From "Two for the price of one" to how dare you bring Bill Clinton into any discussion

[cali]

of Hillary's policies, how dare you link her to his administration (unless it's to laud her for attempting health care reform) to her campaign and policy positions.

You can't have it every which way because that's convenient, and shriek about how it's sexist to discuss her in relation to his policies or him in relation to her campaign and potential Presidency. It's pretend, play acting.

She was very involved in his administration and frequently referred to as his top adviser. Now we have to pretend that that never happened. I won't play that game.

Discussing her politics, her evolution on policies, whether that evolution is sincere or is being done for political advantage in a campaign, is valid. Pretending Bill isn't part of the equation is ignoring reality and the big ol' elephant perched precariously on the Louis XVI sofa.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Does anyone believe that the First Gentleman will don an apron, stay home, and bake cookies?

Did Hillary do that while First Lady?

[sufrommich]

2. I don't think any first ladies have done that in decades,if ever. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Nor, do I think Bill will be only the "First Gentleman" in a similar capacity.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Is that what you believe a woman's role is?

You forgot their raison d 'etre; making babies.


SARCASM

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Is that what Hillary's role was? Or, did she involve herself in his duties?

Do you think Bill won't involve himself in her duties? Hillary won't ask for his advice? Consult with him on political options?

Or, will he be consigned the First Gentleman's role of standing by her side and shaking hands and serving cocktails?

I think that the idea that Hillary wasn't involved in Bill's presidency is willful naivete. I also think, that the idea that Bill isn't going to be involved in her (possible) presidency is equally willfully naive.

[trueblue2007]

35. MR CLINTON SHOULD NOT HAVE TO STAY HOME AND BAKE COOKIES.

What is with the negative Clinton notes???

No First lady has stayed home to bake cookies for 150 years. If you know of one, please pose the documentation (facts please). Thank you

[tritsofme]

3. I believe this is a minority opinion among Clinton supporters.

Most of us very proud of what Bill was able to accomplish in the 90s while becoming the first Democratic president since FDR to win reelection. Hillary was certainly very involved in the administration, it is one the many things that has prepared her to be president.

After being on the national political scene for nearly 30 years, it is natural that positions would evolve over time, as they have for so many of us as well. I think the Clinton brand is a source of great strength for Hillary, and it would be foolish to see Bill and his administration as anything but a source of pride.

[cali]

4. fair enough- more than fair enough.

I disagree with you on certain key policies that arose from the Clinton administration but I do think there were things that were good as well.

I don't know that it's a minority position among Clinton supporters, but minority or not, it's a very vocal contingent.

[MoonRiver]

13. " but minority or not, it's a very vocal contingent."

You got that right!

In general, I remember the Clinton years favorably. He eliminated the usual Rethuglican deficits and created a vibrant economy, which, of course, the next Bushite destroyed. I definitely did not approve of welfare reform. And his abject stupidity falling into the Lewinsky trap was inexcusable. I highly approved of what he did in Bosnia. In my book, stopping genocide is always a good thing.

[Oilwellian]

34. Except he also funded right wing death squads in Colombia

Neo liberals hate left wing union organizers in Third World countries. Read up on what Hillary did in Honduras while SOS.

[rickford66]

5. I think the "Two for the price of one" originally was about Mr & Mrs Bob Dole

If I am wrong or offended anyone, I would apologize.

[DavidDvorkin]

6. Nope. It was Bill Clinton, in 1992.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bill-and-hillarys-double-trouble-clintons-two-for-the-price-of-one-pledge-is-returning-to-haunt-him-says-rupert-cornwell-1427937.html

[rickford66]

10. Nope. It was the Doles

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/31/us/doles-share-top-billing-in-california-fund-event.html

"For the Doles, it was their first major joint campaign appearance since Mrs. Dole quit her job as Secretary of Transportation last month to work full time in her husband's campaign. Mrs. Dole, who is from North Carolina, plans to campaign separately, mostly in the South, for her husband. 'Two for the Price of One' "

[DavidDvorkin]

12. Well, I'll be ding-donged!

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. Bullshit. Context is everything...

Someone said it about the Doles. Bill Clinton said it himself, about him and Hillary.

Understand the distinction?

[rickford66]

32. Did you read my original post?

".I think the "Two for the price of one" originally was about Mr & Mrs Bob Dole" I never mentioned or implied the Doles said it. I was referring to the phrase. I remember it being said ABOUT the Doles.

[BreakfastClub]

8. Then pretending Hillary has no WH experience is ridiculous. Either

she had eight years of co-presiding and was wildly popular (not to mention very successful), or she didn't. The big argument in '08 was that she had "no experience." They said she served tea to dignitaries, etc. So insulting. She and Bill have always been a team. HOWEVER, Bill Clinton made the ultimate decisions during his presidency, and Hillary Clinton would make the ultimate decisions should she be president. Of course, she was his top advisor, and he would be hers. That goes without saying.

[YoungDemCA]

11. +1. Welcome to DU

nt

[TheKentuckian]

14. Seems that proponents want to have it both ways, if there is blame it is an orphan but want credit.

They also fail to point out where the policy positions dovetail as has Clinton.

