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malaise

(268,846 posts)
Wed May 20, 2015, 10:50 AM May 2015

Breaking - 5 Banks to Pay Billions and Plead Guilty in Currency and Interest Rate Case

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/business/dealbook/5-big-banks-to-pay-billions-and-plead-guilty-in-currency-and-interest-rate-cases.html?_r=0
<snip>
Adding another entry to Wall Street’s growing rap sheet, five big banks have agreed to pay more than $5 billion and plead guilty to multiple crimes related to manipulating foreign currencies and interest rates, federal and state authorities announced on Wednesday.

The Justice Department forced four of the banks — Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, Barclays and the Royal Bank of Scotland — to plead guilty to antitrust violations in the foreign exchange market as part of a scheme that padded the banks’ profits and enriched the traders who carried out the plot. The traders were supposed to be competitors, but much like companies that rigged the price of vitamins and automotive parts, they colluded to manipulate the largest and yet least regulated market in the financial world, where some $5 trillion changes hands every day, prosecutors said.

Underscoring the collusive nature of their contact, which often occurred in online chat rooms, one group of traders called themselves “the cartel,” an invitation-only club where stakes were so high that a newcomer was warned, “Mess this up and sleep with one eye open.” To carry out the scheme, one trader would typically build a huge position in a currency and then unload it at a crucial moment, hoping to move prices. Traders at the other banks agreed to, as New York State’s financial regulator put it, “stay out of each other’s way.”
By Channon Hodge, Aaron Byrd and David Gillen 2:30

The banks also misled their clients about the price of currencies, the federal and state authorities said, imposing “hard mark-ups,” which one Barclays employee described as the “worst price I can put on this where the customers decision to trade with me or give me future business doesn’t change.” Or, to put their mission in the starkest of terms, the employee said: “If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.”

As part of the criminal deal with the Justice Department, a fifth bank, UBS, will plead guilty to manipulating the London Interbank Offered Rate, or Libor, a benchmark rate that underpins the cost of trillions of dollars in credit cards and other loans. Federal prosecutors had previously agreed not to prosecute the Swiss bank over the Libor scheme. But in a rare stand against corporate recidivism, the Justice Department voided that non-prosecution agreement after UBS was accused of taking part in the effort to manipulate currency prices.

The guilty pleas, which the banks are expected to enter in federal court later on Wednesday, represent a first in a financial industry that has been dogged by numerous scandals and investigations since the 2008 financial crisis. Until now, banks have either had their biggest banking units or small subsidiaries plead guilty.

