One of the big strengh Bernie has over Hillary. ..

[mylye2222]

He IS a liberal. Hillary was before, but now she just pretends to be.

Secondly he is ZERO possible scandals that might stop his bid.

I do believe people will open their eyes and vote for the one who really care about them.

[Thinkingabout]

1. Wow, I thought Bernie thought he was a socialist, now you are trying to say he is a liberal.

Well, guess what, Hillary is a liberal, I am a liberal, there are many other liberals here.

Scandals, just no one has really gone after his scandal, yes there are scandals, do I care to waste my time on delivering them, not at this time.

[JaneyVee]

3. Socialists now calling Liberals "centrists".

This is getting weirder by the day.

[Thinkingabout]

12. I have not changed my name and will remain liberal and a Democrat, guess

Socialist will remain socialist to me. It is weird some wants to rename others and then take the name we have had for many years.

[Exilednight]

4. Hillary, by her own admission, is not a liberal. When asked

During a 2008 primary debate if she was a liberal, she declared she was a progressive and completely ran away from the liberal tag.

[Thinkingabout]

13. That would be her priviledge.

[Exilednight]

14. What do you base your belief on?

[Thinkingabout]

15. What do I base my belief on, it is a liberty we have, you can have the privilege to

Say what you want about yourself, it is called freedom of speech.

[Exilednight]

16. YOU said Hillary is a liberal.

What do you base that on?

[Thinkingabout]

17. Re-read your post #4, I said it was her privilege to make the statement.

What basis are you asking this question?

[Exilednight]

18. This basis

Thinkingabout
1. Wow, I thought Bernie thought he was a socialist, now you are trying to say he is a liberal.
Well, guess what, Hillary is a liberal, I am a liberal, there are many other liberals here.

Scandals, just no one has really gone after his scandal, yes there are scandals, do I care to waste my time on delivering them, not at this time.

I ask again: what do you base this belief on?

[Thinkingabout]

19. Maybe, just maybe I know her record, I happen to know my opinion of what a liberal is and I think

She is a liberal Democrat.

[Exilednight]

20. My question still holds.

[Thinkingabout]

21. Can't help you.

[Exilednight]

23. So you have nothing tangible to point to

To show Hillary's liberalism. Thanks for finally answering, that's all I was asking.

[Thinkingabout]

24. Make your own judgement, search for her stand on the issues, study her life.

Are a liberal?

[Exilednight]

25. I have studied her, and don't find her a

Liberal. In my opinion, liberals don't hold their fingers to the political winds before taking a position.

To this liberal, motive is just as important as the stance.

If you ever find any thing tangible to point to, then please feel free to share it.

[Thinkingabout]

27. I have, now you will have to find your tangible thing.

[Exilednight]

30. I have an entir library of books and debates

campaign speeches and Senate speeches showing how she has switched positions one step behind public opinion.

[Agschmid]

26. There is tons to point at.

This kind of badgering does no good.

[Exilednight]

31. Then please point to it. I am looking

For evidence where Hillary took a stand before public opinion shifted and held that stance.

[Agschmid]

33. Your goal posts just moved...

But here you go. Hillary was for Universal Healthcare in 1993... Didn't happen until mid/late 2000's.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

Hillary is a liberal, sorry that argument doesn't work. If you want to support Bernie do it by not tearing down others.

[Exilednight]

38. We don't have universal health care. We have

Government sanctioned mandates to purchase corporate services. BIG difference.

I didn't move the goal posts. My view of what a liberal is has never moved.

Her position on gay marriage is one example.

Same with trade agreements. Her positions have been for NAFTA, then against it, then for trade agreements again, and now with TPP looming on the horizon she has yet to take a definitive stance.

[Agschmid]

40. You are right we don't.

Maybe had we embraced her plan in 1993, we would?

[Exilednight]

41. The plan we have is the plan she offered then. The one

Reason I supported Obama in 2008 was due to his lack of a mandate.

The two things I find ironic about Obama's presidency is the fact he disagreed with her on health care reform and foreign policy, yet we ended up with Hillary as SoS and her HC reform.

I, also, find it ironic that after Hillary left the Obama team, he seems to have shifted to the left on several issues. Cuba and Iran are more inline with Obama's campaign rhetoric vs dealings with Russia and North Korea during Hilary's tenure as SoS.

[INdemo]

55. Ok then she will have to return all that money to the Wall Street

corporate mafia then raise her campaign funding from the grass roots working class voters, then I will believe she's serious about losing the Republican lite label.
You should really review a little history about FDR,Harry Truman, JFK and Hubert Humphrey, then you might get an idea of what a liberal is. Trust me Hillary is not a liberal.

[cali]

8. of course his approach is liberal.

Hillary has long been a centrist politician.

And no, there are no scandals in his past. He lived in my neck of the woods, the Kingdom, when he first moved to VT. I didn't know him then, but I certainly know people who did. Even in the wild hippie days, he wasn't much of a hippie and he sure wasn't wild.

He's been in Congress for 25 years and he hasn't profited from it. He's one of the least wealthy members. he's never taken corporate money. He lives pretty simply.

You couldn't deliver any scandal on him if you tried.

[tazkcmo]

57. Ha! Bernie's October Surprise!

He'll reveal that his hair was STYLED that way!

[lame54]

2. point one check point two check point three...

Are you kidding me

[Agschmid]

5. There are better ways to make your point than to try to bring others down.

[pinboy3niner]

9. "But why start now?"

Flashback to Giuliani on SNL after 911.

[Voice for Peace]

6. seems he's an honest man with no need or desire to be something else.

