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The most pro-gay president in history (Original Post) bluestateguy May 2012 OP
And yesterday people on DU were calling him a bigot. Shameful. nt gateley May 2012 #1
+1...nt SidDithers May 2012 #2
Shameful indeed--nt wendylaroux May 2012 #3
Oh yes, and he has a SECERT PLAN to CUT Social Security and Medicare! bluestateguy May 2012 #5
He wants to put them on double-secret probation. TheWraith May 2012 #13
Yep. nt ecstatic May 2012 #6
+1 redqueen May 2012 #7
I alerted on one of those comments and the jury voted to leave it alone. That was shameful too. n/t Tx4obama May 2012 #11
Link???? nt msanthrope May 2012 #42
Very shameful and very vulgar. nt Kahuna May 2012 #19
Thank you, Mr. President! nt MineralMan May 2012 #4
A President for all the people. Wait Wut May 2012 #8
...... BlancheSplanchnik May 2012 #9
+1 - no doubt! Politicub May 2012 #10
K & R Scurrilous May 2012 #12
K&R BumRushDaShow May 2012 #14
He finally gets it! William769 May 2012 #15
Does anyone seriously believe that President Obama was ever really against gay marriage? Cary May 2012 #16
I doubt it Prophet 451 May 2012 #17
I appreciate that. Cary May 2012 #20
Yes, I do. Ms. Toad May 2012 #21
I actually think his feelings DID evolve, thankfully. It happens, you know. nt gateley May 2012 #22
I am cautiously optimistic. n/t Ms. Toad May 2012 #32
Except his record here in Illinois suggests otherwise Cary May 2012 #28
It is because of the contrast that I supported him in 2008 Ms. Toad May 2012 #35
One more thing Ms Toad Cary May 2012 #30
Two things - Ms. Toad May 2012 #34
Good post. bigwillq May 2012 #41
Yes, I think those who were calling him a bigot sincerely believed he didn't support their rights. gateley May 2012 #23
I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt too. Cary May 2012 #31
I never believed it Renew Deal May 2012 #27
Why wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt? Cary May 2012 #29
Indeed! I hope to now see an end to the vulgar name calling of OUR PRESIDENT, this very Kahuna May 2012 #18
I always kind of thought he was secretly pro-marriage equality Barely May 2012 #24
despite his being a pawn 4 t 4 May 2012 #26
Thankfully, our President shows more respect for politicasista May 2012 #25
But you're assuming that everyone who posts here is "a fellow democrat". I'll wager that is far.... Tarheel_Dem May 2012 #33
Ok. politicasista May 2012 #38
Well The Philosopher May 2012 #36
Please watch Rachel's piece on this topic tonight stopwastingmymoney May 2012 #37
Kick...nt SidDithers May 2012 #39
BTTT Scurrilous May 2012 #40

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
11. I alerted on one of those comments and the jury voted to leave it alone. That was shameful too. n/t
Wed May 9, 2012, 03:50 PM
May 2012

William769

(55,145 posts)
15. He finally gets it!
Wed May 9, 2012, 03:56 PM
May 2012

Good for him!

I'm sure the pressure put on him by many had absolutely nothing to do with his decision making.

I just thank my lucky stars not all blindly followed him or we would not be having this discussion.

Once again, good for you President Obama.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
16. Does anyone seriously believe that President Obama was ever really against gay marriage?
Wed May 9, 2012, 04:02 PM
May 2012

Given the insane and utterly inexplicable "conservative" opposition, can you really blame the man for trying to be strategic and trying to time things like this for maximum effect? It's a lot easier to criticize than it is to actually stare down the "conservative" pukes.

I understand that reality. I don't pretend to understand why it is the reality, mind you. But hey the "conservatives" have done more to destroy this country over the past 30 years, and yet they remain a potent political force?

???

I mean there are gay Republicans and I simply can't wrap my mind around that one, so ...

I am very happy that President Obama has come out.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
17. I doubt it
Wed May 9, 2012, 04:22 PM
May 2012

I think he was trying to finesse something that A) didn't need to be finessed and B) conservatives were going to attack him for anyway.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
20. I appreciate that.
Wed May 9, 2012, 04:40 PM
May 2012

Honestly I don't pretend to know if he "needed" to be strategic and I would love to think that he didn't need to be. Did Lincoln need to be strategic about the Emancipation Proclamation? I would be more ready to answer that one as a yes.

