One of the most principled and honest senators is "unelectable", why?

[Kurska]

Does actually giving a crap about the middle class or even *gasp* the poor make him unelectable?

Does taking a stand against our dangerous and stupid drug war make him unelectable?

Does refusing to play petty party politics and bend over backwards for bankers and wall street make him unelectable?

Does having a rock-solid record on civil rights and LGBT rights make him unelectable (Voted against DOMA in 1996)?

If these things are unelectable and you are a progressive, you ought to be FIGHTING to make them electable.

I don't have a problem with Hillary, but Bernie Sanders is who represents me best.

I'll fight for you Bernie, give em hell.

On edit

So far I've heard "He is old" and "Americans are too stupid".

Anyone have an actual policy position they would like to bring up?

[neverforget]

1. I can't wait for the answers.

[Kurska]

26. Those answers never actually contain a policy position

Maybe that'll change. Doubt it.

[neverforget]

68. So far he lacks charisma, he's old, he has no money

and he's unelectable because of his socialist Democrat label.

Not too many specifics on policy yet.

[sulphurdunn]

139. Hilary Clinton is old and lacks charisma.

[WhiteTara]

182. He would be 82/83 years old when he got into office

and 86/87 at the end of his first term, if the stress didn't kill him before. Yikes. Let's hope he chooses a good veep.

[LovingA2andMI]

185. WRONG!!

Bernie Sanders would be:

September 8, 1941 (age 73), Brooklyn, New York City, NY

75 Years old when elected into office. Where does this 82 year old thing arises? Oh, I know. The Hillarynites (like she is not OLD herself):

October 26, 1947 (age 67), Chicago, IL

Hillary would be 69 years old upon taken office.

So, me thinks folks need to leave Bernie's age, alone...

[maddiemom]

214. "Old" leaders have never bothered most European nations. And 69 would not be considered "old"

these days,either.

[WhiteTara]

230. Thanks for the correction.

I must have misunderstood his age and gave him another 10 years! Thanks for making him younger.

[LovingA2andMI]

237. No Problem....

[bvar22]

241. Ohhh! Ohhh! Make me younger too!!!!

On second thought......I'll hold these cards.

[MoonchildCA]

204. Yes!

[cheapdate]

133. Because Americans are shallow, fearful, feckless, fickle, incurious, uninformed,

easily misled, irrational, disengaged, short-sighted, etc., etc. There are reasons why the polling finds that Sanders would have an uphill climb. Perception and other insubstantial concerns matter far more than policy in American elections.

It might be a difficult pill to swallow, but "he's old", "his hair/accent/suit is funny", and "wasn't he a communist?" are, in fact, the kinds of criteria upon which a great many Americans base their voting decisions.

[Orrex]

157. On the bright side, we've always been that way

And we will be for the foreseeable future, barring some drastic and wholly unprecedented shift in public consciousness.

It's also the standard punching bag when complaining about this or that favorite unelectable candidate.

The truly difficult pill to swallow is that this is the way of things, and it's not unreasonable to doubt a candidate who can't work with this reality.

[cheapdate]

173. True.

I'm certainly not trying to make an argument in support of hopelessness or futility. But optimism and good policy alone don't necessarily win elections. I'm looking forward to seeing Sanders campaign.

[Enthusiast]

195. Easily misled.

[rhett o rick]

244. I think the plan is that if HRC keeps quiet, she won't be apt to stumble and can

waltz into the WH. Just sayin'.

[DCBob]

2. He lacks charisma.

Sorry but that's what it takes to get people off their ass to vote.

[Kurska]

5. He is fiery and passionate

He drips "I actually care"

Couldn't disagree with you more. He is going to kill it during the debates.

Watch this, he is clear and effective communicator.

[DCBob]

11. For a certain group you may be right..

But for mainstream America that has an attention span of about 3 seconds I doubt he will connect.

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Of course, you know mainstream America, DCBob?

[DCBob]

21. Doesnt take a genius.

[MrMickeysMom]

23. No, it doesn't...

It just takes someone who gets outside of DC, Bob.

[DCBob]

28. I have lived in Illinois, Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Florida, Maryland and the Philippines.

Never actually lived in DC.. just live and work in DC metro area.

[MrMickeysMom]

32. Like I said...

It takes someone who doesn't live in DC, Bob.

You don't have to be born in a small radius in order to end up in one.

[DCBob]

35. I pride myself in having a world vision.

I don't vote for my personal interests or local interests. I vote for what I think is best for the world.

[MrMickeysMom]

45. "I vote for what I think is best for the world"...

I'm sure you do….. from the MSA of Washington, DC…

[DCBob]

51. You have no idea.

Get lost.

[daleanime]

47. Which is 'charisma'?

[DCBob]

50. Simply keeping a Democrat in the WH.

Sanders would be a big risk.

[daleanime]

69. So it's not voting for what you believe....

it's voting for what you think is acceptable.



That's kind of sad.

[DCBob]

80. I vote for the candidate who has the best ideals and can also win.

Its nice to dream but this is America where large chunks of the electorate thinks President Obama is a muslim, evolution and global warming are fantasies, and the Federal Government should be overthrown.

[daleanime]

86. Like I said-acceptable,,,

I'm sorry if it makes you feel bad.

But even on those terms, if you think many of the people who won't vote for Bernie will vote for Hillary, then fantasies are more common then you would like to believe.

[DCBob]

91. LOL.. doesnt make me feel bad at all. Just not the correct word.

[Ken Burch]

114. And everyone who thinks that way hates HRC, too. n/t.

[nxylas]

218. And yet he still got elected

Twice.

[eloydude]

155. Actually, Bernie would be a major improvement to the Democratic Party, instead of the same old shit

we get motivated, excited, and ready to push the party to the left of center.

It's been stuck in right of center since 1992...

It's time to move it back to the left, and progressive issues has won in 2014, so Bernie is the progressive President who will win.

And Bernie is now a declared Democratic candidate per his FEC filing. and stands an excellent chance of being the mantle-bearer of the Democratic Party.

Hillary lacks any common sense. She's currently triangulating her next policy position...

[Dustlawyer]

227. Yes! We shouldn't be afraid to fight for what we believe in!

Hillary is the Wall Street choice, somehow I don't think she will do us many favors. Forget the "safe" vote at this point, we have too many serious problems to be able to afford to kick the can down the road on things like Climate Change, Education, renewable energy...
At what point should we stand up and fight for what we believe in?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

77. !

[Kurska]

22. Americans aren't as stupid as most people think.

I hold that as a deep belief.

