race =/= culture =/= language =/= behavior. Anybody from pretty much any race can fully display any cultural trait, language, or behavior. (With a very few, very marginal exceptions that are purely genetic.)

It usually comes down to something like racial or ethnic purity or "resurgence." Which, in many cases, is nationalism and fascism and decried as evil. In many other cases when it's a group whose purity or separate racial/ethnic survival is at stake, is justified. (I've seen people argue for Spanish being encouraged and protected in the US because it could be "endangered" by the majority-language English. Blank looks met the comment that Spanish was going to be alive and well from the Rio Grande down to the Tierra del fuego for many a year to come, regardless of what happened in the US. It wasn't about the language. It was about politics, demographics, advocacy, and power.)

[hifiguy]

33. China, Korea and Japan have all embraced European classical music

and many of today's finest young virtuosos from Lang Lang to Midori, who was one of the first Asian classical music superstars. are Asian or of Asian descent. Follow whatever muse leads you is what I say.

German and Japanese musicians laid much of the foundation for modern electronic dance music and people from everywhere it's heard on the planet have adopted and adapted it. Note, I said ELECTRONIC dance music.

[Scootaloo]

29. I disagree

The idea that people are "Stealing my culture" is just rebranded xenophobia and bigotry.

No, it's very much a real thing. There's a line between cultural appropriation and cultural participation. it's especially clear when what is being used is held to different majority standards based on who's doing it.

For example in dance - black women "twerking" is seen as crass or vulgar, while white girls doing it is acceptable, if silly (and it's "silly" mostly because of the perception when black women do it.) I dunno if twerking can really be considered "cultural," but it makes an illustrative example of how the same thing can crash against hypocritical standards based on the race of the person doing it.

Another example is the plains Indian war bonnet - It's a cultural and religious piece of attire that has been appropriated not just by non-natives for "fashion" bu also by other native groups for financial gain - playing the "real indian" which in pop culture usually meant 'northern plains indians"

it's a matter of context, mostly. if you're a white person who's in some position or situation where wearing a war bonnet is legitimate, well, good for you. if you're just doing a photo shoot where you're out to "look Indian" well that's another thing entirely.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. so are white people allowed to smoke pot and wear dreads, or not?

The nightmarish microagressions chronicled in this piece are, truly, horrific. I hope she recovers.

[Scootaloo]

36. of course they are.

As I said, it's context. And hell, so far as i know, rastafarianism isn't restricted by ethnicity - granted, I don't imagine too many middle-class white kids see emperor Haile Selassie as the second coming of jesus christ, so... But there's really no way to know if they do or not.

Fact is, dreds are just easier to manage when you spend every noght smoking and sweating and then flopping into the nearest bed.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Having spent years on dead tour

Im sure i have no idea what you're talking about.

Full disclosure, despite being a longhair i never had dreads. Im sure someone could accuse me of appropriating something, though.

[Scootaloo]

39. I rock the Viking look, myself

It's the only thing my hair can do, but at least it does it well.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. HAMMER OF THE GODS

Dont know why, just in the mood

[hifiguy]

44. You can never go wrong with Zep

or kittens. Better still, Zep and kittens together:

[Warren DeMontague]

76. I used to see Dread Zeppelin play in bars. You know, the Led Zep cover band with the Elvis guy.

bringin' it back to dreads, I guess.

[hifiguy]

80. When I stopped in to Newbury Comics in Harvard Square

every week back in the mid-late 1980s DZ was playing quite often. Best parody band ever becuse they played it so ridiculously straight-faced.

ETA - I had forgotten just how dead spot-on the Elvis guy was, vocally.

[Scootaloo]

48. Eh, not quite...

More like...

[bravenak]

51. You have the best taste in Music.

Love it.

[Scootaloo]

54. It's really easy when you listen to everything except country

The last time I heard a country song, it was LITERALLY about blue jeans, tractors, and jesus. I would rather listen to this remake of Jason Derulo's "Ridin' Solo" than any country music

I will accept bluegrass and Old Time music, though

[bravenak]

60. That was so awesome. The dance moves had me up brushing off my shoulders.

I also accept bluegrass and old time country. Not new country. Except for Red Solo Cup. Have no idea why, but that song cracks me up.

[Scootaloo]

81. I heard that song before the original it's based on

And "Ridin' solo" is so must distorted gibberish that i honestly though they were playing "I'm Han solo" on the radio.

As for old-time music, ever heard of Tim Eriksen?

And interestingly, my introduction to Bluegrass was an Alaskan band i went to school with:

Followed swiftly by hearing the Duhks play in Oregon:

[bravenak]

90. You went to school with them?

Everyone in my school (Service) thought they were rappers back in the day. One of them is this guy, Jak Frost.
https://m.

[Warren DeMontague]

63. There is a pretty big gap between traditional country/bluegrass etc.

And the mass produced Toby Keith "boot in yer ass" stuff.

Like, Playing a banjo well takes skill.

[hifiguy]

68. Here's a whole live album with Jerry tearing it up on the 5-string banjo.

Great stuff!!

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Yeah, that's a great album.

I saw Jerry tear up "Midnight Moonlight" more than once, live. Not on the banjo, tho.

[hifiguy]

77. All of those cats could PLAY

and seriously. You have to be a virtuoso to make it sound that effortless.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. I like it, thanks!

Always on the lookout for new music.

I think "trollabundin" posts on DU sometimes.

[Brickbat]

14. Binghampton University is in New York.

[alcibiades_mystery]

178. There's no "p" in Binghamton

[Brickbat]

15. Why is everyone so angry at her?

[Warren DeMontague]

35. She goes to a music festival and decides that other peoples' hairstyles and recreational choices

Are a personal attack on HER.

She's the one with the problem, Jack.

[Brickbat]

46. So what?

Why the vitriol? Everyone's all hung up on the hair; I thought she made a good point about the drug culture.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Blaming the massive injustices of the drug war on white kids who get high at concerts

Is ridiculous.

End the drug war? Absolutely. But that's not what she's arguing. She's got some ridiculous chip on her shoulder.

[Brickbat]

57. Funny, I was thinking the same thing about everyone on this thread.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. She claimed that seeing people with dreads smoking pot made it a "nightmare" of "micro-aggressions"

At what point can one suggest that she ought to be able to go into a crowd of folks who are different, and who -here's the rub- at least by every indication of her opinion piece, didn't do a single thing to her directly offensive beyond merely existing and be able to tolerate it instead of acting as if it was a "nightmare of micro-aggressions"?

[hifiguy]

85. The phrase "nightmare of micro-aggressions" is fraught

with a quantity of horseshit that is not even remotely measurable in normal terms. We're talking cubic parsecs of horseshit here.

[Starry Messenger]

72. Right?

[Warren DeMontague]

78. No.

[Brickbat]

83. It's like no one on this thread was ever young.

[Scootaloo]

86. Being young does not preclude someone from being laughably wrong.

In fact the two traits seem to go together with some regularity.

