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Quote submitted for your consideration and without comment (Original Post) Kurska Apr 2015 OP
Another quote, also from MLK gollygee Apr 2015 #1
Genuine question, do you think riots advance civil rights? Kurska Apr 2015 #6
No idea gollygee Apr 2015 #8
So you can't say whether you think they are productive or not for civil rights. Kurska Apr 2015 #9
I said that I'm not a sociologist or a historian gollygee Apr 2015 #10
More from MLK gollygee Apr 2015 #2
Yet more from MLK gollygee Apr 2015 #3
Non-violence is taking a beating this morning on DU. stone space Apr 2015 #4
More again gollygee Apr 2015 #5
Nonviolence is powerful, but it requires someone with charisma and leadership to Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #7

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
1. Another quote, also from MLK
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:14 PM
Apr 2015

"I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard."

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
6. Genuine question, do you think riots advance civil rights?
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:27 PM
Apr 2015

From your quotes, he talks of them as a tragic consequence of a failure of society to change. Yet there are many people here defending them as something good (don't tell me there aren't, I can't count the number of "the 1% need to be taught a lesson posts).

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
8. No idea
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:29 PM
Apr 2015

I don't think people who are rioting are the ones perpetuating the most violence, and their violence seems to be against property more than people, as opposed to the police.

Riots were a part of the 60s civil rights movement and that movement did a lot of good. I have no idea whether the riots helped or not. My general feeling is that they are understandable but regrettable expressions of anger and are probably both expressions of and examples of futility, but I'm not a historian or a sociologist.

I was responding more to your selective quoting of Dr. King.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
9. So you can't say whether you think they are productive or not for civil rights.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:36 PM
Apr 2015

You seem to be equivocating between both sides of the issue.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
10. I said that I'm not a sociologist or a historian
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:39 PM
Apr 2015

I note that riots were a part of the 1960s civil rights movement, and that movement had some success. I don't know if the riots helped or not. My feeling is that they are futile but I am not an expert.

Regardless, I think the violence of the riots, which is aimed at property, is much less than the violence the rioters are upset about, which is violence against people.

I don't know how much more clearly I can say that.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
2. More from MLK
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:19 PM
Apr 2015

This bloodlust interpretation ignores one of the most striking features of the city riots. Violent they certainly were. But the violence, to a startling degree, was focused against property rather than against people. There were very few cases of injury to persons, and the vast majority of the rioters were not involved at all in attacking people. The much publicized “death toll” that marked the riots, and the many injuries, were overwhelmingly inflicted on the rioters by the military. It is clear that the riots were exacerbated by police action that was designed to injure or even to kill people. As for the snipers, no account of the riots claims that more than one or two dozen people were involved in sniping. From the facts, and unmistakable pattern emerges: a handful of Negroes used gunfire substantially to intimidate, not to kill; and all of the other participants had a different target—property.

I am aware that there are many who wince at a distinction between property and persons—who hold both sacrosanct. My views are not so rigid. A life is sacred. Property is intended to serve life, and no matter how much we surround it with rights and respect, it has no personal being. It is part of the earth man walks on; it is not man.

The focus on property in the 1967 riots is not accidental. It has a message; it is saying something.

If hostility to whites were ever going to dominate a Negro’s attitude and reach murderous proportions, surely it would be during a riot. But this rare opportunity for bloodletting was sublimated into arson, or turned into a kind of stormy carnival of free-merchandise distribution. Why did the rioters avoid personal attacks? The explanation cannot be fear of retribution, because the physical risks incurred in the attacks on property were no less than for personal assaults. The military forces were treating acts of petty larceny as equal to murder. Far more rioters took chances with their own lives, in their attacks on property, than threatened the life of anyone else. Why were they so violent with property then? Because property represents the white power structure, which they were attacking and trying to destroy. A curious proof of the symbolic aspect of the looting for some who took part in it is the fact that, after the riots, police received hundreds of calls from Negroes trying to return merchandise they had taken. Those people wanted the experience of taking, of redressing the power imbalance that property represents. Possession, afterward, was secondary.

A deeper level of hostility came out in arson, which was far more dangerous than the looting. But it, too, was a demonstration and a warning. It was designed to express the depth of anger in the community.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
3. Yet more from MLK
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:21 PM
Apr 2015

Let us say it boldly, that if the total slum violations of law by the white man over the years were calculated and were compared with the lawbreaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
4. Non-violence is taking a beating this morning on DU.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:21 PM
Apr 2015

Folks criticizing non-violence as ineffective are not telling us what act of violence we can take that will solve all of our problems, however, so I just see it as discouraging folks from engaging in any sort of struggle at all, not just from nonviolent struggle.




gollygee

(22,336 posts)
5. More again
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:22 PM
Apr 2015

"I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government"

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
7. Nonviolence is powerful, but it requires someone with charisma and leadership to
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:27 PM
Apr 2015

make it work.

It does not guarantee that violence will not be used against the protesters, only that they will not use violence.

I haven't seen anyone with the gravitas of King.

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