[DCBob]

25. No.. they are stupider.

[Kurska]

29. B.S more Americans are more educated than ever

http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php

We're world leaders in science and technology. To say we're too stupid for good leadership is ridiculous.

[DCBob]

34. and more influenced by RW media than ever...

and simply don't take or have the time to learn about politics.

[MaggieD]

82. You've got that right

And the evidence is right here on DU. Hell, you have people quoting Townhall, Brietbart, and posting Fox News videos for gawd's sake in their fever to bash other democratic candidates.

Given that the right wing media has been able to co-opt "liberals" to spew their talking points it's a good sign that we're screwed.

[DCBob]

85. Isnt it sickening to see RW crap showing on DU to put down a Democratic candidate.

Its pathetic. I am losing interest in this site because of the overwhelming anti-Hillary crap here. I really don't much care if I get banned.

[MaggieD]

88. Stick around and push back

I plan to.

But yes, in all my years working for change within the political system I don't think I have ever seen such sickening crap by people that claim to be democrats. And frankly I wouldn't care which candidate they were bashing - it would still sicken me.

If this were MY site I would ban every last one of them. Fuck the clicks and ad money. They would be gone.

[DCBob]

92. Totally agree with your final comment.

[grasswire]

143. so much for free speech

noted

[MaggieD]

145. Your free speech here ends....

.... When the candidate is nominated. I'd just do it around the campaign clock. Your free speech right is not being violated. There are plenty of more appropriate places to bash Democrats, IMO.

[Fairgo]

174. My free speech ends when the candidate is nominated...

man, I missed that one in civics class.

[MaggieD]

176. As I said - HERE

Read the TOS.

[Fairgo]

188. Thanks for the clarification

You are correct of course, in the narrow context of this discussion and in the intent of your message. We must vote for the party unless, in the rare case "where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative..." I just wanted to make sure that even as I pledge to vote according to DU TOS in the general election, that I can still advocate for a platform that embraces the values of democracy. I have faith that our leaders respond to powerful messages -from the collective as well as the purse - and that any nominee can be influenced to do the good work of the people...but not if the forum is silenced by a gavel ending free speech full stop...even within this DU context. I like to think you meant the spirit of the TOS; that we need to be supportive of the candidate (and each other) in our expression of diversity, rather than silently acquiescent in any regression to the policy mean. I will support the candidate as the servant of the message, but I will never stop talking about what that message should be. Although DU controls decorum and content, it is always a balance with free speech, not its end. That was my minor point, flippantly put. I meant no disrespect by the way.

[madfloridian]

189. "If this were MY site I would ban every last one of them." Wow.

[MaggieD]

193. Wow what?

You think this is the appropriate place to repeat right wing talking points, post garbage from RWNJ sites slandering Democrats, and bash them all day, everyday? I don't.

I also notice Sanders supporters have no problem banning people from their various groups. No "wow" about that? Is this Freeperville now or what?

[madfloridian]

197. In all fairness, let's compare numbers banned from 3 candidates' groups.

From the Sanders' group only 6 so far.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1280

Here are the stats from the Obama group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1102

And from the Hillary Clinton group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1107

When someone posts from a rightwing site and I notice it, I mention it to them. No, I don't think such links should be used here.

But there is room for various opinions and viewpoints.

[Adrahil]

224. There is a difference between bashing and legitimate criticism

There is is also plan ole analysis.

I love Bernie and agree with him on most issues. But that doesn't stop me from expressing my own personal, considered opinion that he is not a very electable candidate. See elsewhere in this thread for my reasons.

[MaggieD]

55. +10000 to that

[doc03]

38. Then why do we have a Republican Congress, Supreme Court and I bet

a Republican President in 2016? I will vote for whoever gets nominated but Bernie is unelectable, no charisma, too old and he
will be labeled a socialist. I am 67 myself and don't think anyone my age is mentally or physically up to that job, look what we got with Reagan, Nancy was President the last 3 years. I don't think Hillary can make it either, way to much baggage there and she has an age
problem too. Democrats have put all their eggs in one very flawed basket of goods heaven help the working people in 2017.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

109. He can get the message over to the....

as they used to call them in the last presidential election - the Joe six packs. He looks like someone's dad or granddad.

[Enthusiast]

196. He would connect if the media wasn't so completely biased.

[maddiemom]

215. Which explains why Jeb would even consider running.

[DCBob]

217. Republican techniques for winning are different.

[winter is coming]

116. +1. He's the real deal.

Not scripted, not hyper-polished; he's just honestly speaking his mind. As if he is a person and you are a person and he's not trying to swindle you with fast talk.

[brooklynite]

235. Know who else was "Not scripted, not hyper-polished; honestly speaking his mind."? Ron Paul

These candidates are always appealing to a segment of their party's electorate, but somehow never manage to win.

[PADemD]

81. Hillary lacks charisma.

[DCBob]

83. She has something because she connects to large numbers of people.

More than enough to win.

[PADemD]

94. Meh

I won't be volunteering for her or giving her money.

[DCBob]

96. I am sure you will be missed.

On second thought.. Meh.

[JEB]

135. She has more than enough money.

Sad to say that may be enough to sway the vote.

[cascadiance]

209. Translated... She has far bigger marketing campaigns by the corporate media...

... that make her APPEAR more charismatic. This same corporate media who look to push her in to the White House so that she can do the bidding to their owners.

She herself isn't more charismatic than Bernie. Bernie when he hits the streets and talks to people in my book does far more to reach people than Hillary does.

[Ken Burch]

113. HRC has no charisma, as far as that goes n/t.

[treestar]

207. And he's positively unattractive

Americans are just that shallow. But you need someone who looks like their idea of a President.

[sabrina 1]

3. IF that is true, it means there has been a coup d'etat in this country and naturally anyone

who is a threat to them they will LIE about and attempt to destroy in any way they can.

The ONLY way to stop them is for tens of millions of Americans to simply overwhelm them, to stop buying the lies they tell, to tell them to 'go to hell' and yes, 'we mean exactly that', but his is NOT their country, they contribute very little to it other than harm.

And if they want to keep up the facade of a democracy, then they better stop making that ridiculous claim because in a democracy the people vote for who THEY WANT, not people chosen by a handful of people who want to be sure they have someone in power who will protect their interests.

[MaggieD]

12. No, there actually hasn't been a coup d'etat

We just have really stupid voters (and a shit ton of non-voters) in this country.

[sabrina 1]

31. I don't know any 'stupid' voters. I know ignorant voters mainly because those same

wealthy Corporations have taken over the media. I know people who are working two and three jobs to provide for their families, who don't have the time to do the research it would take to by pass the Corporate Media.