[hifiguy]

87. We actually remember being young

I smoked a lot of dope, had a goony haircut and dressed weirdly when I was young. Picture a skinny guy with glasses, 6'1" tall wearing a Howard The Duck T-shirt and bellbottom jeans with shoulder length hair in a punk club in 1977. That guy was me. Nobody hassled me because I was cool enough, by the standards of the day, to know and like a lot of the music. My mere presence and existence did not constitute a "micro-aggression" against the pogoers and kids with punk haircuts.

What we are reacting to is the writer's surprise that college age people have weird hairstyles, smoke dope and act, well, college age. She is outraged by it. I think it's perfectly normal.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. I was so much older, then, I'm younger than that now.

Yes, I was young, once. And being called on my pretentious bullshit helped me mature into the person I am today.

[Brickbat]

108. You've reached out to the author?

[Warren DeMontague]

110. She put out a piece for public consumption.

as a member of the public, I am commenting on it.

Publicly, in fact.

[Inkfreak]

59. The war on drugs is complete bullshit.

And no doubt affects poor minority neighborhoods. But having been to quite a wide variety of concerts & festivals, I must say that drugs use is usually ignored by promoters. Private security ( I've done some) are generally told to ignore it unless something is getting out of hand. They're not there to "harsh the mellow". It's just bad for buisness.

[amandabeech]

167. Electric Forest is in a very rural county with a small law enforcement contingent

and an even smaller jail.

They know that the only thing that they can do is try to make sure no one runs down the middle of the main drag naked.

You have to do something really awful to get arrested.

From someone who grew up a few miles north of there.

[Travis_0004]

84. I stopped reading after she talked about dreads

I thought she was an idiot.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

154. Because she's talking nonsense? N.T.

[cyberswede]

16. Is this satire?

[hifiguy]

22. Sadly, I don't think it is.

[shanti]

17. guess she's never been to a reggae show

wait, she probably shouldn't.

[Revanchist]

69. Or even worse, a Dread Zeppelin show

[Nye Bevan]

19. A "nightmare"? Because of some folks' hairstyles?

This person needs to get some perspective.

[CANDO]

31. Seems more like she's laying the groundwork for...

a career in race-based professional outrage peddling.

[XemaSab]

20. Black people are being shot in the street, evicted en masse, denied the right to vote, etc.

Dude, if seeing a hippie is the worst thing ever to happen to you, you should be down on your knees thanking whatever deity you believe in for being so blessed.

[MrScorpio]

23. Excellent article. Recced! nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

24. Right. I was especially impressed by her wearing "faux-locs."

I guess that makes her more authentic than the white kids wearing real dread locks.

[MrScorpio]

62. Well, the best thing about cultural appropriation...

Is that it allows the appropriators to adopt the cultural aspects of others while rejecting or disregarding the people behind those cultures or their meanings.

So, guess that you're implying that it's all the same, no matter who wears them, right?

[Inkfreak]

82. Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume that they're disregarding or rejecting the culture?

And is there a point at which someone is wearing their hair in that fashion just because they like the way they look?

[MrScorpio]

87. I'm saying that this is just another example of appropriating black culture without black people...

Actually, this sort of thing has been with us since the creation of white supremacy, when whites have "discovered" some other cultural aspect, to simply take it as their own, all the while, rejecting the people from which that aspect came.

Most of the time it's done for commercial reasons. One of the more virulent aspects of capitalism.

[Inkfreak]

94. I see what you're saying, Mr. Scorpio..

But I'm having trouble accepting it. I guess I just expect us to take on aspects of each other's cultures here. We live in an era where everything & everyone are easily accessible through things like social media. It would stand to reason that we'd share our experiences & adopt things we like. I feel like it's not a bad thing if it brings us closer together as a people. I'm not oblivious to the fact that minorities still have an uphill battle, btw.

I also can't wrap my head around how it was a "nightmare" for the young woman. I appreciate the answer and will think it over.

[MrScorpio]

98. Well, I'm glad that you're admitting that minorities face an uphill battle...

And part of that battle we face deal with the fact of how much our own culture is derided and rejected when we express our own uniqueness. It's about how we're not allowed to have these things for ourselves and when we do, we are condemned for it.

I know that the politics of black hair isn't something that's particularly common knowledge in the majority, but these are issues that we have to deal with all of the time:

When actress Zendaya Coleman decided to rock a different hair look to the Oscars on Sunday night, she never expected to ignite a natural hair firestorm. Her faux locs, one of the changing hairstyles Coleman has tried out as of late were critiqued on E! News’ popular fashion show Fashion Police.

Kelly Osborne said she thought Zendaya’s style was maturing and looked forward to her evolution, but co-host Giuliana Rancic though the hairstyle was “too big” for the star and possibly smelled like patchouli…and weed. (It should be noted, that although Rancic was the first to mention the patchouli oil, it was comedian co-host Kathy Griffin who said ‘weed’ which Rancic then co-signed.)

Coleman issued a thoughtful, measured response via her Twitter this morning, predictably setting off a natural hair education class on Rancic’s Twitter account.



http://blackamericaweb.com/2015/02/24/zendaya-coleman-checks-e-reporter-over-faux-locs/

[Major Hogwash]

198. Great answer. I wonder how many people read your post.

Outstanding use of a series of pictures to cut to the chase.

[Glassunion]

26. Is this what colleges are turning out these days?

I weep for the future.

[romanic]

139. Only those

that are easily offended and swayed by academic illiberalism.

[bravenak]

30. Yeah. No.

[Inkfreak]

32. A nightmare, eh? I don't get it. And I don't care to.

When cops are mowing down black people like its a sport, I think some dipshit white kids sporting dreads is a notch or two below nightmare. I do think they look a lil silly, though. I've never thought it was a good look for them. But I'm a high & tight type of guy. Hair is annoying.

Open sale & use of drugs at a festival??!! Shocking....btw, I've been to a few hip-hop concerts. It's no different. From Ozzfest to a Wu-Tang concert, spark a blunt and enjoy the show is the modus operandi.

[Jesus Malverde]

38. Lol she's fun to party with

[seveneyes]

41. I was at that show. Here's a video ...

[Inkfreak]

45. LMAO! I never thought I'd see a SYL video on DU.

Well done!

[seveneyes]

52. He could be my Canadian Brother

Even when he beats me at Hockey ...

[hifiguy]

50. IIRC, SYL's drummer is also Dethklok's drummer.

He's a monster player.

[Scootaloo]

53. Close; he's based off the frontman, Devon Townsend

[hifiguy]

58. Gene Hogland, SYL's drummer

is actually Dethklok's drummer as well as there being a direct Pickles/Townsend connection

Eugene "Gene" Victor Hoglan II (born August 31, 1967, in Dallas, Texas) is an American drummer. He is acclaimed for his creativity in drum arrangements, including use of odd devices for percussion effects and his trademark lengthy double-kick drum rhythms. His highly technical playing is extremely accurate at very high and challenging tempos, earning him the nicknames "The Atomic Clock" and "Human Drum Machine." He is best known for his work with Dark Angel, Death, Strapping Young Lad, Devin Townsend, Fear Factory, Opeth, Unearth, and most recently Dethklok and Testament. Hoglan recently completed work on Dethklok's fourth album The Doomstar Requiem, which was released in October 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Hoglan (emphasis added)

[Scootaloo]

61. never imagined i'd be discussing dethklok on DU.

