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Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:25 PM Apr 2015

On the Destruction of Property to Affect Change:

This is an old Rolling Stone article, but does seem apt for today's circumstances. Of course, there are way more than nine examples, but this should get people to think of the desperation when people do resort to violence:

1. The Boston Tea Party

Go figure: The 2010 libertarian-conservative insurgency claimed historical lineage from an act of property destruction. In 1773, British Parliament adopted the Tea Act, which encountered resistance across the Atlantic not, as is so often supposed, because it hiked taxes (it effectively lowered them), but because it imposed the supremacy of a capitalist monopoly, the East India Company, over the political rights claimed by colonists – as Englishmen. Some wildcat radicals left a Boston political meeting over the objections of a frustrated Samuel Adams, dressed up as Mohawk warriors (the better to preserve their anonymity – perhaps prefiguring a black bloc), and destroyed 342 chests of tea in Boston Harbor as an act of protest. Workers had produced that tea, capitalists had risked investment on it, and it was not the colonists' to destroy, but they said "fuck property rights" and did it anyway. Today's conservatives don't seem bothered by this inconvenient history, though, because think of the dress-up opportunities!

2. Smashing Columbus' Ship

In 1502, Christopher Columbus arrived in what is now Panamá to a people who were suspicious of his intentions, even though they didn't know about his ambitions for conquest, or his history of cutting off appendages of Arawak and Taino people in the drive for gold. When local Ngäbe leader el Quibian began to trade with and house Columbus and his brother Bartolomeo, he made the colonialists commit not to overstaying their welcome or go too far down the rivers. Eventually the Columbus brothers tried to trick and execute el Quibian, but he escaped, organized an alliance with his neighbors, and destroyed Bartolomeo Columbus' ship as it attempted to stray further down a river than was agreed upon. The ship didn't stand a chance, and neither did the Columbus brothers. Over 500 years later, the Ngäbe people are still free and largely autonomous, and still having to destroy the property of colonialists who try to steal their land. We recommend taking a shot of seco herrerano to el Quiban next Columbus Day.

3. Slave Uprisings

There is a longtime debate among historians about why Black subjects of chattel slavery in the U.S. had fewer major rebellions than their counterparts in the Caribbean and Brazil. Many major rebellions were prevented before they began, and others were suppressed too quickly, but much has been written on the other forms of class war waged by slaves, from work slowdowns, to escape, to the sabotage of the property of the planters. Samuel, a slave under prominent Natchez, Mississippi, politician John Quitman, broke an expensive new plow. Another slave injured some of Quitman's family by driving a carriage into an embankment on the way to a wedding. The number of these incidents are countless, and most went unrecorded, but the property was always fair game to those people who themselves were considered property.

4. The Molly Maguires

The word "sabotage" itself comes from an old form of property damage used for class struggle. If bosses tried to get one over on workers, the workers would respond by chucking a shoe (or sabot) into the machinery of production. This tradition was carried on by the Irish immigrants in Pennsylvania's coal mines in the 1870s, who had experience with class struggle against landlords back in the homeland. After emigrating across the Atlantic Ocean, they found that in order to demand safety in a very deadly workplace, fight wage theft, and gain basic labor rights, they had to create secret societies like the Molly Maguires to bomb train tracks and destroy coalmines. If they couldn't work in the mines safely, no one should be working in them.

5. Venus In Shreds

On March 10th, 1914, in response to the arrest of suffragette leader Emmeline Pankhurst a day prior, Mary Richardson brought a meat cleaver into the National Gallery in London, and slashed up the shoulders, back, and neck of Venus, as painted by Diego Velazquez. Richardson later explained that she objected to "the way men visitors gaped" at the nude body, prone on a bed and admiring her reflection in a cherub-held mirror. "If there is an outcry against my deed," Richardson said, "let every one remember that such an outcry is an hypocrisy so long as they allow the destruction of Mrs Pankhurst and other beautiful living women." In the end, the painting was restored, Richardson's political leanings took a sharp right-hand turn, and British women obtained the right to vote.