They are NOT stupid.

And when I talk to people who are dependent on 15 mins of 'news' from the Corporate media, I take the time to correct any propaganda they have absorbed. Such as, 'SS wont be there when I need it'. Did that just yesterday and it is amazing how easy it is to get people to listen and to think about what they are being led to believe.

And the younger generation is what gives me the most hope. Oddly they are the ones who seem to know the most about the corrupt system that has stolen their future. And that is because they do NOT depend on the Corporate media for 'news'.

It is arrogant to blame the voters, the working class, the poor, the disabled, the least among us for what is the fault of those who have taken over our media, our government, elected officials etc who have made a determined effort to suppress facts..

[CaliforniaPeggy]

65. This should be its own OP! ^^^^^^^^^ Thank you!

[Scuba]

112. Agree that this should be an OP.

[winter is coming]

121. I have never understood the contempt some politicos hold for voters.

Yeah, treat me like I'm something on the bottom of your shoe and then ask me for money. Who's the stupid one?

[sabrina 1]

187. Thank you, it's disgusting, elitist and doesn't belong on a Dem forum, or at least didn't just a few

years ago. Some of these political insiders are who, if I were to use that epithet which I try not to even for those who earn it, would be better described as such.

They have no clue what is really going on in this country. They are so out of touch with the country, so enamoured of being part of the club in DC that they actually do believe that voters are mere fodder, to be used only during election season.

And when they FAIL to win elections, they blame the voters. They don't even have enough, what is, intelligence, knowledge? Whatever, they are blind to their failure and must blame someone else, so they blame the 'stupid voters'.

It's not going to last, this 'you have nowhere else to go so just vote and stfu'. Enough of that. Now we have a candidate we can support. Who they will try to destroy so we need to be prepared for that.

[Enthusiast]

199. Wonderful post, sabrina 1.

I wish more would read it and understand what you said.

Never in human history has there been such a massive disinformation campaign directed at so many millions of people.

[PowerToThePeople]

223. Selection 2000. eom.

[99Forever]

4. Sen Sanders is infinately more electable the Hillary Goldman Sachs Clinton.

That's what makes him unelectable.


See how that works?

[MrMickeysMom]

7. Yes, I see...

[MaggieD]

8. Why do you think so?

Why is he more electable than her? Can you provide some specifics?

[imnew]

17. Not to butt in but they haven't stood on stage together yet

Bernie needs to play hard ball with Clinton

[MaggieD]

6. Oh come on....

Your post is cute, but I think everyone actually knows why he is a longshot:

1. He is 73 years old, and would be 75 by the time he took office.
2. He has spent 30 years labeling himself as a socialist, which is a dirty word in American politics
3. He won't raise the billion dollars it takes to win in a Citizen's United world.

That said, I would be happy to have him as president, with only a minor concern about item #1 above. But those are the reasons people think he is a longshot. That's just reality.

[Kurska]

9. Saint Ronald was a few days short of 70.

2. We need to fight to not make it a dirty word.
3. Elections are settled by people, not money.

[MaggieD]

13. He was 69

And he had Alzheimer's/dementia before he left office.

Good luck on the other two items.

[Kurska]

16. 69 years, 349 days

Ronald was clearly losing it before he was elected.

Since when is age a disqualification for office? The founders set a minimum age, not a maximum.

[MaggieD]

19. I'm talking about when he was running

And he had Alzheimer's dementia before he left office. If Bernie wins he will be 83 years old at the end of two terms. I think some people would be legitimately concerned about that. And like it or not, it will factor into some people's voting decisions.

[Kurska]

33. The young will love his positions and the old vote in droves

Thats a winning combination in my book. If republicans go after his age they will be attacking the most consistent electorate in the country, that will be a real winner.

[MaggieD]

48. I don't know if people will "attack" him

.... regarding his age. I guess we'll see. But I do know it's one of the things that consistently comes up when his name is mentioned. I just had a gathering here at my house last night (and I do not hang out with conservatives - at all), and just about everybody in the discussion mentioned it as a concern.

It's certainly not ideal in the minds of many voters. I think that and the socialist moniker and the money issue will be his biggest challenges. That's just my opinion, and the scuttlebutt that I've heard. Even my son, who is 22, and loves that he is a socialist has a concern about that. More than anything though, he is just tired of the presidency being the exclusive providence of men.

[Agschmid]

39. Remember when the founders were around the average life expectancy was

about 31 years.

[thesquanderer]

60. The Constitution requires a President to be at least 35.

I don't think they would have required that if they didn't expect most people to live past 31.

The "average" would have been lowered by childhood deaths, but those who survived to 20 probably more typically lived to 60.

[PeaceNikki]

66. Techniclly not true.

http://passionforthepast.blogspot.com/2011/08/average-life-expectancy-myth.html?m=1

The horrifically poor infant mortality skewed that data to appear to mean something it did not.

[Agschmid]

70. Yes I estimated...

But infant mortality should impact overall life expectancy, IMO.

And average is just that, an average.

[MaggieD]

84. No need to guess....

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age

[Agschmid]

126. What does this list have to do with the average life expectancy in the 1700's?

[MaggieD]

128. I'm talking about the age of presidents

All of the presidents and ages are listed.

[GeorgeGist]

177. But if you made it to adult ...

life expectancy was much longer.

[Agschmid]

184. Yes.

I was only stating the average.

[MrMickeysMom]

15. "… the reasons people think he is a longshot" ???

Which "people" are these?

Perhaps someone should give the American people the meaning of social Democrats. I'm sure "dirty word" works as a fear tactic, but basically, that is a bunch of bull-feathers, MaggieD.

How old are you to place value on physical and mental capabilities of a 75 year old?

While you're at it, I await an answer to the other response to your other interesting diddy.

[MaggieD]

30. Well a YouGov polls for one

39% in that poll said they would never consider voting for a socialist. That's quite an obstacle out of the gate.

How old am I? I am 54. I have a mother who is 80, and a father in law that is 81. Both are showing significant signs of dementia, which is perfectly normal for their age. I also worked with seniors for about a decade early in my career, and the bare facts are than many people tend to begin to exhibit signs in their late 70's. It's just a fact of life.

[MrMickeysMom]

44. Actually, most people do NOT exhibit signs as you say...

To be clear, the CDC classifies what is normal and abnormal to diseases of the aged…

Alzheimer’s disease usually occurs in individuals who are 60 years old and older. Starting at age 65, the risk of developing the disease doubles every five years. By age 85 years and older, between 25 and 50 percent of people will exhibit signs of Alzheimer’s disease.

