I am not a registered Democrat. I can't be. Neither can Bernie

[cali]

We're Vermonters. You can't register as a Democrat or anything else here. there is no party registration.

[daleanime]

1. I did not know that.....

[VanillaRhapsody]

2. But do you CALL yourself a Democrat?

does Bernie?

[morningfog]

7. Yes.

He is a Democratic Socialist. He will be running as a Democrat.

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. Has Bernie called HIMSELF a Democrat?

Or is it just you there doing it?

[morningfog]

10. He calls himself a Democratic Socialist and will be rinning against Hillary as a Democrat.

Pick your rolling self off the floor and try to understand.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. That is NOT a member of the Democratic Party...sorry charlie....

starkist tuna only excepts the best....

I can be elected democratically to be prom queen...and that is what it means in THAT context!

[Renew Deal]

12. You just said the opposite of what you thought you said.

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. No I didn't...

[Renew Deal]

67. except and accept have different meanings.

[morningfog]

17. What are you not understanding? He will be running for president as a Democrat against

Hillary in the Democratic Primary.

Do you understand?

I mean, I understand why you hope that this wouldn't happen. But, you do understand this, right? It is not complicated.

[smokey nj]

34. Don't bother. Seriously.

It refuses to get it.

[morningfog]

38. Oh, I know. And it is willful.

But I enjoy watching posters make utter asses of themselves.

[VanillaRhapsody]

45. My point is...UNLESS he says he is a Democrat...he is still and Independent running for the

Democratic Primary....because he COULD also do that....

I am not hoping anything.....just pointing out the facts....he doesn't have to announce in Vermont...and unless he rejects his "independence" and proclaims himself a Democrat...he still isn't one...BECAUSE he doesn't have to....

Pretty clear...

[morningfog]

79. He will have to say he is running as a Democrat to appear on some ballots.

And he will be running as a Democrat. He will not have to register, and as cali points out, he could not even register as a Democrat in Vermont.

He could not say he was running as an Independent and be on the ballots. He will be running as a Democrat in the Democratic primary against Hillary Clinton and to her left. This is a great thing and will make the primary far more meaningful and exciting than it otherwise would be.

[Ken Burch]

103. It's enough that he seeks the Democratic nomination.

Give the McCarthyism a rest. It's only the right-wing that are supposed to play the "Loyalty" card.

[betterdemsonly]

41. Ok you are being goofy. According to you no Vermonter can run

for the Presidential nomination of the Democrats? There are no registered Democrats in Vermont, so that is what your position is. Do you really want to stick to that position? Do you hate democracy that friggen much?

You are like the Obama Dem equivalent of a birther, at this point?

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. NOOOO that is NOT What I am saying....

clearly you have not read the link....
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/10/politics/bernie-sanders-democrat-or-independent/

By the way....Patrick Leahy....from Vermont...IS a Democrat....how can that be....when a noted DU'er proclaims that you cannot do so in Vermont??

[Agschmid]

61. He may be a self titled Democrat but he sure as hell isn't reigstered to vote in D. Primary.

Cali is right here, you are not.

[JDPriestly]

81. Neither Bernie Sanders nor Patrick Leahy is a registered Democrat

in Vermont.

Here are the rules for registering to vote in Vermont:

Do I have to register as a Democrat, Republican, Independent or some other party in Vermont?
No. There is no party registration in Vermont.

All registered voters can vote in the primary election—but can only vote on one ballot. You will be given a ballot for each of the major parties. You mark one of the ballots and put the remaining unvoted ballots into a discard bin. Which ballot you chose to vote is private and not recorded (except during the presidential primary, where voters must publicly take one ballot or the other, and their choice is recorded on the entrance checklist).

https://www.sec.state.vt.us/elections/frequently-asked-questions/voter-registration.aspx

[MADem]

154. All Sanders (or anyone) has to do is file a "Consent Form" with the petiton forms

(1000 signatures plus a filing fee required to endorse the candidate for election in VT) which state, on the petition forms, what party he's running under, and, on the Consent Form, how he wants his name and PARTY affiliation to appear on the ballot.

This is similar to the process for getting on the ballot in most states. The candidates tell the state election commissioner(s) or Secretaries of State, whoever runs the show, how they want their names to read on the ballot. Joe Blow, Republican, Fred Kadiddlehopper, Green, Bernard Sanders, Democrat.