[hifiguy]

64. I never dreamed I'd be discussing anything on DU

with someone who has a CMC handle.

[Scootaloo]

65. Best Glam Metal band ever!

That said, there's not a very high bar in that particular genre

[hifiguy]

71. Absolutely.

They should have called themselves The Hair Farmers. Always wanted to do an 80s cover band and use that name.

[NaturalHigh]

42. Miss Desruisseaux couldn't find something important...

to concern herself?

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

43. "A safe place"

Too bad she didn't focus on the drug disparity issue, but, then it wouldn't have been all about her and how she felt unsafe because some white folks were sporting dreads.

[NaturalHigh]

104. Great reply!

One could make a great article out of any number of aspects of U.S. drug policy and perhaps even point out examples at a music festival. Dreadlocks, though? I'm not feeling it.

[treestar]

49. The part about the hair is dumb but the part about the drugs out in the open

is a point. White people at a concern doing pot are not harassed for it or arrested.

[riderinthestorm]

96. You have obviously never been to a music festival. Everyone's doing drugs

black, white, brown, yellow and any color thereof....

This young woman is really stretching.

[treestar]

105. True I haven't

but would the cops show up at a festival with a black group performing?

[riderinthestorm]

107. Electric Forest is pretty bland pop music with a strong electronic sound

my daughter goes every year and I try (emphasis is on "try" lol) to keep up.

The festivals like Electric Forest that's mentioned in the OP are typically held at a large state park or campground which make them hard for the police to access unless they were specifically called. There's a very narrow checkpoint that everyone has to pass through to be searched and show their wrist band ticket, but which would also be hard for the cops to come in en masse.

Once inside it's mayhem with lots of sex, drugs and music - pretty much all of it out in the open. The festival organizers don't want the cops in there so they won't call. The festival goers have spent something like $300 or more to go in and party. No way they're calling.

So a band (and fans) of any color could and does play unmolested by police in a music festival.

That said, festivals in city parks like Chicago, would be fair game for cops since its on city property. Then I'd guess all bets are off.

[PersonNumber503602]

196. That was a valid point on her part, but she seems to blame the wrong people

She should have focuses on the system that creates such a disparity in how it's seen/dealt with, but instead she went off on some weird tangent about hair and feeling uncomfortable.

[alp227]

55. Sigh. This is the kind of stuff people GENERALIZE liberalism to be.

I wish there were more articulate representatives for progressive thought whose words don't get as easily twisted/misrepresented.

[beam me up scottie]

66. She's still young.

Maybe she will sharpen that angst and surprise us one day.

[Metric System]

74. I call them Tumblr-inspired social justice warriors. EVERYTHING is "problematic."

[alp227]

89. So make an argument why they're reaching.

The only arguments I've heard AGAINST the Tumblr "problematic" posts: "You're too PC! Lighten up!" or "You're overanalyzing".

[MrScorpio]

109. Right, telling black people that we're just supposed to "get over it..."

Or some argument like that.

Pretty much a lot of effort here to disregard the author's point of view.

[Warren DeMontague]

111. If someone had actually done something to her, you might have a point.

But she's claiming that the hairstyles of other people and the fact that they were doing drugs, were what made it a "nightmare" for her.

[MrScorpio]

114. I read that she expanded her narrative into the greater Drug War scenario...

It's quite clear that she had compared the stereotype of blacks with dreads and the negative impact that those stereotypes have on the greater black community against the all too real drug use of white dread wearing, drug taking concert goers who are able to do that without any scrutiny at all.

Her article was addressing a double standard.

And it's not like I haven't seen the exact same thing with my own eyes. I've been aware of this issue for decades myself, when I would go to reggae concerts and see young white people there behaving as if being at a reggae concert gives them carte blanch to smoke dope out in the open.

If black people felt as if smoking dope out in the open was OK to do, I wonder how long that would happen.

Her nightmare, as is mine, is seeing bleeding black bodies, lying dead in our streets, all because of how this drug war is singularly focused on black people.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. If she was trying to write an op-ed about the drug war, she failed miserably.

The answer to the drug war is to end the drug war. Not for white people to stop wearing dreadlocks.

She wants to grind an axe against pseudo-hippies at an EDM fest, that isn't helping end the drug war. The pseudo-hippies probably agree about that point, believe it or not.

[MrScorpio]

117. She cited a specific example of white privilege and the cultural component of the drug war

As it applies to race.

Hey, the pseudo hippies aren't to blame that they're able to do things that would get black, dread-wearing dope smokers killed in this country. It's also not about grinding axes by pointing this out. It's about establishing the fact that the reality of this drug war isn't evenly applied across racial lines.

If all whites were affected in the exact same way by this drug war that most blacks are affected by it every single day, I seriously doubt that this issue would come up.

[Warren DeMontague]

121. Again, if her point was that we should end the drug war, she didn't do a very good job of making it.

I'm fairly sure there are concerts where African Americans with dreads smoke pot out in the open, too. But I am certainly in agreement that the drug war is racist AND wrong and needs to end.

I don't think that "we need to send swat teams into all the dave matthews concerts to crack some white frat boy heads for smoking dope" is actually the best, or most realistic, way to go about it... As much as I don't personally like DMB. I actually think that, like with marriage equality, there has been a sea change of opinion around the drug war- certainly the clock is ticking on pot prohibition, and about damn time.

Her thing about the drug war was almost an afterthought, in the larger context of the piece, which was all over the map and pretty much a mess. If she had wanted to write a peice saying "gee, I went to this show and a lot of white people were smoking pot with impunity, here are some facts about the drug war and how it overwhelmingly targets African Americans" that would have been much more linear. This was about being pissed at "pseudo hippies" for things like wearing dreads.

From where I sit, how people choose to wear their hair is their own damn business, just as it should be if they're consenting adults and want to smoke a joint.

[MrScorpio]

125. So you're objecting to how she framed a point that you're in agreement with about the drug war...

But of course, simply bringing up the white privilege aspect seems problematic.

It's just that you can't have one without the other.

White privilege takes many different forms, specifically how it allows white people to take the cultures of minorities while punishing those minorities for expressing their own cultures. Again, this is a double standard.

[Warren DeMontague]

131. "there is everything wrong with white people having dreadlocks"- do you agree with that statement?

I don't think her piece was about the drug war, centrally. It was tacked on to a general, like I said, excerise in hyperbolic axe-grinding.

