Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
Sat May 2, 2015, 10:24 PM May 2015

I'm a great believer in civil disobedience--demonstrations, strikes, teach-ins,

crying "Theater" in a crowded fire as St. Abby used to say. (Yeah, I know he was a Jew. In my pantheon, Jews can attain sainthood as easily as anyone else.) I don't much think we can change the course of our alleged civilization without major citizen involvement.

I despise violence. I was in the old Madison antiwar movement and watched it essentially destroyed, first, by the burning of a neighborhood grocery store and then by the insane bombing of the Army Math Research Center. Violence does not good. Nobody is going to win with rocks & bottles against the militarized police, the National Guard, and the military itself if it comes to a last resort.

A very impressive study by Chenoweth & Stephan, Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict, provides most of the empirical for what I'm saying. They show 2 essential things. First, nonviolent revolutions have historically had a better chance of succeeding, and second, violent revolutions, even when they succeed in displacing the old regime, generally end up replacing one dictatorial system with another. In other words, do you want to end up being like Denmark or like Stalin's Soviet Union?

So--I was very interested in the innovations and general style of the Occupy movement. It looks like a promising beginning.

But there is one very dark, miasmal cloud that has infiltrated the citizen actions across the country. That cloud is often referred to as the "Black Bloc," and they are generally identified as anarchists. They are not, in fact, anarchists. They are nihilists, and they are very destructive to social-change movements. In fact they are so destructive that I would be totally unsurprised to learn that they are false-flag agents sent out to create riots in order to justify police crackdowns and to provide propaganda footage for the Establishment press.

So--here's the question. What the fuck can we do about them? Ideas?

4 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I'm a great believer in civil disobedience--demonstrations, strikes, teach-ins, (Original Post) Jackpine Radical May 2015 OP
The internet is a weapon. GeorgeGist May 2015 #1
did I fall into the time portal again into 2007? *yawn* MisterP May 2015 #2
Any time protesters turn violent... Oktober May 2015 #3
I am a great believer in the media being forced to report EVERYTHING that is going on... ScreamingMeemie May 2015 #4

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
4. I am a great believer in the media being forced to report EVERYTHING that is going on...
Sun May 3, 2015, 02:51 PM
May 2015

when SOMETHING is going on...

...but that will never happen, will it?

If they did that, there would be no reason for this post.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I'm a great believer in c...