He WILL have a party affiliation beside his name on the ballot(s).

In the case of Vermont and some other states, it's not about the VOTER's registration, it's about the declared, in-writing, affiliation of the CANDIDATE.

Further, once the candidates have formally declared, they have to file with the FEC and state their party affiliation on those forms as well.


You can look up what I've said--I've provided links in support of this info in the past on this website, if you have trouble finding the material on GOOGLE I can look it up again. It's all very straightforward.

[Ken Burch]

106. Why are you doing this?

You have no justification to question the legitimacy a Bernie Sanders campaign for the Democratic nomination, and no reason to try to stop.

So long as he seems the Dem nomination, it doesn't matter what he calls himself.

And there is no good reason to ridicule the notion of Bernie seeking that nomination.

Only good can come from it.

[djean111]

126. This is just the usual thread-jacking, and y'all are feeding it.

[morningfog]

56. "Goofy" is far too kind.

[smokey nj]

76. Hahahahaha!!!

[Agschmid]

58. Wtf?

[arcane1]

30. The closest I've seen is when he says he caucuses with the Dems.

[Ken Burch]

99. You have no reason to oppose Bernie standing in the Dem primaries.

Or to ridicule the idea.

A Bernie Sanders campaign for the Democratic nomination can't harm anyone or anything.

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. You place Party over policy. For that reason I see you as part of the problem.

[Katashi_itto]

123. How was the vacation?

[MaggieD]

3. He runs as an independent

He needs to run as a democrat as far as I am concerned or he is as dead to me as a republican. No more spoilers.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. Funny....according to this link...

Patrick Leahy is a Democrat from Vermont..

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/VT

[cali]

18. pat is not a registered Democrat either

He has always run within the democratic party, but he cannot register as a democrat either, obviously

[cali]

15. how many times do you need to be told. He is not running as an independent

He is running in this democratic primary. That has been reported far and wide. His political consultant has said it. And Bernie has said bluntly and repeatedly that he will not run as a spoiler.

So cut it out. This little game you're playing is icky. Clearly you are ridiculously threatened. That doesn't make it ok to keep making shit up or try to bully people to support your candidate.

[MaggieD]

20. I will take his word for it, not yours

Here is what he said:

"I am getting balder and balder trying to figure these things out," he said at an event in Washington, D.C. on Monday where he acknowledged -- as he has before -- that he would not run outside the Democratic party establishment.

Whether he would change his party affiliation is another story.

"That is a decision I would have to make," he has said.

You don't believe him that he is undecided on that? I hope he runs as a democratic candidate.

[cali]

25. first of all, it's bad form not to use links. secondly, huge fail. here

http://digital.vpr.net/post/bernie-sanders-announce-presidential-run

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-bernie-sanders-to-launch-presidential-bid-on-thursday/2015/04/28/2b2802b8-edf0-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9_story.html


He is running in the democratic primary. Period. He has said he will not be a spoiler

Even the article you post makes this clear.

Shame on you for trying to spread misinformation

[MaggieD]

27. Google it - he said it

And it's posted in Will Pitts thread announcing the leak that he is running. Oh hell, I fetched it for you from the other thread:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/10/politics/bernie-sanders-democrat-or-independent/

Ted Cruz can run in the frigging democratic primary too as a frigging republican. I vote for Democrats.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

37. He will either make it past the Democratic primaries or he won't. No spoiling necessary. nt

[cali]

39. fail once more. your bullshit claim that Ted Cruz can run in the democratic primary

is just insane, utterly false.

I couldn't give a flying rat fuck who you vote for, but deliberately spreading misinformation? Contemptible.


I am done.

[arcane1]

33. "he would not run outside the Democratic party establishment" n/t

[cyberswede]

51. That seems clear to me.

Not sure why some have issues with it. In fact, since some people think he has no chance of winning, I really don't get why some knickers are getting twisted over this.

[Art_from_Ark]

115. I think some people *hope* he has no chance of winning

A lot of people have a lot invested in the Anointed One, and they don't want to see any real competition against her.

[arcane1]

140. I can understand not wanting him to run 3rd party, but that should be settled now.

[mopinko]

74. this is about the dumbest thing i have seen on du yet.

and that is saying something.
sheesh.
get some sleep. take a pill.

[MaggieD]

78. Thanks for your input

I will give it all the consideration it deserves. Meanwhile you should bone up on democratic party rules.

