Bernie voted against Brady Bill and is very Pro-Israel

[MaggieD]

So, what do his supporters have to say about that? Or is that just inconvenient for liberals? I, personally, have concerns about both. However, I know there is no perfect candidate.

Should we bash on him day in and day out for these two issues? Seems HRC gets bashed because Bill passed NAFTA. Should we harp on this regarding Bernie like we harp on HRC about Bill's politics?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

1. God no, we should NEVER bash ANY democrat given our situation with a group

of insane fucks on the other side.

Criticize and question, yes.

But we can deal with the cons in our party when we get rid of the insane assholes trying to destroy all life on the planet

[MaggieD]

75. I agree

I hope people here who ostensibly support the Democratic Party stop making obnoxious claims about HRC that bear no relation to reality. But of course they won't.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. I don't know about the Brady Bill

but I've known for quite some time that he's as bad on Israel as basically every other Democrat and Republican out there.

Feel free to 'bash' him on whatever you want.

[NYC_SKP]

61. I love the man. He supports regular people, reasonable gun control, no problemo. nt

[Aerows]

101. We've already had this conversation in another thread

He's against the people that rob you with an ink pen, and they have done far more harm than the gun toting variety!



I'm with Bernie all the way, my friend!

[NYC_SKP]

102. Like you, I like solid values that respect future generations and...

...I love writing with a good fountain pen.

I have a collection, some Parkers and the like.

Wonderful things!

[Aerows]

106. I know I'm probably boring

But I love doing the Sudoku puzzle in the paper with my fountain pen before I start the full day .

I gave up coffee two years ago, and now I've given up cigarettes. I am not in anyway going to give up on my Sudoku puzzles. They ground me in their simplicity and their complexity of logic.

[NYC_SKP]

108. Congrats on quitting things.

I quit cigs in 2010, but still drink coffee.

I suck at sudoku but respect the form and the fact that it's not about math, it's about arrangements.

My friend was working a book of them with different levels of dificulty: easy, moderate, hard, and diabolical!

[Jackpine Radical]

126. I just passed the anniversary of the end of my own smoking habit.

May 1, 1984 was the first smoke-free day of my adult life.

[haikugal]

109. I don't know why he voted the way he did, does anyone have information about it?

Has he expressed his reasoning somewhere? I am not surprised he supports Israel but to be honest that could mean anything. Does he support the Idea of Israel but not their hard right actions? I will have to learn more before I have an opinion.

Bernie has very good positions and I'd like to hear his side of things.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

123. He talked about it a bit on Chris Hayes last night.

Not in any great depth, but gave the sort of standard 'Vermont is a state of hunters, of sportsmen, and we have low gun violence. I realize that things are different in the large cities in other states.' Which sounds more like he sounds like it should be a state's rights sort of deal.

As to Israel, others have posted links to show he's disagreed with various actions Netanyahu and the IDF have taken, and isn't happy with settlements. I guess as far as support for Israel goes, he's not a hardcore 'let them do whatever they want' type, but still is willing to keep sending money over like the rest of Congress.

[haikugal]

128. Thanks Erich..

Your post is appreciated. I'd like to temper our support for Israel and find ways to regulate the guns...I'm not going to give him a black mark, I think he's sane and rational and can be talked to, possibly persuaded. I'm still for Bernie all the way.

[cali]

3. lol. and Hillary is even more pro-Israel, Mags.

I think you know what I say as I penned an OP about the gun control issue.

No shit there's no perfect candidate, Mags.

And bash away, Mags. That's what you've been doing since he announced.

I love the smell of hypocrisy on a May Eve.

[winter is coming]

5. Sometimes I'm cranky when I wake up from a long, long nap. n/t

[cali]

7. OK

[arcane1]

8. .

[HERVEPA]

12. Sleeper cell?

[cyberswede]

39. *snerk*

[Autumn]

50. I like ice cream.

any flavor except vanilla.