6. Mandela's Guerrilla Force

After the passing of Nelson Mandela last year, there was an all-too-typical attempt to whitewash his past – but the Apartheid regime was not defeated by Western rockstars demanding Mandela's freedom alone. In the early 1960s, Mandela organized the Umkhonto we Sizwe (the MK) guerrillas alongside the South African Communist Party. The MK bombed the communications, transit and energy infrastructure that helped run the Apartheid economy. Mandela considered the sabotage a necessary method of escalation that would hopefully preempt the need for guerrilla warfare (which he and his associated did not take off the table). For this, Mandela was branded a terrorist by Western governments, which have in the intervening decades gotten no better at accurately applying that label.

7. The Plowshares Eight

Trespassing onto a Pennsylvania General Electric Nuclear Missile facility in September 1980, a group of eight pious Christians, among them priests and nuns, took hammers to the nose cones of two Mark 12A warheads and poured their own blood on the facility's papers in a call for peace. The Biblical injunction for such destruction can be found in the Book of Isaiah's prophesy that the people of many nations "shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: national shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." The "Plowshares Eight" did prison time for their activism, but today remain unrepentant. Hallelujah.

8. Tear Down This Wall

The dismantling of the border dividing Berlin happened in phases. First, over the course of the fall of 1989, as sweeping border reforms precipitated a refugee crisis throughout the Soviet bloc, East Germans withdrew their political consent for the division of Germany, with rallies reaching the hundreds of thousands in East Berlin by early November, forcing the government to loosen the border. Owing to a botched announcement, people gathered in enormous numbers on the evening of Novermber 9th, overwhelming the border-enforcing soldiers. Having effectively destroyed the legal/social border, the East Germans took it upon themselves to physically destroy its concrete representation, showing up with renegade sledgehammers and, woodpecker-like, creating new crossing points, leading to more official action. It seems now that over half of East Germans miss communist party rule, but don't let that mitigate the badassery of literally smashing an oppressive border – a model Palestinians have tried to emulate with the land-grabbing separation wall that encloses the West Bank.

9. Frack The Police

Indigenous resistance in the Americas is not a story that ends centuries ago with the survivors of genocide left in poverty on reservations – it is still being written. The M'ikmaq people of the Elsipogtog First Nation took a stand against corporate resource extraction in 2013 when they spent months sabotaging efforts to start fracking near their land. When they blockaded the Southwestern Energy subsidiary's exploratory trucks, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police moved in with overwhelming force, pointing snipers at areas with small children and M'ikmaq elders. Someone in the community responded by setting five RCMP vehicles on the scene afire, and other police vehicles were damaged in later clashes. The fracking still hasn't begun, and at least one Canadian province has since banned fracking, proving that, once again, direct action gets the goods.



Read more: Rolling Stone

48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
On the Destruction of Property to Affect Change: (Original Post) Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 OP
In the King of Prussia: The Trial of the Plowshares Eight stone space Apr 2015 #1
Thank you for posting. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #2
It was a powerful act of non-violence, which seems to be getting a bad name these days. (nt) stone space Apr 2015 #5
Nobody paid attention to the Baltimore protests until they started breaking stuff. Cheese Sandwich Apr 2015 #3
And I'm castigated from hell to back from making that point ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #4
Even if I were to completely disagree with all or any particular thing you say, Hissyspit Apr 2015 #6
Yep ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #7
First - thank you for this post JustAnotherGen Apr 2015 #31
Thank you for understanding! Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #36
Hell, the NeoCons themselves embrace a philosophy of 'creative destruction,' but only KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #40
Very good points! Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #47
No people who suffered under long time oppression ever succeeded in gaining rights without sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #10
The terms "looting and rioting" are empty phrases ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #11
Seems to be the case. backscatter712 Apr 2015 #17
The common thread of each of these examples... brooklynite Apr 2015 #8
Who owned all the property the US 'looted' when they staged a massive riot in Iraq? sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #12
I wasn't aware the United States Government had killed anyone in Baltimore... brooklynite Apr 2015 #13
A government has ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #14
I said the US staged a riot, which they seem to be condemning in Baltimore, in several other sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #15
Well, it's easier to blame the victim, sabrina 1. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #20
Sons of Liberty were protesting the East Indies Tea Company? ieoeja Apr 2015 #18
Excellent! nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #9
The major difference pipi_k Apr 2015 #16
Yup. The East Indies Tea Company absolutely had it coming. n/t ieoeja Apr 2015 #19
So, you support the people that destroyed that elder assisted living facility under comstruction? Adrahil Apr 2015 #21
It's quaint that you put words in my mouth. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #23
I think you're being too cute by half. Adrahil Apr 2015 #28
"I can see no other reason you'd post this stuff." Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #30
From the TOS Adrahil Apr 2015 #22
I'm glad I didn't break any rules then. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #24
I think you're dancing on the line... n/t Adrahil Apr 2015 #26
I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #29
Effect, not affect Recursion Apr 2015 #25
Um, no. It's "to affect change." Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #27
Nope. Look it up Recursion Apr 2015 #32
You have it backwards. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #33
Yes, effect is a noun and verb. So is affect. Recursion Apr 2015 #34
My apologies ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #43
He's right, actually. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #38
Yes, today, I learned. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #44
I learn new things every day here. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #48
Dude. You have obviously have access to the internet. So there's no excuse for this. nt Romulox Apr 2015 #39
I have apologized. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #45
Don't forget the hypocrisy of the media. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #35
The Bastille was government property at the time too. hobbit709 Apr 2015 #37
So was the Armory at Harper's Ferry. I wonder how many of those condemning KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #41
When you stop to think about it, this whole fucking country was built on KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #42
"Stealing the life and labor of Africans ..." Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2015 #46
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
1. In the King of Prussia: The Trial of the Plowshares Eight
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:35 PM
Apr 2015
7. The Plowshares Eight