The point in your last line might make sense IF the dreadlock wearing EDM pseudo-hippies were the ones out there arresting minorities for doing drugs. By and large, I would wager they aren't.

[MrScorpio]

136. If you're not willing to understand her point about white privilege and cultural appropriation...

It's very clear to me about what you're trying to say.

[MrScorpio]

137. If you're not willing to understand her point about white privilege and cultural appropriation...

It's very clear to me about what you're trying to say.

[Warren DeMontague]

138. That's not, really, an answer to the question I asked.

"there is everything wrong with white people having dreadlocks" --- I mean, either you agree or you don't.

I don't.

[MrScorpio]

146. Would it be too much trouble to take in all in context?

"Now, there is nothing wrong with black people who straighten their hair, but there is everything wrong with white people having dreadlocks. The difference is that one group is assimilating into dominant culture, whereas the other is borrowing an important aspect of identity from a marginalized group. There is a lot of pressure in the workplace for black people to cut their dreads; there is the case of Ashley Davis, a Missouri woman whose company implemented a policy banning dreadlocks and other hairstyles. There is also the case of 7-year-old Tiana Parker, an Oklahoma girl who had to switch schools after she was sent home for her locs, a hairstyle deemed not “presentable” by school officials. So it is mocking and obnoxious for white people to wear them. I rock faux-locs myself as a protective style for my natural hair, so I was very offended by every white person I saw wearing dreads."

I absolutely agree with the writer in that context. Because, quite clearly, some aspects of black expression are rejected and ridiculed by the majority whenever that expression is done by black people alone. However, when they're appropriated by the majority while excluding black people themselves, they're somehow accepted.

I'm also quite sure that you're not putting in the requisite thought behind references made in the article regarding the politics of black hair. I did cite another example of this upthread. I hope that got a chance to read it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6563432

[Warren DeMontague]

150. Just like it doesn't make sense to blame pot smoking hippies for racist drug cops

it also doesn't make sense to blame white people with dreads for any time an AA person with dreads has a hard time, because of their dreads.

The people to blame for all those things are the people perpetuating them. Pot smokers don't perpetuate the drug war, and people with dreads don't perpetuate bigotry against dreadlocks.

[MrScorpio]

170. Did you happen to read the part where she cited specific examples...

Where black people were punished for expressing themselves through their own hair? Did you also happen to notice how I mentioned an instance where stereotypes were used against a black woman simply because she wore her own hair in such a fashion?

The author cited examples of how cultural appropriation works against minorities: where on one hand minorities are punished for expressing themselves through their own culture, while on the other, when those very same expressions are stolen by majority they suddenly become widely accepted. Clearly what's happening here is a form of white supremacy that takes blackness, but rejects the black people from which that blackness came.

Now let's say for example, the author, like every single other black person in this country, never had to deal with the endless amount of hostility and rejection that happens against us simply because we're black. Let's say that we didn't have to deal with the drug war which disprortionally targets people of color, imprisoning and killing us at such a fevered rate. Let's say that our own cultural expressions, like how we wear our own hair, were readily accepted and welcomed in us while we expressed them. Let's say that we're made to feel as if it's fine for us to have black hair and black skin. Basically, all I'm saying here is suppose what it would be like if we didn't have to deal with cultural and systemic white supremacy.

Now consider that scenario and try to imagine if any of us would be having this conversation that we're having.

I think that we would not.

As individuals, I know that whites have no control over systemic and cultural white supremacy. Appropriation is done without even needing to take a moment's thought about it. This is simply the world that all of were born into without any of us asking for it, no matter what color we are. But there are a couple of things that I think you ought to consider, One: Under white supremacy, black people are never allowed the luxury of not having to consider the impact that our own skin (and hair) has on any given situation we're in. And two, white supremacy guarantees for white people the luxury of never having to consider their own whiteness.

As a matter of fact, for many whites, merely having any conversation about the state of race relations in this country seems to force them to react as if they're being attacked.

If anything, the only thing that is asked of white people in these conversations is that they simply take the time and effort to be self-aware. Not just about their own behavior as individuals, but most of all, about who they are as part of the dominant group.

The reactions and accusations of being attacked when they're not only serves to shut down the conversation. Basically, it's more hostility that's lodged against us by those who belong to the dominant group, simply telling us that our concerns as black people don't matter to them.

[Warren DeMontague]

188. I'm sorry, but if the concern amounts to telling someone else that they shouldn't wear their hair

how they choose to, I can't get behind it.

And no amount of rationalizing is going to make me get behind it.

Want me to argue that the drug war is racist? It should end yesterday? Right there.

Want me to defend someone who catches shit for wearing dreads at an award show? Again, right there with it.

Sign me up.

Want me to agree that "there is everything wrong with white people wearing dreadlocks"?

Sorry. No sale.

I'm all for ending systemic and cultural white supremacy, but bagging on dreadlocked pseudo-hippies at an EDM fest doesn't move the ball a millimeter closer to that end zone.

[riderinthestorm]

123. While I agree with your bigger point, you're very wrong when it comes to this case

i have an 18 yr old teenager daughter who has been to at least 10 music festivals across US and has been to Electric Forest specifically twice.

These festivals are commonly held on state parks or private campgrounds. The gateway in is very narrow and once everyone is searched and given their wristband "ticket", the only ones who would call the cops are either the festival organizers (no way would they bring in the cops on their own festival), or the partyers (never). There's no way for the police to force themselves in easily en masse.

Consequently everyone of every color is doing drugs, openly having sex and other illegal stuff. Her extrapolation that this is because this (bland electric dance music) festival is somehow off limits for mass police drug busts because it's mostly white hipsters with white privilege isn't correct. It's off limits because it's inaccessible to the police in the first place, and nobody's calling them in.

How do I know this? Unfortunately one year my daughter's ride home from Summercamp had to leave early because of a family emergency. My daughter called me to come get her and then her phone promptly died.

I got there at noon on the Monday after, while something like 20,000 people were still openly doing drugs, having sex and everything else that goes on at music festivals. Had to park two miles away since I wasn't able to get close and hiked in.

50 something mom, in her mom jeans, wading in 12 inches of mud, muck, syringes, feces, condoms etc trying to locate her daughter. Took a couple hours hunting her down.

Enlightening.

Frankly, there's no way the cops would wade into that disaster scene. It's disgusting. They waited outside and wrote (I'd estimate) a thousand tickets for illegal parking, speeding (Chillicothe is a one stoplight town and probably generates ALL its revenue over the course of that weekend), open carry in a vehicle etc. as everyone drove away. Probably wrote another thousand tickets as the festival goers were on the way in as well. Color plays no part in this.

Electric Forest is a clone of Summercamp. Rothbury MI, the site of Electric Forest, has a population of 500 people. Rinse and repeat.