[bravenak]

77. I finally get it. Thanks. I was wondering.

[uponit7771]

116. +1

[MaggieD]

20. Nope

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4646394,00.html

[cali]

29. yeps. Hillary sees Israel through Netanyahu's eyes- Haaretz.

[MaggieD]

58. No she isn't

But I like that you refer to me as Mags. That's what my friends call me.

[haikugal]

110. Hi Cali...

Where is your post about the gun control issue? Thx..

[madfloridian]

4. He slammed Netanyahu's recent actions.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/03/03/bernie-sanders-slams-netanyahus-warmongering-speech-congress.html

Sen. Sanders (I-VT) saw right through Netanyahu’s language of seeking a better deal. Netanyahu was trying to push for a better deal. Netanyahu compared Iran to ISIS and North Korea. That is not a comparison that gets made if a leader believes in diplomacy.

Besides boosting his reelection chances back home, Netanyahu was trying to provoke military action against Iran. The Democrats who skipped the speech did not miss anything. Netanyahu’s remarks could have been delivered by Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, or any number of a variety of Republican neocons. There was nothing in his speech that the American people didn’t hear thousands of times during the Bush administration.

Netanyahu tried to argue for war, and Bernie Sanders called him out on it

.

[m-lekktor]

10. glad to read this. thanks! nt

[yuiyoshida]

45. me too

glad to read this

[KoKo]

54. Bernie Sanders Becomes The First Senator To Boycott Netanyahu’s Speech To Congress

Sen. Bernie Sanders has joined the growing list of members of Congress who will be boycotting Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s speech before a joint session of Congress.

Snip of Bernie's statement on Not Attending Here: Quick Watch!

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/09/bernie-sanders-senator-boycott-netanyahus-speech-congress.html

[madfloridian]

70. Thanks for that.

[KoKo]

81. Glad to find it!

[arcane1]

6. And yet he is still the most liberal of the choices so far.

Doesn't that make him the "lesser of two evils" in the primary?

[beam me up scottie]

9. I like his hair.

Oh, you wanted serious discussion?

You'll have to do better than that.

[Scootaloo]

11. He can be wrong about some things and still be the best option.

[MaggieD]

69. Absolutely!

Same as some people think about HRC.

[Aerows]

103. I've never woken up in the morning

and completed a day without being wrong about something.

Not that I'm proud of it, I just know that fallibility is part of the human condition.

He's not perfect, and I can forgive him for that because of all of the things he strives to do and succeeds at getting right.

Go Bernie!

[geek tragedy]

13. Supporting Israel is regrettably a non-negotiable position when it comes to DC.

All but a very, very few have to pucker up and kiss the ass of a foreign power halfway around the world, no matter how racist or belligerent it is.

Clinton will pander hard on Israel as well.

[oberliner]

27. Why do they have to "pucker up and kiss the ass of a foreign power halfway around the world"?

That makes no sense.

[geek tragedy]

28. Ask Shelly Adelson nt

[oberliner]

35. He's a Republican

His money is going towards defeating Democrats.

[geek tragedy]

37. And Republicans who fail to kiss Israel's ass nt

[oberliner]

40. Other asses can be kissed to get other donor's money

Tom Steyer, for instance - a liberal who doesn't give a crap about Israel. $73 million in campaign donations from him in 2014 alone.

[geek tragedy]

51. Tell you what:

Take all of the money donated to politicians or spent on lobbying by pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel interests and subtract from that figure all money donated to politicians or spent on lobbying by pro-Israel interests.

Positive or negative number? No playing dumb.

[oberliner]

56. OK

Definitely more money donated on the pro-Israel side than the anti-Israel side no question.

However, take any candidate - look at the total amount donated to their campaign and you will find those numbers dominated by Law Firms, Retired, Real Estate, Security & Investment, Defense, major universities, and on and on. The amount that is related to pro-Israel groups is minuscule in the big picture (and sometimes zero).

Check out the data at Open Secrets for the candidate of your choice and I think you will find that this is the case.

