I just unsubscribed from all OFA emails

[corkhead]

President Obama just sent out his pitch this morning for us to fall into line on TPP. They did not give me the opportunity to tell them why I was unsubscribing.

I only wish he had fought this hard for single payer.

[Renew Deal]

1. TPA might pass. Single payer would not have.

Last edited Tue May 12, 2015, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

But that's another story.

[cali]

2. Tapas? Yum. Pass the tapas.

[Renew Deal]

9. Damned auto-correct!

[cali]

11. Lol I know. I hate auto correct.

but yours was a great one!

[Eleanors38]

83. A computer hot shot just disabled mine! Yeah! My airs are better!

[corkhead]

3. It wasn't "on the table" No effort was made to bring pressure to bear by going to the people

like he is now with TPP

[Renew Deal]

10. There was a lot of pressure for a "public option" and they couldn't get that done

How were they going to get single payer?

[Ford_Prefect]

22. They were never committed to a Public Option. It was only a bargaining point to them.

The whole process was assumed to be negotiable from the start. Just as we saw with so many other attempts at "co-operation", it was assumed that a progressive outcome would by definition be impossible, so no serious attempt was made to achieve one. Brokering a "deal" was more important than the outcome or its effect on those of us who have to live with it.

They are soul-less Neo-liberals only committed to making sure they stay at the top of the heap they believe is modern economics. Social Darwinism has a home in Third Way philosophy.

[erronis]

31. That was the beginning of disenchantment with "Change"

Max Baucus was the epitome of someone who didn't want health care reform to succeed. I can't remember exactly what/when happened but he retired soon after, probably after having padded his nest egg from...

Obama missed a lot of opportunities to at least stand up the reasons for this (Public Option) to be passed, he wimped out - probably to save his force for other priorities...

I wonder if Obama in retrospect would have wanted to do anything differently. And then I wonder if everything is really going according to plan.

[Eleanors38]

84. That opportunity depended on a public stand for single-payer, one which would rally...

Public support. How could he get public support when virtually to the last minute no one knew what was being negotiated behind closed doors? I don't think he was ever looking for a popular movement, or if it were to occur, it would be celebrity-oriented: His good looks, a favorite team winning, Kardashian's butt, or like WOW! and stuff.

[Renew Deal]

39. You say they only want to stay on the top of the heap

But you forgot the price they paid in 2010.

[Chathamization]

42. That seems to have been mostly the result of screwing up the recovery

Passing a stimulus that was too small, then moving towards austerity and telling everyone in 2010 that the economy was roaring back (though my guess is the first one was what really mattered in the mid-term elections).

[tazkcmo]

46. And they walked

For me it was all those things and the biggy being no consequences for the greedy @#&@! and the companies they run and work for that caused the melt down and who continue to this very day to steal even more money.

[Renew Deal]

118. That is not at all the case

The teabaggers weren't worked up about "too small" a stimulus. It was about the ACA and the fact there was a Democratic president.

[Chathamization]

119. He was never going to win the teabagger vote. For the average person, the weak economy was

a major mark against incumbents, and a larger stimulus would have made things much better. Fumbling the stimulus at the beginning was a massive mistake.

[George II]

52. And 2014, and 2014.

[betterdemsonly]

116. This assumes people are talking about the Democratic party when they use the word "they?" n/t

[secondwind]

55. there was a small window in which to pass the ACA... we can at least amend and tweak it, and

eventually morph into single payer.

[secondwind]

57. there was a small window in which to pass the ACA... we can at least amend and tweak it, and

eventually morph into single payer.

[tennstar]

40. Lots of pressure?

Hmm never saw Obama even mention it. Did he do anything at all? no!
But TPP he is under pressure to stop the It, and he is arm twisting. Name calling,traveling all over, in support. I wonder when he is going to join the republicon party.

[Renew Deal]

41. Now you've seen it

Go to 2:10

?t=2m10s

[tennstar]

43. Lol

Must have been first and last time 😝

[Renew Deal]

44. You're welcome

[raindaddy]

21. Obama found the effort to hold secret meetings with big pharma....

Securing their obscene profits at the expense of seniors.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. We were outraged when Cheney met the energy companies in closed-door sessions

but it was all right for Obama to meet in closed-door sessions with Big Pharma and Big Insurance?

