General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmericans are becoming desperate for change.
And it is across the board - Democrats and Republicans alike.
That is one reason why Bernie Sanders is so popular.
Many Americans feel that America is on the wrong track and if we don't change our way very soon, there will be no turning back. There is an underlying anxiety across Party lines.
The majority of people, including a great many middle-class folks, see the writing on the wall. They are losing ground every day. The wealthy have declared war on everyone else and now have bought our political system to serve their own best interests. The 1% have persuaded many of their bought politicians that "their" interests are the "peoples" interests. But history shows that to be dangerously wrong.
There seems to be no exit from this cycle of politics. The two Parties play spin the bottle and take turns pretending to be in charge. The interests of the people at large are ignored. Everything is for sale. Power is the only goal of most of our elected officials. They have become very good at lying to their supporters. If it's not the Republicans' fault, then it must be the Democrats' fault - and vice-versa. It's the same old shell game.
But Americans do not see any light at the end of this tunnel. A little voice tells them they need to change course or we may not have the opportunity to do so in the future. This is our last chance to save whatever vision we may have had of what we called "America"...
daleanime
(17,796 posts)the quiet desperation is quickly becoming very loud desperation.
merrily
(45,251 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)But it never really came.
This time we have a candidate with a long history of the kind of thing people are hungry for.
We will now see whether big money can by the status quo.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)Because anything liberal coming out of a presidential candidate's mouth is going to immediately hearken back to Obama and how he turned out to be nothing but a lukewarm RepubliCON. I even say it to myself at times when I hear Senator Sanders state his stand on the issues. "Why I've heard that before and it came out of the mouth of the current president who is trying to sell the country on another "free" trade deal."
I know Senator Sanders is the real deal because he has stood for liberal issues ever since he was in politics, but a small voice in my head keeps saying, "Obama sounded real liberal too. I've heard that before."
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)of standing by what he says. Obama ran on hope, change, fired up, and very few specifics. His rhetoric fueled his popularity. After eight horrendous years of Bush/Cheney, people were starved for something hopeful to cling to. Frankly, I didn't buy into it because he did not spell out how exactly changes were going to be made. Not only that, he abandoned many of his promises once elected. People should have known that a candidate who often votes "present" is not someone who is going to take a stand and fight.
Bernie Sanders is not afraid of standing for causes he believes in. In his Dec. 2010 eight hour speech/filibuster, he detailed exactly what is wrong with many of the Bush policies that Obama embraced and extended. It is all detailed in his book "The Speech" in which Sen Sanders vows that all proceeds from the sale of the book will "go to charitable, non-profit organizations in the State of Vermont - mostly relating to the needs of children". How many fat cat politicians would do that?
I believe in Sen Sanders. He has earned my respect and my confidence by the way he has lived and the way he has led.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)And I hope Senator Sanders can get his record across to voters.
But I honestly believed Obama when I voted for him after the bushes finished their reign. And though I keep fighting off the nagging voice it keeps coming back. Like I said Obama has done a disservice to all future liberals.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)It feeds the narrative that they all lie to us and do the same old policies for the most part, which is what most Americans believe. The way to fix it, of course, is to support the real deal.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)but didn't do enough checking. Mainly because there really wasn't much of a record.
Which is why from now on, I WANT our candidates for this high office to have a record that will back up their words.
In this election so far, both declared candidates have those records.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)and I believed Obama. It just makes me NOT trust my instincts.
My instincts say Senator Sanders is the real deal. And then that nagging voice.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)said 'wait a minute'. One was his evasion every time he was asked about bringing War Criminals to justice eg.
There were a few things that I got that nagging feeling about, but even with those few things, which to be honest didn't really become very apparent until late in the campaign, we were coming out of eight years of Bush/Cheney and McCain/Palin was the alternative, so I brushed them aside.
Add to that he benefited by not having a long record to judge him by.
Bernie otoh, DOES. There are few issues I disagree with him on. When I listen to him, I want to jump up and say 'YES' and he HAS challenged those who need to be challenged, publicly. He has not waffled when asked for his opinion on Wall St corruption.
He is as close as we are ever going to get to what this country needs right now.
And if he is fooling us, he's been doing it since he was in college. That's a long time not to make a slip somewhere along the way on some pretty major, and sometimes very controversial issues.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Why aren't so-called Democrats calling out Obama(and Hillary) about his outright lies concerning TPP. He is flat out lying. When are people going to stop falling for this sucker game?