[geek tragedy]

60. What about pro-Israel individuals? nt

[oberliner]

71. Tom Steyer (an individual) contributed $75 million in 2014

Israel is not an issue that is relevant to him. He contributed more than the next five people combined.

Another major contributor to Democrats was George Soros and I think it is fair to say that he is more on the pro-Palestinian than the pro-Israel side of that debate.

Edit to add: Soros gave just under $4 million which was around the same amount as Adelson (whose money all went to Republicans).

[geek tragedy]

76. How about contributions to state and national parties?

Take, as but one example, Haim Saban:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haim_Saban#Political_views_and_fundraising

For every billionaire, there are hundreds if not thousands of millionaires.

[oberliner]

84. There are lots of rich people contributing money

If you pander to their pet causes, it is likely they will give you money. Some of those rich people have "pro-Israel" as their pet cause. Many more do not. I am arguing that you can get a ton of money from a lot of people who have nothing to do with that cause. More than enough to get yourself elected as many have. Personally, I think this whole giving unlimited amounts of money thing is ridiculous and that we need some real campaign finance reform but that's another topic, I guess. (Maybe one we can both agree on, though?)

[geek tragedy]

86. I asked that you not play dumb:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6632921

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/jews-money-and-2012/

[oberliner]

92. Pretty sure that article supports the point I am making

There is this paragraph for instance:

Although some Jewish PACs actively support candidates friendly to Israel and oppose those who are not, there are few credible examples of “Jewish money” sinking anti-Israel politicians. Some dissenters from the pro-Israel consensus, such as the late Sen. Charles Percy of Illinois or former Rep. Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, were alleged to be crushed by Jewish donations that went instead to their opponents. Such accounts, however, tend to ignore that the candidates were already deeply unpopular and likely to lose, no matter their views on Israel. Like the myth of the Israel Lobby itself, the notion of the undue influence of pro-Israel donations is a convenient explanatory tool for those who cannot accept that most Americans back the alliance. What critics of the Jewish state usually misunderstand is that politicians who make a point of bashing Israel are, in most instances, contradicting the opinions of their constituents, not just a few big Jewish donors.

[geek tragedy]

94. That 'analysis' is from a Neocon writer, so grain of salt.

Very few Democrats have been punished or lost under such circumstances because very, very few Congressional Democrats adopt a critical stance towards Israel.

[oberliner]

119. Then why did you provide the link?

I only cited it because you linked to it in your post.

[okaawhatever]

100. Please Adelson spent over $200 million. He acknowledges $150 million. Most of it went probably

went to PACS. His wife is a physician and she owns some drug rehab clinics. I think a $25 million dollar donation went through that clinic.

[oberliner]

118. No he didn't

Here is the Top 10 for 2014 (Adelson is 9th, Koch is 10th)

1 Steyer, Thomas & F. & Kathryn Ann
Fahr LLC/Tom Steyer
San Francisco, CA $75,424,834 $75,422,334 $0 100% 0%
2 Bloomberg, Michael R.
City of New York, NY
New York, NY $28,549,392 $10,527,600 $515,200 95% 5%
3 Singer, Paul
Elliott Management
New York, NY $11,518,474 $0 $11,516,974 0% 100%
4 Mercer, Robert L. & Diana
Renaissance Technologies
East Setauket, NY $9,676,399 $0 $9,666,399 0% 100%
5 Eychaner, Fred
Newsweb Corp
Chicago, IL $9,669,400 $9,264,400 $250,000 97% 3%
6 Ricketts, John J. & Marlene M.
TD Ameritrade
Omaha, NE $8,987,721 $0 $8,987,721 0% 100%
7 Simons, James H. & Marilyn H.
Renaissance Technologies/Simons Fdtn
New York, NY $8,257,700 $8,224,700 $7,800 100% 0%
8 Uihlein, Richard & Elizabeth
Uline Inc
Lake Forest, IL $6,094,650 $0 $6,064,150 0% 100%
9 Adelson, Sheldon G. & Miriam O.
Las Vegas Sands/Adelson Drug Clinic
Las Vegas, NV $6,059,236 $0 $6,029,636 0% 100%
10 Koch, Charles G. & Elizabeth B.
Koch Industries
Wichita, KS

https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topindivs.php

[okaawhatever]