[eloydude]

147. Which I don't think you've read.

Bernie will be campaigning as a Democrat. What part of that do you have a problem with?

Oh that's right, he's a left-leaning Democrat that you have a problem with....

[MaggieD]

148. What does "campaigning as a Democrat" mean?

So far he has not changed his affiliation from (I) to (D). So he is not "campaigning as a Democrat" yet. I hope he does. I will donate to him as soon as he does. I'm also a big supporter of Kshama Sawant, the socialist city council member here in Seattle. She has really shaken things up, and it thrills me!

As for me, I want the most liberal candidate that can get elected in the general. Same thing I want in every presidential election. It should be noted, I said long ago (2007) that HRC was more liberal than Obama. And more liberal by far than Bill, for what that is worth. And she is. Always has been, in fact. Some of you need to brush up on your political history.

That said, if I thought Bernie could win I would be thrilled. He is obviously more liberal than HRC. But I just don't think a 73 year old socialist can win in the general.

[eloydude]

149. How many times has people already told you - Vermont does NOT have party registration

And Bernie will have to declare anyway in order to follow state laws in terms of getting on the ballot.

[dflprincess]

5. There is no party registration in Minnesota either so I am not a "registered Democrat"

and I call my self a DFLer.

[Bluenorthwest]

139. That Al Franken, he's also one of those 'Democratic Farm Labor' people. How dare he?

I really like the name of your State Party and the history behind it which is reflected in the progressive nature of your great State!

[dflprincess]

142. Thank you!

Just a slight correction it's Democratic Farmer Labor (note the -er on farm)

It does have a great history though in recent years there are those of us who like to say that the biggest mistake the Farmer-Labor party ever made was letting the Democrats in.


Every now and then the state party makes some noise about dropping the Farmer Labor part - but it has always turned out to be an unpopular suggestion.

[KMOD]

6. Bernie perhaps can't vote as a Democrat in Vermont

But he can qualify for state presidential ballots as a Democrat?

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. He can.....but he can do it as an Independent as well....

which means he is still not a Democrat...

[KMOD]

14. Won't he be on the ballot as a Democrat?

I mean, this seems kind of nitpicky. He certainly is not a republican.

[morningfog]

19. He will be on the Democratic ballot as a Democrat running against Democrat Hillary Clinton

and other Democrats who have yet to announce.

[KMOD]

40. Yeah, that's what I thought.

[earthside]

69. When Sanders or a staffer fill out the form ...

... and pays the fee or submits the petition or whatever in states with primaries or caucuses, the box will be checked 'Democrat'.

This isn't tough to figure out.

[cali]

16. He can't be a registered Democrat.

[KMOD]

43. I get that.

But can't he register to be on the presidential ballot as a Democrat?

PS I didn't know about Vermont voting rules. That is interesting. In NY, if you are not a registered R or Democrat, you can't vote in the primaries. That's one of the main reasons for registering for a party in my state.

[think]

13. Some people care if he's "bona fide" Dem. Others care that Bernie didn't vote for a bogus war

But hey. Who cares about wars based on lies when there are semantics to play games with over what makes one a TRUE Democrat....

[smokey nj]

21. What I find hilarious is "HE'S NOT A DEMOCRAT!1!111!" is the worst thing they can say about Bernie

Sanders. There's one member here who keeps posting that Bernie is in bed with lobbyists because he may or may not have attended a DSCC fundraising event 5 years ago.

[Orsino]

136. Yes. It is the worst thing, and that's awesome.

But does one really become a Democratic candidate for president simply by saying so? What does he think is so wrong with the Dem platform that he is only willing to slouch into it? Isn't he supposed to unveil some sort of private "evolution" to justify his joining the party? This seems a small flip-flop, but doesn't he need to pretend that party affiliation matters?

I think it's great that he is unwilling to be a spoiler, and it may be a great thing if he IS foregoing all party ring-kissing. Would like to hear him say so.

And I would love to elect him president.

[MaggieD]

22. There is good reason to care

See Lieberman and Nader as people who said one thing and did another when it came to running for office.

He needs to declare as a Democrat to get my vote, and by the way, party support in many other states that take party affiliation seriously.

[think]

23. Ya. that "D" meant a whole lot to Lieberman. Didn't it......

[MaggieD]

24. It sure didn't, and that is the point

Actions speak louder than words. If Bernie wants to run for the Democratic nomination he needs to be a Democrat. I welcome him into the fold with open arms.