Response to billhicks76 (Reply #78)
Name removed Message auto-removed
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)I sometimes feel it's impossible because the system is rigged and the players compromised. I agree with Robert Reich...TPP is based on lies like NAFTA but it's much bigger and deadlier. No one can enforce 3rd world or totalitarian countries to stick to labor or environmental rules. Corporations know this. We lose jobs and now we give up the last thing we have...Sovereignty. My business can be sued by some entity in another country. I have no intellectual property protection. Oil companies can sue solar companies for interfering with profits. Obama knows this so my guess is he's only ALLOWED to enact minor reforms in this country but us forced to bat for corporate America because they are squeezing him somehow. What they have on him I don't know but what else explains his schizophrenic bifurcated policy making???
fasttense
(17,301 posts)So, that really is not what bothers me about Obama. It's that he made himself out to be a liberal but has performed like a moderate RepubliCON.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)I believe that President Obama was naive in believing that he could actually work with the Republicans. From the outset they were determined to oppose anything that he put forth. Perhaps he should have been forceful and taken his issues to the public.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)But he is such an inspiring speaker, I truly believe that if he had taken populist issues to the public and used his bully pulpit to win over the American people he would have gotten what he wanted.
The easy way Obama cooperated with corporations and banks, the willingness of his administration to ignore malfeasance from bankster, corporations, the uber rich, the military industrial complex and the politically connected, his effort after effort to get along with RepubliCONS, his willingness to give the rich another tax giveaway while quickly taking back a tax cut to the rest of us, just demonstrates his essential conservative nature. He hid that nature during the campaign and he would probably have lost if he had showed it.
If Senator Sanders wind, he will face the same obstructionism from RepubliCONS.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)That is the question...and will he veto their bills that destroy us?...or will he compromise principles in order to get along?
People don't hold it against someone if they fight hard for what is right...but they do when they cave to pressure...it spells weakness.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I was boondoggled by Obama's promises of change.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)I actually believed the meme that once he had a second term things would happen...well they did but not like I had hoped...the first thing out of the box was the attack of social security, that is when I realized I had been fooled.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Sanders for President!
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Seriously, email the campaign because that is great.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)If they make it, I will buy it. I'm going to annoy everyone with my Bernie t-shirt logos. I donated my Obama ones long ago so it will be good to refresh the wardrobe.
raccoon
(31,110 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)to those who can least afford to pay it, by raising the sales tax. The RWNJs in our legislature don't have the courage or inclination to pass a bill that asks the filthy rich, who can afford to pay a little more, to pitch in.
The good news is that this cynical ballot measure is going down in flames big time. People are finally waking up to what is being done to them.
calimary
(81,220 posts)That's why I cringe every time that Emily's List spokeswoman Jess McIntosh is on. Every time she's called a race and said it was a certainty the Democratic woman candidate would win, that candidate LOST. Whether it was Kay Hagan in North Carolina or Alex Sink in Florida (those are just the ones I remember off the bat), her analysis was consistently pretty worthless.
And mind you, I appreciate Emily's List. Very much. I've even donated. I appreciate all the people on our side getting face time on the air and on cable. I welcome it. And the more clever and eloquent they are, the better. And Jess McIntosh is certainly eloquent, and she presents herself well visually - which you NEED for on-camera work. Granted, I'd rather have her on than ANYBODY from the Dark Side. But still...
corkhead
(6,119 posts)1.4 million Michiganders voted no on Proposal 1 while less than 351,000 voted yes, according to the Michigan Secretary of State's office. The 80-20 rejection may be the most one-sided loss for a proposed constitutional amendment in state history.
http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2015/05/05/angry-voters-reject-proposal-michigan-roads-await-viable-fix/26950451/
brewens
(13,574 posts)slaves that were made overseers or house servants. The type that would go along with anything their masters wanted as long as they kept that higher status and never had to go back to working the fields, something that was constantly held over their heads. That's why OWS was portrayed the way it was. They just want free stuff and to get it, they want to take what you have! It was about nothing of the sort. It was about stopping the looting at the very top.
