Those trying to paint Bernie Sanders as a untrustworthy on "social issues" should remember THIS;

[Ken Burch]

The other declared candidate for the Democratic nomination...

1) Raised no known objections when her husband decided not to challenge the racializatiion and misogynation of the "welfare reform" debate in the Nineties(going calmly along with "welfare families" were implied to be mostly led by single black mothers, despite the fact that most people on welfare are either white or Hispanic and a large contingent of welfare recipients were in fact white men);

2) Was a big supporter of Bill's decisions to throw attorney general nominee Johnetta Cole and Surgeon General Dr. Jocelyn Elders under the bus with no justification whatsoever;

3) Spent years publicly defending "don't ask, don't tell" and DOMA(and therefore will never be credible on LGBTQ issues;

4) Positioned herself as the white backlash candidate in the 2008 primaries, nearly sneaking away with the nomination by doing so-which meant she could never under any circumstances spoken out against racism as president had she been elected that year;

5) Remains a big supporter trade liberalization-a program which, in continually weakening unions, disproportionate harms working-class women and working-class poc.

So THAT candidate cannot claim to be better on any anti-social oppression issues or any more inherently trusworthy as an opponent of racism, sexism, homophobia or trans phobia than Bernie is.

Hold ALL candidates accountable.

[cali]

1. who has tried that? Bernie has an impeccable record on social issues

from abortion rights to marriage equality to civil rights to voting rights.

He was a student organizer with SNCC. Marched on Washington in 1963. Has a 93% rating from the NAACP

He voted AGAINST DOMA. He came out for full marriage equality years ago.

Has a 100% rating from NARAL

Has long focused on reform of the criminal justice system and introduced legislation to do just that.

Unlike Hillary, he has never said that he could agree to a ban on "partial birth" abortion.

[Ken Burch]

4. I know all of that, myself(thanks for posting it, btw).

But there have been weird insinuations getting spread around here...ever since that stupid "old white guy" graphic (from a still-mysterious source) was posted here late Wednesday night.

And there's been these weird implications that HRC is the go-to candidate on "social issues" simply because she is female.

[Scootaloo]

5. We have a poster here...

Who's been struggling to paint Sanders and his supporters as hostile to minorities. Mostly on the basis that - according to this struggling poster - "OWS was a movement of privileged white men."

It's really a struggle 2 understand what this poster is thinking, and what common houseold cleansers are involved in the thought process.

[smokey nj]

7. It's not just that one poster, unfortunately.

[Populist_Prole]

67. They're quite vocal

I don't think they really believe he's tepid on social issues. I think they're just miffed he's been very focal and focused on economic issues ( which he should be )

I wonder how many here are independently wealthy enough to worry only about social issues.

[smokey nj]

68. I wouldn't support Bernie if he WERE tepid on social issues.

[Populist_Prole]

69. And I wouldn't support ANYbody that allows us to become impoverished serfs n/t

Regardless of any other stances.

[smokey nj]

70. Amen!!

[Pooka Fey]

13. I've seen at least 3 OP's by different posters this week all pushing

that same filthy meme. I just put one of them on ignore.

Common household cleansers - good one Scootaloo!

[arcane1]

53. That's quite a stretch! If this is the best they can do...

they're in trouble!

[LWolf]

39. Exactly.

My only response to that ludicrous statement is

[hifiguy]

41. Those NAACP and NARAL ratings speak for themselves.

I absolutely trust Bernie. He has always been a loud voice for social AND economic justice and anyone who says otherwise is trolling or a damned liar.

[oberliner]

2. Another excuse for Hillary bashing

Good to know you think she "will never be credible on LGBTQ issues".

[Motown_Johnny]

8. Pretty defensive

To bad you can't address the substance of the post and need to simply characterize anything negative about Hillary as "bashing".

I shudder to think what her supporters will be doing once the RW slime machine gets rolling.

[oberliner]

9. I think she can still be credible on those issues

People's opinions can evolve over time and I think that has been the case for many with regard to LGBT issues in particular.

Thus, I reject the characterization made in the OP.