Hindsight is 20 - 20.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
21. Yes, I do.
Wed May 9, 2012, 05:38 PM
May 2012

I listened very carefully to him during the 2008 primaries, and his position was not merely strategic posturing. It was clear to anyone who has had such profound discomfort directed at them personally that he was a profoundly uncomfortable with same gender marriage. This was the case, even though intellectually he knew he should support it. It was also clear he was not at that time personally inclined to struggle with those feelings. The words he used were very similar to the words used by John Edwards, but the two men were in very different emotional places - John Edwards was actively struggling with his discomfort. (As we all know now, he had other problems, but on this issue their political position was identical, and I supported the man who was willing to wade into the personal emotional struggle.)

But, the heebie-jeebies that emanated from him on this issue (sorry for the "technical" term) is the main reason I did not support him until there was virtually no choice left. And, nothing until today has given me any reason to suspect he had changed.

So this change is a complete surprise to me. I strongly suspected that his predicted evolution after the election would be in the opposite direction - after all there was virtually no forward evolution (and some backward evolution) until the re-election was in sight and he needed our support (and the support of younger Americans who overwhelmingly see the injustice in continuing to ban same gender marriage).

The part about this change that makes me hopeful that it is real change, not just strategic posturing to obtain the support of LGBT individuals and the youth, is his frank explanation of how his children (and their friends' parents) influenced this change in thinking.

But posturing or not, if you act as if you believe sometime long enough, you often come to believe it for real. So this is a welcome change, whatever the motivation.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
28. Except his record here in Illinois suggests otherwise
Wed May 9, 2012, 06:15 PM
May 2012

And too I know some Illinois State Senators who know him very well. He has a well earned reputation for being thoughtful and contemplative.

I am not suggesting here that I think this particular strategy, if it was a strategy, was correct. Personally I see no good reason for a Democrat to not just come out and be four square in favor of gay marriage, but then I'm not a politician and never every aspire to be one. And too I am of the opinion that there is no appealing to or negotiating with "conservatives" by which I mean the radical right, so insofar as he may have been working that angle I am inclined to disagree with him. On the other hand, in the longer run, I am not so sure that trying to show some "reasonableness" will not pay some dividends.

I doubt he's posturing to gain support. As you said, there is really nowhere else to go. However I will say that I am a little troubled by the idea that gays and lesbians can be used as a political football.

But still compare him to "conservatives". At least President Obama has come out with the correct conclusion, albeit a few years too late. "Conservatives" by contrast are not expanding civil rights, but rather they're busy trying to roll back everyone to the 1950s.

How's that for a contrast?

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
35. It is because of the contrast that I supported him in 2008
Wed May 9, 2012, 07:14 PM
May 2012

and will again this year.

My support is less enthusiastic than it might be for a number of reasons. If I ultimately decide this is not just posturing, that will boost my enthusiasm. As noted - this change is a surprise to me, not in timing (it is consistent with the political nature of the timing of other recent LGBT initiatives) but in magnitude. I am skeptical about its motivation, but open to the possibility that it really does reflect a core change in his outlook.

That said, any boost in my enthusiasm will still be tempered by the parts of his presidency I was surprised and disappointed by - the continuation of far too many of Bush's policies regarding the domestic and foreign "war" on terrorism.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
30. One more thing Ms Toad
Wed May 9, 2012, 06:28 PM
May 2012

I believe whole-heartedly in same sex marriage but I have in the past voiced some disagreement with some of the reasoning to support it. Because I disagree with some of the reasoning I have been accused, for some reason, of not supporting same sex marriage. And then too I was castigated by some simply for asking some questions in order to try to understand what I see as the crux of the issue (which I fervently support), being IMHO total acceptance in society.

For that I was accused, and being me I know what is really in my heart and in my mind. I know for a fact that I was wrongly accused, and it hurt. I admit that it hurt. It was intended to hurt, and it did hurt.

I respectfully suggest that one should be careful when trying to judge what is really in someone else's heart and mind if for no other reason than it is what one ought to do. And a minority group that has suffered because they were wrongfully judged, well, I would hope that gays and lesbians would understand that more than most.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
34. Two things -
Wed May 9, 2012, 07:06 PM
May 2012

First, he actually said he opposed same sex marriage. Equal rights, but not marriage (and as a very competent attorney, he knows the wide gap between marriage and something else "equal&quot .