Trespassing onto a Pennsylvania General Electric Nuclear Missile facility in September 1980, a group of eight pious Christians, among them priests and nuns, took hammers to the nose cones of two Mark 12A warheads and poured their own blood on the facility's papers in a call for peace. The Biblical injunction for such destruction can be found in the Book of Isaiah's prophesy that the people of many nations "shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: national shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." The "Plowshares Eight" did prison time for their activism, but today remain unrepentant. Hallelujah.


There was a movie made about this, in which the 8 defendants played themselves, and Martin Sheen played the judge. The courtroom dialogue was based on court transcripts.


IN THE KING OF PRUSSIA: THE TRIAL OF THE PLOWSHARES 8 takes us back to 1982 with Emile de Antonio's portrayal of the Plowshares 8 civic disobedience at General Electric's nuclear weapons plant in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. The group included Molly Rush, co-founder of the Merton Center. Posting of this cliip celebrates the April 13 visit of Martin Sheen, who plays the judge in the movie, to Pittsburgh, Pa and the Thomas Merton Center. YOU CAN'T HUG A CHILD WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!!!


Music
"The Crow On The Cradle" by Jackson Browne, Graham Nash & David Lindley (AmazonMP3)


Category
Nonprofits & Activism


License
Standard YouTube License




 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
3. Nobody paid attention to the Baltimore protests until they started breaking stuff.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:44 PM
Apr 2015

Saturday they were protesting, but DU cared more about the Whitehouse Press Dinner and comedy show.

It seems like they have to riot to get people's attention.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
4. And I'm castigated from hell to back from making that point ...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:51 PM
Apr 2015

... at least, I was yesterday at a bar I was at.

I'm tired of the apologists. I'm not wanting violence, and neither do most of these people, but sometimes you get pushed too far. If no one is listening, then you have to start banging on some drums.

The state has a monopoly on the use of violence, and through this implied threat and coercion, it expects its citizens to dutifully obey and take anything the state says.

Again, I'm not advocating violence, but I do understand those that use it.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
6. Even if I were to completely disagree with all or any particular thing you say,
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:08 PM
Apr 2015

it AMAZES me how many people twist themselves into knots to ignore the simple basic fact: "Nobody paid attention to the Baltimore protests until they started breaking stuff."

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
7. Yep ...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:10 PM
Apr 2015

... again, power, in most circumstances, only understands violence. When it becomes too costly for them to keep fucking with people, then they will stop. Not one moment before.

It's true ... and it is quite sad.

JustAnotherGen

(31,809 posts)
31. First - thank you for this post
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:46 AM
Apr 2015
Very informative.

And second - I was paying attention - mostly because I have a dear old friend of 27 years who lives in Baltimore and was participating in the protests with her little girl. And you know - it makes me double down on putting the word 'riot' in an op in the AA Group. Sometimes the duck is a duck.

