LGBTers are three dimensional human beings. Honest.

[Prism]

It's a little bothersome to me to see the current sentiment on DU and elsewhere that there's something horrifying about Bruce Jenner being a Republican. That he deserves special loathing, that it's particularly horrifying his political sentiments do not match the majority of the LGBT community.

This is actually pretty offensive, IMO. It treats gay people as a monolith who deserve disdain for not towing the political line or exhibiting enough loyalty. We see this with other minority groups (calling people Uncle Toms, etc.), but LGBTers always seem to come in for special scorn when they wander off the reservation.

The LGBT community votes D/R at about a 75/25% ratio. That means about one in four LGBTers are Republican or conservative (source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/us/politics/gay-vote-seen-as-crucial-in-obamas-victory.html).

They have their reasons, whether it be economic, foreign policy, etc. I don't agree with those reasons, but they're free to have them. Once gay marriage ebbs as a major source of bigoted exploitation in the Republican party (probably a decade or two from now), you'll probably see a shift in that ratio. Many LGBTers I know are solid Democratic votes because of LGBT rights issues, but are not particularly liberal in other areas of politics.

This massive hostility towards Jenner treats LGBTers patronizingly, and I'm not super keen on straight people telling a gay person what politics or ideology they should or should not support by virtue of their orientation or gender. It's squicky.

Frankly, Jenner doesn't seem like the brightest bulb. I didn't get the impression he really knew anything about politics. He's probably a Republican because he's wealthy. Green is often a stronger force than the rainbow for plenty of wealthy LGBTers (see the current hotelier dust-up after the Ted Cruz dinner. Another example where we feel the need to punish aggressively anyone who doesn't share our politics).

I'm not a fan of this whipping, especially when straight people are participating in it. Dislike someone for their politics or what have you. That's cool. But to declare special horror because of their orientation and single them out for vicious attack?

Eh. Like I said. Squicky. JMHO.

[PeaceNikki]

1. You make solid points. But I remain disappointed with LGBT and women who are Republicans.

As well as the poor and working class who are.

[Prism]

2. Disappointed, sure

I have conservative LGBT friends. Most vote Democratic as far as I'm aware. Some don't. They know my thoughts on the matter.

But this Jenner thing is turning into some kind of orgy of disdain. He increased visibility for transgender people and put a human face on it. Good. The rest, eh. Like I said, dim bulb.

[PeaceNikki]

3. Yeah, I totally hear you and agree 100%.

Thanks for reminding us.

[cwydro]

4. I agree.

Besides the fact that I think he's pretty dumb on all levels.

He's always seemed kinds stupid to me, and I couldn't care less about his political views.

[Rex]

5. It is horrifying about Bruce Jenner being a Republican. IMO, you could have stopped there.

The rest of it is not my concern. It is horrifying ANY SANE American would be a republican! The rest...I don't really care about.

Non-republicans and non-neoliberals have a self-course correction ability called common sense and empathy.

Republicans lack both and endanger our nation and it's people.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. I think Jenner's being a Republican confronts straight DU with their own contradictory prejudices

The last few weeks on DU, the running theme has been 'those LGBT people only care about Social issues' and many of DU's 'populists' actually believe that. So when they see Jenner very clearly having some other reasons for being a Republican that does not fit their narrative at all.
The narrative is 'LGBT care about their stuff, shoes, marriage, nightclubs while real progressives are straight and care about important issues like the economy and health care'.

Basically, straight DUers are so utterly lacking in experience with or knowledge of LGBT communities and persons that they really should not be doing so much writing about these issues as reading about them.

[Prism]

12. I facepalmed so hard reading those threads

Sigh. What can you even say to that? As if social issues exist in a vacuum. That's the kind of sentiment that can only exist when people form their politics online and on paper, rather than as an outward expression of lived experience.