If you're right-winger, getting close to retirement and sitting pretty well, the 1% aren't going to find a place for you in their gated communities to keep you and your stuff safe. You're out here with the rest of us and you'd better get a clue pretty quick!
butterfly77
(17,609 posts)Exactly
closeupready
(29,503 posts)And they cash in, post-term, as a reward for having been a good toadie whilst in office. All this populist talk is implicitly understood by Beltway Insiders as being nothing more than hot air, a necessary evil as a means of persuading voters that 'this time, it will be different!'
840high
(17,196 posts)I refuse to hold my nose ever again.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Lucy holding the football
donnasgirl
(656 posts)kentuck
(111,079 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)...many many people think that giving the private sector more power and control over our government is the answer.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)not enough to keep the vast majority of Congress from being re-elected. Hint, you don't get change with the same old Congresspeople.
President Sanders won't be able to change much of anything if McConnell is running the Senate and Boehner is running the House.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)I think people are starting to look for solutions beyond the Party label. Their revenge will not be merciful.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Congress has got to change too.
GOTV
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)on real problems. The American people are going to have to demand real change in previously UN-heard of numbers that I don't think are there just yet. I hope I am wrong about this, but Climate Change will not wait for us to get our sh*t together while fighting oil company Lobbyists!
He can also keep us out of freaking wars we have no business fighting except to support the MIC!
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)The house won't most likely unless the presidential candidate can depress Republican turnout and bring Democrats to the polls. It's a tall order but not entirely impossible.
erronis
(15,241 posts)Seriously. The payroll of the critters scurrying around capitol hill are miniscule compared to the $$$s that are being spent on contracting agencies. You could give 100% merit increases to each critter if they did something good for the country and it wouldn't come close to the flood of taxpayer dollars that are going out the door.
These $s are mainly unaccounted for, may go to off-shore tax-free locations, are decidedly used for rewarding ex-law-makers when they decide to take a "leave for personal reasons."
One thing that a bully/FDR/Sanders pulpit could do would be to impose a strict accounting on cash flows between the vested interests and those critters (and SCOTUS and executive.)
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)the Congress & Senate went to the party people chose to vote for, while other chose not to vote. It takes 2-4-6 yrs to undo those changes
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)I think Sanders is a good man to help bring about that change - I think he would be a good leader. I also think though, that we need to promote, push and accomplish that change ourselves. The Republicans in the House and Senate would give Sanders a hell of a time - the rank and file conservatives, tea party republicans, and so on... shudder at the very word "democracy" let alone "democratic socialism". They will likely try to paint Bernie as an evil socialist, which is kind of funny, considering they did the same thing to Obama - and Sanders actually IS a democratic socialist.
Sanders is great, but the power required, the strength and the voices required to make change will have to come from the American people. Voting, protesting, doing whatever is necessary to assure that those of us who are NOT wealthy might have a chance to at least survive and to thrive.
My fear is that it may already be too late - that the system is so rigged, so bought and paid for, so tightly controlled, that we can no longer truly make a difference through the normal means. I guess we'll find out.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)If you try to go to Clearwater Beach this weekend you will wait hours for a parking spot. Want to make a reservation at the Mystic Fish? Better do it today. It will be booked by tomorrow or Thursday. The Dali Museum? Absolutely packed. How about a boat trip? Book your trip today or get to the ramp really early. They are all going to fill up. Clearwater Marine Science Center? They will be turning people away on Saturday because of how many will show up. The local parks? Jam packed by 10 am. A round of golf for Saturday? Hope you have already booked a tee time if you are thinking about a descent place. That being said, even the dog tracks will be packed.
People simply don't get this for some reason. All of these people are doing what they are doing in the name of fun. The activities I described range from free(gas money) to very expensive. The blanket statements in the op about Americans are just not true. If they were, we would be seeing great change.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Most or at least one parent works all weekend. Most parents have more than one job with some people working night shifts and leaving the kids with the grandparents. They never see their kids or would have time to volunteer at their schools. No one under 50 except for the upper middle class, owns a home, and no one will for the forseaable future because housing prices in Southern California are far too high. I don't live in an especially poor neighborhood of metro Los Angeles, but definitely not the leafy streets of Santa Monica or coastal cities where people seem to have reaped the benefits of the recovery. People are just scraping and they have no idea when it's going to get better.
In the entertainment industry, massive layoffs and outsourcing is squeezing everyone. In my field, a person with about 10 yrs experience used to make between $80-150k a year and could support a family with union benefits. Now they are quite literally posting jobs for $500 a week with no benefits as contractor. It's only sustainable if you are very young and a lot of people, such as myself, have had to find supplemental careers or drop out altogether.