AND...he kowtowed to the small Blue Dog Caucus and strong-armed the much larger Progressive Caucus into giving up the public option.

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt till that point, but from that point, I knew that he was Just Another Corporatist, despite his vague impersonation of a populist on the campaign trail.

I voted for him both times, but ONLY because his opponents were so awful.

I recall an episode of the old Britcom "Yes, Prime Minister," in which the Prime Minister wants to make a diplomatic protest over the arrest of a British subject in a Middle Eastern country, and his aide tells him that he has to clear the wording of the protest with the embassy of that country so that they don't get offended.

At the time, I thought it was satire.

[raindaddy]

48. Turning point for me too Lydia..

After promising, "the most transparent administration in U.S. history."

The Cheney "energy meetings" were probably the prequel to attacking Iraq. You can bet that for the most part whenever they meet secretly it's the public that getting screwed.

We also called Nixon a used car salesman for the same kind of cynical, dishonest con jobs.

[okaawhatever]

23. Obama never said he'd support single payer. That has been fact checked. He said he liked the idea

but that it wasn't feasable with the system we have in place. He had not said he supported single payer since a small gathering in 2003.Why are you mad he didn't do something he said he wouldn't do?

[sabrina 1]

63. No, it's actually the same story. A PO would have passed if the effort that is going into

this disaster had been put into something that would have so benefited the American people.

In fact the fight for the PO would have been much easier, since Dems were in the majority at the time, and if the President had worked as hard to 'twist arms' as he is doing now.

I remember btw, when we suggested that twisting arms was a worthwhile endeavor for something so important and being told that 'he can't do that, do you want him to look like a bully'? Well, yes, if millions of lives could be saved.

Now those same people are not having much of a problem with the bullying we are seeing for something that will not benefit the American people.

[rhett o rick]

94. If you are trying to make a pont, I think you failed. nm

[Renew Deal]

103. Which part do you dispute?

That TPA might pass or that single payer had no chance?

[rhett o rick]

105. Let me guess your point. Pres Obama didn't fight for single payer because it wouldn't pass.

That's a pretty sad rationalization. Looks like an excuse.

I think he didn't fight for single payer because he was never committed to it. I think that makes more sense.

[Renew Deal]

106. I think both are true

There are many factors. I'm pretty sure he would have done it if he thought he could.

[99Forever]

4. So you've become aware of what neoliberal actually think of you.

Welcome to a more realistic view of the world.

[NCTraveler]

5. He fought his ass off for the ACA.

If his goal and efforts were about single payer, 17 million fewer people would have health insurance today. This argument about wishing he fought for single payer like he is for the TPP is some serious bullshit. This is where people fighting against something bad, look like fools because they just want to attack a person. This comparing apples to oranges because of the limited ability to debate honestly is crap. Yeah, it would have gone swimmingly if he fought every day for single payer. Wait. No it wouldn't have. We would have 17 million fewer people with health insurance and a President trying to sell a pipe dream to this day. The manner the TPP is being brought about is bullshit. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the ACA or single payer.

[eloydude]

6. Not hard enough

Public option.

Fuck Lieberman and his ilk

[NCTraveler]

7. Fuck Lieberman and his ilk

True that.

[MFrohike]

86. No he didn't

Ron Suskind blew that myth away 4 years ago. Obama made a couple of speeches, convened one conference, and then wandered off. It was left to Pelosi and Reid to salvage what they could of "his" initiative. With the vacuum he left, Max Baucus slid in and we ended up with guaranteed profits for insurance companies.

[rhett o rick]

95. I think it's better to fight the good fight and lose than to roll over and let the assholes

kick the crap out of you. Some here seem to fight for the idea that if you set your sights really low then you might not be disappointed. I am glad our founders didn't think like that.

[CoffeeCat]

8. Yes, and I remember when Obama addressed Progressives...

…during his speech about the healthcare bill. We were told that "We weren't going to get everything that we wanted" and basically that was that.

The reality is--The insurance companies wrote the bill. They knew healthcare reform was coming and they figured--Ok, American assholes, you want reform? Ok, we'll give you reform. On our terms.