But, to the point of who would vote for Bernie Sanders, you forgot to compare "socialists" to the percentages who would consider a vote for Sanders. Yes, there is a marked distinction with history to support why...

On November 6, 2012 election results show that Bernie Sanders (running as an Independent against Republican John MacGovern) showed that the democratic socialist Bernie Sanders (who regularly caucused with Democrats) won with 71% of the popular vote.

[MaggieD]

49. 50% is quite a lot

But I doubt most people are going to go the CDC to look up statistics before they cast a vote. So I think that perception will be an obstacle for him.

As to the rest, if he was running for the President of Vermont, I would be perfectly convinced he would win. But he is not.

Again, I wish him the best. Personally, I want the most liberal, BUT electable candidate we can get. If I am wrong and he is as electable as some here seem to believe that would be awesome. I like Bernie. I think a lot of his supporters are some of the nastiest people I have encountered in politics with the exception of rethugs. But I like Bernie.

[MrMickeysMom]

61. Really… you think that a lot of his supporters are some of the nastiest people?

Wow… you must have a good reason for saying that.

as much as 50% exhibiting signs of dementia, BTW, is not the same as most people in their 70's having it. The argument is a logical fallacy. We were not talking who checks out CDC data. You were inferring that Sanders had a pretty big chance of a brain disease. It's strange that a person would run for president of Vermont, isn't it? Yet, in a demographic divide such as we have with constant gerrymandering in the United States, please continue to watch this race. I believe for the same reasons he was very popular there, this is unfolding nation-wide.

I hope you meet more Bernie supporters as time flows on. I can't imagine I've gathered the same opinion on them, based on DU, but then again, I'm not taking polls with who's nasty. I'm simply standing up for what I've said and what I know.

[MaggieD]

67. I do think that, yes

I'm not sure how it's possible to deny that if one simply reads the threads here. Even this thread.

I understand the fact that he would be 75 by the time he took office, and 83 after two terms is not a concern to you. That's fine. But I don't think you will find the same is true for all voters.

[SamKnause]

89. My mother will be 91 in August.

She is showing ZERO signs of dementia.

It is not perfectly normal.

It is not a fact of life.

Everyone does not get dementia.

My mother still handles all of her business decisions;

investing, banking, paying bills, etc.

My mother still drives.

My mother still mows her yard.

My mother has a better memory than I do.

[MaggieD]

98. Well your mother is not....

.... the universe of elderly people. But since you brought it up, do you think your mother is up to the task of being president?

[SamKnause]

104. The elderly people you come in contact with

are not the universe of elderly people.

To compare someone who is 73 to someone who is 91

is ridiculous.

My mother would not have the physical endurance for such

a fast paced jet setting job.

She definitely has the mental capacity.

[MaggieD]

105. I didn't compare the two

.... You did. You're welcome to think his age doesn't matter. That's fine. I just think it's unrealistic not to think many voters will.

[marlakay]

200. But who are they asking?

I take yougov polls all the time and while they ask me general political questions i have never been asked anout Bernie or Hillary.

And i can tell you yougov words a lot of their questions forcing you to answer a certain way, i write them and complain everytime they do it.

[MaggieD]

202. Here you go....

https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/05/08/bernie-sanders-long-shot-even-among-liberals/

[marlakay]

232. They ask a bunch of times what you are politically

Republican, Democrat, Independent then ask strong one or liberal.

I always say strong democrat liberal, so they sure didn't ask me.

If they had I would have said Bernie. I think his name just isn't out there enough yet.

[1939]

43. Social Democrats versus Democratic Socialists

Social Democrats believe in social security, health care for all, full safety nets. living wage, etc. they believe in getting the wealthy and the corporations to pay for these things.

Democratic socialists believe in the government takeover of the means of production (i.e. confiscation of the corporations).

The first is salable to the public, the second touches the third rail..

[MrMickeysMom]

46. Welcome to DU...

Thank you for the better explanation.

[MaggieD]

52. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist....

... according to Bernie. He may be surprised to think you believe he is out to confiscate the corporations.

[1939]

122. Bernie may call himelf a Democratic Socialist

But I firmly believe he is a Social Democrat.

At most, i wouold think he favors government takeover of only a small segment of the economy (maybe investment banks?).

Most Social Democrats understand that they need the productive engine of capitalism to fund their social programs.

[MaggieD]

129. Okey dokey then

[Hiraeth]

198. yes. yes. yes.

[OhZone]

156. Yup - exactly!

" MaggieD (1,383 posts)
Oh come on....

Your post is cute, but I think everyone actually knows why he is a longshot:

1. He is 73 years old, and would be 75 by the time he took office.
2. He has spent 30 years labeling himself as a socialist, which is a dirty word in American politics
3. He won't raise the billion dollars it takes to win in a Citizen's United world.

That said, I would be happy to have him as president, with only a minor concern about item #1 above. But those are the reasons people think he is a longshot. That's just reality. "

Yup - all those, plus he needs to explain his path to victory. Hillary has a pretty clear path to victory.

BTW- My Facebook groups are not obsessing over Bernie as much as DU.

Instead I see posts like this -

"Republican Map Shrinking As Hillary Clinton Puts Red State Arizona In Play "
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05/09/republican-map-shrinking-hillary-clinton-puts-red-state-arizona-play.html

I bet Arizona WOULD NOT be in play with Sanders.

Oh well. I will remain practical and wait.

[Scootaloo]

10. Kurska, this is the second time this year we've agreed on something. I'm getting a little freaked!

So far I've seen the following things make him "unelectable"

- "Too far left" (despite probably being about on the same level as president Truman)
- "His hair is bad" (think of it as a serious shit Geiger counter)
- "He's Jewish" (Yes. Really.)
- "He's a Northeastern liberal senator" (popular one from Clinton supporters. You know, the liberal senator from New York)
- "His accent" (a more oblique way of saying "He's Jewish" for people who realize how bad "he's Jewish" actually sounds)
- "He's a socialist" (according to the Republicans, so is every democrat and some republicans.)
- "WAAARRRRGGGGLARGBLLLE!" (One poster's attempt to explain that she hates Bernie because he's not Bernice)
- "He's unelectable." (Circular arguments are circular.)
- "He won't raise enough money" (I did not know the presidency was decided by auction.)
- "he voted against the Brady Bill" (Finally, a policy opposition! A candidate can be wrong about something.)
- "He's not very charismatic" (he can kiss hands and shake babies as well as anyone else, guys!)
- "He's too old!" (Six years older than Clinton isn't exactly ancient...)
- "He's not enough of a hawk" (is this supposed to be a negative?)