It is not in any way unreasonable based on decades of observation that there are any significant gap in worldview and policy except she is more the hawk and places a higher priority on women's health issues that I can tell.

[cali]

23. absolutely- I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "co-presidency" but

even back in 2007 and 2008 I argued that of course her time in the WH counted as valuable experience.

His presidency is popular, no doubt about it.

[Exultant Democracy]

9. If you support HRC you might be a democrat

But your a terrible citizen of a democracy when you think handing the keys to the kingdom to the same family is a good idea. DemOcrats with a capital O for oligarchy.

[NuclearDem]

16. Funny how that logic never seems to apply to the Kennedy family.

[Exultant Democracy]

21. A couple of assassins seem to disagree

That family can't get a full term in the White House let alone serve 2 and come in for another serving for the same duo. Most republicans agree with you as to why it is ok to keep electing Bushes... One side of the debate is right and one is wrong. Majority of republicans and democrats all agree with you, so if the wisdoms of large numbers is correct you can sleep well.

[R B Garr]

15. Nice stunt.

[zeemike]

19. What I find strange is that after the last 2 or 3 decades of failure

For the majority of American people we are being encouraged to give the same people responsible for that failure another term at the helm...as if this time it will be different.

The only thing I can figure is that those who want that are the ones who have profited from it, and there is no doubt at all that the 1% have profited from it, but the rest of us not at all.

And it is not that they are our only choice.

[pnwmom]

20. He had a successful administration, bringing us out of the dumps that a Bush had put us in.

People can mention Bill Clinton as much as they want . . . as long as they don't blame Hillary for his sex life.

[Orsino]

22. Hell, her active role in the previous Clinton Administrations...

...is a big part of what I consider to be her qualifications.

If I caught her attempting to run from her record, I would point and laugh.

[cali]

24. then that's what you should be doing, because on several issues

running from her record is precisely what she's done- or pretending that record doesn't exist

Marriage equality
immigration
Wall Street- from criticizing liberals fro criticizing Wall Street to "We need to topple the 1%"
Silent on Keystone
Obfuscating on the TPP

[Orsino]

33. I think these things indicate typical flip-flopping/evolution, rather than running from her record.

They still are worth pointing and laughing.

[seabeyond]

25. as an accomplished woman that is accredit with her own experience, i hope clinton stands firm.

this is hers... not bills.

i admire, respect and hope this is her position.

[Evergreen Emerald]

26. oh brother

more propaganda for a Saturday.

[Buzz Clik]

30. Seriously!

From the philosophy of "never stop yelling, and people might start listening."

Is her point actually a thing?

[treestar]

27. As long as it's not the Monica and other women stuff

It's fair enough that he will have some influence on the President. Maybe moreso from being President before. But it could be valuable advice and Bill was successful.

[Buzz Clik]

29. -1

I never cease to be amazed at how you can so quickly conjure outrage over things no one even knows about but you.

Please. Carry on.

[Cali_Democrat]

36. This exchange led to this OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6680361

Rather than continue the discussion in that thread, the OP was apparently so ticked off at what BainesBane said that she decided to create an OP and try to get other DUers to join in the outrage.

If the OP can get 20+ recs, she has won the argument and BainesBane has been vanquished.

But remember, it's all for Bernie!

Too funny.

[Buzz Clik]

37. Thanks. I was suspicious of this, but not interested enough to search it out.

[MoonRiver]

31. I'm glad she was involved during Bill's presidency.

Of course she is now running on her own merits, which are HUGE. But, personally, I hope Bill offers his advice and counsel to her, just as she did to him. They are both brilliant and dedicated Democrats. Two for the price of one is great!

[KittyWampus]

38. No, the issue is you trying to make some statement Hillary made while her HUSBAND was POTUS

relevant as if she were an elected official.

She has her own legislative record.

[Doctor_J]

39. The post right about yours - 31 - says her co-presidency in the 90" s IS important

It is from another Hillarian. You should get your story straight, which is the entire point of the op

[carolinayellowdog]

40. Regardless of what the thought police here want, it WILL be part of the discussion

nationally. Having noticed so many stalkers/trolls jumping into your threads and those of other progressives with attempted deflections criticizing "you" (whoever wrote the OP), I had the clever idea of putting the word "you" in my trash file. Alas, that throws out some babies along with a lot of bathwater-- had to undo it in order to reply to this thread because the OP included that word. But I think 3/4 of the times people bring the word "you" into a thread, it's content free snark derailing the discussion from the topic at hand. Or at least trying to-- but the number of recs you keep getting shows that few of us are distracted by the detractors!

[Thinkingabout]

41. Since women has been in the working place for over 70 years it would seem some of this

mommie has to stay home and bake cookies but it seems like it is still alive and well. I just wonder when more people will evolve on this idea of thinking a woman should stay in a "woman's place". If people can not evolve on the woman's issues then never expect them to evolve on other issues facing our world today.

Hillary is running for president on her own record, does all the spouse's records need to be talked about as much as Hillary and Bill, it can happen, don't work for something you don't want to happen.