[ismnotwasm]

7. Glancing through the threads

I sense an underlying transphobia, hidden by comments about her connections with a reality show family, her apparent political naïveté. I don't think this is deliberate, but it's a case of another type of privledge

If Jenner was just a Rebublican, we'd sneer at her and she wouldn't be news, but since she's a transgender Rebublican--which means, in actuality she is she, there is a certain, special disdain.

Me? I figure she's another rich Republican.

[Prism]

11. I agree

I used the word squicky, but there's some hostile undercurrent I can't quite put my finger on that you've identified.

[Cal Carpenter]

13. Just so you know

apparently Bruce said in the interview that he prefers male pronouns for the time being.

I didn't watch but I've seen several mentions of that here.

[ismnotwasm]

17. Good to know

I automatically switch pronouns the minute I understand someone is transgender. We have a dear friend we watched go through the entire process. And my husband had the hardest time with pronouns because of he length of time we knew her, before and after for that matter

[Cal Carpenter]

20. Me too

And at this point, thanks to various friends and acquaintances who are transgender it has become pretty natural to do so, I don't have to think about it and catch myself or correct myself. I have a small business and we have several clients who are trans, and as cheesy as it may sound I am incredibly happy that they seem to know that it is a safe place and we respect everyone.

What matters is what the person identifies as, and if Bruce still wants to be Bruce with male pronouns, so be it.

[msongs]

8. maybe Jenner will give a nice speech from the repub national convention main podium next yr nt

[LuvNewcastle]

16. That would be hilarious!

I'd love to see the looks on the teabaggers' faces as the cameras pan out into the crowd.

[Zorra]

9. LGBT republicans are traitors to the LGBT community. They have voted right alongside

rw christians to make my life as difficult as they possibly could for themselves and others of their kind. They are my enemy, just like all straight republicans are.

But the worst republican of all, in my worldview, is a transgender republican.

How unfathomably heartless, callous, sefl-centered, and totally lacking in empathy does someone have to be, to be a transgender republican?

This is is how heartless and lacking in empathy they are, this is what a transgender republican does to their own kind:

Transgender study looks at 'exceptionally high' suicide-attempt rate
January 28, 2014

A whopping 41% of people who are transgender or gender-nonconforming have attempted suicide sometime in their lives, nearly nine times the national average, according to a sweeping survey released three years ago.

In a new study released Tuesday, researchers dug deeper into that number, analyzing the results of the National Transgender Discrimination Survey to examine what puts transgender people at such "exceptionally high" risk.

Researchers from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law found that the risk of attempting suicide was especially severe for transgender or gender nonconforming people who had suffered discrimination or violence, such as being physically or sexually assaulted at work or school.

Among transgender people who became homeless because of bias against their gender identity, 69% said they had tried to kill themselves. Out of those who had been turned away by a doctor because they were transgender or gender-nonconforming, 60% had attempted suicide sometime in their lives, the survey found.

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/28/local/la-me-ln-suicide-attempts-alarming-transgender-20140127

If any of Bruce's children were transgender, and heaven forbid committed suicide, would he still vote republican, after his previous votes, which occurred while he was struggling with his own transgender issues and place in society, helped murder his child by making it legal to make her/his life so difficult that she or he felt so hopeless that she or he felt compelled to take her/his own life?

Like Alesana?




Please look at the graphs at this link:

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/

The conception of a transgender republican takes on a whole different sickening dimension when you look at it from the viewpoint that you are clearly assisting in the murder of children of your own kind. And maybe, someday, even your own child, if you are lucky enough to have been blest with a transgender child.

[Prism]

10. No one is my enemy

Some people are my opposition. And I do not refer to anyone in my life as a traitor.

Maybe that approach works for you, but that is not how I worked to evolve my family from anti-gay Catholics to people who welcome my partner and my friends into their homes and who now support LGBT rights and marriage. When we want empathy for ourselves, it's usually a better course to have empathy for others.

I'm aware of the tragic statistics. I've had two young men I grew up with commit suicide in my own family. It is inexpressible in its horror.

But if you think we as a community have changed this country by screaming at people and expressing hatred, I don't think you've been paying attention.