--------------------------
That useless Obama Administration NOT

This is huge.
59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Breaking - 5 Banks to Pay Billions and Plead Guilty in Currency and Interest Rate Case (Original Post) malaise May 2015 OP
Yes it's good that Obama came down on them this time el_bryanto May 2015 #1
Agreed malaise May 2015 #2
If they were doing that, imagine what they also did and are still doing. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2015 #3
All well and good Faux pas May 2015 #4
+1 CharlotteVale May 2015 #13
SEC files civil cases, uses financial settlements as punishment. dixiegrrrrl May 2015 #20
Tht is one of the big problems with SEC enforcement. hifiguy May 2015 #22
Isn't it also a tax writeoff? BrotherIvan May 2015 #45
Probably. hifiguy May 2015 #57
Beyond all logical reason Faux pas May 2015 #59
Plead guilty to antitrust violations Sanity Claws May 2015 #5
Shitty Group and JP Morgan yes 1939 May 2015 #7
Doubt it but we can hope malaise May 2015 #10
K & R !!! WillyT May 2015 #6
Juicy, delicious crow is now being served in the lounge. Come and get it DU! tridim May 2015 #8
ROFL malaise May 2015 #9
No jail, no juice. johnnyreb May 2015 #15
$5 Billion each? Oh, no...$5B total...after they made how many billions illegally? Moostache May 2015 #17
Not to mention the tax breaks for paying these fines, another words for the lost mrdmk May 2015 #29
+1 nt F4lconF16 May 2015 #32
Dear Malaise- How many are going to jail? n2doc May 2015 #11
+1 CharlotteVale May 2015 #14
Wish I knew although I'd prefer them to malaise May 2015 #16
I would be fine with either n2doc May 2015 #18
Bring back the stocks and the pillory. hifiguy May 2015 #23
That will go down as the single best sign hifiguy May 2015 #37
If they cannot find this chump change in the sofa FlatBaroque May 2015 #12
If 5 billion is less than the profits they made it's not a fine, it's a business expense. n/t Shamash May 2015 #19
Bingo. K&R to your comment. nt TBF May 2015 #30
That's simply 1 Billion per bank. closeupready May 2015 #31
This. F4lconF16 May 2015 #33
+1000 nt Mojorabbit May 2015 #50
FAR less-- the scale of this particular fraud is almost unfathomable. Marr May 2015 #53
Cost of doing business, they made much more than the fine I am sure. Dustlawyer May 2015 #21
I'm just going to leave this here... Make of it what you will... Glassunion May 2015 #24
And therein lies the problem malaise May 2015 #25
For contrast... You know... To be fair. But for me, I prefer the company of others. Glassunion May 2015 #26
By a distance malaise May 2015 #27
As I asked in another thread about this... malthaussen May 2015 #28
Yes. From HuffPo: okaawhatever May 2015 #51
Well, that's interesting. malthaussen May 2015 #55
So this is going to stop the banks from cheating and stealing how?! Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #34
It is barely a speed bump. hifiguy May 2015 #36
And then they get the tax write off for their fine and voila not one cent of the fine paid Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #41
If you haven't read Nomi Prins' "It Takes A Pillage" yet hifiguy May 2015 #42
Heard her speak many times on DN and FSTV. She is a treasure, not stealing treasures like her Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #43
that little thing at the end is why everyone makes fun of BOGers as cultists MisterP May 2015 #35
who's going to jail onethatcares May 2015 #38
^^THIS. n/t PowerToThePeople May 2015 #40
We Need Perp Walks colsohlibgal May 2015 #39
Fines come out of shareholders' hide. moondust May 2015 #44
But how can we send a bank to jail? Oilwellian May 2015 #46
Their bosses should be in jail n/t malaise May 2015 #47
Anyone going to jail?..nt Jesus Malverde May 2015 #48
Cost of doing business - not "huge" hatrack May 2015 #49
When they pay fines for this type of crimes where does the money go? jwirr May 2015 #52
k&r.... spanone May 2015 #54
Incorrect. Not huge. Orsino May 2015 #56
Not particularly praiseworthy LondonReign2 May 2015 #58

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
1. Yes it's good that Obama came down on them this time
Wed May 20, 2015, 10:54 AM
May 2015

That said it does underscore the attitude of criminality that seems prevalent on Wall Street. The truth is that Wall Street and the related industries do play a pivotal role in our economy, and the failure to punish wrong doers and to set stricter regulations in the aftermath of the 2008-2009 issues has contributed to that. “if you aint cheating, you aint trying.

This is a good development but much more needs to be done.

Bryant

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
20. SEC files civil cases, uses financial settlements as punishment.
Wed May 20, 2015, 12:47 PM
May 2015

The banks have plead guilty to dozens of fraud charges over the past 10 years, they get fined what amounts to 1% of their lucre,
then continue finding ways to fraud.
They NEED to be charged under RICO, for actual criminal disposition.

But the WH has no will to do this.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
22. Tht is one of the big problems with SEC enforcement.
Wed May 20, 2015, 01:06 PM
May 2015

The banksters can just set aside money to cover if they get caught; for them it's just a cost of doing business. I am sure that the bg banks have dedicated departments whose only mission is to invent new kinds of fraud.

Unless individuals start doing serious hard time for this kind of shit it will just pop up again, like mushrooms after a rain storm.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
57. Probably.
Thu May 21, 2015, 01:44 PM
May 2015

They have gamed every part of the system so completely that they can never actually lose money on anything but their own pyramid/;everage schemes. See 2008. And then they go running to the Fed and the taxpayers to bail them out.

No BIG bank ever loses money. Ever.

