A lot of people are going batshit crazy over these indictments.

[ellenrr]

Yes - it is a good thing, a surprising thing, that cops got indicted.
But "it ushers in a new civil rights era"!? (seen on twitter)
They tortured a man to death!

so according to Malcolm's analogy, they have withdrawn the knife in the back... a little. Not pulled it out, and certainly did not start healing the wound.

It's a revealing comment on Amerika when taking the first baby step toward doing the right thing - and no guarantee of the outcome - is celebrated as a new civil rights era.

Do the indictments mean people in Baltimore have jobs? Do they have better health care? Does their live expectancy now equal to that of whites?Are their schools better today than they were yesterday? Are their neighborhoods better? Is their housing less decrepit?

[romanic]

1. Damn right.

Especially this part.

Do the indictments mean people in Baltimore have jobs? Do they have better health care? Does their live expectancy now equal to that of whites?Are their schools better today than they were yesterday? Are their neighborhoods better? Is their housing less decrepit?

There's so much more that needs to be done. Stopping police brutality is a noble goal, but even without police brutality there's still gang violence, lack of jobs, crappy underfunded schools, broken homes and broken families that plague Black America more than any other ethnic group. Black lives should matter all the time, not just in regards to the police but with black people still living day by day. Economic justice = social justice, two sides of the same coin that we all should fight for.

[bvf]

2. + a billion.

Well put, every word.

There are too many assholes in charge here, and some people are fretting over the sex of some newborn infant overseas.

What the fuck is wrong with us??

[ellenrr]

6. Institutionalized racism does not go away, not with this indictment,

not with a conviction.
I don't know how one gets rid of institutionalized racism,
but I DO know that one does not wish it away by engaging in magical thinking.

I'm sure the folks in Baltimore know this, even as they celebrate. And they deserve to celebrate. And one young man who broke the window of a police car faces life imprisonment. And I think the number is 500 (?) arrested, who will face a bigoted criminal injustice system.

I don't necessarily agree with romanic about "broken homes and broken families that plague Black America".
Many families in Black America are different than the stereotypical nuclear family: one man, one woman, two and 1/2 kids.
That doesn't mean they are broken. They can still be filled with great love and devotion and they can produce fabulous human beings. And they can make great contributions to community even if not in the 'standard' model.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Many families in White America are different than

the "stereotypical nuclear family: one man, one woman, two and 1/2 kids." Notably the divorce and/or co-habitation rates (i.e., not "married&quot during the peak child-rearing ages. And given that whites are still the majority of the population, the sheer numbers are there.

[Enrique]

3. this isn't true

you are telling us that everyone thinks this solves the whole problem overnight. In fact no one is saying that.

[ellenrr]

4. why don't people read what they are commenting on?

I didn't say "everyone". I do not know what everyone thinks about anything, and neither do you.
Your saying "no one is saying that" is absurd, and why would you even make such a meaningless statement?
This is saying that you know what everyone in the world thinks/says, otherwise how could you say "no one".
really, think a little bit before you post.

[jtuck004]

5. You are going to disturb the order on the plantation by bringing up such...unpleasantness. n/t

[treestar]

7. I knew it wasn't going to be good enough

the minute I read about it.

[BumRushDaShow]

8. "Do the indictments mean people in Baltimore...?"

For we in the black community, it has always been "one step at a time" but at least it is "a step". It may be a low bar for those not among one of the communities of color, but for us, it removes one level of stress from us.

When "we" (as in my AA community) fear the people who are supposed to "protect and serve" just because of what we look like and have to look over our shoulders everywhere we go - into a store, riding a bike, walking down the street - and god forbid, don't run anywhere (including jogging) because you will be summarily considered "guilty" by any law enforcement officers in the area and "justice" will be meted out right on the spot... This may sound like a lot of hyperbole but the current case seems to illustrate this.

An indictment that might make a "few" (but we know not "all" of the criminal element within a police department), reconsider looking for, spotting, targeting, following, stopping, questioning, frisking, roughing up, assaulting, arresting, and then ultimately killing us in the street, IS the beginning of bringing about a change in terms of civil rights (as many of the the gains from the last "civil rights era" have essentially been negated - both in the courts and in practice on the streets).

Just being able to "walk" down the street or "stand on a corner" chatting with some friends, or browse through a store for something to purchase without being accosted by police, is quite a feat for many in America's urban areas.

[antiquie]

14. ^+

A tiny victory is still a victory.

[yeoman6987]

10. Do they have jobs?

Heck a bunch did until this week. Quite a few lost their jobs and livelihood in some cases this week. Now as far as systematic problems in Baltimore. Fire the police chief and get rid of the Mayor through recall. That would be a start.

[99Forever]

11. Very good observations.

It is a possible start down a better path, but just a small step in that direction.

[fadedrose]

12. Obama's role

was a complicated one. His presidency was a symbol to all colored peoples that you don't have to be white to be elected to high office, and that was a wonderful thing for them to see and believe.

But since he is the Commander-In-Chief of all Americans, it has to be left to a white president to help them without being accused of favoritism. That means any benefits they get will be shrugged off as a gift bestowed because of race.

But he has opened a door that can never be closed.

(and Marilyn has opened another one)

[secondwind]

13. How much has anything really changed? Take a look at the cover of TIME this week.. n/t

[ellenrr]

17. 50 years ago I was a first year student at Rutgers and my entry

into police abuse was a paper I wrote about a pregnant Black woman (who happened to be Muslim) who was pushed down the stairs by cops, and lost her baby.

50 years!!
nothing has really changed.
Police abuse is seen as a "black" issue, most white people don't get too much into it except in huge horrendous cases like this.
It's not a Black issue. Black people suffer more from police abuse, but take away Black people , cops would be abusing young people, or gay people, or people who look different (which they do).

But take the Race issue and add the power/control/psycho issue of the police mentality and it becomes an ugly lethal combination.

I really have no idea how this will change.

and then you have tons of people on social media "shoot all of them", or defending the actions of the cops.

sigh....

[zentrum]

15. Yes, they finally

……for once lift the boot off the neck a little and so are to be congratulated? More of the same self-serving, self-satisfied denial.

At the same time, I'm worried that homicide indictments won't hold—because the defense can "prove" they had no intent. Would second degree murder, or negligent homicide stand a better chance of actually putting these guys in jail?

But will it change the poverty/job levels in Baltimore? No, in fact, indictments will allow those served by systemic racism to say, "Okay, job done. We gave you a sop and 'did the right thing', so now it's over." They just want to knock the wind out of the demonstrations.

But demonstrations and pressure need to move to the next level, no matter what happens with these six cops.

[ellenrr]

16. yes, agree. I'm not saying that the indictments are not a big thing...

they are.
they are the result of the people of Baltimore staying on the job for a week and keeping the pressure on.
but people do not need to be lionized bec. they did the right thing (as the prosecutor did)
it is a low bar indeed when cops that torture a man to death are indicted and that is seen (as some do) as the coming of the messiah.
There will be (already is) a huge pushback and it will be a challenge to convict.
And even if they are convicted - good -
but that does not address the systematic problems.
And I don't think it would make any Black person safer.

[zentrum]

18. I'm with you.

[TransitJohn]

19. The depraved heart charges don't require intent eom

n/t