133. That is only the declared money. it doesn't include PAC money & other contributions.

While public records show billionaire casino mogul Sheldon Adelson and his wife Miriam gave over $53 million to pro-GOP super PACs in the 2012 campaign, he gave about $100 million more to secretive 501(c)(4) groups that do not disclose donors, according to a Huffington Post report. And now, Adelson is reportedly attempting to leverage his massive pro-GOP investment to spur House Republicans to pass legislation that would help his company.

SNIP

Adelson vowed in April to keep the bulk of his future political spending undisclosed, because he believed the media’s use of the phrase “casino mogul” when reporting on his donations was “not helpful to the person” he was trying to elect. The voters proved him correct on that: nearly all of his favored candidates lost on election day.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/03/1270561/report-billionaire-casino-mogul-sheldon-adelson-spent-nearly-150-million-on-2012-campaign/

[betterdemsonly]

74. He opposed the Iraq war and supports peace negotiations with Iran.

Opposed arming socalled Syrian moderates. That is an improvement over Hillary's position, and definitely a departure from aipac orthodoxy. He could be better probably but not in DC terms. I vote for the most progressive candidate that can win. He's it. Pro-Israel has a wide spectrum of opinions.

[betterdemsonly]

52. Democrats have Hiam Saban to perform this role

also many others in the news and entertainment business who can influence public opinion.

[oberliner]

63. Many others in the news and entertainment business?

Not sure what you are referencing there.

My point is there are lots of wealthy donors with various causes of interest to them that a candidate is welcome to pander to in order to get their money if they so choose.

[geek tragedy]

82. Democrats get between 30 and 60% of their campaign donations

from the Jewish community.

This is not a theory concocted by David Duke or Mondoweiss. It is an undisputed, universally accepted fact that anyone who knows anything about American politics acknowledges.

From that virulently anti-Semitic rag Commentary

Estimates of the amount of money Jews have donated to American politicians, parties, and causes are even less accurate than the loose estimates of Jewish votes, but there is little question that the figure is staggering. It is impossible to determine precisely the grand total contributed to only presidential candidates by individual Jewish donors, but it may well be as much or more than one third of all Democratic money and a lesser though still impressive percentage of the funds raised by Republicans.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/jews-money-and-2012/

The Washington Post, years ago, put the figure at 60%.

DeLay has been the driving force in the Republican effort to capitalize on President Bush's strong support of Israel and his leadership in the war on terrorism to weaken Democratic support and financial backing from Jews.

"There are only a few key pillars left holding up the Democratic coalition, especially financial pillars, and if we can fracture one of them, they [Democrats] are going to go into 2004 in big trouble," a GOP strategist said.

In states such as Florida and New York, Jewish voters are a large enough percentage of voters to play a crucial role in election outcomes. In presidential elections, Democratic candidates depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money raised from private sources. Any significant reduction in the financial support will weaken Democratic candidates and the Democratic Party organizations.

http://www.stat.unc.edu/visitors/temp/NYT/Jcontrib.html

Yes, anti-Semites spin and exaggerate this dynamic. There are a lot of other factors behind each Jewish donor's decisions to donate--Israel not being the most important for most. There is no conspiracy. There are cultural and other forces driving the exaggerated affinity for Israel amongst our elites.

But, if you think this has no bearing on our policy toward Israel . . .

[MaggieD]

88. I like that Obama gives Israel....

.... The middle finger though. Aren't you? I will miss that when he's out of office.