It was a riot on Monday afternoon. There were protests this past weekend (some 10K people peacefully trying to bring MUCH Needed change in their commuity). Protests will continue to happen (I hope so - now is the time to reload with words and civil disobedience - not retreat).

Me - I'm kind of happy we have slave revolts and the BTP. Out of the fire - sometimes really good things come. In the case of the slave revolts - I hope it's not years from now. I want the change . . . 20 years ago.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
36. Thank you for understanding!
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:18 AM
Apr 2015

I've gotten much flack in bars and on here at DU.



I'm not saying I want the violence, or that it's even particularly needed in this case (I'm not there), or that there is never any instance where violence should be used, or that violence should be used in every instance! Nothing is absolute. There are varying shades even within the color gray!

I am saying that I understand that when people are pushed to a point where all other options have been exhausted, if they do resort to violence. Nothing wrong with trying to understand it.

I'm pro-peace, for instance, but I'm not a pacifist. If a situation gets to a point where I have to protect myself, my family, or even someone I don't know, I will use violence.

I must say, though, that I do lament innocent civilians and owners of community based stores. On a moral basis, it's repugnant to me; on a pragmatic basis, it's counter-productive. I would probably ask that if they need to destroy property, they direct that destruction to the forces of power - corporate buildings for example. I'm not advocating that, but if I felt the need to do something like that, it wouldn't be a mom & pop shop within my own community - again on both a moral and pragmatic basis.

I follow a philosophy where my actions are formulated by the context of events around me. And I leave all options open depending on the circumstance. I try to live by the standards of the peaceful anarchists, Leo Tolstoy and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, the latter who shied away from revolution, and tended towards "build a new society within the shell of the old." However, I also understand that there may ever be a need to use violence such as espoused by Mikhail Bakunin, The Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of the Ukraine - the Black Army (fighting with the red army against the white army, and then fighting the red army when the latter betrayed the former) to affect a social change in the Soviet Union.

Of course, I'm only using historical examples to stress my point. For instance, it was the Haymarket Martyrs (anarchists), who were accused falsely of killing a police officer with a bomb. They were hanged merely for protesting the disgusting working conditions at the time. They brought about the 8 hour work day. They were a mixture of violent and peaceful anarchists, but both brought about a social change - that we may have a few hours in the day left to enjoy with our families, or pursue other interests. Having accomplished this, Adolf Fisher, one of the anarchists hanged, right before he was dropped, cried out, "Hoorah for anarchy! Today is the best day of my life!" - Wow, to be so passionate as to proclaim the best day of his life was his last!

Anyway, "be realistic; demand the impossible" in whatever fashion that is most apt!

Anyway, thank you for even attempting to understand my point of view, without putting words in my mouth as others have seen fit to do.

I wish you well!

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
40. Hell, the NeoCons themselves embrace a philosophy of 'creative destruction,' but only
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:50 AM
Apr 2015

when it comes to brown-skinned peoples and their properties in far-away lands. I suppose for the NeoCons and their enablers and sycophants, the attitude about destruction\violence depends entirely on whose ox is being gored.

I'm also guessing that half the people who are currently cherry-picking MLK, Jr. quotes to shame the Baltimore resistance would have probably secretly approved of MLK, Jr.'s assassination back in '68. (MLK, Jr. once famously said that he considered white liberals a far greater barrier to progress than the KKK or White Citizens Councils, because white liberals wanted peace without justice, what MLK referred to as a 'negative peace.' Nazi Germany, it should be noted, also enjoyed peace from 1933-39.)

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
47. Very good points!
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 11:52 AM
Apr 2015

About the supposedly necessary violence of the neocons (and that of the state). Correct, so which violence is acceptable and which is not?

One leads to appropriation of wealth, and one leads to social justice. Not advocating means vs ends, but if we're going to have qualms about violence, let's put things in perspective!

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
10. No people who suffered under long time oppression ever succeeded in gaining rights without
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:40 PM
Apr 2015

breaking stuff.

It's sad but true.

I wish that things were different, but let's face it, oppressors are not the type to listen to reason.

I'd like to hear some solutions from those who rush to condemn a brutalized people when they finally cannot take it anymore?

Hundreds of years of waiting is a long time, and kudos to AAs for their patience but it hasn't worked.