Sanity Claws

(21,846 posts)
5. Plead guilty to antitrust violations
Wed May 20, 2015, 11:04 AM
May 2015

Interesting. I wonder whether that guilty plea is sufficient to start breaking up the fucking banks.

1939

(1,683 posts)
7. Shitty Group and JP Morgan yes
Wed May 20, 2015, 11:17 AM
May 2015

The other three are chartered in other countries. If we cut them off from business in the US, our banks would be restricted overseas in retaliation.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
8. Juicy, delicious crow is now being served in the lounge. Come and get it DU!
Wed May 20, 2015, 11:23 AM
May 2015

I wonder how many will admit they were wrong, again?

Thank you President Obama.

johnnyreb

(915 posts)
15. No jail, no juice.
Wed May 20, 2015, 12:34 PM
May 2015

Quoting a commenter in an earlier piece:

What we don't know is why this article is not in the top left column of today's NY Times under the heading "BANK CRIMINALS ESCAPE JAIL TIME AGAIN". Instead of working to uncover the truth buried by this corruption, the news media is helping to cover it up. Why?

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
17. $5 Billion each? Oh, no...$5B total...after they made how many billions illegally?
Wed May 20, 2015, 12:37 PM
May 2015

No offense, but slaps on the wrist are not blowing up my skirt.

The CEOs of each of these companies in chains and sentenced to life sentences; the shareholders taking a total bath in retracted profits for every year of the crimes is hardly fair (especially the mutual funds and pooled investment dollars); but the salaries and bonuses paid to all involved should be forfeit; and the loss of licenses and lifetime bans on every single person involved in the scam - from CEO to clerk filing the fraudulent paperwork would be real enforcement.

This is like telling someone that they will have to serve a year of house arrest after killing a dozen people.

The banks manipulated not just interest rates, to believe that is moving deck chairs on Titanic.
The fines, no matter how nominally large, do not hit where they should - the greasy scumbag bankers themselves.

I am glad that SOMETHING was done.
But I can't get too excited about this unless someone can tell me exactly how this slows down the corruption already rampant on Wall Street and in our campaign financing.

Kudos for doing the minimum Mr. President. You could have acted decisively to break up "too big to fail", you could have used that as a wedge to break the GOP financing machine, but I guess we just have to be happy with a fine of 1/5 of 1/4's profits instead...

mrdmk

(2,943 posts)
29. Not to mention the tax breaks for paying these fines, another words for the lost
Wed May 20, 2015, 01:42 PM
May 2015

It is a Break-Even proposition, nothing more, nothing less...

Break-even (or break even) is the point of balance between making either a profit or a loss. The term originates in finance, but the concept has been applied widely since.

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break-even

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
11. Dear Malaise- How many are going to jail?
Wed May 20, 2015, 12:30 PM
May 2015

That useless Obama administration- yes. Without jail this will do nothing to stop future crimes. The people who carried out these crimes have no penalty applied to themselves.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
18. I would be fine with either
Wed May 20, 2015, 12:41 PM
May 2015

Although I profess a desire for the public humiliation that a trial would bring.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
23. Bring back the stocks and the pillory.
Wed May 20, 2015, 01:08 PM
May 2015

There's a fortune to be made in selling rotten fruit and vegetables with which to pelt these evil greedhead fucks. THEN off to jail for a nice long vacation in the Big House.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
53. FAR less-- the scale of this particular fraud is almost unfathomable.
Thu May 21, 2015, 12:51 AM
May 2015

They were rigging the global economy, day by day, to benefit their investments at that moment.

Dustlawyer

(10,494 posts)
21. Cost of doing business, they made much more than the fine I am sure.
Wed May 20, 2015, 12:54 PM
May 2015

If you want to impress me, start prosecuting the individuals involved and this shit will stop. How many plea deals by banks have we seen in the last few years for huge financial crimes?
There are people above the law in the country, a class of people if you will. They include big bankers and current and/or former political operatives and politicians. Cheney, Bush, David Petraeus, Rumsfeld, Rice,...