[Reter]

95. Cynthia McKinney spoke out and look what they did to her

n/t

[840high]

97. She did herself in.

[Koinos]

14. Juan Cole on the Middle East Policy of Bernie Sanders

Here is a link to Juan Cole's account of Bernie Sanders' positions on the Middle East:

http://www.juancole.com/2015/04/president-bernie-sanders.html

[MaggieD]

17. I think Juan is soft peddling there

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/sanders-leftwing-economic

[cali]

19. lol. you realize that Hillary is more hard core, right?

She's been more outspokenly supportive- and that includes of Netanyahu.

I love the smell of hypocrisy on a May Eve.

[MaggieD]

72. Nope - not even close

You really don't seem to know your stuff when it comes to HRC.

[MADem]

105. I remember her catching shit for this.....

OMG, she KISSED Mrs. Arafat!! Oh, the HUGE manatee.....



I think she's been pretty nuanced. She knows that Israel is a major ally, our stationary aircraft carrier in the region if needs must, our buddy who will do Dirty Deeds Dirt Cheap when we can't touch some thing...but she also knows that killing kids wholesale in Palestine is wrong.

That said, Bernie is Jewish. He's going to have some empathy towards the "Jewish State." He is a member of a religious and cultural group that HItler tried to wipe from the face of the earth. He's in his seventies, and he's a lot closer to the horrors of Nazi Germany than people who only read about it in school books. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he is sympathetic, in fact, if he didn't have any empathy, people would wonder why not.

[TheKentuckian]

15. Good and so what? Like Hillary isn't a strong friend to Israel and only exceeded in warmongering to

McShame.

[MaggieD]

18. Nope

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4646394,00.html

[arcane1]

36. Do you have anything to say other than "nope"?

Like, perhaps, a quote or two to support your position? Your link seems to be decidedly pro-Israel.

[MaggieD]

59. quotes aplenty in the link

[TheKentuckian]

44. Yeah, that is what I said. How do you think that negates my statement?

I think staunch ally wouldn't be out of turn to say about Clinton and I'll raise the ante and further will state she would forcefully concur.

Statements from your own linked article like "We are here to show solidarity and support for Israel. We will stand with Israel, because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones." and "Protecting Israel’s future is not simply a question of policy for me, it’s personal. I’ve talked with some of you I’ve know for a while about the first trip Bill and I took to Israel so many years ago, shortly after our daughter was born." or "And I have seen the great accomplishments," Clinton added; "the pride of the desert blooming and the start-ups springing up. I’ve held hands with the victims of terrorism in their hospital rooms, visited a bombed-out pizzeria in Jerusalem, walked along the fence near Gilo. And I know with all my heart how important it is that our relationship go from strength to strength."

Or how about -
In an interview with the Atlantic published in 2014, Clinton offered strong support for Israel and for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, after Israel drew international condemnation for the deaths of Palestinian non-combatants in Gaza and the destruction of thousands of homes during its month of war with the Islamist movement Hamas.

"I think Israel did what it had to do to respond to Hamas rockets. Israel has a right to defend itself. The steps Hamas has taken to embed rockets and command and control facilities and tunnel entrances in civilian areas, this makes a response by Israel difficult," Clinton said.

Maybe stop spiking the football on the two yard line to show of your new touchdown celebration dance and read what you link to without comment.

[MaggieD]

66. Nah, you missed the period....

When BiBi turned full wingnut in 2009.

Here is what you avoided reading:


Nonetheless, Clinton made it clear in 2009 that a halt on settlement construction in the West Bank was not a pre-condition for the resumption of talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

"There has never been a pre-condition. It's always been an issue within the negotiations," Clinton said about the settlements.

"I want to see both sides as soon as possible begin in negotiations," said Clinton. "Both president Obama and I are committed to a comprehensive peace agreement."

In 2011, Clinton made comments showing a shift on her stance on Israel's capital when she was senator, warning against American action towards recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, saying that it would jeopardize the peace process.

Also in 2011, Clinton said that the path to a two-state solution creating a Palestinian state beside Israel runs through Jerusalem and Ramallah, not through New York - a refrence to the Palestinian's attempt to attain statehood through the UN.