[morningfog]

26. Sen. Sanders' actions are consistently more liberal and more Democratic than any Senator

in recent history.

What actions has he taken that are antithetical to liberal and Democratic ideals?

[MaggieD]

32. Fabulous - love liberals

Liberal DEMOCRATS.

See the thing about governing is that you have to affiliate with a party to get things done, and to get campaign cash to win, and to get party machines in states behind you, and, and, and. If he can't take the step to run AS A DEMOCRAT I can't support him. He needs to commit, IMO.

Hopefully he will.

[morningfog]

35. He has always caucaused with the Dems, he will be running as a Democrat.

This is quite simple and clear. He will run as a Democrat.

[immoderate]

54. The last two who won as Democrats, -- governed as Reaganites.

Hillary is in the same mold.

Bernie is running in Democratic primaries for the Democratic nomination. If he wins, he is the Democratic candidate, no way around that. What's your problem?

--imm

[MaggieD]

85. Sounds like you don't like Democrats much

I suppose you could go start Independent Underground (or does that already exist?). Maybe Socialist Underground?

I've been reading here and posting since 2001. I have learned that the purists don't really care for Democrats all that much. Makes me wonder why purists post here.

[TheKentuckian]

107. Purist left? Ridiculous, the communist levels are probably dangerously low for ideological

yin and yang to represent and balance the actual political spectrum considering how batshit regressive the "governing" right is in this country.

From the perspective of someone very conservative but secular I guess Saint Ronnie of Ray Guns is your idea of center but the problem is your conservative and narrow spectrum not anyone else's.

If you have policy differences and disagreements then why not discuss those ever rather than endless going around arguing belligerently about fucking nothing?

How are you put out in the coalition? What is it that you are having to eat some shit on? What goals and hopes are you having to sacrifice for the team? What ride are you be taken on that you want no part of going on?

[MaggieD]

109. You don't seem to like democrats much either

Seems to be a lot of folks here that loathe Democrats. There are a crap ton of people here who do nothing but bash Democrats all day long. Are they expecting a high five from actual Democrats when they do that? And more importantly, why do people who loathe Democrats so much post here?

[TheKentuckian]

125. If you aren't going to respond to my post why reply to it? I've been Democrat since I was 17 and am

a regular participant in election efforts in my community and have consistently voted Democratic and never miss an election and am on all kinds of donation lists so like or not I do more than most who you don't berate.

[immoderate]

108. You got it. I'm a democrat, not a Democrat.

Never quite reconciled with the Democrats over the Vietnam War, the MIC, and a lot of broken promises. They had to be dragged into civil rights, women's rights, they privatize prisons and education, and they're laggards on drug policy. Democrats can live with a plutocracy; democrats, not so much.

Maybe you should consider what it means to be underground. Why don't you post at the Democratic Regulars, or the Democratic Conformist Establishment?

Purist, huh? (My climate denier friends love calling me an "alarmist.&quot You sure know how to hurt a guy.

On edit: I always vote for Democrats. Always have. It's the pragmatic thing to do.

--imm

[MaggieD]

110. Why are you a democrat if you think so poorly of Democrats?

[immoderate]

112. I think that democracy, or as close to it as is achievable,

is the best way to govern a civilization, and the most likely to avoid revolution. When the people participate, they will find less to complain about.

Our system of government, as any, is prone to decadence and corruption. Our system as it stands, is unsustainable. Changes will be unavoidable, and I think people, rather than special interests, or corporations, should decide what they should be.

--imm

[G_j]

80. he will :)

not to worry

[think]

28. You mean like whether to vote to take America to war based on lies?

Yes. Actions are extremely important....

[cali]

31. fail. again. He is running in the democratic primary, opposing Hillary's

[cali]

29. bwahaha. stop spreadin the shifty false claim that he might run as a spoiler

[MaggieD]

36. Nothing shifty about it

Nader made me cynical. He also said he wouldn't run as a spoiler, yet he did. It's not too much to ask Bernie to declare as a democrat. He shouldn't be running in the democratic presidential primary if he is not willing to do that. He can run as an independent on his own.

[Dragonfli]

44. Yes shifty, quite transparent as well, you realize everyone can see that don't you? /nt

[MaggieD]

48. I couldn't care less, frankly

I am very familiar with how the purists work here. I have been around since 2001. Nothing new under the sun at DU.

