If Bernie seeks the Democratic nomination, it doesn't MATTER what his voter registration is.

[Ken Burch]

If you oppose Bernie being nominated by our party, fine. You have the right to do that.

But it isn't acceptable or justiable to question the legitimacy of a Sanders campaign for that nomination.

No harm can come to anyone or anything we believe in as Democrats from Bernie's presence in the primaries.

And no good comes of using McCarthyite tactics against him.

Bernie Sanders is not an enemy of the Democratic party. He never has been. All any Democrat has the right to expect of him is that he not go third-party in the fall(which we all know he won't, since the man isn't a blithering idiot).

A Bernie Sanders campaign in the Democratic primaries and caucuses can have only good results for the progressive cause-the cause the Democratic Party is supposed to exist to fight for.

Besides which, if neither Bernie nor Elizabeth Warren were to stand in the primaries, nothing could happen in those months that could energize or excite anyone who wants a progressive future in this country. There could be no real debate(and a nomination campaign without debate couldn't be worth having) and there could be no idealism or passion.

[marym625]

1. He always said he would run as a Democrat if he ran

And he has my support. 100% of it

He is exactly what we need. Strong on social issues. Strong on bank regulations. For the middle class and poor. Against monopolies and the corpocracy. Pro union. Pro women. Pro people

All the right stuff

[smokey nj]

4. Bernie - All the good, none of the bad!

[marym625]

5. exactly!

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

78. And as soon as they put "socialist" next to his name, none of the votes, either

Not none, but you know what I mean.

I was supporting Bernie before some folks knew who he was, so this has nothing to do with my support for him.

But the reason he wont run outside of the party is he knows this...

BTW, I heard he is hiring some former Gore and Kerry people, good news

[smokey nj]

79. Socialist isn't the scary word that it used to be, especially to young people.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

80. We are going in that direction, not there yet by a long shot but you are right

[smokey nj]

84. Well, we'll see. I'm behind Bernie 100%, have been for a long time now, and I'm not willing

to give up before the first primary is even held. Also, I have a sister who was brainwashed by Rush Limbaugh in the 90s. She likes Bernie Sanders a lot and would vote for him, regardless of ideological differences, because he doesn't bullshit her. I doubt she's the only person who feels that way.

[elleng]

2. The OTHERS will use McCarthyite tactics against him

(and against any other Dem who runs.)

[still_one]

12. Except they will have more of a problem using it against Bernie, since Bernie doesn't play political

games, and he doesn't lie

Bernie will not only answer the attacks, but he will explain why they have no merit

[elleng]

19. Yes and if his responses mattered to those the OTHERS appeal to

results could be great, but they DON'T, they won't accept a (Jewish, New York) socialist.

[still_one]

21. well then accepted a non-citizen, who happens to be a Muslim as their president

[Ken Burch]

23. er...you did mean to use the "sarcasm" smilie there, didn't you? n/t.

[1monster]

65. Those wouldn't be voting for Bernie anyway... And probably won't be

voting for Hillary either.

[elleng]

74. Surely won't vote for Bernie.

Hillary? Dunno, some might.

[NYC_SKP]

3. We need to be saved from ourselves if we don't want a Republican to replace our president.

We've put all our eggs in a questionable basket and I dread the idea of a President Walker or Bush.

I am delighted that Sanders is going to announce and I look forward to more fine candidates entering the race.

But not to push the frontrunner to the left, that can't be done in any lasting way, the frontrunner is what they are.

No, we need candidate so that we can see the possibilities that exist if we ask for more, if we don't settle for less.

We need a real champion, someone to fight for us, and who can pull votes from the Republican and Independent demographic.

Go Bernie!

[blue neen]

6. Will he be a registered Democrat?

There are states like PA where Independents aren't in the primaries. Also, only registered Democrats and Republicans can vote in the primaries. So, I'm thinking it does matter how is registered.

I could be a little fuzzy on these laws, so if this is incorrect, please tell me the correct law.

I'm happy to see him enter the race.

[cyberswede]

8. If one seeks the Democratic nomination, they're running as a Democrat.

If one seeks the Republiban nomination, they're running as a Republican.

If one runs as a Independent, they're not seeking either party nomination.

Seems simple enough to me.

[blue neen]

11. If he is currently registered as an Independent,

then he would have to actually change his registration to Democrat.

You can't just say you're "running" as anything. You have to state on your registration your choice of party, at least in the state of PA.

"Running" and "Party Registration" are two different matters.

[cyberswede]

13. Except VT has no party registration. nt

[blue neen]

18. As you can see by the post below,

I'm getting two different answers on this.

[MADem]

160. For VOTERS...but federal CANDIDATES have to identify their party affiliation with the FEC.

They do this on a Candidacy form where they identify what party they belong to, and what agencies are collecting money for them.

[cyberswede]

171. And presumably that's what he'll do, when he runs for the Democratic nomination.

[MADem]

172. And he'll also most likely identify as a Democrat to the Vermont Secretary of State

after he collects all the signatures he needs to be placed on the ballot there.

The form requires that he identify his party affiliation to the people who sign the petition.

[still_one]

14. and that is exactly what he is going to do, register as a Democrat. It isn't difficult at all. You

can even do it by mail

[blue neen]

17. Thanks.

Another poster has stated something else, so this is a bit confusing.

[JDPriestly]

38. Vermont does not register people as belonging to one party or another.

In the primary, each voter is given two ballots and no one knows which ballot the voter votes. That's what I read on Google. You can check it out. Most of the senators from Vermont in the 20th century prior to Bernie ran as Republicans and won as Republicans. Even in the 1930s, Republicans won the Senate in Vermont.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Senators_from_Vermont

Bernie ran as an independent and social democrat.

