Senator Boxer on the secrecy of the trade deal“The guard says, ‘you can’t take notes.’

[Ichingcarpenter]

“They said, well, it’s very transparent. Go down and look at it,” said Boxer on the floor of the Senate. “Let me tell you what you have to do to read this agreement. Follow this: you can only take a few of your staffers who happen to have a security clearance — because, God knows why, this is secure, this is classified. It has nothing to do with defense. It has nothing to do with going after ISIS.”

Boxer, who has served in the House and Senate for 33 years, then described the restrictions under which members of Congress can look at the current TPP text.

“The guard says, ‘you can’t take notes.’ I said, ‘I can’t take notes?’” Boxer recalled. “‘Well, you can take notes, but have to give them back to me, and I’ll put them in a file.’ So I said: ‘Wait a minute. I’m going to take notes and then you’re going to take my notes away from me and then you’re going to have them in a file, and you can read my notes? Not on your life.’”


“Instead of standing in a corner, trying to figure out a way to bring a trade bill to the floor that doesn’t do anything for the middle class — that is held so secretively that you need to go down there and hand over your electronics and give up your right to take notes and bring them back to your office — they ought to come over here and figure out how to help the middle class,” Boxer said.


https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/12/can-read-notes-life-top-democratic-senator-blasts-obamas-tpp-secrecy/

[ladjf]

1. The TPP = "The Pig in the Poke" agreement. nt

[Sherman A1]

2. Precisely

I like that "The Pig in the Poke" it would be funny, if this was not so blasted serious of an issue.

[House of Roberts]

4. Or

'We have to pass it to find out what's in it.'

[cui bono]

33. I can't decide which is more stupid, that lame talking point or

"you can't criticize it because it doesn't exist yet."

[ybbor]

41. Agreed

That is also one of my favorites brought up by many here on DU.

[Maedhros]

53. No - I found an argument stupider than both of those!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6663337

Oh - wait! This one is even stupider:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6659326

[cui bono]

61. I'll see your two stupids...

and I'll raise you one idiotic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6649703

[billhicks76]

40. Obama Pathetic

Corporate stooge.

[cali]

3. Anyone who says that the TPP secrecy is bullshit, is either ignorant or

purposely prevaricating.

It is. No other proposed trade agreement has been classified for national security reasons. Other trade agreements have been far less secretive- as the NYT noted:

<snip>
The office of the United States Trade Representative has said that “negotiators need to communicate with each other with a high degree of candor, creativity and mutual trust. To create the conditions necessary to successfully reach agreements in complex trade and investment negotiations, governments routinely keep their proposals and communications with each other confidential.”

But previous trade agreements were shared more openly and despite the secrecy efforts, portions of the document have been leaking out, through WikiLeaks and other organizations.
<snip>


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/business/unpacking-the-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal.html?_r=0

[wolfie001]

18. I believe the pro-TPPers here on DU are rich inheritors of wealth.

They don't work in the real world. They sit around and figure out where their few donated dollars can "do the most good"....lol....like screwing over people who actually work for a living. Just pure speculation but no True-Blue-Dem could/can ever support this putrid piece of pro-business stank!

[cali]

23. I don't. I think the problem is that they are so emotionally invested in the President

that they can't see the proverbially forest for the trees. And there's certainly a lot of evidence for that in numerous posts.

[wolfie001]

24. Yes, correct as usual Cali!

[A Simple Game]

28. And no doubt that many are the same ones that ridiculed Republicans for

their blind loyalty to Bush.

[awoke_in_2003]

32. +1000

They are the same people who would raise a stink about a wedding party being bombed, but tell us it is just collateral damage now. Cult of personality.

[cui bono]

34. That is absolutely what is going on.

And I think I know the reason for it but if I say it I'll get flamed or hidden. But it seems pretty clear to me.

[LiberalArkie]

49. As I said before and got taken to the woodshed

They are wanting to make points so they can get the million dollar speaking and book fees that Wall Street pays for. It will even take care the children like Chelsea getting $75,000 to speak. They have to see us out so they can get their Platinum parachutes.

[FlatBaroque]

5. It's double top secret because

it does what corrupt politicians cannot do legislatively due to the public outcry that would result. Obama has sealed his legacy.

[JDPriestly]

45. And his legacy, and not only because of the TPP, is looking more and more like the betrayal

of the middle class. I'm very sad to have to face that fact.

I forgave the fact that he did not bail out homeowners, that he did not prosecute crooked bankers (except those with no political clout), that he appointed fat-cats to high positions instead of representatives of the people like Robert Reich, that he suggested chained CPI, that he appointed a cat-food commission, that he is permitting oil drilling in the Arctic and other places that endanger the environment. He redeemed himself somewhat by not yet signing off on the XL pipeline and by fighting for net neutrality. But when it comes to these crucial economic issues, Obama is not on our side.

This trade agreement even with some absolutely unenforceable, under no agreement or system enforceable clause on currency valuation, will ruin the American middle class and working people even more than we have already been ruined.