Speaking at a news conference at the time, Clinton repeated the US view that the Palestinians should not seek full membership in the United Nations and instead should resume direct talks with the Israelis.

"We need an environment that is conducive to direct negotiations," she said. "We all know that no matter what happens or doesn't happen at the UN the next day is not going to result the kind of changes the United States wishes to see that will move us toward the two state solution that we strongly support.

In 2012, the then Secretary of State reiterated her stance that the Palestinian Authority "took a step in wrong direction" with its UN bid, but also called on Israel to make efforts to advance peace talks.

"America supports the goal of a Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security with Israel but this week's vote at the UN won't bring the Palestinians any closer to that goal," she said. "President Abbas took a step in the wrong direction this week . We opposed his resolution. But we also need to see that the PA in the west bank still offers the most compelling alternative to rockets and resistance.

"Israel needs to help those committed to peace," she added, referring to Abbas and then-Palestinian prime minister Salam Fayyad, whom she lauded for their achievements in overhauling institutions in the PA and cooperating with Israel over security."

[TheKentuckian]

80. and again how does any of that make her not pro Israel and how does 2009 trump 2014?

[MaggieD]

83. Bernie is pro Israel

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2014/08/20/answering-question-on-israel-bernie-sanders-tells-townhall-hecklers-to-shut-up/

[Autumn]

16. Is there a politician in our government that

isn't very Pro-Israel? I agree with Bernie on many of the issues that count to me. I can afford to disagree with him on a few. Bash whomever you chose. It won't hurt my feelings at all.

[truebluegreen]

21. So what?

I never expect to agree with ANY candidate on EveryThing. But then, I don't do personality cults.

[cali]

22. Hillary on Israel: (just for you)

http://tabletmag.com/scroll/179536/watch-hillary-clinton-vs-jon-stewart-on-gaza

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/everything-clinton-republicans

Israel’s new lawyer: Hillary Clinton
She sees the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through Bibi’s eyes, which could be the reason she gets so much wrong.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.610007

There's only a million articles out there about how Hllary is uber pro Israel. Did she offer one word of criticism about Gaza? NOPE. Bernie did.

[whistler162]

23. And he is a big fat poopiehead!

[Puzzledtraveller]

24. I'm fine with that.

I think he would be a great president.

[Eleanors38]

25. Whatdaya expect from a Catholic hog hunter?

[Trajan]

26. These posts are quite informative

I get to see who the hard core democratic haters are ...

[Marrah_G]

30. I think he will make a great president

I plan to vote for him in the primary.

[CanadaexPat]

31. Not pro-Israel enough to bomb Iran,

I'd wager. I don't think that's true of all those running for the Dem nomination.

[cali]

32. Hillary "She sees the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict through Bibi's eyes" Haaretz

[MaggieD]

57. No she doesn't

She has been a strong supporter of a Palestinian state for a very long time.

[cali]

121. Yes, she does. She's been very supportive of Bibi. And all your disingenuous

stuff to the contrary isn't persuasive.

Guess what? Bernie has been supportive of a Palestinian state for longer than Hillary. And he didn't support like she did, moving the capital to Jerusalem. She supported that for years.



Making stuff up wildly. Again.

[MH1]

33. Being correct on H1B trumps those issues for me.

So far Bernie is winning this round on DU, for me.

[Jefferson23]

34. Yes, he did and yes he is. He is also the only candidate who will fight to over turn CU and

additionally fight for public funded elections. That is the fight that must be undertaken
until we win in order to have a thriving democracy.

We have had money in politics for so long it may be difficult for some Americans
to imagine it eventually wiped out.

[sendero]

38. Bash away...

..... I'd prefer Bernie over HRC about 20 to 1.

[WDIM]

41. HRC is very pro isreal as well.

But Bernie is not for military intervention around the globe and voted against the Iraq war.

[MaggieD]

67. Nah, she had long advocated a Palestinian state

That's just a fact.