DU is a place where we, in theory, aren't supposed to have to deal with the RW slime machine. We're all working to get Democrats into office.

[Motown_Johnny]

10. each opinion is as valid as the other

so simply posting one against the other is really a zero sum gain.

Addressing the substance of the post would be more constructive (instead of just calling it "bashing).

[Exilednight]

52. Waiting for someone's opinion to evolve is not an

Encouraging sign. Leadership is about being ahead of the curve.

[romanic]

3. I like Bernie and warming up to Hillary.

That's pretty much all I got to say on this back and forth drama going on.

[giftedgirl77]

12. I'm with you on that one.

It's like the wild west on here.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. +100

[GoneOffShore]

62. Not yet it isn't.

Wait a couple of months and this place will be awash in the blood of innocents and the not so innocent.

Concern trolls, straw-persons (so as not to offend, though I really don't care as no one has the right to not be offended), PUMA's, plus all sorts of special snow flakes will be taking to their fainting couches and clutching their pearls.

[giftedgirl77]

63. This place is crazy.

[GoneOffShore]

64. You ain't seen nothing yet.

And if you hang around long enough you will, no doubt, encounter "The Professionally Outraged" and various members of the Sisterhood and Brotherhood of the Perpetually Offended. If you can see beyond those folks and laugh at them, you'll have more fun.

[smokey nj]

6. They're not so much painting him as untrustworthy per se,

Bernie's record on civil rights and social justice is impeccable and they know that. Since they can't smear him, they're going after his supporters.

[gollygee]

24. I'm glad to hear this

I did some googling and see that you're right- he has a very good record on social issues: http://www.ontheissues.org/house/Bernie_Sanders.htm

I saw a post from a Sanders supporter that suggested that he wasn't concerned about race ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6605457 ) and it honestly had me concerned.

[smokey nj]

30. It's why I support him. I don't think we should have to choose

between civil rights for all and economic justice, both are equally important to me.

[rurallib]

11. Anyone who thinks Bernie Sanders is untrustworthy on social issues is a

fucking idiot

[turbinetree]

15. Couldn't agree more................

it appears that when the stones are being thrown, you have to look at who threw the first stone.
And in my Bernie world he has thrown stones at Wall Street, right wing U.S. Supreme Court (Citizen United / Voting rights, which in my humble opinion is really important, I like to have some one nominating individuals that thinks the have's shouldn't get any more and the have not's getting more than getting screwed is kind of important for a lot human beings), trade deals to economic oblivion, wages, healthcare, lack of privacy, NSA spying, voting against the Iraq war, ect...... ----------------yes, I think I support Bernie Sanders, progressive Democrat for president, instead of third way centrist

[gollygee]

25. I wasn't worried until I read stuff from his supporters

about how he's all about class and not race, such as http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6605457

If that had been true, I assure you I wouldn't vote for Sanders. Luckily, a google of "bernie sanders social issues" reassured me.

Still, if his supporters post garbage about how he is only concerned about class and not social issues, people might believe it.

[Oilwellian]

46. One comment does not equal "his supporters"

Where is that coming from? I haven't seen any of his "supporters" make such a ludicrous statement.

[gollygee]

47. One of his supporters then

And there have been an awful lot of "class vs social issues" threads, and Sanders supporters seem to take the class side of them. I want a candidate who feels strongly about both - I'm not willing to compromise on either. I do think Sanders so far is my best choice as far as that goes.

[seabeyond]

51. i got my OP locked. only in a picture. but the picture said so much.

old white men, put up a picture in a group that is mostly white men, about an old white man addressing old white mens issues, and it is taking an old white man to do that.

now. people want to dismiss that. as a matter of fact, they came after me hard and fast to delete. so that was not in sanders name. yet since then, i am seeing sanders only associated with

he is the economic populist candidate.

to define his campaign like that is narrow.

nowhere, have i suggested sanders is not on womens side, side in vote and voice.

nowhere, have i suggested that. i am well aware of sanders positions.

but, to present this candidate as an advocate for the economic populist crowd says something. whether they want to admit it or not.

now, in this thread, i am being accused of, and people agreeing to, ... using house hold chemicals that effect my thought process.

when i say that social issue are my number one issue, and i am on board with economic addresses hence stepping to candidates, yet i am told i am not allowed to call out this "economic populist" campaign? what are the supporters saying to me? that i am not welcome.