[Zorra]

14. People have changed this country by speaking out and directly confronting people who do

rotten things to innocent people.

If it were not for people getting out in the streets and saying "this is wrong, it needs to stop!", women would not have the right to vote, black folks would still be forced to the back of the bus, farmworkers would still be making $1 an hour, we'd all owe our souls to the company store, war would still be a "wonderful thing", and LGBT would be cowering in the closet fearing arrest for loving who we love and being who we are.

I'm glad your family accepts you and your partner. If it wasn't for the people who made being LGBT acceptable by coming out and forcing the issue by creating tension through direct action, you would not be so lucky.

Never mistake forcing an issue and getting right up in someone's face and screaming at them for doing rotten shit to other people as hate.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. Not at all surprising.

Last edited Sun Apr 26, 2015, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Something I seem to be saying more and more as I read here. It is the same thing I see with Jews. Despite both groups overwhelmingly vote democratic, are socially liberal, and generally supportive of a variety of things which are deemed "liberal", both groups get painted by our minority population and were are expected to "explain them" to others. What you are discussing is just another example of how far GLBT haven't come! It is heterosexism in full bloom, and should you dare buck it or challenge it, then the name-calling starts flying.

Heterosexism is the "hidden in plain sight" institutionalized bigotry which many aren't even aware and often utilized.

ETA:

And the hits keep coming...Why Are Two Wealthy Gay Men Hosting a Benefit for Ted Cruz? Israel. There is almost a fascination with minorities, especially gays, who are Republicans. It perpetuates the nasty stereotype we are all responsible for the actions of those among us and anyone from said group "represents" us. It is the same type of discrimination and bigotry we get from the right anytime a gay person is charged with pedophilia, a black person commits a crime, especially murder, a Muslim commits a terrorist act, or a Jew is involved with a financial crime. The difference in the right and left, thankfully, is when a crime is committed against one us, generally, though not always, the left will see it as an attack on our entire group.

Some of what I am seeing is nothing more than presumptuous ignorance, but it is heavily doused in heterosexism. This type of heterosexism is that unlike the majority, gays have to be of a hive mind and are unable to be "just like everyone else."

[azurnoir]

22. not sure of your point are you saying the author the piece Jay Michaelson is being heterosexist?

or was it heterosexist to post it on DU?

[romanic]

18. I was get confused with LGBT republicans

I can't understand why someone would agree with a party that actively discriminates against people like them.

Then again, everyone has a different point of view regarding politics. I'm sure some gay or trans republicans dislike their party's stand on social issues, but may agree with the right's economics. It's complex to say the least.

Regardless I support my fellow LGBT brothers and sisters, even if they're politics go against mines.

[PeaceNikki]

19. After having watched the interview, I'm really disappointed that this was the pivotal moment for

Many here. It's sad and pathetic. There was about 60 seconds dedicated to his political leanings.

Like or hate him, he's bringing the conversation to the table. Regardless of his politics, if he can help make it easier for others or open up eyes, good on him.

[Zorra]

21. Can you guess why many transgender/transsexual people kill themselves in large numbers?

It is because so much vicious hate gets expressed towards them every day that they can't handle it anymore. Why live in a world where there is so much hate? The almost universal ostracism is devastating. Transgender/transsexual people experience the full brunt of the direct, and indirect, spoken and unspoken, hard cold plain ugly, ugly meanness that exists in far too human beings.

They actually live the stone cold facts about how many really mean, shitty people are out there. No group in the history of modern "civilization" has ever been more mocked, scorned, and hated for no reason (other than conservatism), than transgender/transsexual people.

Bruce is feeling a fairly heavy dose of teh hate right now, (tempered somewhat by his celebrity), yet is publicly supporting, and is actually being, and possibly financing, the cause and perpetuation of the hate directed at him at the same time, without any apparent cognitive dissonance.

Why does this hate get expressed toward him, and all other transgender/transsexual people every day?

It is because of conservative people throughout history promoting and maintaining a cultural consciousness of hate towards anyone and everything that is different from the "norm" of hate they created, and presently work so assiduously to maintain.