These are just a few of the ludicrous things...

[MaggieD]

14. Some of those are ludicrious....

And some of them are very real obstacles. That's reality.

[hootinholler]

36. Which ones are your favorites?

I mean when you're reminding us that Bernie is unelectable.

Actually I see that entire list as minor obstacles, the most serious will be the money factor. That will be overcome by people power.

[MaggieD]

37. I already posted the things I think are obstacles

... in this thread. I guess you need to read the whole thread. It's not very long, so easy enough, right?

[hootinholler]

54. Oh, I see

You want a replay?

"We just have really stupid voters (and a shit ton of non-voters) in this country"

Ah, ok, but that's a disadvantage? The stoopud won't vote for Bernie but will vote for Hillary? Is that what you're saying? It's what you're implying. Dale Carnegie would be proud. Oh do you have any idea why there are so many non voters?

Your post is cute, but I think everyone actually knows why he is a longshot:

1. He is 73 years old, and would be 75 by the time he took office.

Well rebutted in thread.

2. He has spent 30 years labeling himself as a socialist, which is a dirty word in American politics

And wears the moniker proudly. This is a plus. Not only does Bernie claim the label, he can explain the label in plain language. It is a brave stance. Americans like brave stances.

3. He won't raise the billion dollars it takes to win in a Citizen's United world.

Yeah, he's kinda like that, he refuses to sell out to Wall St. Do you actually think that people won't remember that Wall St. fucked over so many homeowners with impugnity. You would prefer a candidate who would sell their influence for a few more hit ads?

That said, I would be happy to have him as president, with only a minor concern about item #1 above. But those are the reasons people think he is a longshot. That's just reality.

Based on your insistence on pointing out negatives I doubt your claim about being happy to have him as president.

Clearly if that's your reality, our realities differ.

[MaggieD]

58. Yes, our realities definitely differ

Perhaps you haven't looked outside of the DU bubble. I'm not saying that sarcastically, or too offend. And as I have said many, many times, I would vote for Bernie in a heartbeat. But I don't see how it helps anything to wear rose colored glasses about the obstacles. I'm sure he isn't.

I realize you disagree with me. And that's fine. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be nasty about it. But sadly, that's pretty much what Sander's supporters do. They do not represent him well, that is for sure.

[hootinholler]

72. I'm being nasty?

Accusing me of living in the DU bubble isn't? Even if you don't mean to offend, its kind of ad hominem won't you admit? Technically you already did by using a disclaimer.

If you would vote for Bernie, why do you take every opportunity to point out how unelectable he is? Then when someone points out your behavior is contrary to your rhetoric, you call them nasty.

[MaggieD]

76. This crap isn't nasty?

"You would prefer a candidate who would sell their influence for a few more hit ads?" And this: "Based on your insistence on pointing out negatives I doubt your claim about being happy to have him as president."

Yeah, that's nasty. And very typical of Sander's supporters here. Absolutely.

[hootinholler]

87. Admittedly I should have said Would you?

That's what I meant, I didn't intend for it to be a statement. However, it certainly is implied that the candidate who will raise $1B+ isn't getting that much money unencumbered.

As to the latter remark, I honestly do think you are being coy about being happy with Bernie as president. I certainly wasn't trying to be impolite. Nor was I trying to offend you, I'm trying to understand you.

Nice broad brush finish though, great touch.

[MaggieD]

93. Thanks

And no, I am not being coy about Bernie. I have said and will probably say a million more times in the primary season, I want the most liberal candidate that can be elected in the general. Period. I am not sure how many times I have to say it, but I will keep saying it. I am a liberal. I am not a moderate or conservative democrat, I am a liberal.

I am also a realist. And I am NOT an idealist. It is perfectly fine with me if you have high hopes. Don't stop believing. Fine with me.

That will not stop me from answering a post about why Bernie may be unelectable with what I see as realistic obstacles. For someone reason that offends Sanders supporters. No clue why, but it does.

Lastly, I don't think it's broad brush to say the nasty comments in your posts are typical of Sanders supporters. Look around.

[PosterChild]

127. MaggieD is spot on...

.... calling himself a socialist is a plus? LOL!

[Martin Eden]

24. His initials are BS

As long as we're on the subject of ludicrous reasons why the candidate with the best policy positions can't get elected, I thought I'd mention that one.

Believe in Bernie will be ridiculed as Believe in BS

[Scootaloo]

41. Better, or worse than candidate "Barack Hussein Obama"?

[Martin Eden]

106. You've got a point there

But the larger point is the absurdity of what passes for political discourse in this country.

[Scootaloo]

125. Yep, the political discourse in the US is absurd

Powered by "news" organizations that run 24-hour programming with expansive corporate sponsorship and no regulatory oversight.

I see no reason to back off from a candidate because idiots in the media will try to lampoon his initials.

[Martin Eden]

18. He's unelectable because we've been told he's unelectable ...

... and, of course, we believe what we're told.

[arcane1]

27. Teevee says he's unelectable. The same teevee that will receive BILLIONS in Super-PAC money.

I'm sure those two facts are mere coincidence.

[orpupilofnature57]

40. Americans young and old can't deny the reasons why, we Need Bernie .

We need to re-tool the way we elect people, and who and how those people can prove who they say they are, how have they ALWAYS voted, what did they say about the TPP BEFORE , how do they EAT and who from ?

[msongs]

42. your president says he (the senator) is wrong. is that a good enuff reason? nt

[Kurska]

59. I think you're confusing President with Emperor

I'm allowed to have different opinions than the President.

[Warpy]

53. Your subject line answered its own question

Presidents are elected to play ball with the power brokers. The power brokers are terrified of Sanders.

Look at what happened to Jimmy Carter, the last principled president. Neither party would deal with him.

[sufrommich]

56. It's not his policies that are the problem.

He's a self labeled democratic socialist in a country that is leery of socialism,that isn't going to change between now and 2016.

Probably even more important,he's running as a candidate for president representing a party he has never belonged to,and that isn't going to fly with most democratic primary voters.

[MaggieD]

62. Very true, IMO

[stonecutter357]

108. this^^^

[TheCowsCameHome]

110. this^^^ x 2

[Thinkingabout]

57. It will be up to Bernie and his staff to sell him.

I look at the experience and qualifications of the candidates. I want a well rounded candidate, one who shows ability to perform on many areas like a president. In my lifetime I have already lived through a president which I knew was not qualified, I dont want to live through another one.