I really don't blame Obama. He did what he could within our corporate-controlled government. He laid the groundwork for further reform and Obamacare has helped millions. However, it is not enough and those psychopathic health-insurance companies are still at the epicenter of our healthcare system--deciding who lives and who dies and who receives care and who is denied--based on the profit motive. We will never truly have healthcare reform until those heartless, greed mongering wolves are out of the healthcare system.

[Damansarajaya]

15. Sorry, I have to disagree.

He didn't go to the mat for a public option. He's going to the mat for the TPP, and it's very effective. He knows how to get things done if he wants to get them done.

A public option in the final analysis just wasn't that important to him.

[okaawhatever]

27. He didn't go to the mat for the public option because studies showed only 2 million people

would take advantage of public option. Once they had the framework for the ACA Kaiser did some studies showing who would take advantage of which feature. It turned out that more would qualify for Medicaid and the under 26 yo option and fewer would use the public option than previously believed. Ultimately the public option was killed by the Senate, it passed in the house, but the fight was proportionate to the people it would help.

The public option was designed to reduce costs by $100 billion over 10 yrs Instead the designed the state exchanges which was supposed to solve the same problems and received a $155 billion cut from the hospital association to make up for the lost savings in the public option.

[TheKentuckian]

85. Only because it was being built to be a fraud, just a dumping ground for the cartel to nudge

undesirables into.

There was no honest intent to have a real public option, it was just being designed to be an offering in the anti ramping exchanges which they also want as few people in as possible.

By the time marks that were actually going to be considered for the actual bill hit the floor it had turned into "a sliver" and a ghetto for the ill.

[erronis]

34. Also, single payer was in a first term and he needed to think about his second

And his "legacy".

Too bad the shine is tarnishing because of the TPP. Maybe it will be manna from heaven for the USofA but I'm guessing not.

[okaawhatever]

87. Obama never campaigned on single payer. he said he liked single payer but with the system we

have now single payer wouldn't work. He hadn't mentioned single payer as an option since a small meeting in 2003.

[Damansarajaya]

90. Single payer is not the same as a public option, which he endorsed.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/518/create-public-option-health-plan-new-national-heal/

Promise broken.

"The exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and meet the same standards for quality and efficiency."

*****

In the 2008 Obama-Biden health care plan on the campaign’s website, candidate Obama promised that "any American will have the opportunity to enroll in [a] new public plan." [2008]

– During a speech at the American Medical Association, President Obama told thousands of doctors that one of the plans included in the new health insurance exchanges "needs to be a public option that will give people a broader range of choices and inject competition into the health care market." [6/15/09]

– While speaking to the nation during his weekly address, the President said that "any plan" he signs "must include...a public option." [7/17/09]

– During a conference call with progressive bloggers, the President said he continues "to believe that a robust public option would be the best way to go." [7/20/09]

– Obama told NBC’s David Gregory that a public option "should be a part of this [health care bill]," while rebuking claims that the plan was "dead." [9/20/09]

[Damansarajaya]

12. I unsubscribed when he signed ObamaCare without

a public option as he repeatedly promised he would NOT do.

It was clear to me then that he wasn't interested in bottom-up governing. He wanted to sit at the cool kids' table, not the hoi-polloi who elected him.

[geek tragedy]

14. Or it's clear that he preferred effective governing than chasing purity ponies

Which is why many here can't stand him.

[Damansarajaya]

17. I can "stand him" just fine. I think he's the best

president we've had since FDR.

But then we've had a lot of truly terrible presidents since FDR, like Nixon and Reagan and the worst president of all time, GW Bush.

Carter and Clinton were at best, sixes on a ten-point scale.

What I criticize Obama most for is how he ran on a "people's power" platform and then told the people who elected him to shut up and sit down.

That can be seen most clearly in how OFA was handled. Millions of people on the mailing list and the only thing we were asked to do was send money.

[geek tragedy]

20. The reason GLBT rights have made so much progress is because the GLBT activists

gave him holy hell.

Also, dedicated activists certainly played a role in the Keystone debate, as well as torpedoing Larry Summers as Fed Chair.

So, it's not that the WH has a history of just ignoring activists who make it uncomfortable.

Rather, they can count votes, which is the ultimate arbiter for legislation.