I'd love to hear something other than 'looting and rioting isn't the answer' because it always stops there.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
11. The terms "looting and rioting" are empty phrases ...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:00 PM
Apr 2015

... designed to divert attention to the proverbial "shiny object" so that the substance of the issue is disregarded, ignored, or rationalized.

brooklynite

(94,493 posts)
8. The common thread of each of these examples...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:14 PM
Apr 2015

...is that the property belonged to the people or Government being protested.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
12. Who owned all the property the US 'looted' when they staged a massive riot in Iraq?
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:16 PM
Apr 2015

4 million of the previous owners of that property are living in refugee camps in Jordan and Syria.

For a nation whose very own Foreign Policies are racist, brutal and terrifying to those they loot from, to get all moralistic over a store burning, when they ignore the murder by cop of over 5,000 American citizens over ten years, shouldn't surprise anyone. The hypocrisy is of massive proportions.

Property damage, look at the attention it is getting, the outrage at the very notion that anyone would even think to do such a thing.

Then look at the reaction over ten years by those very same people to the thousands of murders committed by Cops.

Something is a little off in this country, and that's putting it mildly.

I'm surprised there are so few riots considering the level of violence and destruction of property caused by the so-called Civilian Police. And I don't necessarily lay all the blame at the feet of the thugs that are being hired to police this country.

Where is the Government action to stop this slaughter of American citizens by Cop?

We ran off to Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia, and thrashed their people and countries because of 9/11.

We were told how much our government 'cared' about its people that they simply HAD to go get revenge on their behalf.

How come then, if they care so much about the people, the daily brutalization of Americans, mostly minorities and the poor, doesn't raise an eyebrow until they set something on fire, then the outraged is directed at THEM?

brooklynite

(94,493 posts)
13. I wasn't aware the United States Government had killed anyone in Baltimore...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:50 PM
Apr 2015

...and I've never been a supporter of the "If 'A' isn't held liable for a crime, 'B' shouldn't be held liable for a different crime' way of thinking.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
14. A government has ...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:07 PM
Apr 2015

... And that government is part if the United States.

And comparisons are allowed to be made.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
15. I said the US staged a riot, which they seem to be condemning in Baltimore, in several other
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:19 PM
Apr 2015

countries.

And when the police, who are paid with tax dollars, killed and brutalized people in Baltimore over the past number of years, we heard nothing from those now so outraged over a burning store.

US Government while it continues to pillage and destroy entire nations, throws a fit when brutalized American citizens finally have enough of being treated like enemies in their own country and destroys some property.

Shouldn't they have been sending the NG to protect those citizens from those criminals in the PD?

Perhaps you are not aware of what has been going in Baltimore? This latest murder of an AA in Baltimore, like the murder of Michael Brown in Ferguson, was the final straw. They certainly were not the only AAs murdered and/or brutalized in those communities. But sometimes things reach a tipping point when there is no justice to be found.

And where will it happen next because these two communities are far from the only communities to have suffered so much injustice and brutality at the hands of the police.

And will there be the same faux surprise and outrage the next time, or will SOMEONE in our Federal Govt begin to intervene on behalf of the citizens so they can live without fear in their own country.

Because it's way past time to start, way too late for all those who have died.


 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
18. Sons of Liberty were protesting the East Indies Tea Company?
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:25 PM
Apr 2015

It's the tea! They hate the tea! Stay away from the tea!



FYI: for the record the Boston Tea Party was not a protest. In response to the tea boycott, the British government told the Massachussettes Bay Colony that the colonial government would have to purchase the tea. The Sons of Liberty reasoned, "they can't make the colony purchase what does not exist," so set out to destroy the tea.

In the meantime across the pond colonial lawyers successfully fought the purchase requirement. The British court ruled that the government could not make the colony purchase the tea. When word of the "Tea Party" reached Britian, the exact same judge ruled that the colony was unaccountable for the safety of the ship while in their harbor. The colony was ordered to pay for the lost tea.

The Tea Party caused the very thing it was intended to prevent. It completely and totally backfired.

But it was remembered as an iconic protest that helped spark a revolution. The Sons of Liberty may have been stupid, but they were also lucky.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
16. The major difference
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:45 PM
Apr 2015

I see between those examples and what happened in Baltimore last night is that those examples above were directed toward the people/entities who had done the destroyers of property wrong.