I see some areas of weakness and it bothers me. On many issues Hillary and Bernie stand together, others it is a problem.

[CharlotteVale]

63. Because he can't be bought.

[JoePhilly]

64. You are going to have to explain how ...

... Bernie beats the GOP and their huge money machine to people who already believe Hillary can beat them.

You will need to get those people to be absolutely confident that he WILL beat the GOP's money machine.

And importantly, attacking those people who would happily vote for Hillary, or attacking Hillary herself, won't have the needed effect.

You and Bernie need to come up with the compelling math.

And you have until those early primaries to make the case, not only that he is a great guy, or that he could win, but that he absolutely will.

Obama did this. Bernie will have to do it da well.

Demanding other people to tell you why he can't win, is debating a moot point.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

71. Because it's Hillary's turn....

If you don't agree,...have a seat for reprogramming...

[MaggieD]

73. I knew it was only a matter of time....

Before the nasty Bernie supporters would post something nasty about HRC in this thread. Thanks for proving me right.

But seriously, if he doesn't win in the primary it will be because the party simply did not choose him over another candidate. That's democracy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

131. It's not up to the party.

[MaggieD]

132. Democratic primary voters....

.... Collectively select the party's candidate. That is what I mean by "the party."

[Spitfire of ATJ]

136. And many of the younger ones aren't crazy about going back to the 90s....

Many would prefer Warren over Hillary.

[MaggieD]

159. Warren is not running

[Spitfire of ATJ]

162. Would you like her to?

[MaggieD]

163. Absolutely

She'd be a shoo-in!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

165. I keep thinking she could be talked into it.

[MaggieD]

167. I did at first

But when she said, what do you want me to do? Put an exclamation point on it? (Or something close to that) I pretty much realized it was not happening this cycle.

[BrotherIvan]

158. After yesterday's performance

Your constant refrain of Bernie supporters being "nasty" is the height of hypocrisy. Perhaps people are just responding to you in the manner in which you address them.

[MaggieD]

160. No, they are nasty to everyone

.... It's not just me.

[BrotherIvan]

164. Take a step back and read the Bernie forum

Plenty of civil discussions about policy and the upcoming elections. Even disagreements. But no one is trying to convince anyone that they have the only clear view "reality" and that everyone should adopt theirs. That is the probably the single most condescending ploy that every Hillary supporter uses and it is nasty and infuriating to everyone else. And so, people respond in kind.

I find most discussions where people ask why someone supports Hillary as a candidate quickly devolves into sniping and "I don't care what you think!" and "You're not living in reality; I am." I have YET to hear an actual argument beyond "she can raise lots of money" and "she's the only one who can win." Not a single policy position that differentiates her from the other candidate. When there are so many positive things about Hillary, I often wonder why her supporters don't believe in those qualities enough to promote them.

I have been called smarmy and naive when I have put forth the reason why I support my candidate. I have been told by about 20 Hillboosters that I am not living in reality. None of that is turning me into a Clinton supporter BTW. I have also seen a lot of erroneous information on the part of Hillary supporters as well and they will NEVER backtrack when they are presented with facts.

And I will say it again, if you feel that people are not being kind to you, perhaps threads like yesterday's which was a bravado performance in terms of attacking other DUers with one line zingers meant to dismiss people's voices in order to get applause probably did win you favor within a very small group but may not have added to your credibility when it comes to being able to call out nastiness in others.

[MaggieD]

166. Take a step back....

In this thread and read the sub thread were MrMickey is being nasty to Bob. IOW words you don't even need to leave the thread.

And the crap they post about other democratic politicians is flat out sickening. IMHO.

[BrotherIvan]

168. So you think that was being nastier than you stating that anyone who doesn't agree

with your positions should be banned? Come on now. At least be able to take as much as you dish out.

[MaggieD]

169. My position on what?

Would I have a website dedicated to Democrats and allow people to post nasty shit about Democratic pols all day, every day? No. Same rule you're going to have to live with once the nominee is decided.

[BrotherIvan]

172. I don't make the rules and neither do you

This is a discussion site, not a fan site. People are discussing politics, policy and politicians. It is more than fair, it is healthy, to discuss a politician's record. Hillary thinks she can win with it. I have no doubt her Republican opponent will attack her a million times worse than anyone here on DU. There is a schism in the Democratic Party if you haven't noticed and people are angry that the party has abandoned traditional Democratic principles. If they wish to now also expect 100% fealty, they are going to lose a lot more people.

If you have a good argument, present the facts and then discuss them. If you expect DU to be an echo chamber and you want to bring out the banhammer, I would have you take a look one more time at this.

[MaggieD]

175. Oh please...

Sanders supporters aren't "discussing" anything here. Their only objective is to post BS smears about DEMOCRATIC pols. Stop trying to make it sound noble.

[BrotherIvan]

205. You win

[Enthusiast]

201. I didn't say a thing about her trustworthiness.

[still_one]

74. I don't know who is electable or not anymore. What I do believe that whoever the Democratic nominee

is, it will not be an easy path. As progressives we sometimes believe the country represent like minds because common sense says health care, social security, environment, women's rights should be a given. Problem is people vote against their own interests. With the billions of dollars that the Koch brothers and others will pour into this will mean they will dominate the airwaves, and those ads do not have to be truthful, so they can say anything they want

[MaggieD]

79. Unfortunately that is the reality

I think it's easy for folks to fool themselves that the opinions expressed at DU represent mainstream voters, but they really don't. That's why republicans control every branch of government except the presidency.

[Ed Suspicious]

190. You seem to think you have a monopoly on reality.

[MaggieD]

191. It's not just me :)

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2224

[pnwmom]

75. Because he has chosen to brand himself

as a "Democratic Socialist" instead of a Democrat, or an FDR Democrat. In the US, unlike in the US, the word "socialist" does not have positive associations for most voters.

[AgingAmerican]

78. There is only one answer

They have convinced themselves that the candidate is not right wing enough.

They have different ways of expressing this, but the underlying 'logic' is always the same. Not right wing enough.

In a day and age where 'right wing' has ruined and is ruining everything in this country, how could any sane person, let alone a Democrat, believe that more right wing is the cure?

[MohRokTah]

90. A Senator faces a single statewide election.

A president faces fifty.

[rock]

95. Because those who say "unelectable"

are trying a political trick, i.e. "lying". This early in the campaigning? No ballots cast yet? No debates? You'd have to be a idiot to believe them (unless, of course, they're psychic). I do admit that for the time being his chances are low.