[Dragonfli]

55. Purist huh? I must have hit a nerve to inspire ad hominem as your first and only reaction. /nt

[MaggieD]

59. I don't know you from Adam

I was addressing the collective you were referring to in your post.

[Rex]

114. Yep they seem to want to stir the pot.

The 'purist' label they want to throw out there to sow discord on DU...imagine that.

[smokey nj]

49. Nader ran as an Independent and a Green without ever

having sought the Democratic nomination. Lieberman ran as an Independent after having lost the Democratic nomination. Bernie Sanders isn't doing either of those things. Find something else to attack him with because this one isn't going to fly.

[MaggieD]

52. Yet they both said one thing and did another, right?

Lieberman lost in the primary and changed to independent so he could still run, and Nader said he would not run as a spoiler and then turned around and did just that, in swing states no less.

The point is Bernie could run in the democratic presidential primary, suck up lots of dem money, then turn right around and run as an independent once he loses the primary.

He needs to change his party affiliation and declare as a democrat. Party machines aren't stupid. They will not help him if he refuses to take that step. And they shouldn't. If he wants the party to commit to him in any way he needs to commit to the party. IMO.

[smokey nj]

57. Just go away. The fact of the matter is there isn't anything Bernie

could do to win your support and that's fine, but stop bullshitting that the only thing standing between him and your vote is the a D after his name.

[MaggieD]

62. Not going away

And your post is untrue. I am a democrat. If Bernie is a democrat I will happily support him if he wins the nomination. Not even a question about that.

By the way, this is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, not Independent Underground. The purpose of the site is to support Democratic candidates. I look forward to Bernie becoming one very soon.

[smokey nj]

65. Yeah, I believe you.

[cali]

66. couldn't be more transparent

[smokey nj]

70. Seriously

[cali]

64. Shame on you

You know nothing about him. I do. He's my Senator. Unlike, your preferred candidate, he's a person of his word.

And I'm thrilled it's throwing you into such a panic that he's challengin Hillary. He won't cut her any slack on her corporate supporting past or her wavering positions. His record on everything from the environment to labor is better than her's.


Good job revealing yourself and your agenda

[MaggieD]

77. LOL - I know lots about him

I live and breath politics. I have been a liberal activist for 30 years (not just a keyboard commando like some people here). I am a Democrat. I have help elect liberals for years. I helped pass GLBT anti-discrimination bills in my state. I was on the national board of a very liberal policy advocacy organization.

I am on a first name basis with my congresswoman. I have sat in policy meetings with the last two Democratic governors of my state. I have met many past Democratic presidential candidates and had policy discussions face to face with both my senators and feel quite sure I will get a response when I send an email to their staffs. I am a very reliable democratic donor (and I am blessed to have the means to do so).

My agenda is strictly this - that we nominate the most electable DEMOCRAT we can. That is the entirety of my agenda. Always has been, always will be. Period. Full stop.

So much for your assumptions.

By the way, this is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, not Independent Underground.

[cali]

83. yeah, sure you do. not. you've clearly demonstrated to all here how little you know

And not just regarding Bernie.

You aren't fooling anybody.

[MaggieD]

86. Wow, that was a stunning comeback

Man, you showed me! LOL!

[LordGlenconner]

153. +1

Never be afraid to stand up to bullies. Even the keyboard warrior kind.

[TheKentuckian]

88. Stupid point, Lieberman "took that step" and jumped off and ran in his Lieberman for Lieberman party

Anybody can do it anytime. I'm not implying she would but nothing would be stopping Clinton from doing just that too. It is idol speculation and muck raking just to to be doing it with no actual point other than sewing fear, uncertainty, and doubt .

[MaggieD]

91. Yeah, that's exactly what the Naderites said

I mean almost EXACTLY! LOL!

Look, it's not asking too much to require Bernie to declare as a democrat instead of an independent if he wants to run in the DEMOCRATIC primary. It's pretty fucking simple, actually. Hope he will do that. He is not going to win, but I would welcome him shifting the debate to the left within the party.

[TheKentuckian]

124. Lieberman jumped off "that step" after 2000, in 2000 he was the nominee for VP so

I don't see how "the Naderites" would have said the exact same thing, the assertion requires the use of some funky wormhole or a helping hand from HG Wells so I'm gonna go with you just made that shit up.