[MrScorpio]

128. Well, that's the choice of the police, right?

Such as how police in this country conducted mass surveillance operations against the entire Hip-Hop movement:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/mar/11/arts.usa

http://boingboing.net/2015/02/27/mass-surveillance-hip-hop-from.html

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/4/19/hip_hop_journalist_davey_d_on

The NYPD even created an entire Hip-Hop surveillance unit: http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-03-16/news/nypd-admits-to-rap-intelligence-unit/full/

This problem is way bigger that most here are willing to admit or even see.

[riderinthestorm]

129. I already said I agree with your point while disputing this particular festival

and this particular example.

The choice of the police with these festivals is to stay out of the disgusting morass and target the folks black AND white, for the lucrative tickets no one is going to go back and dispute. They know this. Whose going to drive back 10 hours to dispute being 15 mph over the speed limit? They know folks will simply pay those fines. A person with a drug bust however will certainly come back and fight that. Ka-Ching for Chillicothe and Rothbury MI, population 500+/-. Easy $ and no messy jail scenes.

I'm bi-racial by the way. I'll also add that I don't care if white people wear dreadlocks. My Jamaican grandfather told me dreads were adopted by the Jamaicans from India. I've never seen them as exclusively a "black thing" just like I actually thought corn rows suited Bo Derek and didn't begrudge her wearing them. I understand the AA's culture around hair and its importance but frankly I always find it more amusing that white folks copy AA style, than get angry about it.

[Warren DeMontague]

133. They also set up phony cell phone towers in the parking lots of Phish concerts, to catch drug users.

You think Hip Hop is the only community that's been targeted in the drug war?



http://onlineathens.com/stories/043002/new_20020430018.shtml

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/nyregion/drug-use-and-arrests-accompany-phishs-madison-square-garden-shows.html

Hell, I remember when the LAPD choked a kid to death in the parking lot of a Dead show for doing handstands.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-12-30/local/me-1027_1_grateful-dead-concert

[xocet]

197. It seems that a settlement resulted from that homicide....

Settlement OKd in Student's Death : Law: Inglewood will pay $750,000 to resolve suit by Fountain Valley family. Patrick Shanahan died of injuries suffered as he struggled with police after concert.
February 03, 1994|ERIC MALNIC and GEBE MARTINEZ | TIMES STAFF WRITERS

The Inglewood City Council has agreed to pay $750,000 to settle a lawsuit by the Orange County family of a 19-year-old college student who died from neck injuries suffered as he struggled with police after a Grateful Dead concert at the Forum in December, 1989.

Inglewood police said they used a carotid artery chokehold--a controversial form of forceful restraint banned by many law enforcement agencies because of concerns about serious injury--to control Patrick Shanahan after he resisted attempts to arrest him.

...

But judging by the size of the award, while the city will probably deny culpability, they do not give out awards of that size if they are not in fact, to some degree, guilty," Shanahan added.

Witnesses said they saw police officers beating Shanahan with nightsticks, and the coroner's office said bruises were found on his forehead, neck, scalp, cheek, jaw, shoulder, chest, ribs, knee and back.

...

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-02-03/local/me-18766_1_patrick-shanahan

[romanic]

143. I reread the article.

And not once did I see "black people" collectively angst about dreadlocks on white or non-black people, just this young woman's completely ridiculous and cultural segregationist opinion.

[MrScorpio]

145. "Cultural segregationist…"

OK.

[romanic]

148. I mean to say

cultural separatist, but my point still stands.

[MrScorpio]

149. Whatever floats your boat...

Whatever that is.

[romanic]

151. I mean...

[IMG][/IMG]

And yes my boat is floating on by bro.

[Starry Messenger]

75. When you're combing student papers to find student viewpoints to be outraged about?

I wonder about priorities. Not hers.

[malaise]

79. Chelsea is clueless

and then some.

[aikoaiko]

91. Maybe its satire.

[bravenak]

92. I wish.

It's just weird.

[VScott]

95. "Microagression" = butt hurt

This whole microagression nonsense is getting waaaaaaay the fuck out of hand.

[img][/img]

[Nye Bevan]

142. Your post is microaggressive and should carry a "trigger warning" (nt)

[leveymg]

97. This is what people complain about when they have no real causes

Same as it ever was. It's all about her.

[postatomic]

100. Complete and total Bullshit

Drugs and White People at an EDM festival? The horror, oh the horror. How anyone can take an EDM and turn it into a racist vehicle is pretty fucked up. I think she should change her major.............. Oh, and if the Electric Festival doesn't appeal to you anymore then don't fucking go. (it starts tomorrow)

You know what I don't like? People who use a computer keyboard to compose completely incoherent dribble to promote a totally unrelated agenda. "not a safe place for me to express my love of music as a black woman". I was there last year. Maybe she went to the "other" Electric Festival.

[Turborama]

102. TL;DR? Here's a synopsis: I am by no means judging anyone... but...

n/t

[SMC22307]

103. Love a Puli.

Can't we all just get along?

It's a wonder ol' Chelsea can make it through the day, what with all the threatening hairstyles out there.

[Doctor_J]

106. This has to be satire

It's like a bad parody of PC.

[kwassa]

112. Why did you post this OP? What was your point in doing so?

Are you simply trying to embarrass this young woman?

What about her opinion did you find so important?

For the record, I mostly agree with her. This is her essential point.

Many festival attendees fail to realize the cultural significance of hair as a part of black identity, especially dreadlocks.

This thread is living proof of that, from start to end. It is nothing but a long list of pretty much clueless white people opining on what black people should find culturally appropriate, because, among other things, white people DON'T understand the huge cultural significance of hair for black people.

It is not a problem for white people, therefore it should not be a problem for black people. That, in a nutshell, is white privilege.

[riderinthestorm]

118. Dreadlocks originated from Hindu yogis and other eastern holy men

black culture co-opted it from them.

Exactly what other hairstyles are verboten for white folks? Braids? Cornrows? Straight hair?

Have you ever read Zora Neale Hurston's outstanding Their Eyes Were Watching God? The AA female protagonist has long luxurious naturally straight hair and during one particularly painful part of her life faces 20+ years of reverse discrimination from her AA community about that straight hair and is forced to cover it up.

I think her essay is pretentious and only exposes her as a first time Electric Forest attendee who doesn't understand the festival scene.

[kwassa]

126. Sorry, but your history is incorrect.

and the most important point that most whites do not understand is the significance of the issue of hair in the African-American community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadlocks

The first known examples of dreadlocks date back to North Africa and the Horn of Africa. In ancient Egypt examples of Egyptians wearing locked hairstyles and wigs have appeared on bas-reliefs, statuary and other artifacts.[2] Mummified remains of ancient Egyptians with locks, as well as locked wigs, have also been recovered from archaeological sites.[3]

Maasai men found in the regions of northern Kenya claim that they have been wearing dreadlocks for as long as they have survived. According to their oral history, the Maasai originated from the lower Nile valley north of Lake Turkana (Northwest Kenya) and began migrating south around the 15th century, arriving in a long trunk of land stretching from what is now northern Kenya between the 17th and late 18th century. Even today, Maasai men can be found wearing their dreadlocks, with a tint of red color from the soil.