Hating transgender/transsexual people is not just simply "the way things are", the natural order of the universe. This phenomenon is the result of long term cultivation and positive reinforcement for hatred expressed toward transgender/transsexual persons by conservatives.

In the US, it is primarily republicans who work to continue to foster and maintain the cultural consciousness that causes transgender/transsexual people to be almost universally scorned and hated with such a great widespread degree of viciousness that it causes utter hopelessness and suicide among children. By financing, voting for and electing public officials who work to maintain the status quo of hatred and ostracism toward the transgender community, republicans will stubbornly continue to maintain this status quo of hate until love, hopefully, eventually defeats them.

I'm enormously sympathetic to Bruce's struggle, a struggle that is very similar in most ways, to that of every transgender/transsexual person. If he had come out as a child or teenager, his struggle would have taken a different route, and I guarantee he would not be a republican today if he had. One arrest for using the women's restroom would have cured all notions of making the choice to be a republican right quick. And the thing is, while feeling forced to live the lie that all closeted transgender/transsesxual people live, he got to ride on the great white republican male highway to success, never having had to struggle with either the massive discrimination directed towards women, or the even more blatant discrimination directed towards transgender/transsexual people. He got to be a wealthy republican because he got all the advantages of a straight white male in a straight white male patriarchy for 50 years or more of his life. Granted, being closeted, and transgender, is a very difficult thing in itself; and it is a wonderful thing for Bruce to finally begin to really live as who she really is.

It is also one of the best reasons in the world not be a republican, or support the republican party.

So please forgive me if I am somewhat indignant, and not entirely pleased, that the only out wealthy transgender republican in the entire world, who lives in the safe, shiny, pretty world of wealthy republicans, is the new face of the transgender/transsexual community. His being a republican is not the only thing I took from the interview, but it is the thing that shocked me, and the rest of the interview was nothing unique, nothing I haven't heard before a hundred times. I already know several former "star linebackers", etc. who really, really, wished they could be the cheerleaders instead. I sincerely hope that a great deal of progress is made from his admission as a well known celebrity that he was born transgender. It can happen to anyone; he got lucky. In a perfect world, the birth of a transgender/transsexual child would be considered a unique blessing to the culture. At one time, in some cultures, it was considered a blessing to the culture, before conservative Euro-christian imperialists genocided transgender/transsexual people and their supportive cultures, before conservative Euro-christian imperialists spread their cultures of conservative hate and discrimination throughout most of the western hemisphere.

The bottom line is that I'm really hoping someone will inform Bruce, that in the real world where most transgender/transsexual people live, that John Boehner, and/or 99% of the rest of the republican politicians, will do nothing but work hard to prevent transgender/transsexual people from gaining even a smidgen more equality, that their RW religious conservative support base would not stand for it.

I'm hoping that someone will help him come to the realization that, if he was not a wealthy celebrity, the stark reality of the rampant hatred and discrimination toward transgender/transsexual people so prevalent in this country might very well force him to sell his homeless ass, and/or sell drugs on the street, like many transsexual/transgender women I know have been forced to do, because they can't afford housing due to the fact that no one will employ them and have the legal right to refuse them employment. Not to mention that landlords in much of the US have the legal right to refuse housing to transgender/transsexual persons....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca-juro/fired-for-being-trans-the-rest-of-the-story_b_3599933.html

....because republicans vote for and elect republican legislators who will keep transgender/transsexual people in this condition of extreme inequality and extreme emotional and physical danger in perpetuity if they possibly can, and this is never going to change by having a chat over tea and campaign contributions with John Boehner, or any other republican legislator.

Being poor in itself is extremely difficult. Being poor and transgender/transsexual is difficult times 10.

Hopefully, Bruce will come to a fully conscious understanding of the unjustifiable, extreme harm that the republican party does to every transgender/transsexual person every single day, and quickly evolve out of his choice to be a member of a group that causes so much ongoing pain to him and to his very own transgender community.