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
24. I'm just going to leave this here... Make of it what you will...
Wed May 20, 2015, 01:16 PM
May 2015

From the Center for Responsive Politics - donations received (Hillary Clinton) - 1999 to 2015

malaise

(268,846 posts)
25. And therein lies the problem
Wed May 20, 2015, 01:24 PM
May 2015

The bankers were all hiding when Glass-Steagall was introduced in 1933. In those days men had shame. Now they own the media and buy the politicians. Remember she has loads of company.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
26. For contrast... You know... To be fair. But for me, I prefer the company of others.
Wed May 20, 2015, 01:31 PM
May 2015

Bernie Sanders, from 1989-2015


malthaussen

(17,183 posts)
28. As I asked in another thread about this...
Wed May 20, 2015, 01:40 PM
May 2015

... do they have to admit wrongdoing, or just pay the fines with the stipulation that they don't have to admit they did anything wrong? The latter has been the way of things for recent such decisions.

-- Mal

okaawhatever

(9,461 posts)
51. Yes. From HuffPo:
Thu May 21, 2015, 12:19 AM
May 2015
The age of multibillion-dollar bank fines with no admission of wrongdoing is over. The Justice Department announced Wednesday morning that five banks pleaded guilty to market manipulation, while also paying billions of dollars in fines.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/20/big-banks-guilty-fined_n_7342808.html?ir=Business
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
36. It is barely a speed bump.
Wed May 20, 2015, 04:38 PM
May 2015

Costs like this are factored in when they begin the fraud. Just part of doing business in the best Mafia style.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
41. And then they get the tax write off for their fine and voila not one cent of the fine paid
Wed May 20, 2015, 06:25 PM
May 2015


Triple grr: one for the their brazen crime, one for no jail time for the crooks, one for no penalty actually paid
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
42. If you haven't read Nomi Prins' "It Takes A Pillage" yet
Wed May 20, 2015, 06:34 PM
May 2015

hunt it down. Prins worked at a couple of investment banks, including Goldman, and her insider's dissection of the 2008 meltdown and the trillions - yes TRILLIONS - the banksters walked away with is enough to scare the hair off a gorilla.

Just started her All The Presidents' Bankers. She really knows her stuff.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
43. Heard her speak many times on DN and FSTV. She is a treasure, not stealing treasures like her
Wed May 20, 2015, 06:39 PM
May 2015

colleagues!

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
35. that little thing at the end is why everyone makes fun of BOGers as cultists
Wed May 20, 2015, 04:30 PM
May 2015

the article could've stood on its own--the WH is doing something praiseworthy and we can all argue over how praiseworthy

but you just HAD to toss in a slam at WH critics that in fact makes you look silly by denying that Obama could ever be friendly to Wall Street: it's almost like a compulsion; you debunk yourself and then take a victory lap

$6B isn't "huge" given what these banks go through every week

onethatcares

(16,165 posts)
38. who's going to jail
Wed May 20, 2015, 04:43 PM
May 2015

that's what I want to know. Which of the banksters are going to be on the news tonight with cuffs and orange jumpsuits?

which are going to Rikers Island or Attica.

When that happens I'll be a happy man.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
39. We Need Perp Walks
Wed May 20, 2015, 05:41 PM
May 2015

Millions, whatever, it's nothing to these people, it's chump change for them.

So many of them should be spending quality time with the Bubbas in the Big House. Then maybe they would quit screwing the 99%.

moondust

(19,966 posts)
44. Fines come out of shareholders' hide.
Wed May 20, 2015, 07:46 PM
May 2015

Drop in the bucket relative to quarterly profits.

Nobody goes to jail.

No real punishment means nothing likely to change.

I can hear champagne corks popping from my house.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
56. Incorrect. Not huge.
Thu May 21, 2015, 09:12 AM
May 2015

"Banks" please guilty? Spare me. Were any people charged? Will the executives who profited most even notice the fines?

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
58. Not particularly praiseworthy
Thu May 21, 2015, 03:05 PM
May 2015

No one is going to jail for this. Again. Instead, shareholders are left holding the bag while the banksters are free to do it again and again.

So, no, this is not huge, and the Obama administration really does not deserve props.

You wanna know exactly how NOT HUGE this is? The stock of one of the banks went up over 3% yesterday because the fine is smaller than expected.

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