[gollygee]

54. Yeah that sounds like the feeling I've had

It feels like people have been pushing that this is an economic populist campaign in opposition to a social justice campaign. But based on his website, I'd say it's both.

[seabeyond]

57. this little subthreads says it all. without dismissing me and my issues. or saying i am on household

cleaners.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026602923#post133

[NaturalHigh]

60. Who said you were on household cleaners?

[Ken Burch]

61. "Economic populist" doesn't equate to bigot.

And Bernie isn't responsible for that one image.

We've all listened to what you had to say. Why can't you move on about this?

[seabeyond]

65. the only threads i have replied are people subtly and not so subtly calling me out. i guess,

not only am i not allowed my opinion, but i am not allowed to address attacks and fabrications made toward me. and this would be your inclusive?

[Ken Burch]

71. I wasn't trying to silence you.

What I was asking was, what would, in fact, satisfy you that this has been put to rest?

This was never, at least on my part, about telling you what to do.

[Maedhros]

56. I think it's fair to say that Bernie is great on class AND social issues.

And besides, it's not like those issues are at odds with one another.

[99Forever]

40. You got that right.

Or they are a fucking liar.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Bernie's standing on what you straight whites call 'social issues' is unassailable, but trashing

someone else does not make that point at all. If another candidate questions Sander's positions, have at that candidate, but some jerk on DU saying that shit is no reason to sink to that level of campaigning.

[gregcrawford]

17. i HAVE MET BERNIE...

... and spoken with him several times. He is always accessible, and a tireless defender of those being jerked around by The System. He is THE most steadfast advocate for veterans this country has ever seen, and I know this from first-hand experience. THE SAME DAY that I called his office on behalf of a (REPUBLICAN!) friend's son suffering from PTSD, his people were on it and the issue was resolved in Dan's favor.

So don't nobody even THINK of telling me that he's not strong on social issues; I will be harsh in my critique.

Good response, Ken.

[MannyGoldstein]

18. Bernie Sanders: just another old white guy

And who doesn't know what that *really* means for America?

Regards,

TWM

[Iwillnevergiveup]

19. So far

what makes me so enthusiastic about Bernie's candidacy is that the more naysayers dig, the more good stuff they'll find that goes back decades.

[seabeyond]

20. for me, it is a different story than what you present. so if you suggest i am challenging sanders

social justice position you are wrong.

this is what pisses me off with the political here on du. taking the argument and twisting what is said to create a fabricated battle.

i find it obnoxious and wrong. i disrespect that position.

someone said, it is the supporters not sanders. sanders is impeccable so going after supporters.

maybe there is a reason.

instead of pretending otherwise, ignoring and fabricating a win argument.

[Ken Burch]

23. Bernie's candidacy is not discredited because a few of his supporters said stupid things.

What will satisfy you here? What do you need to hear or see from Sanders' before you can move on and let the anger you are feeling go?
Just come out and tell everyone what you want-what, in short, would be enough to make you feel this has been put to rest.

[seabeyond]

33. one of them would be people like bonobo that create an untrue argument, actually address what i said

and btw ken. in my mind, i am more supportive raising my issue to better address sanders run than those that create a false dichotomy.

i also think it is more true to sanders character, than what i am addressing and the people that make shit up

[Bonobo]

28. You tried to say that Sanders was just more "Trickle Down".

You tried to say that he only focuses on economic Wall St. issues for white middle class men and that therefore he would be asking people to put "social issues" on the back burner and that they would have to wait for it to "trickle down".

Yes. You did.

[seabeyond]

31. this is fabricating a lie to battle. that is not what i was trying to say. what i SAID

see the difference there bonobo. when you change what i say to make your argument it is a fail.....

what i said

now, if you are interested in what i actually said, instead of your made up story, get the fuck back to me

[Bonobo]

36. I'll just post a link to your "fugged" up OP and let others try to decipher it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6605902

[MineralMan]

21. Who is doing that?

I haven't seen anyone faulting Senator Sanders on social issues. Looks like a straw man to me, frankly.