[still_one]

64. You are correct. Registration in Vermont does not ask you which party you belong to. Thanks

Last edited Wed Apr 29, 2015, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.sec.state.vt.us/elections/frequently-asked-questions/voter-registration.aspx

However, they have both Democrats and republicans in public office in Vermont. The most obvious example is Senator Patrick Leahy who is a Democrat.

So you as you pointed out which I appreciate, that Vermont does not have party registration, whatever Bernie calls himself is what he is.

He will be running as a Democrat. He is NOT going to say he is running as an Independent, but that he is running as a Democrat, and therefore will be allowed on the primary ballots in the states as Democrat.

That is how I read it anyway

[JDPriestly]

82. When I look at the list of senators from Vermont, the history of

mostly Republican senators, I see Bernie Sanders as very shrewd, very smart to have run as an Independent.

He is a very intelligent man, in his political understanding, I think he is way beyond what we are used to seeing in candidates for office. This is going to be one very interesting race.

[still_one]

88. I agree

[MADem]

161. When people run for federal office (rep/senate/POTUS) they have to identify their party affiliation

with the Federal Election Commission, in writing.

He will have fifteen days to do this after he announces. He will put it in writing, and he will identify where funds for his campaign are to be sent.

This is cut and dried. It's called Form 2 and it is a Candidacy Declaration form.

When Sanders ran for the Senate, he entered, in his own handwriting, the letter "I" in the block where it asked what his party was.

[still_one]

165. Thanks, I have no doubt he will do that then

[still_one]

7. If Bernie seeks the Democratic nomination, it is because he is registering as a Democrat. Therefore

all practical purposes he is a Democrat. It does NOT matter what he was before, people are allowed to change a political party. Lincoln Chafee is doing it, Arlene Spector did it.

In other words, he is running as a Democrat because he has registered as a Democrat, it is as simple as that


This is how they are reporting it:

http://nypost.com/2015/04/28/bernie-sanders-to-run-for-president-as-democrat/

"Sanders will become the second major Democrat in the race, joining former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton."

[smokey nj]

9. The dude from Florida, whose name escapes me at

the moment, bounced back and forth between parties like a freakin' ping pong ball.

[still_one]

15. It happens

[tblue37]

151. Charlie Crist? nt

[smokey nj]

153. That's the one! Thanks!

I could not for the life of me remember his name!

[Ed Suspicious]

26. He's not registering as anything. Party registration is a state precept. His state doesn't have

party registration. He's running as a democrat in the democratic party primary.

[MADem]

162. He IS registering as something, on his Federal Election Commission candidacy form.

It doesn't matter what the "state" has to say--he's not running for "President of Vermont."

He's got to deal with federal election regulations. They want a party affiliation (this is why Dean and Leahy are known as Democrats--because they abided by federal election rules).

Form 2 will tell us what he is, when he files it. The last form 2 he filed, for his Senate run, he listed himself as an INDEPENDENT.

[Ed Suspicious]

167. I stand corrected.

[Lil Missy]

10. Oh yes it does MATTER.

He said himself that he won't run as a SPOILER. He said he would run as a DEMOCRAT.

I do think he would add some value to the primary process. I'll still caucus for HRC but I'm delighted to see Bernie jump in.

[still_one]

16. Not only that, it will focus Hillary on exactly where she stands on the issues

[Lil Missy]

20. Right!!!!

[Ikonoklast]

150. You said it.

Hillary is definitely to the right...as the party base moves left.

[MaggieD]

22. It matters to the party

... And it definitely matters to me.

[Ken Burch]

24. It has no possible negative consequences for the party or you.

It's not like we'd be better off with a bland, passion-free primary season.

[MaggieD]

25. He's not going to get party money or party machine support....

Unless he enters the race as a Democrat. That's the way it works. As it should.

[Ken Burch]

27. If he's running in the Democratic primaries, he effectively IS a Democrat.

No need for hairsplitting.

[MaggieD]

28. Nope - that's not how it works

If it did Ted Cruz could enter the democratic primary.

[Ken Burch]

39. Not the same-it's different being a registered member of the other major party.

And it's already clear why you're using McCarthyite tactics like your anti-Bernie whispering campaign and your revival the "the left and the GOP are conspiring against Democrats" smear.

Basically, your agenda is to make sure the primaries are a passion- and ideal-free zone, as they would be without Bernie.
You want another bland, mundane coronation like we had in 1996, 2000, and 2004-years when this party was a dead zone, years when there was nothing in our party's message that anyone actually cared about-just seeking "vicgtory" fpr "victory"'s
sake-exactly the kinds of campaign that drove progressives to third-party campaigns out of utter hopelessness-years when the party represented no one but the CEO's in the luxury boxes at the convention hall.

People who support the left wing of the Democratic Party want this party to be a living center of activism for real change-a party that talks about what really matters, that admits that this country has a class system and an unchecked war machine that all people of good will must resist and work to replace with something better.

People that back your wing of the party want it to be nothing more than a mundane party of the status quo that accept the whole basic set-up without question and call for nothing but tiny, meaningless unnoticeable increments of cosmetic change.

Without massive corporate donations, your wing of the party would soon vanish and we'd have a fighting, passionate, unapologetic and strong party, a party with a consistently winning record in elections, a party that actually dared to set the terms of the debate once elected, because we would finally be a party that stood with the vast majority of people in this country who are left out by "market values", austerity budgeting and perpetual military intervention 'round the globe.

[MaggieD]

43. Oh brother

Saying Bernie needs to declare as a democrat if he wants Democratic Party support is a "Mccarthyite tactic" and further it unveils some nefarious "agenda" on my part? Are you really fucking serious?

Okay, now I've heard it all. I'm not sure how your crowd can possibly get more ridiclous at this point.