A strong, viable public option was never going to make it through a House where Blue Dogs provided the margin of majority and where passing the Senate required unanimous agreement amongst:

Joe LIEberman
Blanche Lincoln
Mark Pryor
Max Baucus
Tom Carper
Kent Conrad
Tim Johnson
Mary Landrieu
Evan Bayh
"DINO Ben" Nelson
Bill Nelson
Claire McKaskill
Jon Tester
Mark Warner
Kay Hagan

[okaawhatever]

28. The public option did get approved in the house, just not the Senate When it went to reconciliation

Scott Brown had won the Senate seat from Kennedy and congress had the option of adopting the senate bill as is or revoting on anything and losing completely. The only way it would get through the Senate is to use the bill passed when Kenneedy was alive. It took everything they had to get exactly the number of votes required.

[geek tragedy]

49. I'll never forget, or forgive, Lieberman threatening to filibuster the ACA

unless they stripped out the Medicare expansion he himself had recommended earlier.

[okaawhatever]

53. Yeah, there was a lot of pressure in the end to kil it. Many congresspeople started taking the

bill hostage, Lieberman was just the worst. The Dem senator from Nebraska demanded $100 million for medicaid expansion.

[geek tragedy]

58. It amazes me that some people are dumb enough to think that LIEberman, DINO Ben,

Blanche Lincoln, Landrieu, Max Baucus, etc would UNANIMOUSLY support a strong public option or single payer if Obama had just given more speeches.

What planet do they live on?

[Damansarajaya]

92. The planet where he tries, like he tries to fast-track TPP?

The planet where he contacts three million people on OFA and says get out in the street and don't come back in until we have a public option.

I want to live on that planet with that president.

[geek tragedy]

93. He did that for the ACA itself.

He can't go all-in on every sub-issue.

Public option was small potatoes compared to stimulus, ACA. Obama supported the public option, but certainly didn't see it as the most important part of the ACA.

The Green Lantern theory of politics is the single biggest fallacy under which people at DU labor.

[Damansarajaya]

102. No mandates. Under my plan there would be no mandates.

Okay . . . there are mandates.

[geek tragedy]

104. His no mandates campaign rhetoric was irresponsible demagoguing.

His policy was a big upgrade from the campaign sloganeering.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/opinion/30krugman.html

Mandates and Mudslinging

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: November 30, 2007

(snip) The central question is whether there should be a health insurance “mandate” — a requirement that everyone sign up for health insurance, even if they don’t think they need it. The Edwards and Clinton plans have mandates; the Obama plan has one for children, but not for adults.

Why have a mandate? The whole point of a universal health insurance system is that everyone pays in, even if they’re currently healthy, and in return everyone has insurance coverage if and when they need it.

And it’s not just a matter of principle. As a practical matter, letting people opt out if they don’t feel like buying insurance would make insurance substantially more expensive for everyone else.

Here’s why: under the Obama plan, as it now stands, healthy people could choose not to buy insurance — then sign up for it if they developed health problems later. Insurance companies couldn’t turn them away, because Mr. Obama’s plan, like those of his rivals, requires that insurers offer the same policy to everyone.

As a result, people who did the right thing and bought insurance when they were healthy would end up subsidizing those who didn’t sign up for insurance until or unless they needed medical care.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/opinion/07krugman.html

The Mandate Muddle

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: December 7, 2007

Imagine this: It’s the summer of 2009, and President Barack Obama is about to unveil his plan for universal health care. But his health policy experts have done the math, and they’ve concluded that the plan really needs to include a requirement that everyone have health insurance — a so-called mandate.

Without a mandate, they find, the plan will fall far short of universal coverage. Worse yet, without a mandate health insurance will be much more expensive than it should be for those who do choose to buy it.

But Mr. Obama knows that if he tries to include a mandate in the plan, he’ll face a barrage of misleading attacks from conservatives who oppose universal health care in any form. And he’ll have trouble responding — because he made the very same misleading attacks on Hillary Clinton and John Edwards during the race for the Democratic nomination.

(snip)

But lately Mr. Obama has been stressing his differences with his rivals by attacking their plans from the right — which means that he has been giving credence to false talking points that will be used against any Democratic health care plan a couple of years from now.




...


Finally, Mr. Obama is storing up trouble for health reformers by suggesting that there is something nasty about plans that “force every American to buy health care.”