[cyberswede]

53. That shit Lieberman pulled after Lamont won the primary was despicable.

He's a horrible person.

[smokey nj]

60. What's even more despicable is the lack luster

support Lamont received from the party after he won the nomination.

[cyberswede]

72. That's true. Fucking insiders club. :(

[Jim Lane]

116. Can you back up your repeated claim about Nader going against what he'd said?

Nader ran in a couple Democratic primaries in 1992 but it wasn't a serious candidacy. It was in 1996 that he began running in the general election. I've read a fair amount about Nader, and participated in multiple flame wars here on the subject, but I never heard anything about him saying he wouldn't run in the general and then doing so.

He may have said something along the lines of "he wouldn't run as a spoiler," but only in contending that there was nothing to spoil -- that the duopoloy of the two major parties wasn't based on fundamental differences. That was a ridiculous position. After the debacle of 2000, it was seen to be ridiculous by most of his supporters, who abandoned him in 2004 (too late, alas). Still, I don't remember his ever saying "Oh, I'd never run as an independent or Green or the like in the November election, accomplishing nothing except taking votes from the Democrat" -- and then doing it. That is in fact what he did but I don't think he gave any assurance of not running and then reneged on it.

As to the subject of this thread, I agree with all those who've noted that Bernie Sanders is extremely unlikely to run in the general election if he doesn't get the Democratic nomination. He may or may not endorse the Democratic nominee but he won't be a spoiler.

[MaggieD]

117. Can and have

Here's a historical reminder for you: https://prospect.org/article/books-review-1

[Jim Lane]

118. An interesting article, but it provides zero support for your assertion.

The clear implication of your posts in this thread is that Nader said he wouldn't run in the general election (in some year or years) and then did so. Nothing in the article comes close to saying that.

It does recount Nader arguing that he wouldn't be a spoiler, in two ways -- first, that Gore would beat Bush (by 20 points!) despite Nader's draining off some votes that would otherwise have gone to Gore, and second, the one I anticipated, that there was nothing to spoil because there was no significant difference between the "Tweedledee and Tweedledum" parties. The first point was a prediction that was ludicrous when he made it and was of course shown to be far off the mark. The second point was a matter of opinion, not susceptible of objective refutation but rejected by (IMO) everyone with a lick of sense.

Nevertheless, although these two Naderite arguments were garbage, neither of them amounted to Nader reneging on a stated intention not to run in the general election.

The article doesn't prove (or even assert) such perfidy on Nader's part, but it's definitely worth reading as an excellent takedown of his whole candidacy and its horrific effects.

[MaggieD]

119. It pretty much nails down every fact Naderites refuse to admit

And it uses Nader's own bullshit words to do it.

[Jim Lane]

120. It nails down every fact except the one you actually asserted.

I praised the article because it does indeed do a good job of refuting Naderite bullshit. Even without seeing that article, I've used some of the same arguments here, in the course of my being intensely critical of Nader.

Still, Nader's calamitous mistake of 2000 doesn't make him a free-fire zone for any accusation that anyone dreams up, without regard to the facts. He wasn't waiting outside the Watergate complex, driving the burglars' getaway car. He didn't sell steroids to any professional athletes. And, leaving my ridiculous examples and turning to the accusation you actually made, he didn't promise (or even imply) that he would refrain from running in the general election, and then go back on what he'd said.

[eridani]

46. Same in WA State. Yet we have plenty of politicians who belong to the Democratic Party

True, there are those who say they are members, and those who actually belong to local Dem organizations.

[Bjorn Against]

63. Cali are you still supporting O'Malley or are you switching to Bernie?

I remember a couple of weeks ago you declared your support for O'Malley have you reconsidered that position now that Bernie is jumping in?

I decided today that I will be supporting Bernie and I was just curious as to whether your posts about his campaign indicate support.

[cali]

73. I'm definitely switching

I called that one wrong. I didn't think Bernie would actually run. I'm delighted that he is

[Bjorn Against]

82. Good to hear

I know Bernie has a huge uphill battle, but the good thing is that he has a lot of passionate supporters and I think he will be Hillary's primary contender. I originally thought that O'Malley would be her primary contender but I suspect the Baltimore situation is going to really hurt his candidacy. Even if he is not directly involved with the current situation there was a lot of history leading up to this that he was involved in and that will be held up to scrutiny.

It was a really good time for Bernie to step in because Hillary seriously needs a strong challenger and Bernie provides that.