Second, when you are the repeated target of "I'm for equal rights, but" conversations, you develop a very good sense of when there is emotional baggage that is the source of the "but." In addition to just living it 24/7, I spent 8+ years in a very intense period of wrestling with my faith community, culminating in my community marrying my spouse and I. Listening and sorting the emotional and other baggage on this issue is something I do frequently, and well.

During the 2008 primaries I spent a lot of time watching, listening, and reading everything that was available from each of the presidential candidates. Both Edwards and Obama struggled on a gut level with the issue. Edwards openly acknowledged it. Obama intellectualized it as a very convincing cover (convincing enough that many LGBT individuals believed he really supported marriage (and other rights), but just couldn't say so politically in advance of the election). From my perspective, nothing Obama did during his first portion of his term with respect to LGBT issues has shocked me - it is all extremely consistent with my sense of him from the primary period. I was disappointed, and each new jab or delay hurt like hell. But none were surprised me (and I know there were several times I had that specific discussion with DUers who were shocked at new slights). That confirms, for me at least, my ability to assess where where he really is on the matter.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
23. Yes, I think those who were calling him a bigot sincerely believed he didn't support their rights.
Wed May 9, 2012, 05:51 PM
May 2012

Cary

(11,746 posts)
31. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt too.
Wed May 9, 2012, 06:29 PM
May 2012

And I wish they would reconsider their harsh words and thoughts.

Renew Deal

(81,855 posts)
27. I never believed it
Wed May 9, 2012, 06:01 PM
May 2012

And some people here got annoyed at me for believing that (which I can understand).

Cary

(11,746 posts)
29. Why wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt?
Wed May 9, 2012, 06:19 PM
May 2012

Where's the upside in not giving him the benefit of the doubt? I want to believe his heart is in the right place. Don't you? And since we can never really know for sure why not opt for the positive?

But I do hear you, FWIW.

Kahuna

(27,311 posts)
18. Indeed! I hope to now see an end to the vulgar name calling of OUR PRESIDENT, this very
Wed May 9, 2012, 04:29 PM
May 2012

fine man going forward.

Barely

(4 posts)
24. I always kind of thought he was secretly pro-marriage equality
Wed May 9, 2012, 05:54 PM
May 2012

I figured he was just hiding it with the "civil unions" stuff to pander to independents.

I'm glad he finally came out. It's about time we had a President support the gay folks.

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
25. Thankfully, our President shows more respect for
Wed May 9, 2012, 05:56 PM
May 2012

Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 06:50 PM - Edit history (1)

his fellow Democrats (aka alies) than most here do and/or ever will. Just sayin.


Proud to have an intelligent, classy president. Kudos to him and everyone that is making this day happen. #justbeinghonest

Tarheel_Dem

(31,233 posts)
33. But you're assuming that everyone who posts here is "a fellow democrat". I'll wager that is far....
Wed May 9, 2012, 07:06 PM
May 2012

from true. I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the instant outrage we see generated here and at other progressive sites is merely instigation. The Repukes have promised to turn the president's strengths against him.

We saw the beginnings of that with Karl Rove's "celebrity" commercial. Because the president was widely admired in '08, they hope to trivialize that popularity & turn it against him. We saw another example over the weekend when Drudge posted that pic of a half empty stadium, even though people were still arriving. That's an attempt to turn the president's '08 ability to attract huge crowds against him. And finally, there's never been a candidate in history who used technology to such an advantage prior to Pres. Obama, the internet being chief among them. So sites like this are under constant surveillance, by the other side, and are being used to attack the president relentlessly. That's not by accident.

politicasista

(14,128 posts)
38. Ok.
Wed May 9, 2012, 11:18 PM
May 2012

It was shade to the OP, who praises Obama, but bashes good Dems when they do good in helping our president.

That said, do agree with you though.

The Philosopher

(895 posts)
36. Well
Wed May 9, 2012, 07:51 PM
May 2012

Considering it happened when his Vice President announced it first, and then there was confusion about the President's official position, and then he qualified his position today (one negates the other when you think about it); and considering this is just happening now because we all have to worry about who gets elected or what bill gets sponsored (as in, political tactics), and considering, considering, considering....

The sincerity has to be doubted. If one publicly supports a thing based on tactics, it's not supported because of its rightness. And it can always be supported the other way.

I'm sure many organizations and groups will use this moment, to promote our rights. But, when you get right down to it, it's just a slap in the face. And if you think I'm talking about the most powerful straight man in the world declaring we should be able to be married...

Whatever.

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