So the news isn't great everywhere. People are struggling and they're angry. But they're too damn tired to do anything about it. This was completely by design.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I think you missed my point. The same thing you mention in your reply is also going on in Clearwater. My point might not have been clear enough. As long as a majority of people in an area can do what I mentioned, change will not rapidly happen and people will not pine for it. Governments do a great job and holding that line. I do think your reply is spot on.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)that the rcovery is in full swing and everything is fine. The line "we are at full employment" is because people are taking crappy, low wage jobs. I think in an effort to support the current administration, many Democrats have lost touch.
I don't disagree that people are looking for distraction. There is also no doubt that they are building lots of debt to do it. I think that the reason why people don't ask for change anymore is that they don't believe government leaders can bring it. To them, Washington is just a game, where everyone gets rich and nobody fulfills their promises. There is a complete lack of trust. So I don't think they know who to ask or who to go for to get change. They're just putting their heads down and trying to do the best they can. It's going to be very hard to get enthusiastic or trust a politician again. That's why voter turn out is so low.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)for rich conservatives. However, the city of Clearwater looks very run down, in my opinion. There's a reason Republicans were delighted to have a convention in Tampa. Then there's the Scientologists
Kind of disturbing, the contrast between the Clearwater and Clearwater Beach.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Is that you have no clue about Clearwater. Very few of the activities I mentioned require one to be a one percenter. The contrast between the Clearwater and Clearwater Beach. One of the best lines here.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)to Clearwater Beach because I was priced out and Clearwater was obviously run down in contrast (excluding the ample mansions and millionaire estates along bay).
South of Clearwater Beach, same story - Mega Rich.
The point being that Clearwater Beach is a place where there is an abundance of wealth, far, far above average. Clearwater, however, as of a few years ago was on list of Florida's extreme poverty zones along with some other areas around Tampa if I recall correctly.
And there are plenty of Rich people in Florida to clog up the golf courses and small aquariums.
To me Clearwater vs. Clearwater Beach is demonstrative of the disparity we have come to accept as "normal".
dembotoz
(16,799 posts)just sayin
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)there are 3 SCOTUS appointments looming in our horizon.
But I plan to campaign for Bernie, have already donated TWICE, and will do so again and again and again.
I hope there are millions of people out there who are doing this too!
ImaPolitico
(150 posts)Hillary will win the presidency in a heartbeat. Mr Sanders will never become president.
Am anxious to hear the two debate their total of six in all.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Accurate. Insightful.
riqster
(13,986 posts)StarzGuy
(254 posts)But it already maybe too late. At least too late for my life cycle, now at 60. DINO's have cost us too many times yet they keep getting re-elected all the while even their numbers are dwindling with the take over of the US congress by the Republicans. Our hope now is to hold on to the POTUS. I am tired voting for the lesser or two evils. I want a president who speaks to my values. I will vote for Sanders if he is still in the democratic primary by the time it gets to Arizona. If he does not win the nomination and Clinton is the democratic nominee, Arizona will most likely go with the Repuke nominee so I have a decision to make. One of three choices; don't vote, vote for a third party candidate (if on the ballot) or vote for whom ever the democratic nominee is which is likely to be Clinton. At this time I have not idea what I would do.
valerief
(53,235 posts)as communists!!!
Still, I hope Bernie gets elected prez. If not him, at least, a progressive.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Sanders is popular across the political spectrum? How well known do you think he is beyond circles of political junkies on the internet?
Kablooie
(18,628 posts)But now we have TPP barreling down the road towards us.
---
Bernie has deeper held liberal views of course and that's his strong point but it's his weak point also.
People want change but in two diametrically opposite directions so anyone that pushes too hard in either direction is likely to be shut down in the long run.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)pscot
(21,024 posts)TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)Autumn
(45,057 posts)Can't remember who said it but I'm not going to keep voting the same old thing that doesn't work. Because IMO the ones we vote for don't care if it works for the poor and the elderly. It works for them and the ones that donate to them.
It's supposed to be Einstein that said it but that is not certainty. And it's a very good way of putting it that might resonate with people.
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)so I said, what about a Sanders/Warren ticket and he just grinned. "That would be fine" he said.
of course he would vote for Sanders regardless of running mate.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)So far, the only candidate who will provide change is Bernie Sanders...