[hootinholler]

121. Sanders-O'Malley

That would be a great ticket

[leftofcool]

127. Do you support Bernie's alliance with Bibi?

Do you support his backing of Israel 100% of the time right or wrong?

[cali]

134. He refused to attend nutty's speech to congress

He's no more pro Israel right or wrong than Hillary. That, alas, is what it is. No, i don't support him on his position on Israel.

Do you support Hillary's Israel right or wrong stance?

Two can play at your silly, transparent little game

[mopinko]

68. no registered dems in illinois, either.

when you vote in a primary, you ask for a ballot, and you can have whichever one you want. the next primary you can take the other party's ballot.

so, i guess that mean obama isnt a "registered democrat" either.

this discussion makes it seem like we are talking about canned hams or something. oh, but it isnt really a polish ham.
wtf is wrong with people?

[Ms. Toad]

89. Works the same way in Ohio.

If the party workers in the precinct think you are asking for their party's ballot for nefarious reasons, they can challenge you. Otherwise, you just ask for whichever party ballot you want when you go to the polls. I was in the Democratic "war room" for our county during the last presidential election. I've never been a registered democrat in my life - and no one asked for my credentials (although they can confirm which party's ballot I requested as far back as they have records.

I think it is probably more common than people think.

[mopinko]

132. i was on the board of my local democratic party. they didnt give me a card

or register me in any way.

[Ms. Toad]

133. Yeah,

People say things like, "I've been a card-carrying Democrat since I turned 18" or "I'm a registered Democrat." My reaction is always to laugh a little since - at least in Ohio - there's no way either statement could be true.

[Ken Burch]

71. So...does that mean Dr. Dean wasn't a registered Dem when he ran for our presidential nomination?

And that Pat Leahy never has been, even though he's been a Dem senator since the Bronze Age(Which is a compliment, btw)?

Woooaahhhhhh...

[cali]

75. sure, but both Pat and Dean are members of the Vermont dems party

Bernie is not , though the stAte party has long officially supported him in his campaigns

[MaggieD]

87. Stop trying to talk sense

... it clearly annoys people.

[Old and In the Way]

84. ha

Love Berniw but he wont be. POTUS. NOT happening

[MaggieD]

90. Ditto

Love him too, but no, he is not going to be president. On the plus side, he should shift the democratic party debate to the left, and that is a good thing.

[Agschmid]

93. Classy.

[LittleBlue]

94. Is this the Third Way brigade's best effort against Bernie?

You see he's not a Democrat. He's progressive and *whispers* a socialist!

Regardless of his party affiliation, he's more progressive than their candidate. Maybe they hope you won't notice.

[smokey nj]

95. Sure does look that way.

[Agschmid]

97. It doesn't look that way at all...

Did y'all read the OP, do you know the history of this poster?

[smokey nj]

101. Pleas see my response to your post. I don't think ypu

and I took Little Blue's post the same way.

[Agschmid]

105. Agree sorry.

[Agschmid]

96. Pretty sure as a VT resident Cali supports Bernie...

So no, this is not a third way attack.

[smokey nj]

98. I'm not sure the post was directed at cali. I took it as

being aimed at some of the responses.

[Agschmid]

100. Fair enough.

[LittleBlue]

102. I know that

I'm assuming this thread is a defense of Bernie from some asinine claim in another thread about how we shouldn't vote for Bernie over party affiliation technicalities

Some sad Third Wayers would inevitability try this, even though it's blatantly disingenuous

[Agschmid]

104. Ok, good.

Yes there have been some rediculous posts tonight...

[Bluenorthwest]

137. cali is a Vermont resident and supporter of Bernie Sanders, explaining to those outside Vermont

how Party registration works in Vermont.

[backscatter712]

111. I'm in for Bernie!

About time we had a real Democrat in the race.

[aspirant]

113. Which states require

Dem candidates and voters to be registered as dems?

I'm sure Bernie will register as a Dem in those states since Vermont is the only state he has run in.

This is only the beginning because when he registers as a Dem in those required states these same people we call him a flip-flopper and not genuine.

[ileus]

122. I was a registered D when I lived in WV...here in Va there's no such thing.

Kinda sucks, I always was proud of being able to say "I've been a registered Democrat all my life."

[notadmblnd]

128. It's the same here in Michigan, we don't register party affiliation

Honestly though, I was hoping Bernie would run as a republican. Wouldn't that have been a hoot?