And "my wing of the party"???? I'm a DEMOCRAT. I'm not in a "wing" of anything. Your guy, so far, is NOT a DEMOCRAT. I hope he deigns to declare as one. As I've said like 300 times now, I will warmly embrace him if he runs as a Democrat. Like I will every actual DEMOCRAT who is running.

Enough with the democrat bashing. Move on.

[Ken Burch]

49. If he runs in our primaries, he puts the registration issue to rest.

There was never a good reason to dwell on it in the first place, in any of his past campaigns.

[MaggieD]

50. You have zero understanding of Democratic Party rules, clearly

[Ken Burch]

52. He's running in our primaries. That ends the issue you're pointlessly dwelling on

And it proves that Bernie isn't Nader.

[MaggieD]

53. No, it's not

https://uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/DNC_Charter__Bylaws.pdf

[jeff47]

75. Ted Cruz can enter the Democratic primary.

W could enter the Democratic primary, even though he could not take office.
Reagan could enter the Democratic primary, despite being dead.

The rules about who can enter the primary are surprisingly open.

[MaggieD]

85. No they aren't

I posted the DNC bylaws. You might want to take a look at them.

[jeff47]

87. Yes, they really are.

For example, to declare oneself a "Democrat" requires saying "I'm a Democrat". That's it. Lie all you want while doing it.

[MaggieD]

90. That's right - he has to declare as a Democrat

[Jack Rabbit]

29. I believe the issue of his party affiliation varies from state to state

I could be wrong about that, but in any case it would behoove Senator Sanders to simply register as a Democrat. I'm sure he'd do it in a heartbeat. To paraphrase Henry of Navarre, the late 16th/early 17th century King of France, the White House is worth a Mass.

[Ken Burch]

30. Most likely he would.

It's always been weird that, even in his Senate campaigns, so many here have been obsessed with pushing him to formally become a Dem. It sounds like these people think Bernie is a heretic and are determined to make him recant his heresy. Obviously his past campaigns would have meant nothing if he'd always been a Dem-before this, he couldn't have spoken truth to power if he'd done that.

[JDPriestly]

35. Vermont voters do not register with a party.

There may be some informal way to link to the Democratic Party. But it isn't done as it is in other states. I Googled the voter registration procedures for Vermont and learned that.

Senators from Vermont before Bernie, even in the 1930s when the country was mostly Democratic, were Republican. It was always a very conservative state. Of course, now, both parties have shifted to the right on economic issues and certain other issues. Democrats have moved to the left on some social issues, but really we were as a nation further to the left under LBJ and even Nixon than we are today. Health care is another exception, but we aren't really that far to the left even on that issue.

Here is the list of senators from Vermont.

In this century they have been Republicans for the most part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Senators_from_Vermont

[Jack Rabbit]

37. Thank you

In that case, them I suppose what settles the issue is that he caucuses in the Senate with the Democrats.

[Ms. Toad]

91. It's not just Vermont.

There are many states where you do not register to vote with a party including, I believe I heard, Illinois. So - maybe Obama isn't really a Democrat after all...

[MADem]

106. Voters don't, but candidates who want help from the national committees do. nt

[longship]

31. Plus, VT does not fucking have party registration!!!!

There are no fucking parties on the voter registration forms!!

There are no registered party affiliations in Vermont, and several other states!

For Christ sakes. People need to learn some simple facts.

[Rex]

45. That is far beyond a simple fact. I doubt many people know each states election laws lol.

OKAY, if you are in THAT state...then yeah maybe you should bone up on such things. Seriously, half the people interviewed on TV don't know what war won us our freedumbs or who the VP of the United States is.

That is interesting that your state does not require party affiliation.

[longship]

58. I am a resident of Michigan, not Vermont.

I would prefer party registration, but these days I don't know what good it would do. Michigan gave it up, too.

But maligning Bernie because of his:

1. Independence. (Some may mistakenly read that as non-partisanship.)

2. Socialism. (Have you heard FDR's Four Freedoms Speech? updated)

3. And the worst, "unelectable spoiler" (heard here on DU). I will not give that argument any more respect than it deserves, which is nothing.

But here's the main deal. Whoever the Democratic Party nominates for president, they will be far, far greater than anything that the theocratic GOP can put forth. And in case you purist Democrats haven't noticed, all of the fucking GOP candidates spew theocratic rhetoric.

And these idiots already not only have a majority both sides of the US legislators, but they also have a majority of governorships and state legislatures.

That is why I support all Democratic candidates. Because I do not want the USA to turn into Jesusland.

Why does every speech a president makes always have to end with "God bless America?" Then there's the attempt to turn the seventh inning stretch at baseball parks into a church service! Kate Smith and Irving Berlin should be ashamed of themselves for what they did. And Irving was a Jew!

Support who you support. But Bernie is a good progressive, and he will run as a Democrat.

[Rex]

66. Never thought about it before, but you are so right...they do spew theocratic bullshit.

Well whoever wins the primary has my vote...at least we know they won't try and fuck up the world like the GOP will if they get into the WH.

[MaggieD]

47. It has nothing to do with state registration

Last edited Wed Apr 29, 2015, 04:40 AM - Edit history (1)

It's about Democratic Party rules. That's why libertarians, Greens, etc don't get to run in Democrstic party primaries. It is you who needs to learn some simple facts, my friend.

ETA https://uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/DNC_Charter__Bylaws.pdf

[longship]

56. Oh dear. nt

[Ken Burch]

59. He's done all he needs to do.

His candidacy for the Democratic nomination is just as legitimate as HRC's. Issue put to rest.

[MADem]

107. NOT QUITE.....He hasn't filed his FEC paperwork yet.

He'll have to specify his party affiliation when he does that.

http://www.fec.gov/press/resources/2016presidential_form2nm.shtml

As of today's date, he's not yet on that list.