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Electing the lesser of 2 lousy candidates is no longer an option.
old guy
(3,283 posts)the reasons are not the same. Many people on the right are religion oriented and they are dissatisfied that we don't have a theocracy and they really want one! These people will never, ever change. They don't live in every day reality. Their thoughts and actions are guided by their religious beliefs. They don't care if the middle class is disappearing, they don't care if unions are being destroyed, they don't care if the politicians are being bought and paid for, because God will make everything OK.
There are the anti-tax crowd, the anti-immigrant groups, NRA lovers, racists and bigots of all stripes. All of these people agree the country is headed in the wrong direction, but the direction they think we should go is by no means the direction I would be willing to go. Likewise, they are not willing to go in my direction. There should be no doubt that the conservative economic platform, aka trickle down, is a total failure and will never work, yet it is touted every day as a model for our future. How does any of this change because all of the people vote?
kentuck
(111,079 posts)As you say, they don't live in "everyday reality".
However, the majority sees the wealth disparity, the jobs leaving our country, the infrastructure deteriorating, the middle class shrinking, the unfair taxation system, etc, and feel that the country is on the wrong track. They see a broken political system that has been taken over by the 1% and they feel hopeless and helpless to do anything about it.
Those are the people that must change the politics of this country.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)We're at full employment, crime is at record lows, the poverty rate is lower than it's been in about 20 years (and the lowest it's ever been if you count non-cash transfers), and more Americans than ever before now have health insurance. Those aren't the conditions that lead an electorate to want change.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)And they don't think we are at "full employment".
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It will probably be even lower next year.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Rasmussen poll May 4, 2015
This finding is up one point from 26% the week before, the lowest level of optimism since mid-December. The previous low for the year was 27% in mid-March. In January and February, 30% or more of voters said the country was heading in the right direction after generally being in the mid- to high 20s since mid-June 2013.
Sixty-five percent (65%) now believe the nation is headed down the wrong track, down two points from last weeks high for the year.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/right_direction_or_wrong_track
chervilant
(8,267 posts)You musta gotten one of those unicorns with rainbows shooting out its butt...
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Very well said, kentuck!
Our democracy is at a crisis level. We really have enough on our plates here at home without engaging in foreign entanglements.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)Most people would agree that we are just a bit heavy in foreign entanglements...
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Martin Eden
(12,863 posts)The American people are bitterly divided because the Powers That Be want it that way.
The polarization of the electorate is not a natural divide resulting from conflicting interests. The progressives/liberals in this forum are for the most part in the same economic boat as the average teabagger. We have a lot more in common with each other (in terms of how we're effected by policies legislated in Washington) than either side has with the oligarchs who own most of the country including the politicians and the increasingly consolidated media.
Teabaggers are certainly among the Americans who sense that something is terribly wrong and are desperate for change. But they have been manipulated into placing the blame anywhere other than where it belongs -- the Oligarchs who've stolen just about everything including The American Dream. The rightwing propaganda noise machine points the finger at gays, blacks, muslims, atheists, liberals, labor unions, and the poor (even though many teabaggers are poor and take govmint assistance). They've been told their religion and their flag are under assault by folks who aren't like them, so they keep voting for the snake oil salesmen who keep reinforcing the message and ideology that's been drummed into their heads by Faux news and talk radio.
Until the citizens who consistently vote against their own economic interests wake up or die off, the American people will remain a House Divided and we will not be able to stand and work together.
Our best hope lies in youth. Mentor them, and get them involved!
kentuck
(111,079 posts)WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)It is time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.
Then Bernie will win.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)You'll receive her new book,
"It takes a village to raise a child on Wall Street." (*)
(*) shipping and handling fees extra, some restrictions and blackout periods apply, some side effects include moral hazard, job loss, injustice, war and disparity. Seek guidance from your IRS agent before undertaking this or any other tax deductible payment in exchange for political influence.
smiley
(1,432 posts)great post.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)many of them in need are indoctrinated by the media and the GOP politicians.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)That's what happens when we listen to what they say during campaigns and fail to look at what they have actually done.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)last time around and will no longer bother to vote. I know, I'm a downer. Someone had to be.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)You people have had it too good, for too long. Time to tear off the band aid.
Regards,
TWM
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)The people are starving for Bernie's message.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)to the contrary, if you look at the results of the mid-terms. I'm not convinced many Americans would know change if it bit them on the butt,