Rastafari locks are symbolic of the Lion of Judah which is sometimes centered on the Ethiopian flag. Rastafari hold that Haile Selassie is a direct descendant of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba, through their son Menelik I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadlocks

[riderinthestorm]

127. Here's another source that disputes that.

http://www.dreadlocks.org/the-history-of-dreadlocks/

I'm bi-racial thank you very much. I know the importance of hair so please don't condescend.

That this young woman is getting worked up about white people with dreadlocks is silly Imho.

[kwassa]

130. I don't see the Indian sadhu connection.

Where is evidence of these people in Jamaica?

There were plenty of Indians, but where were the sadhus?

It has been suggested (e.g., Campbell 1985) that the first Rasta locks were copied from Kenya in 1953, when images of the independence struggle of the feared Mau Mau insurgents, who grew their "dreaded locks" while hiding in the mountains, appeared in newsreels and other publications that reached Jamaica. However, a more recent study by Barry Chevannes[48] has traced the first hairlocked Rastas to a subgroup first appearing in 1949, known as Youth Black Faith.

There have been ascetic groups within a variety of world faiths that have at times worn similarly matted hair.[citation needed] In addition to the Nazirites of Judaism[citation needed] and the sadhus of Hinduism, it is worn among some sects of Sufi Islam, notably the Baye Fall sect of Mourides,[49] and by some Ethiopian Orthodox monks in Christianity,[50] among others. Some of the very earliest Christians may also have worn this hairstyle; particularly noteworthy are descriptions of James the Just, "brother of Jesus" and first Bishop of Jerusalem, whom Hegesippus (according to Eusebius[51] and Jerome) described as a Nazirite who never once cut his hair. The length of a Rasta's locks is a measure of wisdom, maturity, and knowledge in that it can indicate not only the Rasta's age, but also his/her time as a Rasta.

[riderinthestorm]

132. There's a long history of Indians from India in the Caribbean

thats indisputable.



That there's also an African connection (and their dreadlocks) is also not in dispute.

I guess who has the prior claim to dreadlocks amongst two ancient cultures could be disputed for a long time. My bi-racial heritage comes from my Jamaican grandfather fyi and I learned the history I know about dreadlocks from him.

[kwassa]

134. But what is his source?

Not to dis your grandfather.

I had a black friend in LA, also with Jamaican Indian grandfather, who was the only female in her family that had naturally straight hair. She knew nothing of her Indian culture, so I took her down to an Indian neighborhood there, we had some Indian food, and she was shocked do discover Indian people there with darker skin than hers that had completely straight hair.

I would be surprised to hear that there was a culture of Hindi sadhus in what was essentially an imported community of Indian civil servants, which in itself was a common means of governance by England in it's various colonies. I know Indian-Americans in this area that are descended from generations that lived in such places as Kenya and Guyana.

[riderinthestorm]

135. Understood. It's also in the article I linked to above.

FWIW, my grandfather desperately tried to pass as white except his hair was just too nappy.

Hair has played a big role in my family's life as it was the big "betrayer" of his heritage so we had a lot of conversations about it.

This documentary is interesting and tells the story my grandfather told me about how the Indians integrated with the native maroons, explaining the history and influence of dreads on both cultures in Jamaica. Some Indians simply headed to the hills once they landed and transformed themselves into sadhus in Jamaica.

http://repeatingislands.com/2014/10/25/dreadlock-stories-uncovers-spiritual-links-between-indian-sadhus-and-jamaican-rastafarians/

You can google images for Indian sadhus in Jamaica and get contemporaneous pictures even today.

[CJCRANE]

166. Picture of a sadhu with dreadlocks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadlocks

(I've learned something new today)

[MrScorpio]

120. Damn skippy! nt

[romanic]

144. The OP

doesn't need to explain anything to you (who the hell are you anyway, the thread police?). And once again you generalized the entire thread by saying:

This thread is living proof of that, from start to end. It is nothing but a long list of pretty much clueless white people opining on what black people should find culturally appropriate, because, among other things, white people DON'T understand the huge cultural significance of hair for black people.

because ever single person who responded is white including my Afro-Latino self who thinks the author is a clueless and overly-sensitive millennial using the "appropriation" label as a crutch to separate cultures and to attack something that isn't even an issue in the first place.

You can agree with the author but don't get all butthurt if no one else does.

[kwassa]

175. you have proven over and over again in this forum ...

that you know very little about African-American culture, yet continue to opine on it.

Why do you think you do? Afro-Latino (which country?) is a completely different culture. Afro-Latino cultures differ from each other.

I frankly don't care about the opinion of uninformed people, on any subject. If hundreds of uninformed people agree on their uninformed opinion, this opinion has little value.

[romanic]

182. Don't opine

on my ethnicity and my cultural background. If you want to know since you're such a self-righteous busyboy, I'm Puerto Rican on my mother's side and African-American on my father's side. I grew up in a majority black city with fractions of White and Latino groups in the same city and was blessed to have loving parents that showed me the best of both cultures. I never said I was an expert on AA culture because AA culture is so rich and broad with smaller sub-cultures that it would be nearly impossible to know every single little thing about it. If you have more insight into what pinpoints AA Culture, then go ahead and spill your knowledge for the "uninformed masses" if you're really that smart.

As to your last point, like I said previously you can agree with the author of the opinion piece but not everyone else is obligated to. If you can't handle other people's opinions then that says more about you and your "smarts".

And I said all of that to be frank.

[m-lekktor]

113. if this was her first time seeing white people with dreadlocks she hasn't gotten out much. nt

[betsuni]

116. I agree about the visible drug culture.

I hate jokes about drugs on TV -- the audience laughs and applauds. Oh, aren't drugs fun, as if there are not so many people in prison because it. Why do so many young Americans have to take drugs to have fun anyway? I'm like the maid in "It's a Wonderful Life" who says, "Boys and girls and music. Why do they need gin?"

[Warren DeMontague]

122. most of those people are in prison because of the drug WAR

not because of the drugs.

[betsuni]

124. Obviously.

[romanic]

140. Chelsea

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2015, 03:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Sounds like a typical overly offended and ignorant college student "activist" who eats outrage for breakfast. If white people with dreads (which is neither racist or so-called appropriation) triggers her sensitive little heart so much then she lock herself in her room and never come out; it'll do our rich and culturally evolving society a favor. Maybe she can also learn about other ethnic groups that don dreads and locs while she's in isolation.

And one more thing; she wanted a "safe space" @ an EDM concert???
[IMG][/IMG]

[cwydro]

141. She needs to get

a damn grip.

[Quantess]

147. I despise fashion police.

Now, there is nothing wrong with black people who straighten their hair, but there is everything wrong with white people having dreadlocks.

Whatever you say, Fashion Cop.

[JustAnotherGen]

152. I don't see what the problem is with her opinion?

It's not policy making and doesn't impact a single person's life at DU. Me? I don't hang around at college blogs looking for things to be outraged or 'put upon' by. Like - if this ruined someone's day - they need more to do! They don't have a full life!