[Ken Burch]

133. You're still acting as if Bernie's presence in our primaries is suspect.

Give it a rest. He has already proved he'll never be Nader.

[MADem]

137. Excuse me? You don't read people very well. You're dead wrong.

Who the hell says shitty things like You're still acting as if Bernie's presence in our primaries is suspect.Give it a rest...he'll never be Nader.
in response to the FACTUAL comments I have posted? Someone looking for a mindless fight, perhaps?

I am not "arguing" about him joining the Democratic party primary process. If he does do it, though, he will do it as a Democrat. Joining a debate, like your friend Nader tried to do, is not the same as getting the imprimatur as a candidate from the Democratic National Committee.

We will know with what party the Senator plans to affiliate when he files his FORM TWO with the FEC. There's no wiggling on that form--he'll either join our team, or not. That's his choice, too--not yours.

If you can't handle that, YOU'RE the one with the "suspect" attitude.

Get over yourself, and stop name-calling and aspersion-casting. It's an ugly look.

[Ken Burch]

142. Nader is not "my friend" and I don't have to prove my party loyalty to you.

We both know Bernie will write what he needs to write on FORM TWO. Just admit there's no uncertainty here. Bernie doesn't need to recant any heresy or answer any questions before HUAC.

[MADem]

148. Ralph's not my friend either. Look--you were unaware of FEC requirements. Because you were

unaware of them, you decided you'd get all snarky and cast rude and uncivil aspersions on me and the information I am providing on this thread, which is designed to ENLIGHTEN people about how we will soon know what party affiliation Senator Sanders will choose.

For someone who clearly didn't know that the FEC form, with its ITEM FOUR requirement, existed (because surely YOU would have volunteered the information instead of running around the thread criticizing people, would you have not? I'm putting a best face on your disruptive approach and assuming it was accidental and not deliberate, mind you) you DON'T know what he will write.

You sure as hell aren't him, and he'll let us know when he files within two weeks time.

Instead of taking the information I provided as what it was, you decided to get shitty and shirty with me. You're the one with the attitude problem here--you might want to consider an adjustment. I won't hold my breath.

[1monster]

67. Since there apparently no party registrations in Vermont, then

it follows that Bernie cannot register as a Democrat in Vermont. It also follows that his party is whatever he says it is.

Ergo, by entering as a Democratic candidate, he is declaring as a Democrat. Why is that such a difficult concept?

(BTW, I think Bernie is more what a Democrat should be than anyone else in the Democratic Party that I can think of.)

[MaggieD]

68. DNC rules require him to declare as a Democrat

.... If he wants to run in the Democratic primary.

[jeff47]

76. Which is accomplished by saying "I want to run in the Democratic primary"

What sort of pinky-swear do you think is required for such a declaration?

[MADem]

149. It's accomplished by filing a form 2 with the FEC and putting "Democratic Party"

in Item 4. No pinky required. He just has to fill out the form and mail/hand deliver/fax it in not more than 15 days after he declared.

[1monster]

77. Keep banging that drum...

Someone posted below the relevant DNC rule regarding who can run in the Democratic Primaries. Even by the narrowest reading, it takes the windout of your argument.

[MaggieD]

86. "Wants to be known as a Democrat"

Seems pretty clear to me.

[MADem]

109. Your interpretation is the correct one. nt

[MADem]

108. No, exact opposite--unless "Democratic candidate" means something different to you.

Also, there's the matter of the FEC Form 2's, where he'll have to declare what his party affiliation is. Can't get around that--if he wants to play under the Democratic tent, he'll have to declare himself a Democrat on that form.

[MADem]

159. You need to study up on what a CANDIDATE needs to do in VT... not a voter.

They file with the FEC if they are running for "national" office (rep/senator/POTUS). They declare their candidacy and party affiliation at that time, on the FEC form.

[KingCharlemagne]

123. Could you explain to me what makes Senator Leahy a Democrat? Is it that

a) Leahy calls himself a 'Democrat' even though he's not registered as D

b) Leahy caucuses with the Democratic Party in the Senate

or c) Some other reason known only to wonky Vermont insiders?

Clearly some mechanism or apparatus exists by which elected officials from Vermont may designate themselves R or D (or I). What exactly is it?

[MADem]

138. His FEC paperwork says "Democratic Party" on it.

Here's your "mechanism" -- I'm amazed at how many people aren't aware of the basic process:

http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?&tabIndex=3&electionYr=2016&candidateCommitteeId=S4VT00017

Name: LEAHY, PATRICK J (I - Incumbent)
Office Sought: S - Senate
Election Year: 2016
State: VT - Vermont, District: 00
Party: Democratic Party

I got called names elsewhere in this thread for pointing out this rather simple mechanism.

[KingCharlemagne]

168. I may have phrased my original question poorly in a rush for time, and I appreciate

your patience with me.

Here's what I really meant to ask:

If candidates in Vermont do not appear on the ballot with party affiliation, at what point do they align themselves with either of the two major parties? Is it when they file FEC paperwork? IOW, does Leahy run as non-partisan on the ballot (even though almost every Vermonter knows he intends to identify himself as a Dem after the election) and only upon election and subsequent submission of his FEC paperwork identify himself as Democratic?

Once again, I feel I may be phrasing my question poorly, so please allow me to say "thanks" in advance for your continued patience. I'm definitely not a wonk and fear I may thus be rushing in where angels fear to tread.

[MADem]

169. I'm not from VT, so I can't speak to state or local elections.

I do understand that VOTERS don't declare a party affiliation. I don't know if the state election officials require candidates to self-identify. I know in local elections in MA, it's not required, but state candidates do identify themselves by party affiliation.