Bernie Sanders has positions on everything I can think of that would be approved of by any Democrat. I doubt that anyone who says otherwise is much of a Democrat in the first place. Bernie's great! I question whether he has any chance of winning the nomination, but that has nothing to do with his excellent positions on issues.

In fact, I don't think anyone really opposes Senator Sanders as a candidate for President. A lot of people, however, do not think he will be the nominee. That's a different matter.

[Agschmid]

27. Strawman for sure.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

44. Read Scootaloo's post above. His identification is accurate. nt

[MineralMan]

48. I saw no identification. No links were provided.

I said that I had not seen any such posts on DU. If they exist, it should be a simple matter to link to them.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

49. There's no one who doesn't understand that you're faking naievety. Have a nice day.

[MineralMan]

50. I'm not. I have not seen any posts that meet the description

in the OP.

[gollygee]

22. I haven't read anything about him and social issues

He is my best fit for sure on economic issues. Just today I've read things, from both supporters and opponents, that have me concerned that he is totally focused on class and is not at all concerned about social issues. I find that hard to believe and I hope it isn't so. I would love a thread giving information about where he stands on social issues because so far I'm leaning toward voting for him unless what I've read is true.

[AgingAmerican]

42. Here is his record on social issues, AKA civil rights

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Bernie_Sanders_Civil_Rights.htm

The 'only focus on class' meme is a dishonest smear, IMHO.

[gollygee]

43. Yeah, thanks

I did some googling and his record on social issues is great.

[liberal_at_heart]

58. He has a clean voting record. That is what I base my vote on, not campaign promises.

He definitely has my vote.

[Agschmid]

26. Haven't seen that on DU...

[PeaceNikki]

29. Oh, I was expecting this thread to be heralding Sanders' social positions

Silly me!!

[Ken Burch]

34. They are all consistently better than the other declared candidate

(see Cali's post, above for a capsule summary).

[PeaceNikki]

35. You missed the point. It's your OP and your title implies you would expand on Sanders' admirable

social positions. Instead you used it to try to bash Clinton's.

Which is weird. Clinton supporters won't be swayed by continued criticism of her positions (or hey husband's, ffs). But maybe they'd listen if you showed how important these social issues are too Sanders. Also, I don't recall any Clinton supporters bashing Bernie on social issues at all.

Meh, whatever. Have fun.

[Ken Burch]

37. No, it didn't imply that.

It was in response to the assumption held by some that HRC would be better on those issues simply because of her gender.

[PeaceNikki]

38. Weird, because you didn't say that in your op and I've not seen anyone making such claims.

Also weird because 60% of your "points" are directly related to HER HUSBAND'S positions from literally a generation ago.

Like I said... Meh

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. "Those trying to paint Bernie Sanders as a untrustworthy on "social issues".

May I have a list please?


Thank you in advance.

>>>>>>>>> awaits list with eager expectation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. ...

[liberal_at_heart]

55. Hillary used to be against late term abortion and said we needed a more rational discussion

between pro-lifers and pro-choicers. I'm not even sure where she stands on it now. Not sure I would trust her even if she said she has changed her position.

[Gothmog]

59. Who is attacking Sanders? Most of the HRC supporters like Sanders' positions on most issues

The only real difference for most HRC supporters is that they want to win in 2016 and many of us do not think that Bernie is a viable general election candidate. I am Jewish and I would love to see a Jewish POTUS but I doubt that Bernie will be able to win in 2016

[dsc]

66. I don't recall either Clinton defending the substance of Don't Ask Don't Tell

I do recall both of them accurately stating that it was the best that could be done since Congress wouldn't change the law banning sodomy in the military. That meant we had two choices. Status quo which included arrests of gay men and lesbians for what they do in the privacy of their own bedrooms. Or Don't Ask Don't Tell which at least ended the witch hunts. It did make life slightly better for gays in the military.