[TM99]

153. Entitled little SJW.

How much are tickets to the Electric Forest Festival?

Give you a hint. It is a multi-day affair which sells out months in advance that includes lodging for three days. Go look up the price.

Now come back and tell me this is not entitlement and a fucking first world view of life.

I'll wait patiently.

[RedCappedBandit]

155. This thread is a pathetic example of what DU has become.

Butthurt, social justice warrior, PC, get over it, mocking, laughing. Sound like a bunch of fucking freepers incapable of even considering an alternative viewpoint for a single second.

Is anyone willing to acknowledge that these festivals by and large are solid examples of white privilege in action? Clearly the focus on the hair was damaging to her credibility because of how people choose to take what she's saying, but her overall point is spot on. White people are treated differently and are given a pass when others aren't. White people use drugs at the same, if not higher, rates as minorities. Does the war on drugs affect white communities equally? No.

Keeping in mind she's a random junior in college, I'm not gonna get caught up on all the ways her article could've been better while dismissing any and all of her points.

FFS people.

[gollygee]

156. I just saw it and wow

it's painful to read threads like this. It's like FR in here.

[romanic]

157. Music festivals are for everybody.

I've been to several festivals in the Midwest including the Movement festival here in Detroit, a large electro dance event down in one of the blackest cities in the US where are saw a pretty good diverse crowd. Lollapoloza over in Chicago was even more diverse as were the acts that spanned across races and genres, not surprising since its one of the largest in the region and across the country. To say festivals are a solid example of white privilege is bunk considering how inclusive the crowds usually are.

Obviously i or others responding to the piece weren't in the author's shoes but just the general impression of it seems miserable and pretentious and damn right were gonna mock it. Maybe Chelsea will mature and appreciate diversity and cultures blending and enjoy herself; or maybe she'll further believe that cultures should be owned, trademarked and separated to appease her sensitivities. Regardless people go to music concerts and festivals to have fun and let loose, not to tiptoe around somebody else's politics.

[TM99]

160. You are so wrong it is truly sad.

Electronic music was created in the 1970's by 'white' Germans. Then it evolved into various genres in various cities from Detroit to Chicago to London to Berlin with such examples as hip hop, house, techno, and trance.

I am bi-racial. I have been a part of this evolution since it began. I have been to more raves, house parties, festivals, etc. then most here could imagine. They are and have always been diverse. No one cares what color your skin is, who you like to fuck, or what your gender is.

What has changed over the last decade or so is the fact that some of these festivals have become large 'corporate' events. They have become extremely expensive to attend. This is one such example, another is Burning Man. To spend a weekend in the forest at this festival will easily cost you $500.00 to $1000.00 for the tickets, transportation, lodging, and food & beverage costs.

For this young woman to have attended means that she, like the whites she is complaining about, both share the only fucking privilege that truly matters. They are all prosperous enough to have afforded it.

But instead of self-awareness around her own privilege while other blacks are not able to go to college like she is or are not able to afford such a festival because they are working two jobs just to make ends meet, she is acting holier than thou and hypocritical while she writes her 'academic discourse' on the 'cultural appropriation' of hair styles by 'whites' at an expensive festival that she herself has the privilege to attend.

FFS is very right!

[RedCappedBandit]

161. That is so tangential to what I said I actually wonder if you meant to reply to me.

The only privilege that truly matters? Class? You realize that class and race are and have been inextricably linked throughout the course of this country's history, yes?

So race doesn't matter anymore, and we shouldn't bother talking about racial disparities because this college junior didn't capture every single complexity surrounding the issue in a manner which pleases the majority of the board.

Cool. You know, it is possible that she did not write the perfect piece and brought up some very real considerations. She can have privileges, and acknowledge various forms of oppression and different privileges that she doesn't have. Not sure why you're acting like there's some dichotomy. Is she not allowed to talk about race at all because she somehow managed to afford a ticket to a festival?

Yeah, her focus on hair, her framing of the issue, the language she used, it didn't work well. She has a lot to learn. Privilege is still there. Disparities are still there. The reactions to this young lady sharing her thoughts are only demonstrating the point I made originally. The words people here on DU are choosing to use are telling in and of themselves.

[TM99]

164. Why do you continue to defend this woman?

Yes, the only privilege that truly matters and has through out all of human history is money. It provides security, health, leisure, education, legal strength, political strength, and other incorporeal examples of power, influence, and prestige irrespective of class, race, gender, orientation, religion (or not), etc.

I have written here before about the failure of the post New Left language and its sorry influences on politics, activism, and progressivism. You can go read those on your own time.

Sure she can write shitty, shallow, and vapid pieces like this one, and she will be criticized for it. Sure she can right meaningless rants on cultural appropriation at an expensive music festival that she could afford to attend, and she will be called out on it.

[RedCappedBandit]

165. My post was a reflection on the responses here, which I found disturbing.

I'm not so interested in defending a random college student who wrote an imperfect commentary. An imperfect commentary which, it is again worth noting, was clearly about more than hair and her notions of cultural appropriation, yet people interestingly chose to hone in on that one piece.

I do have my own gripes with the language we've been using to describe contemporary social issues, so I actually would be interested in reading those writings, but I stand by my comments in my original post.

Interesting, the choice in language some respondents here have made, since we're talking about terminology and its effect.

Duly noted, that you believe racial privilege does not matter in the US.

[TM99]

173. You can find my posts in my profile

if you are interested.

As a bi-racial man, after almost 50 years on this planet, I still see racism, sure, but I see more privilege dealing with wealth and income inequalities yes than I see 'racial privilege' as being the issue of the day.

[RedCappedBandit]

174. I respect that. I see both as significant issues. nt

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

162. Haha

The drama surrounding "all about me" is apparently not just a white girl thing. If and when she matures she'll be more concerned about the real shit happening in and to the black community.

[TM99]

163. "All about me" is a part of being young

whether male or female, black or white or hispanic, etc.

Maybe she will mature, maybe she won't. I see sadly too many examples of this in older individuals who ignore their own 'privilege', take their 'social justice warriorism' on to the internet, and ignore the true suffering out in the real world.

Tumblr is not a soup kitchen, a prison, or war-torn inner city.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

191. Sure, it's part of being young

which is why their opinion pieces once stayed on high school and university newspapers. Now, the world wide web is their forum.

[LittleBlue]

168. Thanks for the info

I'm not familiar with electronic music. Learn something new every day.

[TM99]

172. You are welcome.

I fell in love with electronic music the first time I heard Tangerine Dream and Kraftwerk in the early 1970's.

It is one of the most racially diverse genres that I know. From white guys like Kraftwerk and SpeedyJ to Asians like Towa Tei and Yellow Magic Orchestra to blacks like Carl Cox and Juan Atkins, everyone is welcome and no one really gives a shit about you as long as you make great music.