However, candidates for FEDERAL offices (Senate/Representative/POTUS/VPOTUS) have to file a candidacy declaration with the Federal Election Commission BEFORE any election takes place (no matter what state they are from), within fifteen days of their ANNOUNCEMENT that they are running for office--so that would be well before any ballots are even printed. On that form they are required to tell the FEC what their party affiliation is, and who is collecting the money for their campaign. That MONEY piece is a good part of what they're interested in!

Here are some of the FEC filings.

Patrick Leahy (Democratic Party): http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?&tabIndex=3&electionYr=2016&candidateCommitteeId=S4VT00017

Bernie Sanders (Independent): http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?&tabIndex=1&candidateCommitteeId=S4VT00033


Here's a "matching funds" report where a grouping of candidates are identified by their party affiliation:

http://www.fec.gov/press/20031230certification.html

And here's a list of everyone (nearly 300 people!!!!) who have filed a form 2 so far with the FEC to run for President in 2016:

http://www.fec.gov/press/resources/2016presidential_form2nm.shtml

They haven't received Sanders' form yet, but he's got two weeks to get it in. And of course, not all of those people will be on the ballot. It's a long road between declaring candidacy and actually getting on even a primary ballot, never mind the general election one!

[KingCharlemagne]

170. As I suspected, I rushed in where angels fear to tread and am eternally in your debt for that

massively informative post, chock-full of detail and supporting links. I managed to learn more than one new thing tonight. You are definitely a precious resource here, that is definitely without question.

Seems to me from the foregoing that one may rightly question whether Sanders is being an 'opportunist' for running in the Democratic nominating process and one may even question his bona fides as a Democrat (or at least compare them to HRC's), but what one cannot do is question whether Sanders actually is a Democrat, since that designation appears fully dependent on the filing of said FEC document. IOW, once Sanders submits the 'paperwork' declaring himself a Dem, he is for all intents and purposes a Dem. Fascinating stuff and I apologize if I'm regurgitating stuff any simple-minded dolt should have already grasped. Makes me glad I'm not a wonk, though!

[MADem]

173. Happy to help. Here's a bit more information on the process in VT....

And it is very similar in most other states.

It's not just a bit of money and a declaration that gets a person on the ballot. They also have to collect a BUNCHA signatures (that "buncha" varies from state to state) on a petition form asking the state to put the person on the ballot. That form also requires the candidate to declare his party affiliation right at the top of the page--here's a link to that form: https://www.sec.state.vt.us/media/460804/2016-Major-Party-Pres-Primary.pdf


The people signing the form, presumably, read the thing before they sign it, and say to themselves, "Why yes--I can support Bernard Sanders to run for the office of President as a Democrat!" So it's not just him saying "I'm a Dem" it's also the voters saying "I support him as a Dem." He will have to go through this signature gathering process in every state. I read somewhere that he hired some Gore and Kerry people...I imagine that getting out there and gathering signatures to get on the ballots in all the states will be their first order of business for him.


He is being a bit of an "opportunist" in that he's using the might of the Democratic Party machine to his purposes, but OTOH I suppose it's also true that our system is a two party/left-right system. The smaller parties, Green, Reform, Independent, etc. just don't seem to be able to get their shit together and become much of a force. I have theories about this--I think it's because they're too fucking lazy to do the hard work at the local levels, frankly--not ALL of them, but enough of them. If any party--pick one or make one up, say, the ME FIRST PARTY--decided at their convention that they had a goal to put fifteen ME FIRST candidates on the ballot in local elections in every state, and the next year, made that thirty candidates, and the next year, fifty, and so on, eventually a few of those ME FIRST candidates would win. The party would grow, their influence would increase. Instead, too many of these third parties (Reform and Greens, most popularly) put way too much energy and money into Presidential contests. I know in my gut, and from talking to people, that there are plenty of folks who would cheerfully vote for a Green for local office--mayor, state rep, state senate, etc., but by the same token they'd stay home before they'd vote for one for POTUS. They've got to begin at the beginning, and they don't do that. It's why some people do look askance when they try to draft behind the DNC machine and get annoyed when they want to jump on the Democratic debate stage, just because they'd sit on the same side of the aisle on most issues.

[longship]

146. First, several states do not have party choice on voter registration.

What makes one a Democrat is that one votes for candidates of the Democratic Party.

Or something...

Who cares? I think that Dems generally don't like things like purity tests.

[MADem]

140. He's not RUNNING for "fucking" office in Vermont!!!!!!!!!

People DO need to learn some simple facts.

He is running for national office, and he will have to file a candidacy statement with the FEC, where he will reveal his affiliation with a party. Mmmmm-kay?

This will be cleared up in TWO WEEKS. He has two weeks (fifteen days, if you want to nit-pick) to fill out the form after declaring. It will look like THIS form, the one he filled out when he ran for Senate (another "national" office): http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/571/27039520571/27039520571.pdf#navpanes=0


See block 4 at the link? Party Affiliation? What he puts in THAT block is what he's running as....and we'll know when he files. In the next two weeks.

[Suji to Seoul]

32. Bernie is more of a Democrat than most Democrats. No one on this side should rail against him

Open your wallets! We've wanted this for years!

[Ken Burch]

40. Those who mock the idea of Bernie seeking the nomination

want our party to continue standing for as little as possible.

[MADem]

110. Who's "mocking?" The "aggrieved victim" stance doesn't play well.

He's a candidate with something to say. This isn't about "our party" standing for anything. There remains a question as to Sanders' party affiliation, and he will clear that up well within the next two weeks (because that's the timeline for filing a Form 2).

When he files his FEC paperwork, he's going to have to declare his affiliation with a party.

If he wants to participate in debates with SECSTATE Clinton, he's going to have to put "DEMOCRAT" in the appropriate blank. If he wants to take on Ted Cruz, he'll put "Republican." If he wants to rely on the kindness of strangers, like the League of Women Voters or other organizations that sponsor debates and determine who will be "allowed" on the stage, he'll write something else.