[George II]

97. Kind of a narrow demand, isn't it? Practically speaking, does anyone here really think....

...that in today's political climate in the US a socialist can be elected?

[leftieNanner]

99. Gun Control

According to a post on Rachel Maddow's blog, he has voted a number of times against gun control. I plan to do more research on this one. By and large, I like his policy positions very much.

[on point]

100. He won't play puppet for the corrupt class, and they control who is elected

[IronLionZion]

101. What makes you think it's about policy positions?

The best way to make any candidate electable is to elect him. Get on it.

[Jack Rabbit]

102. Because the enemies of the people are against him, and they have the vote$ to stop him

You know, their kind of vote$.

[TheCowsCameHome]

103. A: The word "Socialist" does not fare well at the voting booth.

I love the guy, but that's his biggest single hurdle.

[ghostsinthemachine]

107. It's right there in the title: "principled and honest"

Therefore he won't take MONEY (the thing people will ALWAYS leave their principals and honesty behind for) from the corporations, so he will have to get small donations. And can't do that with all the PAC's and corporate monetary influence.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

111. He calls himself a socialist

The American public doesn't like socialists.

Now I could get in a long-winded explanation over minor policy differences I have with the good Senator, no doubt earning your enmity, but from a pragmatic point of view, none of that matters. Voters don't vote based on issues. They vote based on emotionalism and tribal identities. The fact that you don't understand that, I find to be endearingly naive. The fact that Sanders doesn't understand that is flat out inexcusable.

That is why he will never even come close to being President.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[winter is coming]

115. Remember the adage about how it's impossible to serve two masters?

The thing that makes Sanders "unelectable" is that he can't serve two masters and doesn't want to serve the "right" one.

[Jamastiene]

117. Because the center and right wing dictators that run the party say so.

That seems to be what it boils down to.

[BeanMusical]

181. +1 n/t

[BainsBane]

118. So vote for him

Who cares if the media or someone online declares a candidate more electable than others? I fail to see why it's even worth discussing. Vote how you like. Electability is determined through elections themselves. Not what the media says or even what a select group of people you already know support Sanders think.

Anyone have an actual policy position they would like to bring up?

Do you? For some reason this is what you decided you wanted to discuss rather than a policy position. There seems to be a lot of that going around. We must have had 100 threads on electability yet very few on policy. Oh, I did see one that was a list of opinions--not proposals--that Sanders held, most of which were supported by every other Democrat. I was told he was going to bring about income redistribution. How, fund food stamps, a position supported across the Democratic party, including by DLCers.

[whereisjustice]

119. It takes about $300,000 and an audience of millionaires before Hillary gets charismatic...

but when she does, she spins in circles and speaks in tongues.

[orpupilofnature57]

137. Cracked Actor .

[secondwind]

120. I'M IN THIS all the way with Bernie!

[WillyT]

123. I'm Going With "Americans Are Too Stupid"... The Best Person For The Job Could Be...

A one legged Jewish lesbian of Inuit descent.

But WE don't promote or vote for the Best Person For The Job...

We have "other' processes.

And particularly since the advent of the Television Age, we use superficial means to determine our Presidents.

Remember... the people who heard the Kennedy/Nixon debate on the radio, thought Nixon had won.



& Rec !!!

[aspirant]

124. How old are the Supreme Court justices

and do they have dementia too?

[Evergreen Emerald]

151. Well, that would explain alot! n/t

[wolfie001]

212. One of my heroes is Ginsburg.....

.....and she ain't no 'spring chicken'! Some of the others........

[ablamj]

130. TPTB

won't allow it.

[orpupilofnature57]

134. He's the only one who's willing to expose TPTB, hence

the only one who could Cure it, in the context of disease that causes people to facilitate, lie for, kill for and follow the misanthropes killing ,robbing and raping them because their TPTB .

[JEB]

140. Precisely the reason I will vote for Bernie Sanders.

[ablamj]

142. I'll vote for him too, but

if it begins to look like a possibility, TPTB will remove him from the equation.

[JEB]

144. We see the blatant attempts at marginalization

everywhere in the media, even right here on DU. Rarely are his stances on actual issues discussed, but a steady stream of negative innuendo.

[ablamj]

147. That's what they're doing now

and that will ramp up more and more. But if they see that's not working, more permanent "solutions" will be necessary. And at his age it doesn't even have to be small planes, a "heart attack" could do the job for them.

[orpupilofnature57]

148. That dismissive shit is a desperate diversion from a

Comprehensive Debate, something only he and his allies could participate in .

[LWolf]

138. He's not unelectable.

That's a term used to control the vote through fear.

Clearly Sanders can connect with voters, and he's been elected to numerous public offices, locally and nationally, so he's electable.

[orpupilofnature57]

141. +1000

[Jackpine Radical]

146. He has weird hair and is a SOSHULIST!!!1!

[orpupilofnature57]

149. But he looks honest .

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/presidents/franklin-d-roosevelt-the-man-who-conquered-fear-1417417.html&h=620&w=620&tbnid=wa9xuK9VKgk0SM:&zoom=1&tbnh=186&tbnw=186&usg=__gyAQYd-_drGGSXXuowib4prxgZ4=&docid=_9Rz-lSg-jQjuM&itg=1

[JEB]

150. Two more reasons to vote for him.

[ucrdem]

152. Probably the vision thing. Just say no is not a vision. nt

[orpupilofnature57]

211. Good one !

[BB_Smoke]

153. Bob Cesca lays out 5 solid obstacles

Of course, I don't expect his sound reasoning to put a dent in anyone's protective bubble of delusion.
http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2015/05/the-five-nearly-impossible-challenges-for-bernie-sanders-and-his-supporters.html

[MaggieD]

171. That article is spot on....

But if you mention #5 around here there would be a serious meltdown.

[steve2470]

210. "ongoing perfectionist freakout"

a memorable phrase

[bluegopher]

154. I love the guy. but...

I don't think there is any way in hell he can win the middle. Anything is possible, maybe record numbers of democrats come out to vote for him, but we all know that's extremely unlikely.

[arikara]

180. Even Alberta got fed up and went left

they were the most right wing province in Canada. They elected a conservative government for 44 years straight and overwhelmingly tossed them the other day. If Alberta can go left, anybody can.

[Ed Suspicious]

192. "but we all know"

"but we all know "


"but we all know "

[tclambert]

161. You answered your own question: He's principled and honest.

What cabal of billionaires would bankroll the campaign of a guy like that?