In the case of Baltimore, the property of people who had absolutely. nothing. to do with the death of Freddy Gray was destroyed.


Senior citizens (a senior center plus affordable housing units). People working at/patronizing the CVS. A liquor store. People whose cars were burned to nothing on the streets.


That makes as much sense as being punched in the face by your next door neighbor and then taking revenge against the guy who lives down the block.


Why anyone thinking victimizing and terrorizing innocents is a great idea, I'll never know.

sigh...



 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
21. So, you support the people that destroyed that elder assisted living facility under comstruction?
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 07:40 AM
Apr 2015

I suppose you'll free up a bedroom or two to care for the people that facility was intended to serve?

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
28. I think you're being too cute by half.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:44 AM
Apr 2015

Posting all sorts of "destruction of property was justified" kind of stuff in the context of Baltimore riots suggests at least a certain sympathy with the tactic. It's not a stretch. If you're gonna support a point, at least do it, and don;t be mealy mouthed about it.

I can see no other reason you'd post this stuff.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
22. From the TOS
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 07:44 AM
Apr 2015

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
24. I'm glad I didn't break any rules then.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:29 AM
Apr 2015

I do, however, appreciate you taking the time to provide the TOS that I've already read. That's quite productive of you.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
29. I'm glad you have an opinion on the matter.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:44 AM
Apr 2015

Feel free to alert should you feel that the OP is too alarming for you.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
25. Effect, not affect
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:39 AM
Apr 2015

Effect means to bring about, affect means to pretend. Unless you really meant "pretend", which would be an awesome subtle argument.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
32. Nope. Look it up
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:46 AM
Apr 2015

Effect as a verb means to cause or bring about. Affect as a verb means to pretend or alter. (But you're not altering the change, you're bringing about the change.)

Just a pet peeve of a former copy editor.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
34. Yes, effect is a noun and verb. So is affect.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 09:58 AM
Apr 2015

Check Strunk & White. Or, your own link, which says exactly what I'm saying.

http://grammarist.com/usage/affect-effect/

You aren't trying to change ("affect&quot change, you're trying to bring about ("effect&quot change.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
43. My apologies ...
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 11:44 AM
Apr 2015

... It was I who was wrong.

I'll leave my replies up so the context is there for the correction.

Thanks for the clarification.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
38. He's right, actually.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:25 AM
Apr 2015

Both words can be used as both nouns and verbs, and you 'effect' change.

And your own link demonstrates why it's effect.

As a verb, affect is a synonym for change.

His study was intended to show how alcohol affects reaction time.


Means "His study was intended to show how alcohol changes reaction time."

As a verb, effect means 'to bring about' or 'to produce'.

Smith said the cutbacks were designed to effect basic economies for the company.


Means "Smith said the cutbacks were designed to bring about basic economies for the company."

Which makes more sense for your title?

"On the Destruction of Property to Change Change" or "On the Destruction of Property to Bring About Change"?

If you mean 'to bring about', then you want effect, not affect.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
45. I have apologized.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 11:46 AM
Apr 2015

And am grateful for the clarification.

Now, I'd like to really get back to the actual thread topic.

And by the way:

Dude. You have obviously have access to the internet. So there's no excuse for this. nt


You have access to the internet, as well.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
35. Don't forget the hypocrisy of the media.
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:17 AM
Apr 2015

While sanctimoniously upbraiding those who engage in violence at protests, they continue to provide coverage pretty much only insomuch as violence occurs. Hold protests without violence, and they'll be in the news MAYBE a day or two if you're lucky. With violence, the media is glued to the protests.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
41. So was the Armory at Harper's Ferry. I wonder how many of those condemning
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:59 AM
Apr 2015

the Baltimore resistance would have also condemned John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
42. When you stop to think about it, this whole fucking country was built on
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 11:02 AM
Apr 2015

looting and plundering from its original inhabitants and stealing the life and labor of Africans brought here against their will. Looting thus has an illustrious American pedigree and all the hypocritical posturing about Baltimore proves La Rochefoucauld's maxim that 'Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue.'

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
46. "Stealing the life and labor of Africans ..."
Wed Apr 29, 2015, 11:49 AM
Apr 2015

... and after murdering the natives and stealing their land, too.

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