This is a stupid thing to fight over. The forms are pretty straightforward. The Democratic Party rules are quite clear, too. They elect Democrats--as identified by the candidates on their FEC Forms.

[JDPriestly]

33. Vermont voters do not register with a party.

They are handed two ballots in the primaries and which ballot they choose to fill out and turn in is their business. The primary is open in the sense that you can vote in the primary of your choice when you get to the polls, but you can only vote one ballot.

Vermont voters pretty much voted for Republican senators until they voted for Bernie Sanders as an Independent. Jeffords was the exception. He switched parties I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Senators_from_Vermont

Bernie Sanders was not registered as a Democrat. But that should not be a problem since Vermont voters do not have to register for a party.

Check it on Google. I am too tired to do it. I looked it up earlier and posted a link earlier.

[MADem]

139. But candidates running for federal office register with the FEC and state a party affiliation.

When Senator Sanders files his form 2 with the FEC, we'll know what he wants to call himself. He has not yet filed; he has fifteen days after declaring he wants to run to file.

Patrick Leahy (who, FWIW, is a DEMOCRATIC Senator from Vermont), Howard Dean and other candidates for federal office (the Senate or the Presidency) all had to state what party they were associating with in conjunction with their decision to run.

When Sen. Sanders ran for the Senate, he associated with the INDEPENDENT Party: http://www.fec.gov/fecviewer/CandidateCommitteeDetail.do?&tabIndex=1&candidateCommitteeId=S4VT00033

When he files his Presidential form 2 (Statement of Candidacy) he will tell us what party he wants to affiliate with.

[byronius]

34. Everyone on this board should hope he does.

He's a good guy. It could only help.

I'm not sure if I'd vote for him; I'm not ready to make that choice yet.

But he's an awesome human being. Dems should welcome him.

[blkmusclmachine]

36. Obama was a Reagan Republican.

[SidDithers]

70. You wean Warren, don't you?...nt

Sid

[G_j]

41. All the way with Bernie, WE have to make it happen

It's up to us.

[ucrdem]

42. Maybe not in VT, but how about Iowa, NY and Texas?

Those are big states and he's going to need to have his ducks in a row if he's actually planning on running campaigns there because they all have primaries before Vermont's:

[MaggieD]

44. The party machine won't support him anywhere except Vermont

... If he doesn't declare as a Democrat. If he doesn't do that it will be hard to take his campaign seriously.

[ucrdem]

46. Agree .. Vermont's primary is in March, and Iowa's caucus is in January.

NY's primary is in early Feb. I don't see how he makes it to Vermont.

[MaggieD]

48. Good point

But what I'm saying is that it really doesn't have anything to do with state party registration. The Democratic Party has rules. And one of them is that you have to be a Democrat to run in a Democratic primary. He's going no where without that. He's going to find major obstacles in his path that will be near impossible to overcome if he doesn't declare as a Democrat.

[ucrdem]

51. Yep. He'll need the say-so of the state chairs at least.

The state election offices have their own hoops too and they're nothing to sneeze at. Fees, signatures, affidavits, early deadlines, and that's just to get on the ballot.

One scenario that's occurred to me is this: Hillary without ANY competition would mean no debates, primaries, or convention drama to speak of, so it's possible that Bernie has been designated the officially sanctioned competition, and a way will be made to get him on the ballot of a few early states.

[MaggieD]

54. Not to mention the DNC bylaws

https://uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/DNC_Charter__Bylaws.pdf

[ucrdem]

55. Aricle 8, Section 1:

" The Democratic Party of the United States shall be open to all who desire to support the
Party and who wish to be known as Democrats."

That's going to take a lot of top-level skid-greasing to get around. If that's the case, I have to wonder if this is an advisable strategy. Personally I'd rather Hillary saved her pennies and political capital for the general.

[MaggieD]

69. Those are the rules

Yep.

[Ken Burch]

57. An announcement of candidacy in the Democratic primaries equates to such a declaration.

Now please stop belaboring this. It's right-wing to keep going on about a moot point.

[MaggieD]

73. Where do you get that from?

That's not what the DNC bylaws say. Sorry, you're just wrong on that.

[morningfog]

99. You are wrong. He only has to declare he is running a Democrat.

[MaggieD]

101. That's exactly what I said

So what am I wrong about?

[morningfog]

103. You are wrong in that you said a declaration by him announcing his candidacy

for the nomination of the Democratic Party does not fit the bill. It does and it will.

[MaggieD]

111. Link?

I never said anything beyond that he had to declare as a Democrat. I don't know why Sanders supporters are so nasty and argumentative. I hope you don't think you are helping your cause with that kind of attitude.

[morningfog]

115. Here:

Post 57: An announcement of candidacy in the Democratic primaries equates to such a declaration.

Your response:

MaggieD (905 posts)
73. Where do you get that from?

That's not what the DNC bylaws say. Sorry, you're just wrong on that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6588391

[MaggieD]

121. That's because the statement I was replying to is false

"announcement of candidacy in the Democratic primaries equates to such a declaration" - no, that is NOT how it works.

The Democratic primary process is open to people who "want to be known as a Democrat." That's what the by-laws say and they are not complicated. Right now he is known as an Independent. I'm sorry you don't understand that.

[morningfog]

124. LOL. Round and round you go. This will all be moot tomorrow.

[MaggieD]

128. Yes, hopefully

[Ken Burch]

156. So you admit you had no reason to jack the thread and that there was no issue here.

Good.

[MaggieD]

157. You mean correct your OP?

Dude, you were wrong. You've been proven wrong. Can you just deal with that? Happens to the best of us. Just move on from it.

[AgingAmerican]

163. Those flogging this long dead horse

Are embarrassing themselves.