[kwassa]

176. Your post is full of unsupported assumptions.

For this young woman to have attended means that she, like the whites she is complaining about, both share the only fucking privilege that truly matters. They are all prosperous enough to have afforded it.

But instead of self-awareness around her own privilege while other blacks are not able to go to college like she is or are not able to afford such a festival because they are working two jobs just to make ends meet, she is acting holier than thou and hypocritical while she writes her 'academic discourse' on the 'cultural appropriation' of hair styles by 'whites' at an expensive festival that she herself has the privilege to attend.

This section of your post is completely speculative.

You know nothing about her circumstances, or the cost of the performance she attended.

You project, without support, that she is financially affluent. You actually have no idea. No idea. None.

In this process, you also essentially deny white privilege, as you see the only privilege that matters is financial class, not race.

[TM99]

179. I have been very honest

in all of my posts that yes, I completely deny privilege theory and especially the modern bugaboo of 'white privilege'.

Now to address your other issues. My assumptions are based on facts that are easily sourced out.

Look up the annual tuition costs for the state university she attends. Compared to those who can not even afford that, yes, she is privileged.

Look up the costs to attend the festival in question. It will range anywhere from $500.00 to over $1000.00 for travel, lodging, and event fees. I know this because I have attended them. The kids that often attends these are usually quite financially secure which yet again means she has financial privilege.

Your assumption is that when I rightly criticize her incongruence, hypocrisy, etc. that I am calling her 'financially affluent'. Read what I wrote again.

Her hypocrisy is very apparent. She is a member of a hula hoop group at her school. It is hard to hold a straight face when you criticize whites for stealing dreads and then partake in a multi-cultural activity that traces it routes to Native American culture and Hawaiian cultures.

So yes, I confidently stand behind my sourced assumptions as to who she is and how she presents herself.

[riderinthestorm]

187. Lol, I missed the hula hoop team member!

i mean really, talking about what we know and don't know about what SHE has culturally appropriated!

[riderinthestorm]

180. Actually we can know some things about what she spent

1. The cost of the ticket was at least $240 if she managed to get in and buy it within the first 15 minutes of the festival tickets being available because that's how fast they sell out. Otherwise she spent considerably more purchasing one from someone who did get in.

2. The drive from NY to Rothbury MI is @ 14 hours. She has to have a car capable of that drive and the gas $ to make it round trip or know people who do. Even splitting gas, that's still an expensive trip.

3. She has to have the camping gear or know people who do. This is a camping festival. Maybe she actually knows people with an RV - that campsite costs thousands of dollars though....and there's extra fees tucked into attending these festivals - for example, did she take a shower there? That costs $ every time.

4. She has to be able to take off at least 5 days. A full day to get up there. 3 days for the festival and another day to get back. Many festival attendees get there on Thursday to avoid the crush of cars trying to get in which can take up to 8 hours. If she did that, she was gone for six days. No way to know if this young woman works but that's a lot of time to be off if she's got $ issues.

5. You have to have enough $ to buy a substantial portion of your weekly food budget ahead of time in order to pack your food (and drugs?) along with you. Otherwise you're at the mercy of the food vendors - $$$.

Look I know you want to make this about the dreadlocks issue but I have to ask if you've ever attended one of these music festivals? Her essay and its focus is almost a parody of the reality of these festivals, which is why it's drawing the response here that it has.

They're extremely diverse so that's a moot point. They're held on property that's out of the purview of the local police, or even the scope of the local police, so trying to compare drug busts here is laughable on the face of it. If this is really about the hair, then as a bi-racial woman with Jamaican heritage I disagree with her analysis as I've said above in my earlier convo with you.

[TM99]

189. Thank you.

Obviously you have been to these types of festivals as well.

[riderinthestorm]

194. I haven't been except my experience I outlined in post #123

but my daughter is fully hooked and tells me all about it. She's been to about 10 festivals so far - recently traveling from IL to FL for Aura last month. She's started designing and selling her own pins last year and hopes to expand into being a vendor soon. As a small business owner (and her mom), we've had a lot discussions about profit margins, net vs gross, expenses, advertising and the need to target her audience which by necessity entails detailed discussions about the "vibe" of each festival and its logistics.

This is her Etsy shop with some of her designs. She's been working like mad over the winter and waiting for about 10 more styles of her finished products to arrive this week.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/TriPPinZ

She's also on Facebook under the name Trippinz as well. I'm shocked at the market for this stuff. She's forecasting she'll be self supporting within a year.

My one and only experience was picking her up after Summercamp 2013 - my experience I outlined in post #123.

[DonCoquixote]

158. for people who do not get the OP

If several hundred Black people gather at a place, wear dreads and soem smoke weed, out come the cops, who get to use their "I was afraid for my life" defense to beat up and kill whoever they want, often getting cheered on the innternet, even here at DU (note, Zimmerman, George.)

If a bunch of white kids dop it, it is a celebration, but never as good as in the 60's, when many readers of racial and generational priviledge get their chance to say "You kids ain't as cool as we were at woodstock" despite the fact that it had a lot of drug use, and a lot of white people using Indian and Black Culture.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

159. She should have just admitted white people make her uncomfortable and gone from there

I mean, the fact she just discovered some white kids wear dreads (And I'm guessing two or three out of thousands was enough to declare the amount "astounding" for such a delicate flower) leads me to think she's led a pretty sheltered life.

Seriously, it sucks that someone that rigid attended an alternative music festival. I can't imagine she was a peach to be around.

[CJCRANE]

169. Trustafarians...

I wish I was one, they have a nice lifestyle.

[d_r]

177. the cybergoth look

https://www.google.com/search?q=cybergoth&client=ms-android-verizon&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=MLQ7LWdHJddICM%253A%252CxqX4YSj1jQuaOM%252C_%253BaRJG2csulW5wiM%253A%252CaNGegTlTXQSTBM%252C_%253BsXFa2HbRmFoEIM%253A%252CLprIqxIek5RmuM%252C_%253B39bhwOso-VwtYM%253A%252C99t8NZzosW2naM%252C_&usg=__3SOSwhJy7nSP01_6IywQ00CbBt4%3D&sa=X&ei=omA8Vby0HYGLsQX--4HIDQ&ved=0CC8Q7Ak#tbm=isch&q=cyber+goth+dreads

[VScott]

184. Silly privaleged white girls and their cultural appropriation of ethnic hairstyles

[img][/img]

[NaturalHigh]

185. Hmm...okay, I'm interested.

[NaturalHigh]

181. Well I'm convinced. I'm not going to wear dreadlocks.

[NYC_SKP]

183. How bout a Techno Viking kind of dred beard and pony tail.

This seems pretty harmless to me.

[NaturalHigh]

186. I can see that becoming a trend.

[bettydavis]

190. get on a plane and experience the African house scene

it is the biggest house market in the world and no one seems to really know in the west. I am in Johannesburg now. they basically have a "coachella" every weekend in townships across the country

South African House short documentary
https://m.