Not ambitious in an egomaniacal way; no time or interest
in bullshit. No Kissinger kissies.

[brooklynite]

7. In fairness...NOBODY has a scandal until they have a scandal...

To assume that Sanders AND his staff AND his supporters will all be trouble-free for the next year is somewhat naive.

[cali]

10. they'll attack his wife, Jane O'Meara Sanders- she did a shitty job at

Burlington College. I pretty much doubt anyone on his staff has much in the way of scandal in their background. And who cares about his supporters? It's not like he has ANY big money individual supporters.

One interesting thing about his senior staff is how many women there are.

[sabrina 1]

11. I assume there are efforts going on right now to try to FIND a scandal re Bernie.

We know how smear campaigns are born. Thanks to Anonymous leaks we saw one in action.

It costs millions apparently, to drum up smear campaigns. They even conduct contract bids such as the one HB Gary was bidding on for the BOA contract.

It was certainly revealing.

Bernie won't have that kind of money, so I doubt there will be Security Contractors working for his campaign to try to dig for something to smear his opponents with.

And we will recognize them when we see them.

Saw a couple already, which tells us that Bernie IS viewed as a serious candidate. They don't waste money on anyone who is not.

[DCBob]

22. I guess a socialist is a super liberal..

which trumps a plain old regular liberal like Hillary.

[99Forever]

29. Hillary is no liberal, not by a long shot.

And if you are looking to play that stupid fucking "Boo! He's a scary SOCIALIST!" card, I suggest you do so at some RWNJ site, 'cuz it isn't likely to work here.

[leftofcool]

32. WOW! Defensive.

[HERVEPA]

52. Wow! Accurate.

[LordGlenconner]

56. Most Sanders supporters are

When they're not engaging in their persecution fantasies about mean 'ol Hillary and her goons.

[DCBob]

34. poo on you.

[99Forever]

35. I'm sure you know all about poo.

You fling it like a pro. Too bad you've covered yourself in it, in the process.

[Doctor_J]

46. Hillary calls herself a centrist. she is more conservative than Reagan was when he was

president.

[DCBob]

48. She was ranked 11th most liberal Senator ahead of Patrick Leahy..

and a bunch of others who are often considerrd liberal.

http://voteview.com/SENATE_SORT110.HTM

[Doctor_J]

50. I also read that Sanders is 38th most liberal. And that the president was born in Kenya

so?

[DCBob]

59. That would be non-sense as I am sure you realize.

The website that classifies Hillary as 11th most liberal is called voteview.com and is considered legit and provides the best rankings available based on voting records. See Nate Silver's article from 2008.

========================

Liberal-Conservative Rankings Done Right

By NATE SILVER

I think I’m a pretty smart guy, but every now and then I come across something and say to myself “man, that shit is deep”.

This morning, in doing a little bit of remote-term planning for features that we might add to the site in the distant future, I was doing some background research on liberal-conservative scores and other methods of vote classification and stumbled across a website called voteview.com, created by a University of California at San Diego professor named Keith Poole. Voteview uses an extremely rigorous methodology for ordering Senators from most liberal to most conservative which to my mind produces some fairly intuitive results.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/liberal-conservative-rankings-done/

[leftofcool]

28. I don't think I would bet money on the zero scandal.

[liberal N proud]

36. What scandals?

To date every fabricated right wing scandal thrown at Hillary has done what?


NOTHING!

[tammywammy]

37. Your shtick is tiresome

Next time why not just post a positive thread about Bernie and not bring up Hillary. You do Bernie a disservice.

[Florencenj2point0]

39. what what?

Well at least you admit that she used to be liberal. Now she just pretends to be? She has always been a consistant progressive. What is wrong with you people and you lack of facts?
Also, the republicans can make up as many facfake scandals about Sanders as they do about Clinton. At least with her we know she can remain standing. Like Bill Maher says, she eats scandals for breakfast.

[Thinkingabout]

43. Good post.

[Thinkingabout]

42. I am beginning to understand why there are not a lot of accomplishments

Completed. Folks can't seem to get to first base and dont know where to go next.

[Lil Missy]

44. The strength that matters is who can win.

There's a real world outside of DU. It would behoove you to have a reality check now and then. You seem to be living in a make-believe world.

[mother earth]

45. He has been the real deal straight through, with every issue, ALWAYS...

not many can hold a candle to him.

Some people will continue to say he can't win, & they will be proven wrong. Soon it will be plain as the nose on their faces.

[Gothmog]

47. How is Sanders going to compete in a general election contest?

[notadmblnd]

51. I totally agree.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

53. More unnecessary infighting. NOBODY on DU is going to change their minds about voting

Hillary vs Bernie.



I have gone out of my way to tell people that if they support Bernie, please continue to support him WHEN he WILL vote FOR Hillary if he is not the candidate.

For Hillary supporters, nothing about Bernie is worrisome, he brings nothing but positive in so many ways.

Embrace him while supporting Hillary, imagine a solidified Democratic party, no WAY the rat bastards could win ANYTHING

[SidDithers]

54. Kick...nt

Sid

[UTUSN]

58. It's not about who's a better human, more noble, better on laundry list issues. It's winning.

Only the winner can actually do anything. Even the most mediocre short of criminality Dem who wins will have a impact on our agenda, even if only by nominating, not only federal judges, but thousands of grunt policy makers down the line. For a generation to come. In my lifetime I've had my share of losing NOBLE Dems: Starting with Adlai, then Hubert, Walter, George, Michael, and Al. All of them were more humane, smarter, better all around than those who beat them. Their political nobility ended in nothing.