[Ken Burch]

136. And that is what seeking the Democratic presidential nomination means.

It doesn't matter whether he SAYS he's a Dem or not.

[displacedtexan]

166. And if he runs as a Dem, his Independent voters in closed primary states can't vote for him.

I've seen this happen a lot with registered Green Party voters wanting to vote in closed Democratic party primaries. They are shocked when they're turned away.

[Ms. Toad]

93. I guess we'll have to wait for time to prove you wrong, then,

when we see the party machine allowing him to participate in whatever state he feels like and supporting him.

[MaggieD]

94. I think he will play be the rules and declare as a democrat

He's not stupid.

[Ms. Toad]

96. Then why are you raising such a ruckus here? n/t

[MaggieD]

100. I don't think stating the DNC rules is raising a ruckus

The ruckus is being raised by people who think Sanders doesn't even have to commit to declaring as a DEMOCRAT to enter a DEMOCRATIC primary. If he can't do that why should the Democratic party support him or facilitate his campaign in any way, shape or form? The rules are just common frigging sense.

Honestly, it just makes me laugh out loud. Sanders supporters are a very sensitive bunch, as far as I can tell. And frankly, some of the nastiest liberals I have ever come across in 30 plus years as a Dem supporter.

I hope they don't plan on acting that way as they knock doors and such for Sanders. Because they are a huge turn-off.

[Ms. Toad]

147. Stating the rules isn't.

But dozens of posts in at least 2 threads I've seen is.

Whether he is allowed to run as a Democrat will fall out in the wash, when the powers that be either decide he is a suitable candidate or not. I don't know enough about Sanders to have decided whether I'm a supporter or not, but if there are two camps - I found the repeated, abrasive, demands toward Sanders much more of a turn-off than the rest of the two threads I've been in.

[MaggieD]

154. Uh no

No one started those threads except Sanders supporters insisting, very belligerently in fact, we should cheerfully accept people who refuse to declare as a Democrat into the Democratic Primary.

Sorry, but that notion is absurd.

Have a nice day.

[morningfog]

104. They dislike/fear Sen. Sanders.

[MaggieD]

112. Link?

Who has stated they dislike or fear him? Can you provide a link to a post like that?

[morningfog]

116. No I can't. How do you feel about Sen. Sanders and his run for president?

[MaggieD]

119. As long as he declares as a Democrat I will embrace him

That's because I am a Democrat. I have been a Democrat for 35 years (my entire voting life). Period. Full stop. I warmly accept all Democrats into our presidential primary races. Always have and always will.

[MADem]

141. We will know as soon as he files his candidacy declaration with the FEC. In less than 2 weeks, max.

He will have to write in the block (block 4 of the FEC form 2) what party he associates with.

And then, all this DU Fighting About Nothing will end!!!

[democrank]

60. Bernie won`t need a focus group to

help him decide what he believes in.

[polichick]

62. Very true, and he won't suddenly evolve on issues to catch up with the polls.

[hobbit709]

61. The only thing my voter registration card says is that I voted in the Democratic primary.

If I had chosen to vote in the Republican primary it would have a little R stamp on it. There is no party registration required on a voter registration card here in TX.

[PoliticAverse]

63. Note that Sanders is a member of the Senate Democratic Caucus...

http://democrats.senate.gov/members

[SidDithers]

71. Sure, until some reporter asks him "Are you a Democrat?"...

If he can't answer with a clear and simple "Yes", then ther will be lots of Democrats who won't support a non-Democrat seeking to be the Democratic nominee.

Is it McCarthyite for Democrats to expect their nominee to self-identify as a Democrat?

Sid

[MaggieD]

72. Bingo

the DNC bylaws also require him to declare as a Democrat.

[cali]

83. " I have been a member of the Democratic Caucus for 25 years"

I don't think it's as difficult as you believe

[SidDithers]

89. IMO, that answer is a dodge...nt

Sid

[MADem]

145. He doesn't have to dodge. His party affiliation will be found, in his own hand, on his FEC form 2,

when he files it within the next two weeks, as mandated by Federal Election law.

All of this fighting and griping and accusing on this thread is hilarious. I don't expect you to know every rule, but you'd think American voters who claim to be politically astute would have a clue about these things, particularly since we've seen Third Party candidates get all pissy because they weren't allowed on the stage at a Democratic Party debate.

If Senator Sanders wants to join in the Democratic Party debate(s), he'd do well to write "Democratic Party" in block four of the form 2. If his goal is to jump into the fray that way, that's most likely what he'll do. He'd have to be given a podium in that case.

If he doesn't do that, and he expects to be allowed on the stage, he'll have to get permission from the other candidates. Now, Hillary Clinton has donated to Sanders' "Friends of Bernie" PAC in the past, through her own HILLPAC...so it's not like they aren't friendly. She might want to play a "House of Cards" gambit with him, cynically, or she just might welcome all views. At this stage, as a front-runner, she can keep non-Dems off the stage of any debate.

We'll see how this shakes out.

[morningfog]

102. I think he will answer yes.

"Yes. I am a Democrat running for the Democratic Party's nomination."

[SidDithers]

105. I hope that's how he answers...nt

Sid

[Exilednight]

158. To answer your question ...

Yes it is.

[treestar]

81. Anyone can run on any platform with any party

and no one alleges they cannot.

I can see Bernie getting skepticism from Democrats. Why would our candidate for a top office be someone who just joined the party? That is a big uphill battle right there.

[MaggieD]

97. That's not what the DNC rules say

He needs to declare as a Democrat. Whether he means it or not.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

92. This has incited the party "purists".

Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only, no matter how big its membership may be is, no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently.

Rosa Luxemburg

[MaggieD]

95. The DNC rules make sense

Otherwise we'd be forced into accepting people who do not share the Dem agenda into Dem primaries. Like Ted Cruz, for instance. We don't need that much "freedom."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

114. Bernie isn't anything like Ted Cruz.

Your argument is silly.