Look, the point of a mandate isn’t to dictate how people should live their lives — it’s to prevent some people from gaming the system. Under the Obama plan, healthy people could choose not to buy insurance, then sign up for it if they developed health problems later. This would lead to higher premiums for everyone else. It would reward the irresponsible, while punishing those who did the right thing and bought insurance while they were healthy.

Here’s an analogy. Suppose someone proposed making the Medicare payroll tax optional: you could choose not to pay the tax during your working years if you didn’t think you’d actually need Medicare when you got older — except that you could change your mind and opt back in if you started to develop health problems.

Can we all agree that this would fatally undermine Medicare’s finances? Yet Mr. Obama is proposing basically the same rules for his allegedly universal health care plan.

Clinton was to Obama's left on the mandate question in 2008.

[Damansarajaya]

109. Thanks for agreeing with my point--he can't be trusted on what he says.

That's why I unsubscribed from OFA like the poster in the OP years ago.

[geek tragedy]

110. He is a politician. nt

[betterdemsonly]

117. If Blanch was so awful why did he go to bat for her against Halter

Why did he call ofa in to save her primary campaign? I don't get it.

[Damansarajaya]

88. Looks like they didn't count the votes very well on fast tracking TPP.

It's one thing to try and fail. It's another thing to not even try.

On many, many issues that Candidate Obama pushed, President Obama didn't even try. And instead of mobilizing the masses who campaigned and voted for him (like myself), we weren't even invited to the discussions.

[geek tragedy]

91. Mitch McConnell was a lot more upset than Obama seemed to be.

It's an interesting game being played. Republicans, Congressional Democrats, and the White House all distrust one another.

[SidDithers]

18. Nailed it...

"preferred effective governing than chasing purity ponies"



Sid

[think]

64. The rest of the modern world has universal healthcare. So please spare me the pony show

Seriously....

[geek tragedy]

65. they also don't have our Congress. and they didn't have to transition from an entirely

Last edited Tue May 12, 2015, 12:58 PM - Edit history (1)

different system overnight.

[Mojorabbit]

81. I am so sick of this arguement.

No one in this thread is going for purity and it is dishonest to say so.

[truebrit71]

13. Right?

Must be more of that ninth-level ninja-chess master shit we keep hearing about...

[JaneyVee]

16. Show me the path to single payer.

[JoePhilly]

101. They can't ... it never existed ... but the whining about it will never end.

[CharlotteVale]

19. I unsubscribed a long time ago. But suddenly I ended up getting

emails from them again recently, so I unsubscribed again.

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. I unsubscribed when emails began sound more and more like collection notices.

The speaking down to the masses is not for me.

[Chathamization]

45. Or spam: "Obama wants to have dinner with you! Will you join him?"

They don't seem to understand that spamming my inbox with stuff like that doesn't make it more likely that I'll read their e-mail.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. My dad still receives them, and the sheer amount of "Share Your Story" emails was outrageous.

[Buzz Clik]

26. -1

meh

[corkhead]

32. your kick / substantive response is duly noted

Thank you.

[Buzz Clik]

35. Why should I care about your emails? What's next -- coupon collecting? Stories of annoying neighbors

[corkhead]

37. I raise your smilies by one

[fredamae]

29. So did I just recently

Support shipping my kids jobs overseas? Support this so they can earn Less? Screw that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. I don't often use strong language, but the idea that a public option wouldn't have passed is

a stinking pile of bullshit.

I hated Reagan, but he knew how to rally people for what he wanted. I remember him going on TV and telling people to lobby their Congresscritters for this bill or that bill.

Obama had the most dedicated young energetic campaign volunteers I've ever seen. He could have asked them to follow through on their enthusiasm by campaigning for a public option. He could have gone on TV and said, "I propose creating a public option for health insurance by lowering the age of eligibility for Medicare by five years every year until the entire population is covered. I hope to serve two terms, and by the time I leave the Oval Office, everyone over the age of 20 will have access to Medicare, and parents will be able to add their minor children for a small additional charge. This will not only make health insurance affordable for all Americans and potentially save employers the expense of providing health insurance for their employees but will also save Medicare. Yes, it will save Medicare because younger, healthier people will be participating. Private insurance companies will still be able to sell Medicare supplements, as they do now, but they will no longer hold Americans hostage to high premiums and high deductibles."