[madfloridian]

42. Sanders NOT pro-Netanyahu at all.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/03/03/bernie-sanders-slams-netanyahus-warmongering-speech-congress.html

[TM99]

43. Bash away!

I have no problem with his record on gun control. Like myself, he comes from a state that supports the NRA, gun ownership, hunting, etc. I expect him to be supportive of those he represents. He has been supportive of modest gun control, and he has voted against extreme measures like PLCAA.

Now, on Israel, there is a not a politician in DC that I think would ever go against Israel, or at least very few. That is a problem that all share including Clinton. I do know that he has been reasonable in his support for Israel as he is anti-war. Clinton will not be so if elected.

HRC gets criticized because of NAFTA because she supports it as well and is an instrumental architect of the current TPP. I will criticize her forever on that whether she wins or loses.

Criticize him all you want on issues that are important to you, but maybe next time, put a bit more meat in your OP. Produce some stats, argue your position, and offer how Clinton will actually be in different in a substantive way.

I really bet you can't, hence, this little whine about bashing and a lack of 'fairness'.

[Octafish]

46. Really.

[Rex]

48. Gots to be scared of that Socialist fella! Yep yep!

Darn them and their democracies!

[okaawhatever]

113. A picture of the Secretary of State with one of the leaders she works with? Not to mention, she's

smmiillllling. OMG. Your proof is overwhelming, I'll alert SCOTUS.

[Rex]

47. Holyshit and he is not a billionaire after 30 years in Congress? What is wrong with him?

That's not at ALL how a 'career politician' behaves!

[MaggieD]

87. But still, at $175k per year

.... For decades he should have more than $300-500k saved up. Don't you think? That concerns me too. I guess he figures he is 73 and will get s big pension, so he doesn't need to save? I wonder where he spends it all though.

[Rex]

91. LOL! I LOVE how you danced around that one!

You make this primary run fun!

[MaggieD]

93. You don't wonder that?

If you don't, I don't think you're using critical thinking skills. No offense.

I mean I know folks like that. They make good money but they don't save much of anything. Makes me shake my head. I don't know - maybe he donates a lot of money. But I wonder.

[truebluegreen]

124. ...

[cali]

130. bwahaha

No. He maintains two residences. DC is not an inexpensive city.

[MaggieD]

131. Oh come on

At that salary you should be able have 2 houses paid off at age 73.

[ileus]

49. I heard he also kill kittens, and eats meat.

(not kitten meat of course)

[Throd]

53. He turned me into a newt.

I got better.

[NYC_SKP]

65. I grew two inches.

My girlfriend and I are very excited about a Bernie Sanders presidency!

[DCBob]

55. No Democrat should bash another Democrat.

[bigwillq]

62. If you have concerns, don't vote for him.

Should we bash on him day in and day out for these two issues? YES
Should we harp on this regarding Bernie like we harp on HRC about Bill's politics? YES

[aikoaiko]

64. Fine with me. What next?

[Raine1967]

68. Who is *we* and what is your personal opinion?

I ask because I really don't know where you stand — and I am not sure what you hope to accomplish with this post.

Most Clinton supporters on DU probably won't be generally appreciative of this, and I am fairly sure Sanders supporters aren't going to like it either — unless you clarify.

and if you do, that would be really nice.

[LiberalElite]

73. I'm voting for him anyway but you get an E for Effort nt

[m-lekktor]

78. on edit :nevermind.

it's too easy.

[ileus]

79. Pro Gun and Pro Israel...he can't be a democrat...impossible.

As a progressives we're supposed to hate both.






^I that what you're getting at???

[MaggieD]

85. I got to it in the original post

There is no such think has the perfect candidate.

I will say, one of the things I like about Obama the best is his frequent middle finger to Israel.

[bigwillq]

89. Are you related to MaggieQ?

[MaggieD]

90. Not that I know of....

Keep in mind relations are usually indicated by last name rather than first name.