[MaggieD]

117. Seriously?

You think the rules should be enforced selectively, as long as someone YOU like is breaking them? Honest to god, Sanders supporters just make me want to shake my head.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

120. I think that anyone who wants to run on the Democratic ticket should be allowed to run.

Do you really think that Ted Cruz is likely to run on the Democratic ticket?

Actually, I don't much care if he runs as a Democrat, an Independent, A Socialist, or a Vegetarian. He's still far better than Hillary.

[MaggieD]

122. Well get on the DNC and see if you can convince

Several hundred committee members to change the rules then.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

129. I gave up on the DNC long ago. But, the DNC has no rule about party affiliation.

In my state, Washington, candidates are not obliged to state their party affiliation on the ballot.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/10/politics/bernie-sanders-democrat-or-independent/index.htmlWashington

(CNN)Bernie Sanders might not be a member of the Democratic Party, but the independent senator from Vermont is openly considering a run at the party's presidential nomination -- and that might not be a problem after all.

According to a Democratic National Committee aide, Sanders would not have a problem getting on Democratic primary and caucus ballots because the current party rules do not call for presidential candidates to be registered members of the party.

The DNC defines a presidential candidate as someone who "has accrued delegates in the nominating process and plans to seek the nomination, has established substantial support for his or her nomination as the Democratic candidate for the Office of the President of the United States, is a bona fide Democrat whose record of public service, accomplishment, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrates that he or she is faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States, and will participate in the Convention in good faith."


States do have the ability to write their own rules for who qualifies as a candidate in their respective primary or caucus, but the aide said no one at the DNC can recall a state that has ever included being a registered Democrat as a requirement for their presidential candidates.

[MaggieD]

130. You should read the whole article

It refutes your statement. Your link does not work, but I have read the entire article previously.

As to the DNC not having a rule about, yes, they do:

Article 8, Section 1

"The Democratic Party of the United States shall be open to all who desire to support the Party and who wish to be known as Democrats."

https://uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/DNC_Charter__Bylaws.pdf

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

131. Well, I'd say running as a Democrat fulfills that rule for Bernie.

And, since Bernie can't register as a Democrat in Vermont since there is no party registration in Vermont does that disqualify anyone from running in Vermont. Which is also true in my state of Washington. Candidates may to declare a party affiliation on the ballot but are not required to.

Here's another link to the same story. Top one.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=&authuser=0&q=sanders+eligibility+to+run+as+democrat&oq=sanders+eligibility+to+run+as+democrat&gs_l=news-cc.1.0.43j43i53.32796.55417.0.62449.45.12.2.31.0.0.127.991.10j2.12.0...0.0...1ac.1.N1weuJb-u0E&gws_rd=ssl#hl=en&gl=us&authuser=0&q=sanders+eligibility+to+run+as+democrat

[Ken Burch]

143. We already know Bernie isn't breaking any rules.

If he runs in Dem primaries, he's a Dem. Stop raising non-existent questions.

[liberal_at_heart]

98. People think grouping people into parties and having rules put on those parties and on

the primaries and on debates allows them to control the process and the people involved. When people don't follow the script it is harder to control the process and the people which is just fine by me. I consider myself an Independent. I don't care if Bernie runs as a Democrat or as an Independent. I will vote for him either way.

[MaggieD]

113. Yeah, it's a wild and crazy idea that Democrats want Democrats in their primaries

Who would have thunk it? That's like crazy or something!! LOL!

[morningfog]

118. What's in a name?

First, Sen. Sanders will be running as a Democrat. Full stop, should be enough.

Second, can you kindly point to any position or vote by Sen. Sanders that is antithetical to the Democratic Party??? Link?

[MaggieD]

125. I'm not questioning his progressive credentials

But I think it would absolutely nuts for the DNC to break their rules for him and set a precedent that allows non-Democrats to enter the DEMOCRATIC primary. It's not complicated. He needs to follow the rules and declare as a Democrat.

[morningfog]

126. And he will, this was never in question.

He will declare his run as a Democrat for the Democratic nomination.

[MaggieD]

127. Actually there was a post here from a CNN story

... in another thread, quoting him as undecided on that. I think that is what spurred this discussion. Don't know why people started several threads on it. I hope he does declare as a Democrat. Happy to see him in the race -- as a DEMOCRAT.

[morningfog]

132. Bullshit. There is no such quote.

What spurred this is disruptors who misrepresent and idiots who refuse to read.

"I am getting balder and balder trying to figure these things out," he said at an event in Washington, D.C. on Monday where he acknowledged -- as he has before -- that he would not run outside the Democratic party establishment.

Whether he would change his party affiliation is another story.

"That is a decision I would have to make," he has said.

Devine, the political consultant working with Sanders, put it bluntly: "Would something stop Bernie from running as a Democrat? The bottom line answer to that is no."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/10/politics/bernie-sanders-democrat-or-independent/

[MaggieD]

155. LOL - you quoted the quote you say doesn't exist

I wonder if that makes your post eligible for a DUzy?

[Ken Burch]

135. Just admit he's put that to rest.

You have no justification to belabor the point.

[Ken Burch]

134. Nobody's asking them to break their rules.

Bernie establishes himself as a Democrat by filing to enter Democratic presidential primaries. He's not an infiltrator.

[Ken Burch]

144. And Bernie will run as a Dem. Issue put to rest.

He wouldn't be allowed to run in our primaries if he didn't.

[VanillaRhapsody]

152. OH yes it is....

He runs in his home state of Vermont AS and Independent....not as a Democrat...meanwhile Patrick Leahy from Vermont runs AS a member of the Democratic Party...

[AgingAmerican]

164. You need to rinse those dead horse splatters off your whip

nt