[mmonk]

129. Many might not understand because they live in states where you have to register

as a member of one of the two major parties or as Unaffiliated, the exact opposite of Vermont. And then some will understand, but just try to stir the pot.

[Freddie Stubbs]

130. But he was run for office against Democratic nominees numerous times

[Ken Burch]

141. So did your hero, Joe Lieberman.

You never condemned the sitting Dem senators who campaigned for him AGAINST the legitimate Dem nominee.

Or, to my knowledge, condemned the old Southern Dem congressional committee chairs who repeatedly refused to endorse the Democratic ticket after their beloved Jim Crow was shown the door(a violation of party rules that should have cost them their chairmanships)

Or the Dem incumbents who proudly declared themselves "Democrats for Nixon" and "Democrats for Reagan"

Nothing Bernie has done comes close to that.

It's enough that Bernie always caucuses with us.

[Freddie Stubbs]

143. Bernie Sanders actually split the vote in 1988 causing the election of a Republican to Congress

He ran against the Democratic nominee and caused the election of Republican Peter Smith.

[Ken Burch]

144. A seat Bernie took back for OUR side two years later.

And he was able to do that because the Dem nominee that year was totally worthless, most likely. He wouldn't have taken enough such votes if the Dems had actually had a nominee worth supporting.

Bernie is on our side. What happened one time doesn't really matter. He is now a legitimate candidate for the Democratic nomination and, while it's fine for you to oppose him, it's not acceptable to treat him as our enemy.

[Freddie Stubbs]

146. I am on the record agreeing with the proposition that supporting Lieberman after he lost the primary

would make someone a bad Democrat.

You are correct that I have never condemned the old Southern Dem congressional committee chairs who repeatedly refused to endorse the Democratic ticket after their beloved Jim Crow was shown the door. Please forgive me as I am not a time traveler and those events happened prior to my birth.

You are also correct that I have never condemned Dem incumbents who proudly declared themselves "Democrats for Nixon" and "Democrats for Reagan." The former happened prior to my birth and the latter happened while I was a child.

Senators Sanders actually opposed a Democratic nominee and split the vote allowing a Republican to be elected to Congress.

[CTyankee]

131. That was clarified on Morning Joe today...I think it was Mika who stressed it...

Glad this is nipped in the bud right off the bat...all we need is another faux controversy that crowds out a discussion about inequality...

[fadedrose]

135. Didn't know that

What does your ballot look like? Are candidates of all parties on ne ballot?

Ours are a large sheet, parties are separated in columns if you want to vote a straight Dem or Rep ticket with one click, or you can go back and forth from one party to candiates on another party.

[jwirr]

138. So Vermont has open primaries?

[BainsBane]

145. Nor is there in MN

but our Senators still run as Democrats. Party registration is for voters. Politicians run by political party and Sanders chose not to be a Democrat. That doesn't disqualify him, in my opinion, but your excuse is aside from the point.

[onenote]

150. But you can decide which party's nomination to seek

and I don't think Bernie has ever sought to be nominated as or identifed on the ballot as a Democrat before. He's run against (not as) the Democratic Party nominee in the majority of elections he has been in, either as a member of the Liberty Union party or as an independent. In more recent elections, the Democrats haven't been putting up candidates against Bernie, but I still don't think he is identified as the nominee of the Democratic party.

The point of my post is not to criticize Bernie. Just to make it clear that the fact that there is no party registration in Vermont hasn't kept Bernie from running as a Democrat for office in Vermont. He's chosen not to do so. Now he's choosing to run as a Democrat. I don't see that to be a big deal, although it probably hurts him with some number of voters who identify themselves as Democrats whether or not they are "registered" as such.

[HockeyMom]

151. Will he even be allowed to be on a Democratic Party Primary ticket

as Independent? If some states allow it, but not others, how will this ever give him the chance to be the Democratic Presidential Candidate?

I know as a former Independent in NYS I could not VOTE in either primary. I do not see how an Independent candidate can run in a Primary. Presidential election, yes, but that would only take away votes from the Democratic candidate. Do you remember Ross Perot? He took away Republican votes, and Bill Clinton was elected. Reverse could also be true.

Bernie's ONLY chance is to become a Democrat and go through that process.

[Xyzse]

152. You know what...

That is pretty damn cool.

I actually like that a lot.