[karynnj]

96. Bernie was the first senator to say he would boycott Netanyahu

[MaggieD]

98. But if I was like an HRC basher....

I'd just say that's because he knew he was going to run and is pandering to the extreme left. Maybe he remembers this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2014/08/20/answering-question-on-israel-bernie-sanders-tells-townhall-hecklers-to-shut-up/

[karynnj]

99. except that was considered not politically a good think

To do.

[okaawhatever]

114. Good. I'm not anti-Israel, but I'm seriously anti-Netanyahu. Ditto his crowd of Cheneys & Wolfowitz'

I"ve read that people don't expect his new coalition to last, so maybe a more moderate coaltion will take its place.

[Recursion]

104. It's hard to be strong on gun control in Vermont, though the NRA gives him an F

Though honestly I can't see how they got an F out of his voting record:

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm

Yes on banning high-capacity magazines (personally not an issue I care about; mass shootings are not my worry when I think about gun control)
Yes on allowing firearms to be checked on Amtrak trains (lot of hunters in vermont who travel by train, I would imagine)
Yes on prohibiting lawsuits against gunmakers (this vote bugs me since I think lawsuits over intentional design and marketing decisions are not a bad idea)
No on decreasing the handgun waiting period to 1 day

So from a gun rights/gun safety standpoint it seems like a mixed bag at best.

[MaggieD]

107. Kinda like it would be hard to....

Vote against The Iraq war when you represent the people attacked on 9/11 and the rethugs have been convincing the country with their lies about the connection between 9/11 and Iraq?

No perfect candidate.

[cali]

122. How do you know whether the majority of New Yorkers

supported it? Do post links proving that, Maggie.

[MaggieD]

125. That was easy

http://www.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war-against-iraq.aspx

[Agnosticsherbet]

127. I don't listen to the NRA, but I can read his his of voting.

Though his opposition to Gun Control may be Bernie serving the people of his state, it does not serve the entire nation.

I will compare his history of votes to other politicians applying for the job.
The candidate with the best history will have the advantage.

I am not a single policy voter. This is one policy.
As to Israel, I support Israel and oppose their choice in government.

[Puzzledtraveller]

111. and had boxes in his garage too?

[Rex]

112. Be scared of changing the status quo...GOT IT!

Be scared everyone! The lights and backdrop are old and full of holes...so BE SCARED!

[hedda_foil]

115. Boo! Evil Bernie's gonna get you!

Get thee behind me Bernie, and let me walk in the dazzling light that is Hilary.

[Omaha Steve]

117. First senator to decline attendance to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech Congress

[NYC_SKP]

120. I will bash any Democrat who walks into a campaign with an arrogant sense of entitlement.

I don't care who the fuck they are, if before the primary even begins there's an "inevitability" thing about them, I will fight them to the core.

She did this in 2008 and I sent money to Obama.

Lot's of it.

And this year it's exponentially worse.

Not just "no" to Hillary, fucking HELL NO!

[HappyMe]

129. Harp and bash all you want.

I'm still a Sanders supporter.

[MaggieD]

132. You think that's bashing?

Saying there are no perfect candidates is bashing Bernie? Oh my goodness, Sanders supporters have VERY delicate fee fees, don't they? LMAO.

[HappyMe]

134. Read your second paragraph.

You asked if bashing and harping should happen because poor, poor Hillary blah, blah.
You seem to have very delicate feelings also.

As I said in my post, bash away. You won't change my mind in the least.

[Vinca]

135. Bernie's a Jew . . . of course he's pro-Israel.

His job has also been representing his constituents - which he has done very well - and includes thousands of Vermont hunters. I don't agree with him re guns, but on just about everything else. Like the POTUS. I don't agree with him on trade, but I do agree with him on the majority of other things. I also agree with Hillary on the majority of things. What nudges me in Bernie's direction is his passion. He really, really cares about the masses. It's not an act.

[madville]

136. Makes me support him more

Vermont is an interesting pro-gun state. I recognize Israel's right to exist and defend itself from multiple countries who outright call for wiping their Jewish population out of existence.