[StarzGuy]

170. Immigration

Living in a border state I continue to see how illegal aliens add to the crime in the state. Sorry, but that is true. Perhaps if Sanders would have a position that's for border security first then talk about reform. Illegals can't vote and those who are legal aren't necessarily for such comprehensive reform first before securing the border. Heck, either Sanders or Clinton just might pick up more white votes in Arizona if they had this position. I think Obamas policies have made things worse. Now, the taxpayers have to pay to house all the illegal kids. I'm generally on board with most of the progressive policies. This is one I disagree with.

[L0oniX]

178. Bernie likes the kitteh ...that's all I need to know!

[Enthusiast]

203. Me too. I understand that Bernie sleeps with three kittehs every night.

[blackspade]

179. He is so unelectable that I'm voting for him...

[aspirant]

183. Let's really energize the baby boomers

Tell them they are too old to participate in society and they should all quietly go to the nursing homes and play bingo until they pass on.

We may see millions volunteer for Bernie out of spite.

[lumberjack_jeff]

186. Y'all can vote for whomever the fuck you want. Me? Sanders. I know nothing about "electable"

And neither does anyone else. They only know who they are going to vote for.

[Enthusiast]

194. Principled and honest.

We watched the last guy betray us. And "our" guy before that. But they were not honest and they weren't principled. And that's just a fact.

[treestar]

206. It's because of the political positions of most of the people in the country

And he's extremely unattractive. Americans are shallow. And they aren't that far left.

[ibegurpard]

208. Because big money and Wall Street don't want him

Thus they create the "unelectable" narrative.

[beachbum bob]

213. history tells us any conadidate from the extreme wing of their party is not electable in

a general election for president....Bernie is a fine guy and speaks his mind but the rightwing would make toast of him and the majority of battleground states needed for any presidential candidate to win would be off the table and go to the GOP


thats the reality and many liberals, progressives have a hard time dealing with that. We saw the result in 2000 when many voted to give George W Bush the presidency when they supported Ralph Nader...

[donnasgirl]

216. I do not have any policy position to bring up

When it comes to Bernie Sanders, for me he already covers all of my bases.

[dpatbrown]

219. You nailed it:

"Americans are too stupid". For example, many people, mainly the red states( the South) don't know any better and refuse to learn for themselves, continue to vote for the GOP, even though the GOP pledges to prevent them from getting low cost health insurance and also to cut the assistance that helps them. I've seen this too many times in the past. You and I both know that many low income folks would benefit the most from electing Sanders, but have no idea, except from what they see on T.V. Ads paid for by the rich to defame any left leaning candidates from being elected. Sad.

[brooklynite]

220. So you're saying any candidate with the "right" positions will automatically win?

That the American voters don't apply simplified tests of age, appearance, religion, self-applied political terms to their decision-making processes?

A lot of losing candidates are going to be surprised.

[brooklynite]

221. I was a Ward Committeeman in my youth; 100% of my voters were Ivy League students...

...and they would have voted for anyone I told them to. The sad reality is the average American, intelligent or not; educated or not; upper class or not, doesn't care about politics enough to stay engaged on candidates and issues.

[PowerToThePeople]

222. Because fascism. n/t

[Adrahil]

225. You don't have to be a media guru to figure this out.

A rumpled looking guy who looks like he never combs his hair, has a heavy Brooklyn accent, calls himself a socialist z(yes, a democratic socialist.... The public will not notice such subtlety) and he has very little charisma.

It's not fair, and it's not right. But it is reality. And this is one case where i would be very, VERY happy to be proven wrong, but the stakes if I'm right are too damn high.

Maybe he'll change my mind int he primaries. I'll be watching and listening.

[Thinkingabout]

226. Bernie isn't a serious candidate, it has been stated he will not take contributions from the 1% or

corporations, the 99% does not have the money to make a serious campaign. The election will not be won by using social media, look many folks do not have access to social media so how are you going to get a message to them? Showing up on talk shows is not going to get the message out to enough people to even state a stand on the issues.

[PowerToThePeople]

229. "the 99% does not have the money to make a serious campaign"

You just made the case for the Revolution the Sanders is a part of.

[Thinkingabout]

233. Make your case by getting Bernie the funds to run. Unless those in favor of stopping CU

a revolution WILL NOT HAPPEN.

[PowerToThePeople]

234. Why does it have to happen per the rules of the current elite?

I have donated to his campaign and do so monthly.

I do not think the revolution will happen the way the current ruling class expects it to.

[Thinkingabout]

236. Bernie said he has had 200,000 people going to his web site to contribute.

In order to get the $2 billion to play in this game will require more than an average of $43 per contributor. You can complain all you want, say this should not be happening but if you don't have people elected who will go after CU and have a SC which will enact something similar there is not a way out of this. Look, this is reality, not a dream, I wish I could fly when I see graceful birds but it isn't going to happen.

The revolution, who do you have which is strong and will stay the course to have a revolution? MLK was a strong leader, tolerated lots of problems but he worked towards a goal. You can't run out in the streets for a few months and expect change, even with all the years of work MLK spent, it still was not accomplished. We have to be a ruling party and not a splintered party.

[TheFarseer]

228. because our corporate owned media says so

I hope people will ignore them and vote for who they think will fight for their interests.

[skepticscott]

231. Well, if you buy into the concept of "electability"

which I don't, btw, you can argue that candidates for president who tell people what they want to hear will always be favored in this country over candidates who tell people what they NEED to hear. Candidates who tell the unpleasant, unvarnished truth instead of making things all rainbows and unicorns make people uncomfortable, because the real truth, if they actually accept it, puts obligations on them that they can't dismiss but also can't address without major changes to their lives and their thinking. That is, like it or not, human nature, and it's not as simple as just saying that the voting public is "stupid" (though a good chunk of them may very well be).

[cantbeserious]

239. I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[aquart]

240. Because NOBODY achieves the presidency in a state of grace.

That's a quote from Jimmy Breslin, a columnist with an appropriately jaundiced eye.

Bernie IS in a state of grace. I shudder to think of the life and death compromises he would have to make as an American president. And I shudder at his having to deal with the zealousness of his followers, disillusioned that Obama didn't turn out to be the messiah, now eager to worship Bernie on that altar.

God help him.

[bvar22]

242. Bernie can't be elected because:

*He is not 6'4" and walk like John Wayne.

*He doesn't talk in monosyllables.

*He can't ride a horse.

*He isn't from a Western State like Colorado,


Aside from all that, I hope he WINS.

(Americans vote for the IMAGE,
not the person or his/her positions.)

[moondust]

243. Greed rulez!!!!!

USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!

Egalitarianism is so...Scandinavian.

USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!