And President Obama continues to insist that it could be a good thin.

Nonsense. If it is a good thing, let us see it.

If it is completed to the point that Congress members can with a handful of aides read it but not take out notes on it, then it is finished enough that the citizens can read it.

What kind of government do we have that such an important "treaty" which is more than merely an international agreement but which affects the enforceability of our domestic, democratically determined laws is a state secret?

We are way beyond representative government. Obama is not even pretending that we the people have any say in our government when he tries to push this agreement which would deeply and decidedly impact our personal lives and the economic health of our society on us without nary and apology and without allowing us to read it.

The hubris. The sheer arrogance of it is disgusting.

[emsimon33]

50. Well said

TPP seals Obama legacy as the president of the .001%, Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, vulture corporations, and others who would make slaves of those who actually work for a living!

I can't say that he has disappointed me as I knew his record before he was elected but held my nose and hoped for the best.

While I do not regret walking over 300 miles to get the guy elected (as I lost a ton of weight!), I regret that we were unable to get true Democrats elected as opposed to these neo-liberal, faux Democrats.

[Buns_of_Fire]

6. "National security" -- the most powerful two words in Washington.

"This trade deal is not like the others -- no sir, it fixes all the problems in all previous trade agreements ever entered into, almost guarantees full employment, will raise wages in all countries by at least ten percent, and will end the heartbreak of psoriasis once and for all."

"How does it do all that?"

"Sorry, can't tell you. It's classified. National security, you know. Just trust us. We're professionals and we know more than you do."

Which is a fine argument, I suppose. Until it dawns on you that it was also 'professionals' who designed and built the Titanic.

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. I consider this trade 'deal' one of the most important issue of our time

Talk about GHW Bush's 'new world order' its right out of his playbook, its the corporate takeover and control of this planet.

Its one of the biggest sociological, political and environmental play for power ever by the banks and international corporations

[snappyturtle]

9. +1

Its one of the biggest sociological, political and environmental play for power ever by the banks and international corporations


Exactly!

[Buns_of_Fire]

19. It may well be -- and sure as hell not in a GOOD way.

But the President's been bitten by the "legacy" bug, and I don't think there's any cure. This particular POS legislation may mutate, but I fear it'll keep coming back in one form or another until it passes.

[Duppers]

38. +100

[Ford_Prefect]

10. According to several whistle blowers you can hardly call them professional.

After all they are only contract employees and one must ask who bid the current contract? Or the next one?

[Hoppy]

11. It will also provide a chicken in every pot and a new Tesla in every garage.

[bigwillq]

8. Jeez, what a mess.

Fight this, DEMS. Fight this with all you have. JUST SAY NO to TPP.

[Hoppy]

12. John Birch Society had their "Ducksmanship" test.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

Well, if TPP looks like a turd,.....

(Koch brothers' father was a founder of the Birch Society.)

[Omaha Steve]

13. Thanks for posting

K&R!

[zentrum]

14. Then why didn't she….

…vote against it like Reid and Schummer did instead of abstaining?

Step up Barbara!!

[NuttyFluffers]

15. kick for exposure!

love my senator Boxer.

[Octafish]

16. LOL! ''Figure out how to help the middle class.''

As if. Like they helped the poor. Nothing.

Thank you for the heads-up, Ichingcarpenter. Something stinks about secret government and it's starting to get obvious.

[Enthusiast]

26. Yes. It is becoming extremely stinky.

[Eleanors38]

36. I think Sen. Boxer is thinking: Legacy. Does she really want to be known for...

sniffing the hindquarters of corporate capitalism-in-rut.

[libdem4life]

42. What a response...great linguistic/visual form !!

[polichick]

17. k&r

[Dont call me Shirley]

20. Please keep calling your Senators, Representatives and Whitehouse to oppose this disaster.

Every call you make to your Reps, Sens and WH is worth 4,000 constituents voices, so call now.

Whitehouse Comments: 202-456-1111

United States Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121

[wolfie001]

21. The "Most Transparent Presidency Evah"!!!!!!

Gawds, we're just soooo naïve.......boo hoo. Has bullshit ever been so openly displayed? Except outside on a field?

[Geronimoe]

22. They had no difficulty figuring out how to help the Oligarchs

Tarp one & two bailouts, no prosecutions for breaking financial laws, no interest on loans, federal subsidies to ship factories overseas, legal tax havens, and historical low income tax rates.

[Enthusiast]

25. K&R! As many of us have pointed out, this issue is a measure of our democracy.

Do we have a democracy, or not.

Why won't the media talk about this? Why is it so secretive? A fair and unbiased media is essential to a democracy.

This TPP and everything surrounding it is so much bullshit.

[Overseas]

27. K&R.

[nyabingi]

29. The rich and their corporations are so confident in themselves

at this point in time that they are literally telling our elected officials what they can and can't do.