Instead of appealing to the public, Obama closeted himself with Big Pharma and Big Insurance to figure out what regulations they would be willing to accept just as Cheney met with Big Oil and Big Coal in closed-door sessions. We hated it when Cheney did it. Why was it all right for Obama?

The answer--he was a corporatist all along.

[corkhead]

36. Funny, he is doing the Reagan thing for TPP but didn't even try for single payer or public option

[geek tragedy]

51. He did that work for the ACA as a whole. The public option is not as important

as the rest of the ACA.

Purists sometimes forget that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. The public option would only have provided some much-needed competition for Big Insurance

You know that Britain allows private insurance and lets doctors go into private practice, right?

Well, prices for private medical care and private insurance are much lower than in the U.S. because the private sector types know that their customers can always go to the NHS if things get too pricey.

[geek tragedy]

71. I know how the public option was supposed to work.

But, you still haven't shown anyone where the votes for a fully-funded federal public option would have come from.

Instead you've simply invoked both the Reagan and the LBJ Green Lantern theories of politics.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. By twisting the arms of the Blue Dogs

I'm sure some or all of them had a military base or some other pet project that they wanted to keep going.

[geek tragedy]

74. You're still depending on the fallacy that Congress is not a co-equal branch

of government, but rather a subservient class of Presidential minions.

LBJ did twist arms, but he also cut deals. Moreover,

LBJ, congressional superhero. (CBS via Getty Images)

What about him? "The LBJ story misses the fact that he had huge majorities in congress at the time he was passing most of his legislation," says Nyhan. "He was benefitting politically from Kennedy's assassination. And the public was unusually supportive of government involvement at that time. If we attribute all those successes to arm twisting then LBJ looks all powerful."

The other problem is that the Washington of the 1960s bears little resemblance to the Washington of 2014. As you can see on this graph of party polarization in Congress, the 1960s were a low ebb:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

75. So here's the deal: "Vote for a public option, and you get to keep your air force base."

Obama "dealt" only with Big Pharma and Big Insurance.

[geek tragedy]

78. You are still subscribing to the view that Congress is the door mat of the president,

and that the only reason the president doesn't get his way is because he wasn't aggressive enough in making threats and enforcing discipline.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

79. But he successfully persuaded the Progressive Caucus

even though many of them wanted single payer or at least a public option.

No, geek, you can say anything you want, but it still stinks to high heaven that he held closed-door sessions with Big Pharma and Big Insurance and refused even to meet with advocates of single payer.

If it was wrong for Cheney to hold closed-door sessions, then it was wrong for Obama.

[geek tragedy]

80. Closed-door meetings is how politics gets done.

It's an ugly business.

Big Pharma and Big Insurance torpedoed Clinton's efforts to reform the health care industry in 1993-1994 and almost destroyed his presidency.

[Art_from_Ark]

99. Well, what else would you expect

from someone who labeled himself a "moderate '80s Republican"?

[erronis]

38. Great post. Hate to put Reagan above Obama in any matchup but you've done it.

[geek tragedy]

50. No, what is a 'stinking pile of bullshit' is the fantasy where all that matters is the president

clapping loud enough in order to get Tinkerbell to grant any policy wish he wants.

Also a stinking pile of bullshit is the idiotic notion that Senators like Joe Lieberman will do whatever Obama wants because he gives a fucking speech.

Campaign volunteers don't have votes in the Senate.

Maybe you should read the constitution.

Or at least watch this video:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

69. Funny thing--it worked for Reagan's tax cuts when he had a Democratic Congress

and you're telling me that Obama has nothing to say to his own party?

LBJ would be ROFL.

[geek tragedy]

70. More magical thinking.

1) Reagan didn't get as big of a tax cut as he wanted. He had to scale it back, even with Republicans controlling the Senate, and the House Democratic majority depending on people like Phil Gramm (who was a Democrat back then, believe it or not).

2) The Reagan tax cut was his first big piece of legislation--it's been the general rule that each President gets one big piece of legislation to start off their term in office. That was not the case with the ACA.

3) Tax cuts are ALWAYS popular and ALWAYS simple. Reinventing the health care system was never going to be either.

4) You're still not providing any logical argument as to how Obama is to blame for Congress's failings, other than your absurd claim that the president gets whatever he wants as long as he wants it bad enough.

You are peddling the "Green Lantern" theory of the presidency.