Hillary's silence on this issue speaks volumes and I wish Obama would have fought this hard for inclusion of a public option in the ACA. Obama appears desperate at this point, feverishly trying to fulfill the wishes of the constituency he ultimately views as being the most important to support.

[Eleanors38]

37. There you have it. Maybe these guys think MSM will distract us by posting more pics of....

Kim Kardashian's butt. They don't seem to realize that the media's credibility is little better than a stiff-legged feral hog lying by a Texas roadside, blow flies buzzing like a saw mill.

[underpants]

30. Sounds familiar. Boxer should be suspended for 4 games

[daleanime]

31. K&R....

[frylock]

35. like the other thread, there's a surprising dearth of pro-TPP posters with their opinion..

kicking for exposure.

[Duppers]

39. What will Pres. Obama say about Sen. Boxer now?

Let the smearing begin.

[emsimon33]

51. That Obama resorts to name-calling and smearing when he doesn't get his way says a lot

about his true character.

We saw who he really was and what moral compass he possesses when he had his surrogate, Rahm Emmanuel, call liberal Democrats retards (an offensive word choice in any context).

Goldman Sacks did not get him elected; 1000s of unpaid volunteers who traveled across this nation at their own expense going house to house, manning phones, talking to neighbors for months got the guy elected (as did Howard Dean's 50-state strategy). Then he unzipped his fly and relieved himself on us.

Barbara Boxer has a national following as does Elizabeth Warren. If Obama tries to smear and marginalize Barbara Boxer as he did Elizabeth Warren, he will merely look petulant and petty: A little spoiled brat who whines and name-calls when he doesn't get his own way.

I am so proud that all but one "Democrat" in the Senate gave Obama the one-finger salute that he deserves for his behavior and his selling out of the American people and our representative democracy.

[Duppers]

52. If only he could've unleashed on the rethugs

Last edited Wed May 13, 2015, 08:47 PM - Edit history (2)

...in such a way. However, it could be because he thought it was safe to have unleashed on the lawmarkers telling the truth, the very lawmarkers having the best interests of Americans in mind and not the interests of corporations.

Yes, indeedy the Pres. would appear petulant and petty if he unleashed on Sen. Barbara Boxer, especially now since all but one Sen said no to fast tracking TPP. This vote underlines how out of touch he has been.

I've tried to give Pres. Obama the benefit of doubt until TPP came up two yrs ago--no excuse that can be made for his support.

[emsimon33]

59. Well said

[BrotherIvan]

43. When will Barack apologize to Elizabeth?

He said she was lying and could see the draft any time she wanted. And all of this ruckus was so she could get campaign contributions.

[friendly_iconoclast]

44. Kicking and recommending

[hifiguy]

46. The fans and defenders of TPP seem to be

notably absent on this thread.

I guess Sen. Boxer's truth is a little too much for them to paper over and ignore.

[SwankyXomb]

48. Like good little Republican infiltrators

They're waiting for talking points. Can't get paid if you don't parrot them correctly.

[Duppers]

56. the defenders and those blindly supporting

Pres. Obama.

[Babel_17]

47. Makes you wonder if some people forgot that Congress isn't supposed to be a rubber stamp

The executive prerogative for negotiating treaties doesn't preclude Congress from voting in accord with their duty as they see it.

[WinkyDink]

54. Hey---He's doing his job of protecting the 1%!

[Fantastic Anarchist]

55. There is a reactionary revolution ...

And I hate to use the terms together, but one is going on before our eyes. The last vestige of social cohesion will wither, ironically, right before us.

What we have here is no less than the international revolution of capitalism, borne from the ideas of Trotsky's international socialism. The capitalists, in their reactionary fervor, adapted, and revolutionized the world and organization from the top down. They ensured that the international proletariat would factionalize, and to cue the coup de grace, made it possible for international capitalists to find common cause. Capital can cross national boundaries, while labor remains isolated. There is solidarity, not of labor, but of the wealthy class. And so, top-down authoritarianism has won, and won, ironically, by a man who is pejoratively called a socialist.

It's actually quite brilliant ... If you're part of the owning class.

[gregcrawford]

57. I've been screaming bloody murder...

... about this fucking thing for more than two years. I'm glad the people who are supposed to know about this shit have finally started paying attention. let's just hope it's not too late.

[rbnyc]

62. No shit!

I could have said that myself.

[AzDar]

58. K & R

[whereisjustice]

60. Since banking deregulation, NAFTA and Iraq proved how easy it is to fuck over the middle class

Obama figures he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain on his speaking tours which, thanks to Bill and Hillary, should be worth about $500,000 a shot. And we know the man can give some damn fine speeches.

[nikto]

63. What's actually happening ...

[yuiyoshida]

64. LET ME MAKE SURE I SPELL this correctly

THIS IS Ridiculous!!!

[Major Hogwash]

65. Click bait.

[Depaysement]

66. "Democracy?"

A United States Senator, elected from the most populous state in the Union, is prohibited from taking notes on a bill she will have to vote on. Corporate democracy at work.