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/20/5732208/the-green-lantern-theory-of-the-presidency-explained

What is the Green Lantern Theory of the Presidency?

According to Brendan Nyhan, the Dartmouth political scientist who coined the term, the Green Lantern Theory of the Presidency is "the belief that the president can achieve any political or policy objective if only he tries hard enough or uses the right tactics." In other words, the American president is functionally all-powerful, and whenever he can't get something done, it's because he's not trying hard enough, or not trying smart enough.

Nyhan further separates it into two variants: "the Reagan version of the Green Lantern Theory and the LBJ version of the Green Lantern Theory." The Reagan version, he says, holds that "if you only communicate well enough the public will rally to your side." The LBJ version says that "if the president only tried harder to win over congress they would vote through his legislative agenda." In both cases, Nyhan argues, "we've been sold a false bill of goods."

Your argument is not only gibberish, it's also a cliché.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. My claim is not magical thinking

My claims are that he

1) Consulted in closed-door sessions with Big Pharma and Big Insurance about what would be acceptable to them rather than telling them which laws they would have to adhere to

2) Did not present a broad outline of the plan to the public so that
a) People on the left thought he was working on single payer
b) The right-wing media played on this assumption of single payer and worked overtime to look for horror stories from British and Canadian tabloids
c) It was difficult to find even an executive summary of the proposal on line. I had to search through several layers of websites.

3) Somehow thought that the Blue Dogs should rule instead of the more numerous Progressive Caucus. He found the time and energy to twist the arms of the Progressive Caucus (saying "We'll fix it later&quot but when the Blue Dogs balked, he just caved.

4) He tried to appease the Republicans, even though it should have been obvious that they weren't going to give him anything

[geek tragedy]

76. Your claims are outright inaccurate and false.

1) The President does not tell people to which laws they would have to adhere. People and companies have to adhere to all of the laws that Congress passes, as does the President.

2) The broad outline of the plan was presented, unfortunately it's so complex that our famously low information voters never understood it. Many still don't understand Medicare.

a) Nobody on the left thought he was working on single payer.
b) people on the right threw as much bullshit against the wall as possible, they never had an intelligent critique, just fear-mongering

3) Votes are votes. You need 218 of them in the House and 60 of them in the Senate. Liberals unfortunately frequently are at a disadvantage because we care about the real life consequences of legislation, whereas Blue Dogs and Wingnuts often do not.

4) The plan wound up passing on party-line votes in both Houses of Congress. The terms that were watered down or removed were done so due to Senate DINOs like Lieberman and Ben Nelson.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

107. Reading comprehension

1) I said that the corporations were telling Obama which laws they were willing to obey, just as when Cheney met with the oil and coal companies. It is also true that Obama willingly met with the vultures in Big Pharma and Big Insurance while refusing to meet the single payer advocates publicly or privately. Closed door sessions with industry representatives stink of corruption and should be forbidden, period. If a politician doesn't want the public to know what's going on, that's very suspicious.

2a) The broad outline of the plan was not presented until late in the deal. If it was so obvious from the beginning, why did I have to dig to find an executive summary?

b) Nobody on the left? Just everyone I talked to in Minneapolis. The most common remark was "We need a system like they have in Canada. I'm glad Obama is working on that."

3) Leftists were VERY concerned about the real-life consequences, especially after they found out how many people would be too poor to afford the premiums, yet too "rich" for subsidies, and that the evil known as high-deductibles would still be allowed, along with age-based pricing for premiums. (When I turn 65, I will save $250 a month, and that's WITH the most expensive, no-deductible Medicare supplement available in my area.)

4) Just how hard did Obama work to persuade Lieberman and Nelson to allow the public option? As hard as he worked to persuade the Progressive Caucus to drop it? Or did the Lieberman and Nelson provide "cover" to carry out his secret agreement with Big Insurance and Big Pharma?

[geek tragedy]

108. Sanders: single payer never had a chance

"It would have had 8 or 10 votes and that's it," he said, addressing a topic central in the minds of many who the bloggers and left wing talk show hosts gathered for the 4th annual Senate Democratic Progressive Media Summit in Washington reach everyday.

Sanders is among the few in the Senate not afraid to say he supports government-run, universal health care. But his calls for such a program have gone unanswered, much to the chagrin of progressives who still feel it is the best way to solve the nation's health care crisis.
Sanders said it was still possible for single-payer to come to the U.S. eventually -- but he said the road will not begin in Washington. If a state like California or Vermont ever instituted a single-payer system on its own, Sanders said, it would eventually lead to national adoption of universal coverage.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance

The fact that you insist on blaming Senators' behavior on Obama shows you have no interest in a rational discussion, and merely want to bellyache about Obama because you find that more psychologically satisfying.

Last word is yours. Done wasting my time, as there is no cure for ODS.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

112. You've changed the subject. I'm talking about a public option

I wonder if Obama even TRIED to persuade Lieberman and Nelson to accept it or whether he made a deal with the insurance companies to accept the Heritage Foundation/Mitt Romney plan and the Blue Dogs provided convenient cover. I've seen that tactic before: use someone else as an excuse for something that you aren't going to do anyway.

Suppose Obama had gone on TV to Lieberman and Nelson's constituents and said, "Your Senator is all that is standing between you and the option of taking Medicare at age 60 in 2010, at age 55 in 2011, at age 50 in 2012, and so on until everyone in the nation has a choice between private insurance and Medicare. If you would like this option, phone the Senator's office today."

Did he even try that? Reagan would have. Reagan did.

[geek tragedy]

113. You imagine Nebraska to be a hotbed of progressivism?

Lieberman wasn't up for re-election and took a perverse delight in fucking with progressives.

He endorsed McCain in 2008. He did not care what his constituents thought.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

114. Nebraska has a lot of old people on Medicare

Their slightly younger relatives might have liked the idea.

[Nite Owl]

67. You are so

right. No fight for what we wanted and needed.Why? he didn't really want it. Probably made a deal with Pharma and the insurance companies.

[jeff47]

77. So Sanders was lying when he said it wouldn't have passed? (nt)

[ibegurpard]

89. We'll never know

He cut a deal to take it off the table.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html?pagewanted=2

[Skittles]

98. of course it is

but what else can they say?

[L0oniX]

115. "The answer--he was a corporatist all along."

So no wonder they are trying to install another corporatist.

[libdem4life]

33. Single Payer would be equivalent to breaking up of the too-big-to-fail insurance

companies, who shuffle paper for outrageous income. They are at least as egregious as the financial ones. TPP sets up the financial groups, also insurance groups, for more profit. Pretty easy to understand why one and not the other.

Flame away, but I still say it has to go with not only his Legacy, but his ex-President opportunities. Few actual people, genderless corporations aside, will want to fund his retirement. It's in the big speech fees and sponsorships, etc.

[geek tragedy]

54. You know the President doesn't pass legislation, right?

Apparently not, since you fling out nonsense about Obama being a greedy sociopath instead of addressing Congress.

Refresher for you:

[libdem4life]

59. I ignore condescension and snark and "words in mouth" snap judgments. Save it for

someone who cares.

[geek tragedy]

61. You're the one explicitly arguing that Obama lets his own personal greed

drive his policies that affect millions of Americans.

I choose not to let personal hatred of the President--which is pretty obviously informing your criticisms--drive my analysis.

To suggest that the reason Obama didn't break up the health insurance companies is because he's a greedhead who wants a comfy retirement, or that he's willing to destroy the American working class for similar motives, is deranged fantasy, not intelligent commentary.

Not that you care, you have your novel and you're going to write it as you want, the truth be damned.

[Cha]

97. Your ignorant post says everything about you and nothing about President Obama.

[bigwillq]

47. I did that years ago.

But I often unsub and then sub again on all these mailings from different groups, depending on my mood!

[JEB]

66. If the public option had passed

I'd gladly give it up to dump the TPP in the toilet when it belongs.

[PowerToThePeople]

82. me too.

Been thinking about it for some time. Today was the day. Thanks. I trashed my Obama bumper sticker some time ago.

Hope and change, my ass.

[woo me with science]

96. We all wake up to the truth at our own pace.

What a con job on America. But the silver lining is that we won't fall for a corporate bait-and-switch again.

[NaturalHigh]

100. It's the "fall in line" thing that really pisses me off.

We're supposed to fall in line behind something we don't want when he won't fight for something important to us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. The only reason I am thinking of resubing

is all the crap I get from multiple parties. But on second thought... Nope ain't gonna do it. Too much crap as is.